280 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

The battle of DenerI'm was the most significant though considering what happened in that battle. And aside from Ostagar there really were not any major battles. The army crushed and the country torn by civil war. The Blight just swept through wi th little to no resistance until Denerim.

Well, sure, but there are three significant DAI battles: Haven, Adamant and the Arbor Wilds. That's more than in DAO certainly.

The only ongoing war is the mage templar war. The Orlesian civil war is in a period of truce.

[Fireheart]

True that about Emprise... Most boring map in the whole game. And the Imshael fight... lol I believe I was lv 22 or already 23 when I fought him. That battle was a joke. Just spammed Spirit Blade and Dragon Rage.

 

But back on topic, I do wish they would've showed more of the war or demons. Everybody knows that there are no kids in the game. I was really expecting to see a whole lot of orphans wandering around... do you remember that kid in Lothering you can talk to, and he's looking for his mother? Sure it doesn't lead anywhere but it helps you become immersed in the world, you see the effects the Blight has on people, families, and more opportunities to build up your character's personality. I'm also sad how the demon thing and rifts was done. I expected demons to just be wandering all over, like rams and fennecs, but they only show up when you approach a rift. Why is that? Do rifts react to people's presence? If that's the case, why doesn't everyone just move from the vicinity and they'll be fine. No need for soldiers, villagers to be dying. They never explained it. Also why do demons come out in waves when you fight the rift? Is it alive? How does it know I killed the previous, and so rifts have the power to actively spawn demons? It doesn't look like they're falling through, more like being pulled through. The rifts are alive... Okay I was just rambling.

 

Anyway, they also need to make the world more reactive or something. Many times a bandit(maybe demons too?) has followed me back to camp, and the requisition officer and whoever else just stands around, watching me die...

[line_genrou]

The story is good... it's just buried under 100 hours of fluff. Sadly, it's short too, most of their resources went into the fluff.

What's there is good though, it just feels like a dlc in a big empty set of wilderness environments.

 

You mean 100 hours of shard collecting and astrariums?

[SofaJockey]

...And once again, if there's a huge templar force that needs to be taken down, and I have like 100,000 men, why do I never see more then like 20 spread out across a map? 

 

Er, since when could last gen consoles handle more than 20 soldiers at a time?

When were there more than 20 foes threatening your party in DAO or DA2? That's why DA2 had them jumping in part way through...

 

These are simply technical constraints...

[SofaJockey]

True that about Emprise... Most boring map in the whole game. ...

 

Oh dear, I must disagree. I particularly enjoyed riding my nuggalope across Juicael's Crossing, recreating a scene from one of the early trailers...

 

Good times.

 

https://youtu.be/1fC9OcmsI4U

[Fireheart]

Oh dear, I must disagree. I particularly enjoyed riding my nuggalope across Juicael's Crossing, recreating a scene from one of the early trailers...

 

Good times.

 

https://youtu.be/1fC9OcmsI4U

I guess I just found it boring because I was so over leveled, even the dragons were easy, except Hivernal.

[Saphiron123]

Except the constant battles between the Mages and Templars in the Hinterlands that only stop when you destroy their respective camps.

"Battles" is a strong way of putting it, and it has no impact whatsoever on the story if you do stop it. You can walk around easier... Compared to origins, which had ostagar and Denerim and armies made of the allies you chose in the final battles, it's basic as crap. You can wipe out every red templar on he snow map, take their fort, smash their crystals... Zero impact on the game.

If you skip an entire map, does corypheus' forces get stronger? Outside of haven and adamant do you even see his forces except as random mobs? Nope. Hell, the final major engagement where your army supposedly breaks his forces appears entirely off screen, you only hear about it from your friends, you see like 6 groups of 5 bad guys fighting the occasional soldier or two.

And where's my army, why do I so rarely see my own forces fight?

Dragon age did war so much better years ago.

[In Exile]

"Battles" is a strong way of putting it, and it has no impact whatsoever on the story if you do stop it. You can walk around easier... Compared to origins, which had ostagar and Denerim and armies made of the allies you chose in the final battles, it's basic as crap. You can wipe out every red templar on he snow map, take their fort, smash their crystals... Zero impact on the game.

If you skip an entire map, does corypheus' forces get stronger? Outside of haven and adamant do you even see his forces except as random mobs? Nope. Hell, the final major engagement where your army supposedly breaks his forces appears entirely off screen, you only hear about it from your friends, you see like 6 groups of 5 bad guys fighting the occasional soldier or two.

