280 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

I agree to some extent, but pigeon-holing almost the entire side-quest content to 'Fetch quest' status is inaccurate and misleading. If one finds side-quests as a whole unappealing, perhaps they should avoid such RPG's in the first place.

Now I skip some materials because I dislike it (eg; Jumping puzzles, Bottles quest), but also due to RP, as it fails to fit that character. I made the error of trying almost everything in Skyrim the first time, and that DB storyline resulted in a poor tale. In DAI, I still have yet to raise a dead grandpa, kill a possessed ram, raze an Elven graveyard, etc as both Inquisitors were more noble in character.

But having to skip main storylines, avoid NPC's, escape from cut-scenes, etc is annoying; had to do some of this myself in DAI. Yet that is exactly what I an informed to do with TW3 concerning objectionable content (including some of these same folks); choose to pass on the game instead. Taking my own advise, as it were....

 

I think that's a bad recommendation , particularly if they feel other Bioware games have delivered what they want, to a greater extent than DA:I. Not to say I don't dislike certain older Bioware side quests (BG1 is pretty terrible, as is ME1 imo), but there are others which are far superior.

 

I should point out that skipping a quest for RP reasons is completely different from skipping it due to the quest's inherent nature. Sure, in both cases you might skip the quest, but the underlying motive is different. You might skip the quest for RP reasons on character A, but choose to engage it with character B. If you hate how the quest is designed, well, it's not contributing to your enjoyment in any shape.

 

Regarding the Witcher 3: it is stupid to tell you to merely skip the content. That's zots you're paying for, but not seeing any return on in any capacity.

 

The only thing I would say in that regard is that if you have no investment in either Witcher 1 or Witcher 2, you're probably not going to care as much for arguing the Witcher 3 to remove said content. That's in contrast to say someone who enjoyed DA:O or DA2 if not both and now finds DA:I unappealing.

[Sartoz]

Snip

-----

Regarding the Witcher 3: it is stupid to tell you to merely skip the content. That's zots you're paying for, but not seeing any return on in any capacity.

 

                                                                              <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

 

Even Bio's Creative Director Mike Laidlaw is aware of gamers' complaints. 

Laidlaw says he has seen the complaints from fans about the number of collectable side-quests and "doesn't disagree".

 

and follows up with:

...he argues, there is no need for players to actually complete all of those quests, just because they are in the game. And there isn't, technically, in that they are not required to trigger a perfect ending or even reach the end at all. But then again, they are there....

 

The thing is, these fetch quests, if done right, would be more interesting. More important, the huge empty areas are a mistake because... well they are empty.  Doing them because 

1) they are there and

2) you paid for them .......is fine but I got bored real quick. Link below... wordy interview..

 

source: http://www.eurogamer...s-of-dragon-age

Modifié par Sartoz, 24 avril 2015 - 01:21 .

[Elhanan]

@ Il Divo

The only minor quests I skip due to dislike are Collections (eg; Bottles, Mosaics), and avoid Jumping puzzles for Shards and minor loot. And doing so did not have any apparent effect on the game. If I had to do them, then I might be aggravated; loathed having to play mini-games in KOTOR. This was not so bad in ME1, as I could use medi-gel to bypass them.

Personally do not see the purpose to invest zots into making optional minor things 'more involved', adding cut-scenes, etc. Such quests would still be described as minor, Fetch quests, etc. Currently, being able to choose to perform the task or skip it seems the more practical approach.

[Il Divo]

@ Il Divo

The only minor quests I skip due to dislike are Collections (eg; Bottles, Mosaics), and avoid Jumping puzzles for Shards and minor loot. And doing so did not have any apparent effect on the game. If I had to do them, then I might be aggravated; loathed having to play mini-games in KOTOR. This was not so bad in ME1, as I could use medi-gel to bypass them.

Personally do not see the purpose to invest zots into making optional minor things 'more involved', adding cut-scenes, etc. Such quests would still be described as minor, Fetch quests, etc. Currently, being able to choose to perform the task or skip it seems the more practical approach.

