280 réponses à ce sujet

[JadeDragon]

A show not tell moment was how the freeman of the dales was handled. They was a organization with a interesting backstory that had ties to the Civil War. Yet to even understand them you have to read the codexs. Not a single cutscene for them or judgement of any of there members to get there point of view we dont even talk to a single one. Yet they were being used by Venatori and Red Templars for major story events. They was a group whose purpose was somewhat understandable in nature but it got twisted as time went on. If you dont read the codex they just seem like madmen who just want control of the Dales.

[SACanuckin Oz]

Totally agree JadeDragon! You read about all their doubts setting in, yet the attack like mindless zombies on sight. A cut scene offering alliance/surrender would have worked very well.

 

If Sedris (from Western Approach) can get a trial, then surely these guys deserve one too. Again, I feel some areas (perhaps with the closest ties to the main quest) have the best developed options, while others (like Exalted Plains & Emeral Graves) are almost randomly put together.

[midnight tea]

You have to take into account that if Freemen were either anywhere close to Red Templars or Venatori, their decisions and minds could be warped, either by effects of red lyrium, blood magic or working with demons like Nightmare or Imshael. Wardens, after all, had all the best intentions as well, yet they paved the road to hell, as their minds got twisted by Corypheus and his lackeys.

 

So, since it's been fairly well established that those things have corrupting effects on people - and considering how much red lyrium we see sprouting everywhere and with Nightmare working from beyond the Veil to fuel people's fears - it's not that hard to figure out that it might have had a major effect not just on groups, but entire populations. It was even suggested in places that Corypheus might have been fueling conflicts for years, messing with people's minds and making them less prone to reason with.

Therefore no, them attacking like zombies, even with doubts setting in, doesn't really surprise me that much.

[SACanuckin Oz]

Not sure I totally agree - we read that the red Templars were fed red lyrium, which corrupted them, so I understand them being wacko. And there is one codex entry about a mage going crazy after drinking it.

 

But, from the notes I read about the Freemen, they did not ingest it, so why should they go crazy so soon?

 

And why is Fairbanks et al not affected similarly then? (if, as you suggest, everyone is equally affected)

[midnight tea]

You need to ingest red lyrium, and then the growth has to be guided by demons like Imshael in order to turn into a creature like red templar - but even being near red lyrium might mean you start hearing things, become paranoid or else. That's what happened to Meredith after all - at least before she turned into a red lyrium statue. And if Varric keeps the shard of it after expedition to Deep Roads, he mentions that he heard even this shard sing to him - he also mentions that it was likely responsible for his brother's madness. 

A shard. And we see whole blocks of it sprouting from the ground in many locations. Plus, we don't yet know how much has been hiding either underground or hidden in smaller quantities, smuggled to Orlais/Ferelden by Venatori or else. It might not have done much beyond making people more uncomfortable or paranoid, but with so much fear and conflict in the air, it's not really hard to see how can make things worse. It's a positive feedback kind of thing.

 

Also - Fairbanks was never a Freeman, nor he worked with Templars or Venatori, so why would he be affected on the same level as them? I've also never suggested that all people are affected in the same fashion equally - some may succumb to either demons or whispers of red lyrium faster, some might be more resilient, even if only because of strength of someone's personality (a factor that matters in world of Thedas, which has an entire realm that can be shaped or affected by person's will, and vice versa). 

[SACanuckin Oz]

Well, I can understand the Grey Wardens being affected - they have the taint after all (pity the game never explores Blackwall's resistance to the call - it's such a glaring divergence)

And the red Templars are fed the stuff

And the Venatori are a fanatical cult wanting to restore Tevinter to the might of it's empire.

 

And you do make good points about being near the red lyrium (although, as you mention it affects people in varying degrees).

 

And yet, I feel the Freemen were short changed. Even the last note by the general still read a man quite sane, although deeply concerned about the escalating red Templar demands, disappearance of members of the Freemen, and the fact that the red Templars were insisting on a more physical presence in the Dales.

 

He sounds scared, not crazy. I feel he deserved a trial. 

[midnight tea]

Well, I can understand the Grey Wardens being affected - they have the taint after all (pity the game never explores Blackwall's resistance to the call - it's such a glaring divergence)

 

I gather you never got enough of his approval to unlock and finish Blackwall's personal quest, or are yet to reach this point? In that case I assure you - everything is explained there.

 

As for the leader of Freemen - well, he might have had deserved a trial, but at the same time he might have been too desperate to not just throw himself at Inquisitor and die as consequence of it. Even Josie says something alike "You will judge people in Skyhold, Inquisitor - provided they survived initial encounter with you". Seems that the leader wasn't that lucky in any scenario.

 

 

 

I thought this thread was about the Orlesian Civil War. Because despite all the buildup around it (including an entire novel) we pretty much just show up at the tale end when everyone's too tired to fight anymore, then divvy up the spoils based on who we think is most worthy after interacting with them for 30 seconds at the Orlesian Ball.

 

It's for war in general... I mean, why would Orlesian War be a central focus of the Inquisition, when the story is about a threat and conflict that goes beyond mage-templar squabbles, or that of Celene and Gaspard? This is exactly why we read about it mostly in the book. You can pick it and let it influence your in-game decision later, but focusing on it any more than we have already in game itself is simply not necessary. It still is a part of major quest, and has at least one zone entirely dedicated to showcase the devastation of it.