And where's my army, why do I so rarely see my own forces fight?

Dragon age did war so much better years ago.

 

Did you play DA:O? Ostagar is a scripted scenario in which you don't participate: it's one cutscene. 

 

There's one battle: Denerim. Otherwise the darkspawn don't even exist on-screen. 

[HM Vengeance]

To be fair you're points are valid, The "war between mages and templars" is pointless, once you sort the little skirmish in the Hinterlands the Templars vanish and bandits replace them. Then you get a little argument when returning to Haven, after that the war isn't mentioned really because the game suddenly makes it about you and Corypheus. What annoyed me more than anything though was the final battle and the sealing of the rift, the fight was beyond boring and like Mass Effect 3.....it ended in disappointment.

 

Some people don't seem to realise that DA:I is on big fetch quest.......a rather boring one. Killing dragons has no purpose other than loot, they never fly off and burn down a village or snack on the locals. NPCs have next to no interaction with you, those that do send the inquistor......the head of a f***ing army on a fetch quest like their own personal slave. It makes no sense, this is why i like DA2 better because you had to hide your magic from Meredith, you could lie and pissing off NPCs was hilarious. Also siding with Mages or Templars in DA2 actually mattered........

[Koneko Koji]

Did you play DA:O? Ostagar is a scripted scenario in which you don't participate: it's one cutscene. 

 

There's one battle: Denerim. Otherwise the darkspawn don't even exist on-screen. 

 

But we got that cutscene - we got to see the forces and some of the fight - it made it feel more real.

With Inquisition especially on a Templar play through I feel totally disillusioned with being seperated from the action, and having the majority of the monsters being templars ... I mean seriously, how many bloody templars are there that if I side with them, I still spend the whole game fighting hordes of them???!

[duckley]

For me the game is more about picking up the pieces after the war. It is about the chaos of the wardens, the mages, the Templars, and Orlais. The folks in the Emerald Graves didn't even know their war was over. It is about an organization trying to deal with many fronts of chaos and destruction. Would it have been a better story if they had shown more of the war and less of the aftermath... maybe?

 

There is so much richness and depth to the game, but I agree that it is big and sometimes that takes away the feeling of being more involved. There will never be another Origins IMO - like the sweetness of a first love - but it is still a good game and one that has brought me many, many hours of entertainment,,,, so that's something.

[Saphiron123]

Well, sure, but there are three significant DAI battles: Haven, Adamant and the Arbor Wilds. That's more than in DAO certainly.

The only ongoing war is the mage templar war. The Orlesian civil war is in a period of truce.

Corypheus has a massive army... that IS an ongoing war. Except when we enter these maps, aside from our requisition officer and one or two dudes, our army is totally absent. We never see the impact of the demon armies on the people or villages or cities... the map with the rifts is exactly the same as the map without, aside from a little less green.

And dude, the arbor wilds was like 30 bad guys in little groups of 5. It was the most disappointing major conflict in videogame history. I literally saw more bandits in the hinterlands then in Corypheus' "army". Bioware gives me handfuls of soldiers, while even Ubisoft with assassins creed untiy puts hundreds on screen at a time on my ps4.
 

 

For me the game is more about picking up the pieces after the war. It is about the chaos of the wardens, the mages, the Templars, and Orlais. The folks in the Emerald Graves didn't even know their war was over. It is about an organization trying to deal with many fronts of chaos and destruction. Would it have been a better story if they had shown more of the war and less of the aftermath... maybe?

 

There is so much richness and depth to the game, but I agree that it is big and sometimes that takes away the feeling of being more involved. There will never be another Origins IMO - like the sweetness of a first love - but it is still a good game and one that has brought me many, many hours of entertainment,,,, so that's something.

We never see the chaos either though... Where are the refugees, the people being slaughtered by demons and red templars, where are all these major engagements we hear about?

I'm the leader of the inquisition, and I almost never see the enemy or my own forces in significant numbers outside of Haven and Adamant. Haven was excellent, but it was the peak of the game, which is a bummer. Even before the major fight at Haven, I think the closest I felt all game to seeing my men and having an army was watching my men train in the courtyard for the first time.. it was so cool to see, i even added the training field in skyhold to see more of that (and was sad to see it was just two guys sparring). Again, once you hit skyhold, you never really see your troops.