 

And that those are the only quests you dislike doesn't  say much, beyond that you happened to be on the luckier side of the spectrum. There are gamers who find many of these quests lackluster compared to other Bioware side quests and would rather zots not be wasted on writing these side quests, creating these large areas without content, etc, etc. Hence the criticism of these side quests and implementation in particular. Saying "just skip it" is foolish, particularly since this represents a significant amount of resources.
 

 

You don't see the purpose in implementing cinematics, more involved dialogue, better choices with consequences into the experience? It's the standard quality over quantity issues that most developers deal with.

[In Exile]

Ugh, if you don't expect most of your players to actually do certain content, why even put it in the game in the first place? Sounds like backpedaling to me. It'd be nice if they could flat-out own up to their poor decisions for a change.

Don't put any weight into it. Bioware always says idiotic stuff when it's defending itself. For DA2 it was that we couldn't handle how revolutionary and innovative the game was in the end.

[Elhanan]

And that those are the only quests you dislike doesn't  say much, beyond that you happened to be on the luckier side of the spectrum. There are gamers who find many of these quests lackluster compared to other Bioware side quests and would rather zots not be wasted on writing these side quests, creating these large areas without content, etc, etc. Hence the criticism of these side quests and implementation in particular. Saying "just skip it" is foolish, particularly since this represents a significant amount of resources.
 
 
You don't see the purpose in implementing cinematics, more involved dialogue, better choices with consequences into the experience? It's the standard quality over quantity issues that most developers deal with.

No; skipping it solves the situation currently. Simply complaining about the current feature while some demand it to be fixed seems foolish to me.

For future games, perhaps not implementing them at all might be the call, but personally am not one to balk at having extra content, even if it is content I might not play (eg; DA-MP). While I might not care for it, or be able to play it, others might, and they have the same right to play the game they enjoy. And adding even more zots to dress them up for those disliking these quests now appears unwise.

[Il Divo]

No; skipping it solves the situation currently. Simply complaining about the current feature while some demand it to be fixed seems foolish to me.

For future games, perhaps not implementing them at all might be the call, but personally am not one to balk at having extra content, even if it is content I might not play (eg; DA-MP). While I might not care for it, or be able to play it, others might, and they have the same right to play the game they enjoy. And adding even more zots to dress them up for those disliking these quests now appears unwise.

 

Explaining what you find wrong with the feature establishes a precedent so Bioware knows what each fan desires from the game. That you find something wrong with this is itself amusing. Bioware's not likely to fix this in DA:I, sure. But this can potentially impact how they develop future dlc, games, etc. Multiple races for example was one such feature, if I recall.

 

Not sure what you think you're getting at with the second paragraph. People have the right to express a desire for a certain kind of product, regardless of whether it gets created. Even if it comes at the expense of your own enjoyment. That's simply consumerism operating in a free market: limited resources, limited time, meaning some people will like what is produced, others won't.

 

If a person liked DA:O side quests and hates DA:I side quests, why is it in their interest to give in to your status quo? Their goal is to maximize their own enjoyment, not protect your gaming interests. What you describe isn't "extra" content that was tacked on for free, it's part of the price point added to the game itself.
 

[midnight tea]

Ugh, if you don't expect most of your players to actually do certain content, why even put it in the game in the first place? Sounds like backpedaling to me. It'd be nice if they could flat-out own up to their poor decisions for a change.

 

 

Uh, this is the weirdest complaint ever. Like - do you even have to ask why the game has all of this additional content? 

 

The answer is so simple and straightforward, I have my doubts it should be voiced in the first place - it's there for those who like to go one step further: completionists, people interested with lore, immersion or just simple exploration.

 

You don't have to complete them, just like you don't have to work harder for better results when following the main quest - you can skip more complex Redcliffe quest to get the mages, and go immediately for templars. You don't have to gain high court approval in Halamshiral - you can skip the peaceful resolution of the quest and fight the baddie. You don't have to help your troops or save Warden warriors in Adamant (or recruit Jana as an agent in Crestwood, which saves her life)... or explore every corner of the Fade in search of improved stats, or codex entries and journals. You also don't have to do any of the rituals in Temple of Mythal to ally yourself with the Sentinels - but if you don't, you're locking yourself out of not just finding out more about the story, but also more favorable options that get reflected later in epilogue or - presumably - in later games.

 

All the fluff and 'fetch-quests' people complain about may not give immediate or visible benefits, but they're there - they're also hardly random. Even small quests either tie in to the main objective of the zone, fit it thematically (even a simple ring quest somebody else mentioned already) or give additional insight or lore bits for explorers.

 

You may not like it, you can argue that quests should be more 'meaty' which is fair (they're already trying to address that in JoH DLC) - but either claiming that most of the side quests are all but useless or asking what's the point of additional content is kinda absurd.

[Elhanan]

Explaining what you find wrong with the feature establishes a precedent so Bioware knows what each fan desires from the game. That you find something wrong with this is itself amusing. Bioware's not likely to fix this in DA:I, sure. But this can potentially impact how they develop future dlc, games, etc. Multiple races for example was one such feature, if I recall.
 
Not sure what you think you're getting at with the second paragraph. People have the right to express a desire for a certain kind of product, regardless of whether it gets created. Even if it comes at the expense of your own enjoyment. That's simply consumerism operating in a free market: limited resources, limited time, meaning some people will like what is produced, others won't.
 
If a person liked DA:O side quests and hates DA:I side quests, why is it in their interest to give in to your status quo? Their goal is to maximize their own enjoyment, not protect your gaming interests. What you describe isn't "extra" content that was tacked on for free, it's part of the price point added to the game itself.

Again, not quite. While folks have a right to complain, they also have the responsibility to remain civil, offer constructive crit, and treat others with respect. This often is not the case here. Best phrase I have heard lately is "Pretend you're not on the Internet" - Gopher.

And there are those that like having this added content; having varied options for gameplay, XP. loot, etc. They should not have to lose their content because of the complaints of others. And personally, I prefer the present way of illustrating side content, as opposed to the lengthy cut-scenes of some games.

[CDR Aedan Cousland]

Don't put any weight into it. Bioware always says idiotic stuff when it's defending itself. For DA2 it was that we couldn't handle how revolutionary and innovative the game was in the end.

 

Ah, so basically their ability to handle complaints and critiques like mature adults rivals that of an indie developer.

[Il Divo]

Again, not quite. While folks have a right to complain, they also have the responsibility to remain civil, offer constructive crit, and treat others with respect. This often is not the case here. Best phrase I have heard lately is "Pretend you're not on the Internet" - Gopher.

And there are those that like having this added content; having varied options for gameplay, XP. loot, etc. They should not have to lose their content because of the complaints of others. And personally, I prefer the present way of illustrating side content, as opposed to the lengthy cut-scenes of some games.

 

Hostility from some posters doesn't suddenly negate the criticisms of others.

 

To the latter, I say who cares? That's not how game development works. Bioware completely axed exploration with Mass Effect 1 and there were still gamers there who enjoyed the presentation, despite how much grief it got. With ME4, they seem to be bringing it back. The point is that a game developer is not inherently responsible for catering to all parties. This sort of attempt at appeasement is to a large part why both Mass Effect 1's RPG elements and TPS elements were so horrible for many players: overextension leaving both aspects of the game unsatisfying.
 

[Elhanan]

Hostility from some posters doesn't suddenly negate the criticisms of others.
 
To the latter, I say who cares? That's not how game development works. Bioware completely axed exploration with Mass Effect 1 and there were still gamers there who enjoyed the presentation, despite how much grief it got. With ME4, they seem to be bringing it back. The point is that a game developer is not inherently responsible for catering to all parties. This sort of attempt at appeasement is to a large part why both Mass Effect 1's RPG elements and TPS elements were so horrible for many players: overextension leaving both aspects of the game unsatisfying.