At least in denerim, i could actually field my men.
 

 

But we got that cutscene - we got to see the forces and some of the fight - it made it feel more real.

With Inquisition especially on a Templar play through I feel totally disillusioned with being seperated from the action, and having the majority of the monsters being templars ... I mean seriously, how many bloody templars are there that if I side with them, I still spend the whole game fighting hordes of them???!

This. Ostagar was a cutscene with a small but significant quest to play in the tower leading to the ogre battle running simultaniously, but i felt so far haead of it's time, and it was so key to the story. The music, the animation, the dialogue was all so memorable for it's day.

It wasn't just the cutscene, it was crossing the bridge and seeing the army fighting below, it was seeing major characters fall and major events unfold. 

Ostagar was amazing. It's still amazing even today, I'm amazed how well it held up... origins just made you feel involved, like you were having a real impact on the world. I never got that feeling from inquisition.

[Elhanan]

Corypheus has a massive army... that IS an ongoing war. Except when we enter these maps, aside from our requisition officer and one or two dudes, our army is totally absent. We never see the impact of the demon armies on the people or villages or cities... the map with the rifts is exactly the same as the map without, aside from a little less green.

And dude, the arbor wilds was like 30 bad guys in little groups of 5. It was the most disappointing major conflict in videogame history. I literally saw more bandits in the hinterlands then in Corypheus' "army". Bioware gives me handfuls of soldiers, while even Ubisoft with assassins creed untiy puts hundreds on screen at a time on my ps4. 
 
We never see the chaos either though... Where are the refugees, the people being slaughtered by demons and red templars, where are all these major engagements we hear about?

I'm the leader of the inquisition, and I almost never see the enemy or my own forces in significant numbers outside of Haven and Adamant. Haven was excellent, but it was the peak of the game, which is a bummer. Even before the major fight at Haven, I think the closest I felt all game to seeing my men and having an army was watching my men train in the courtyard for the first time.. it was so cool to see, i even added the training field in skyhold to see more of that (and was sad to see it was just two guys sparring). Again, once you hit skyhold, you never really see your troops.

At least in denerim, i could actually field my men. 
 
This. Ostagar was a cutscene with a small but significant quest to play in the tower leading to the ogre battle running simultaniously, but i felt so far haead of it's time, and it was so key to the story. The music, the animation, the dialogue was all so memorable for it's day.

It wasn't just the cutscene, it was crossing the bridge and seeing the army fighting below, it was seeing major characters fall and major events unfold. 

Ostagar was amazing. It's still amazing even today, I'm amazed how well it held up... origins just made you feel involved, like you were having a real impact on the world. I never got that feeling from inquisition.

As with DAO, mass troops are seen in cut-scenes. Many soldiers are seen in the Emerald Graves, the Exalted Plains, the Western Approach, etc; are scattered across the maps in squads.

For victims, the Hinterlands begins with them for the Mage vs Templar conflict. Then after the vision, almost any area with Red Lyrium, Venatori, and other main opponents will have slaves, refugees, or more dead.

I am also still impressed with DAO; consider it better than DAI myself. But it is advisable to remove blinders when viewing large pictures and memories from older days.

[Monster20862]

My opinion

[Archerwarden]

^comparing the first game with a third game in the series is a valid argument. Does not mean the poster has blinders on.

In DAO you fought with troops outside of Denerim. Inside Denerim you had your pick of Elves, Dwarves, Redcliff soldiers and Templars and Werewolves to fight with during the last stages. In the Redcliffe quest you also fought with the militia and other townsmen. All of which you could actually see in the game while fighting the enemy.

[Elhanan]

^comparing the first game with a third game in the series is a valid argument. Does not mean the poster has blinders on.

In DAO you fought with troops outside of Denerim. Inside Denerim you had your pick of Elves, Dwarves, Redcliff soldiers and Templars and Werewolves to fight with during the last stages. In the Redcliffe quest you also fought with the militia and other townsmen. All of which you could actually see in the game while fighting the enemy.

And Allied troops are seen in the Arbor Wilds, the Lion, and if supported, in the Storm Coast. And as grand as DAO may be, the actual forces representing the Mages, Golems, etc were not as numerous as some seem to recall.

[Ashagar]

Indeed much of it is most likely limited by the fact the game was also on the old console systems as well meaning they had to deal with the technical limitations of the 360 and PS3 as opposed to the more advanced technical specs of a PC and the current generation consoles.