Agree that one cannot please all of the folks all of the time. But it is quite easy for me to dismiss in a few words someone that seems to have no respect for others; displays a lack of character. I do not mind a difference of opinion, but I do have a wish that the whiners and belligerent would get Gibb's Slapp for a reality check....

[Saphiron123]

@ Il Divo

The only minor quests I skip due to dislike are Collections (eg; Bottles, Mosaics), and avoid Jumping puzzles for Shards and minor loot. And doing so did not have any apparent effect on the game. If I had to do them, then I might be aggravated; loathed having to play mini-games in KOTOR. This was not so bad in ME1, as I could use medi-gel to bypass them.

Personally do not see the purpose to invest zots into making optional minor things 'more involved', adding cut-scenes, etc. Such quests would still be described as minor, Fetch quests, etc. Currently, being able to choose to perform the task or skip it seems the more practical approach.

That's the thing, if they're more involved, if they have good writing and unique companion dialogue, you don't do them because you have to... you do them because they're fun.

The fetch quests in DAI aren't fun. They're chores. And they replace content that could have been fun.

[Elhanan]

That's the thing, if they're more involved, if they have good writing and unique companion dialogue, you don't do them because you have to... you do them because they're fun.

The fetch quests in DAI aren't fun. They're chores. And they replace content that could have been fun.

Evidently they are not chores for everyone; writing, banter, and current graphical views are good for them.

[Saphiron123]

Evidently they are not chores for everyone; writing, banter, and current graphical views are good for them.

Hey dude, if you think delivering flowers is as satisfying as a well written multi part side quest, cool... that's your opinion, but you're in the minority.

[Elhanan]

Hey dude, if you think delivering flowers is as satisfying as a well written multi part side quest, cool... that's your opinion, but you're in the minority.

That is an assumption, but even if true, being in the minority does not equate to being incorrect, invalid, etc. And my Noble Inq's have done this out of empathy for the elder; did not seem like a chore unworthy of the role of a servant to others.

[midnight tea]

Hey dude, if you think delivering flowers is as satisfying as a well written multi part side quest, cool... that's your opinion, but you're in the minority.

 

Yes, because there are SO MANY flowers we have to bring to SO MANY graves - it's not like it's just ONE quest in the first zone in the game, and is hardly representative of quests we can find in Hinterlands alone.

 

*sigh* I guess it's time to play Skyrim again, and focus on the rrrrrriveting quest of 'bring 10 bear pelts to that lady over there'.... 'oh, and 5 ice wraith teeth to that merchant here!' 'And while you're at it, could you collect 20 Nirnroot, Death Bells and Nightshade'....?

 

Every game has small quests like that. Deal with it. Or just skip it. It's not like your life depends on it (though the bump in companion approval is IMO worth helping the elderly elf).

[Sifr]

I think the problem is that while Fetch Quests are a staple of RPGs, it can sometimes fell like a holdover from an earlier era where you had to pad out your game with filler because you didn't have enough story or plot when it came down to it? While I don't mind them personally, I think the criticism is valid at times because sometimes those quests don't really fit the tone of the game that we're playing?

 

While Skyrim had some really daft and inane sidequests, I think that it kinda got away with it (barely) because you do often spend most of the time sitting around waiting for the next dragon attack and you need something to pass the time? The dragons don't even start appearing until you began the main plot (which you can put off for hundreds of hours if you wish) and for the first act or two of the game, the dragon attacks are fairly infrequent as Alduin still hasn't gotten around to resurrecting them yet?

 

In that regard, Dawnguard had a better balance, as most of the side quests were tied to finding weapons and relics for your respective faction (Volkihar or Dawnguard), so that you never felt that what you were doing was divorced from the actual game itself?

 

As for the Dragon Age series, it worked in Origins for the most part as the Warden often had to do these quests to gain favour with the various factions they needed to get to honour the treaties and the epilogue showed the effect that those sidequests had on the various people you helped (or hindered), making you feel like it actually mattered?

 

DA2's fetch quests were at least semi-plot related half the time and were justified because Hawke was a penniless mercenary trying to scrape together cash, while in later acts they do odd jobs for fun and as something to occupy their time, since Hawke is now a Rich Idiot With No Job (much like Varric).

 

The problem with Inquisition is that while it makes sense that you'd do those jobs at the beginning as a mere Agent, once you become the head honcho, the importance of your errands should have increased instead of remaining the same? While it does look good having them be a hands-on leader and the people they're doing jobs for seeing that the Inquisitor is personally doing those tasks for them, it'd have been nice to have had some actual plot significant tasks?

 

I'd have taken more cues from Awakening, as while the Warden (or Orlesian Warden) had to do some minor sidequests, some of them did have some relevance later on, such as finding the stuff you needed to upgrade the Keep and your troops for the final endgame?

 

If the restoration of Skyhold was something we needed to work on ourselves, instead of being fixed up as the plot progressed (and the only thing we have input on being cosmetic changes), then it'd have been far more of an achievement to have your final, awesome looking castle? Same with how well equipped our troops were, that'd have made it seem far more compelling during the Attack on Haven and in the cutscene going to the Arbor Wilds if the level of gear and weapons reflected how much we'd put into outfitting them? Or how many of them survived those battles against Corypheus' forces?

 

So basically, if they have to be in games, then Fetch Quests shouldn't be pointless? They should always matter and advance the plot somehow, even if it's only in the smallest of ways?

[midnight tea]

The problem with Inquisition is that while it makes sense that you'd do those jobs at the beginning as a mere Agent, once you become the head honcho, the importance of your errands should have increased instead of remaining the same? 

 

I'm not going to argue that the quality of DAI quests is stellar at all times, be it in writing or design, but I'm starting to seriously question whether people pay attention to what they're doing at all. Thing is, that the importance of what Inquisitor does IS increasing zone to zone - it's not like you have to find blankets or ram meat at all times. I mean, let's check:

 

In Fallow Mire the Herald is tasked with rescuing the missing soldiers and challenging the Avvar chieftain's son - gives the Herald a boost in recognition and respect of his/her troops.

 

On Stormcoast the Herald looks for his/her man again (unsuccessfully I should point out) only to ally themselves/kill a fringe cult and later goes in search of missing Wardens - ties to main plot. 

 

Creswood is important - getting the keep and opening the dam to get into caves in order to close a giant rift that spawns hundreds of undead? Pretty epic, that, and crucial to main plot as well.

 

Western Approach is all about clearing the area from Venatori, track the mysterious (at that point) red lyrium mines and get to know what corrupted Wardens are doing, in preparation to assault on Adamant - aside from getting ourselves another Keep and getting rid of darkspawn infestation. Ties to the main plot - detected.

 

On Exalted Plains we help to stabilize the most volatile region impacted by Civil war, by reclaiming the it from undead and renegades, who turn out to be infiltrated by Corypheus men. Hardly unimportant and also lets us see what the conflict between Celene and Gaspard wrought.

 

Emerald Graves is about stabilizing the region again, while working with refugees and their fairly prominent leader - plus, we get to track what Samson is doing, while investigation where red lyrium source is continues. Advancing the plot? Definitely.

 

Hissing Wastes can be entirely put aside, true, but it's hardly a menial job - the entire region has been used as field for experiments; rifts are literally everywhere, spawning bajillion of powerful demons. Add to that the discovery of thaigs on surface and subsequent search for ancient dwarven rune, which - according to Varric - is worth a fortune.

 

Emprise du Lion is also critically important, since its the actual source of exceedingly dangerous red lyrium, information on Samson - and is full of people in need of rescue. Keep is a bonus (so is killing a powerful demon) and so are three dragons. Fetch questing? Not at all.

 

Frostback Basin from JOH? Not only they've tightened questing there and upped difficulty, it can be hardly claimed that the challenge is beneath what IQ should be doing.