[Archerwarden]

And Allied troops are seen in the Arbor Wilds, the Lion, and if supported, in the Storm Coast. And as grand as DAO may be, the actual forces representing the Mages, Golems, etc were not as numerous as some seem to recall.

Yes, but at least we got to fight with others.

Seeing allied troops and fighting with them is not the same thing. The second you are engaged and involved with others in the fighting around you. The first you watch a few combatants.

[Elhanan]

Yes, but at least we got to fight with others.

Seeing allied troops and fighting with them is not the same thing. The second you are engaged and involved with others in the fighting around you. The first you watch a few combatants.

Beyond Morrigan, Cullen, and Leliana, I seem to recall troop involvement with the initial Pride Demon, as well as other instances where I recall utilizing barrier for allied NPC's such as the Agent recruit in The Lion.

[Amne YA]

That"s why i like the templar mission ,  they fight with you against the red templar , you + them + companion  against red templar  , i liked it it was like a mini war 

[Elhanan]

That"s why i like the templar mission ,  they fight with you against the red templar , you + them + companion  against red templar  , i liked it it was like a mini war

Good to know; waiting for that option with my 2H Inq. Thanks!

[SACanuckin Oz]

Funny moment in the first camp in the Exalted Plains - three npc bandits (I assume) wander into the camp, where there's the requisition officer, and I believe 2 other soldiers. They (bandits & soldiers) totally ignore each other, even as their shoulders pretty much rub together...

then the bandits get within my range, and whazam, they attack ME. While the requisition officers starts telling me she has something of that "might interest me".

What a joke.

 

I have many of those moments in my game... This game is programmed like a typical MMO-RPG - spawn mobs ignore the friendly npc's and only aggro the main party.

 

Well done Bioware. I mean, it's only 2 or three years after Bethesda released Skyrim, and there important nps'c can actually be killed by vampires, etc. which can kill off quests...

 

As to the battles - I find the Exalted Plains the least believable - those magic bugles that instantly summon a large force of Orlesian troops to stand around doing nothing, after the inquisitor's party cleared the ramparts. Wow, what brave Orlesians.... 

[Ashagar]

I think it would be more correct to say like a old school Computer RPG. Most MMO complaints I see are usually about things that are staples in older Computer and console RPGs and Adventure games that MMOs borrowed.

[midnight tea]

 

DA:I broke one of the cardinal rules of writing fiction which is "show, don't tell." We got told everything but never shown anything and we never got to experience the things talked about.

 

Oh, they did SHOW war and effects of it... problem is, that for some people (it seems) showing war means LITERALLY showing it in the simplest way people imagine it, that is - tons of people killing one another. That, hun, would be telling rather than showing, ironically.

 

It's really sad to see that doing anything subtler than armies battling one another (though it's not like we don't have fairly long battle sequences: Haven, Adamant, templars and mages fighting one another in Hinterlands, etc) and focusing more on effects of war (destroyed landscapes, gruesome, decimated corpses, refugees, people complaining at war, doing all kinds of quests that deal with stabilizing the region) apparently constitutes "NOT SHOWING US ENOUGH!"

 

Oh please...

[SACanuckin Oz]

Some aspects of battles are in fact very well done, The assault on Adamant Keep is maybe the best sequence of warfare I have seen in a DA game. Good buildup,war table discussion, intro scene, action, etc. It had all the elements. Very well done.

Haven's destruction was also fairly well done, with those waves of enemies assaulting.

 

What is lacking however, is maintaining that level of threat through the zones. In the Hissing Wastes, those small camps of Venatori and Red Templars (usually just over the hill from camp - for farming perhaps?) had no organization associated with it. Always just three of the enemy... except the camp on the top of the hill. I would like to see a quest to assault a major red Templar/Venatori camp somewhere, with similar drama associated.

 

What I believe the thread started out about though is the absence of the effects of war on the country - no widows, orphans, etc. Or maybe not

 

And it is strange that after that attack on Haven, that the red Templars just stop hunting you. Why? I would have expected a few concerted attacks on my party in some areas, as it would have strengthened the story and immersion. Remember those random darkspawn attacks on the road during DA:O? They made the threat more 'real'. The darspawn never just went away, like the enemies in DA:I seem to do, unless YOU attack them.

 

They SHOULD be attacking me, hunting me, in the name of Corypheus. Otherwise it feels like he is just ignoring you, awaiting his fate