 

So there you go. Most of things I mentioned does advance the plot, even if in the smallest ways - and if it doesn't, it either adds something to information about the world, lore, power or influence (plus, war table missions, agents and all that jazz). It really is simply a matter of paying attention.

 

 

 

Also - Skyrim is hardly about just 'passing time' while waiting for another dragon to attack. Have you forgotten how many large side-quests there are? The Mage's College in Winterhold, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, choosing between Ulfric Stormcloak or the Empire, etc.

 

Personally, while I think Skyrim and DA differ in many significant ways (the Dragonborn isn't tasked with building a big organization in order to fight the ancient evil or become a political power in Tamriel), both of them aim to show that there are other things going on in the world aside from the main quest - that the world is rich in story, lore and just people trying to live their lives, while surrounded by chaos. This is why I don't mind many smaller quests really, as somebody who enjoys exploration - oh sure, there are fetch quests that I wouldn't get out of my way to complete, but to call them all 'fetch quests' does them a disservice.

[Sartoz]

I'm not going to argue that the quality of DAI quests is stellar at all times, be it in writing or design, but I'm starting to seriously question whether people pay attention to what they're doing at all. Thing is, that the importance of what Inquisitor does IS increasing zone to zone - it's not like you have to find blankets or ram meat at all times. I mean, let's check:

 

In Fallow Mire the Herald is tasked with rescuing the missing soldiers and challenging the Avvar chieftain's son - gives the Herald a boost in recognition and respect of his/her troops.

 

On Stormcoast the Herald looks for his/her man again (unsuccessfully I should point out) only to ally themselves/kill a fringe cult and later goes in search of missing Wardens - ties to main plot. 

 

Creswood is important - getting the keep and opening the dam to get into caves in order to close a giant rift that spawns hundreds of undead? Pretty epic, that, and crucial to main plot as well.

 

Western Approach is all about clearing the area from Venatori, track the mysterious (at that point) red lyrium mines and get to know what corrupted Wardens are doing, in preparation to assault on Adamant - aside from getting ourselves another Keep and getting rid of darkspawn infestation. Ties to the main plot - detected.

 

On Exalted Plains we help to stabilize the most volatile region impacted by Civil war, by reclaiming the it from undead and renegades, who turn out to be infiltrated by Corypheus men. Hardly unimportant and also lets us see what the conflict between Celene and Gaspard wrought.

 

Emerald Graves is about stabilizing the region again, while working with refugees and their fairly prominent leader - plus, we get to track what Samson is doing, while investigation where red lyrium source is continues. Advancing the plot? Definitely.

 

Hissing Wastes can be entirely put aside, true, but it's hardly a menial job - the entire region has been used as field for experiments; rifts are literally everywhere, spawning bajillion of powerful demons. Add to that the discovery of thaigs on surface and subsequent search for ancient dwarven rune, which - according to Varric - is worth a fortune.

 

Emprise du Lion is also critically important, since its the actual source of exceedingly dangerous red lyrium, information on Samson - and is full of people in need of rescue. Keep is a bonus (so is killing a powerful demon) and so are three dragons. Fetch questing? Not at all.

 

Frostback Basin from JOH? Not only they've tightened questing there and upped difficulty, it can be hardly claimed that the challenge is beneath what IQ should be doing.

 

So there you go. Most of things I mentioned does advance the plot, even if in the smallest ways - and if it doesn't, it either adds something to information about the world, lore, power or influence (plus, war table missions, agents and all that jazz). It really is simply a matter of paying attention.

 

 

 

 

                                                                                            <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

 

Where is the INFLUENCE-O-METER?

 

You say it, the marketing crapola says it... But where in the war map does it show the areas of weak, neutral, substantial influence zones? Where does it show your military power or lack of? Where does it show your economic ties and influence?.. what about the political arena?

 

The above questions are answered tangentially... = not a satisfactory answer based on marketing/promo statements.

 

All I read is words, words and more words about how the Inquisition is supposed to work and so it does as you finish War Table missions.  But, actual game feedback?

[Sifr]

I'm not going to argue that the quality of DAI quests is stellar at all times, be it in writing or design, but I'm starting to seriously question whether people pay attention to what they're doing at all. Thing is, that the importance of what Inquisitor does IS increasing zone to zone - it's not like you have to find blankets or ram meat at all times.

 

You raised some excellent points, but at the same time, there's also the problem that you don't really have to go to any of those zones half the time?

 

Someone doing a speed run could theoretically complete the game whilst completely skipping the Hissing Wastes, Emprise du Lion, the Fallow Mire, Emerald Graves, Exalted Plains and Forbidden Oasis? Crestwood and the Western Approach are mandatory because of HLTA, while WEWH has no requirements. And if you don't want to recruit Bull, you could skip going to the Storm Coast entirely?

 

While you are doing some sidequests that are plot relevant whilst you're there, the point remains that half the time you don't really need to do any of those quests to advance the main plot, they aren't required to get a golden ending for the game, nor required to actually complete it?

 

Sure DAO was like this as well in some ways, but it's a bit of a step backwards from DA2, where certain sidequests were often required to allow the main quest to progress forwards and often provided foreshadowing for later in the game?

 

Frostback Basin from JOH? Not only they've tightened questing there and upped difficulty, it can be hardly claimed that the challenge is beneath what IQ should be doing.

 

Which is why a lot of people agree that JOH was far better than the main game because of how it integrated the sidequests, mainquest and area together so that nothing we were doing felt like it unimportant or filler. The main game really needed every area to have that level of focus to it as JOH had?

 

Also - Skyrim is hardly about just 'passing time' while waiting for another dragon to attack. Have you forgotten how many large side-quests there are? The Mage's College in Winterhold, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, choosing between Ulfric Stormcloak or the Empire, etc.

 

Aye, but that's why I didn't mention those questlines before, because those aren't really sidequests as much as faction questlines. Aside from them, a lot of Skyrim can be described as looking for random stuff for someone between dragon fights?

 

Not to say that I don't love Skyrim and haven't sunk hundreds of hours into the game, but I do sometimes have to stop and wonder why the Crystal Dragon Jesus of the Elder Scrolls Universe is running around looking for flowers and various odds and ends, instead of stopping the End of the World, a Vampire Apocalypse, as well as their evil predecessor and his mad cult on Solstheim?

 

[dsl08002]

One thing however is that I think that DA:s campaing is going to well for the inquisition, in a normal war there are victory and defeat. And the Bad guys only get Haven and that's it. It would be more realistic if you were on the retreat for a while, then bounce back and so on.

[Sifr]

One thing however is that I think that DA:s campaing is going to well for the inquisition, in a normal war there are victory and defeat. And the Bad guys only get Haven and that's it. It would be more realistic if you were on the retreat for a while, then bounce back and so on.

 

Yeah, aside from taking over the Mages/Templars and attacking Haven, it never feels like we're in danger at all once we get to Skyhold, where we're winning victory after victory? It's a shame that the counterattacks against our Keeps were cut, because having the chance we might lose them and control over an area we'd previously secured, would have made it seem like the stakes were still high and that we were never entirely safe?

[midnight tea]

 

You raised some excellent points, but at the same time, there's also the problem that you don't really have to go to any of those zones half the time?

 

Someone doing a speed run could theoretically complete the game whilst completely skipping the Hissing Wastes, Emprise du Lion, the Fallow Mire, Emerald Graves, Exalted Plains and Forbidden Oasis? Crestwood and the Western Approach are mandatory because of HLTA, while WEWH has no requirements. And if you don't want to recruit Bull, you could skip going to the Storm Coast entirely?

 

While you are doing some sidequests that are plot relevant whilst you're there, the point remains that half the time you don't really need to do any of those quests to advance the main plot, they aren't required to get a golden ending for the game, nor required to actually complete it?

 

But that's the point - you work harder = you get more benefits. And isn't it actually better that you CAN actually do a speed run if you'd like (even though the best you'd build would be a Meh-quisition and not many people will be your friends) or have a choice to do more stuff and chisel our Inquisition into exactly what we want it to be?

Call me crazy, but personally I enjoy being given that kind of choice. 

 

Also, can you imagine people being forced to do most of things in the game - all the exploration and stuff - how many would complain at that? I've already read enough complaints from people moaning about being forced to get a few Power Points to unlock main quest and zones... Can you imagine complaints after figuring out that you have to unlock all zones and do most quests there in order to proceed further with storyline?

 

You can always argue that if quests were interesting it would be less of a chore, sure, but let's face it - even if those were some of the best quests ever written and designed in story of gaming, with the amount of content we get in DAI, it's nearly impossible to balance between players who want to just follow the main quest and those enjoying more thorough run. Therefore I don't have a problem with them deciding that a lot of content is open to be either completed or not.

 

 

Which is why a lot of people agree that JOH was far better than the main game because of how it integrated the sidequests, mainquest and area together so that nothing we were doing felt like it unimportant or filler. The main game really needed every area to have that level of focus to it as JOH had?

 

Which signifies that we should be optimistic about Bioware addressing many concerns you or other players have. Still, JOH was ONE, optional zone and there were still things in it that can be entirely skipped, that were not really that different to what we find in normal areas.

 

 

Aye, but that's why I didn't mention those questlines before, because those aren't really sidequests as much as faction questlines. Aside from them, a lot of Skyrim can be described as looking for random stuff for someone between dragon fights?

 

Not to say that I don't love Skyrim and haven't sunk hundreds of hours into the game, but I do sometimes have to stop and wonder why the Crystal Dragon Jesus of the Elder Scrolls Universe is running around looking for flowers and various odds and ends, instead of stopping the End of the World, a Vampire Apocalypse, as well as their evil predecessor and his mad cult on Solstheim?

 

Oh, the reason is actually pretty simple - time. And life.... or, well, as much as life can be simulated without it getting TOO tedious. Let's face it - neither the events in TES or Inquisition happen in very specific dates or with timer in hand; it simply doesn't happen all at once. 

 

We have no idea how many years it took for events in Tamriel to unfold - it's probably up to the player. In case of Inquisition I hear that rough estimates are that it took about a year to organize the whole thing after the explosion on the Conclave.

 

Call me crazy, but I actually CAN imagine that Inquisitor had time for many activities, between all the effort that it took to secure alliances, build an army, stabilize things, collect info on enemies and friends, make friends and deepen relationships and all that jazz.

 

The trick is that you have to think of RPGs like Skyrim or DAI like an ongoing TV show, rather than a movie - we don't follow one specific story arc and only lightly touch on subplots; there's actually time to take a step from a beaten track and look around... and maybe pick a flower or two

 

 

                                                                                            <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

 

Where is the INFLUENCE-O-METER?

 

You say it, the marketing crapola says it... But where in the war map does it show the areas of weak, neutral, substantial influence zones? Where does it show your military power or lack of? Where does it show your economic ties and influence?.. what about the political arena?

 

The above questions are answered tangentially... = not a satisfactory answer based on marketing/promo statements.

 

All I read is words, words and more words about how the Inquisition is supposed to work and so it does as you finish War Table missions.  But, actual game feedback?

 

Uh... you sound like those people who complain that they can't easily say what's the level of companion approval or disapproval in DAI, compared to previous titles. All of the things you mention are there, only they're not as explicit as you'd like it to be. It may not be as in-depth as you'd prefer - personally, I find it satisfying. I prefer to play RPGs than war simulators after all.

[Sartoz]

Don't put any weight into it. Bioware always says idiotic stuff when it's defending itself. For DA2 it was that we couldn't handle how revolutionary and innovative the game was in the end.

 

LOL!!  good amswer!!