 

And Adamant is a single battle alright, but battles don't happen in a vacuum - usually they're the result of war; in that particular case, the war between manipulated, fear-driven Wardens who unwittingly serve Corypheus and Inquisition forces.

[Saphiron123]

I thought this thread was about the Orlesian Civil War. Because despite all the buildup around it (including an entire novel) we pretty much just show up at the tale end when everyone's too tired to fight anymore, then divvy up the spoils based on who we think is most worthy after interacting with them for 30 seconds at the Orlesian Ball.

 

EDIT: Adamant? I don't think that was an actual war so much as an assault on the fortress. You raise an army to storm the castle, you storm the castle, you corner the perpetrators, a dragon tries to eat you all, you rip a hole in the Fade, you come back, assault on the fortress over.

It's about the demon war, the orlesian war, the mages versus the templars... i don't think we got to see much of any of them really, instead we just hang out in forests, stabbing bears and junk.

[Wurm_king]

we don't even really get to see the war we are suppose to be waging against the venatori and red Templar (other then the initial assault on haven and if you try to recruit the Templars), I don't see why anyone is surprised by not getting to see the mage Templar war or the civil war. but like most of you I to am disappointed at the handling of both these wars. though in truth part of the reason we don't see the mage-Templar war is because it was suppose to be DLC for DA2, but do to low sales and general dislike of the game, they pulled it from development.

 

but overall most of the story elements from this game feel miss handled, from the impact of previous games to being able to keep track of your party approval, to the wars that are suppose to be happening all around you.

 

personally I think that bioware should rerelease this game only on ps4 and xbox1 as a re-mastered version with all the stuff cut so that it could be played on last gen consoles at a steep discount if you bought the original version for the next gen consol.

[midnight tea]

Yes... because having all kinds of quests and unlockable areas or war table missions filled with Red Templas or Venatori agents to kill or neutralize, including entire layered quests (from tracking and shutting red lyrium mines to stopping Empress assassination attempts or insane Grey Warden plans) is totally NOT 'waging war' on them. Honestly, with everything we do to thwart them I have no idea what else you're expecting - Venatori and Templars barging into Skyhold to let out a collective, evil cackle and then have the game transformed into a COD-like shooting gallery?

 

Also - we CAN track party approval, it's just not as simple as watching artificial numbers. You approach them and talk with them - the way they greet you or things they talk about indicates their attitude towards you. It's kinda similar to how it's in real life, you know?

[4everbubslover]

There are a lot of alcoholism problems in this game.

[Dobby]

^ I like your boobs.

[Rolhir]

Are there any instances in DAI where you see more than, say, 20 active NPCs on the screen at once?  By active I mean actually fighting, and not just looping some animation in the background.

So much this! This plus the war table missions replacing the side quest dialogue are the big disconnect I believe. We see at Haven that Corypheous has probably thousands pouring into the valley. If by the end of the game we should be able to match him, why do we never see an army or even a group of soldiers beyond the size of our party? The gameplay was fine, but the ambience was lacking. Even if we didn't get to control anything or even see much large scale conflict, seeing our army facing Corypheous would have made a big difference as for the feel. For instance, if the final battle included one extra cutscene where we marched on the Temple of Sacred Ashes with our army and found Corypheous there with his and then the game proceeded the way it does now...soooo much better. Even though it doesn't let us bring our army, we get to see it instead of hear about it.

[turuzzusapatuttu]

There are a lot of alcoholism problems in this game.

 

Not only in this game, from what I've seen on this forum...

 

^ I like your boobs.

 

So do I.

[Nefla]

 

 

 

Oh, they did SHOW war and effects of it... problem is, that for some people (it seems) showing war means LITERALLY showing it in the simplest way people imagine it, that is - tons of people killing one another. That, hun, would be telling rather than showing, ironically.

 

It's really sad to see that doing anything subtler than armies battling one another (though it's not like we don't have fairly long battle sequences: Haven, Adamant, templars and mages fighting one another in Hinterlands, etc) and focusing more on effects of war (destroyed landscapes, gruesome, decimated corpses, refugees, people complaining at war, doing all kinds of quests that deal with stabilizing the region) apparently constitutes "NOT SHOWING US ENOUGH!"

 

Oh please...

 

*Puts on hipster glasses* "It's not poor quality, it's just too deep for you to understand." Riiight...

[midnight tea]

Well it seems that it is, in fact, "too deep for you to understand", if childish mockery is the only argument you can muster up, sweetheart.

[Nefla]

Well it seems that it is, in fact, "too deep for you to understand", if childish mockery is the only argument you can muster up, sweetheart.

Yes, that must be it dear.

[midnight tea]

Well it's definitely NOT you having anything even half-intelligent to add here. Keep trying to be smug though - maybe one day you'll get it.

The ironic thing is that I've never claimed that it's 'too deep to understand'; my argument is the exact opposite. It's not really that hard to understand or notice - which is why I find claims of 'there's no war or effects of it shown in the game!' to be unsubstantiated.

[CDR Aedan Cousland]

Well it's definitely NOT you having anything even half-intelligent to add here. Keep trying to be smug though - maybe one day you'll get it.

The ironic thing is that I've never claimed that it's 'too deep to understand'; my argument is the exact opposite. It's not really that hard to understand or notice - which is why I find claims of 'there's no war or effects of it shown in the game!' as anything other than unsubstantiated.

 

Each exchange you make in this thread is just making you look worse. Nothing here necessitated that attitude. Basically, I recommend stowing the superiority complex and the ironic term of endearment usage.

[midnight tea]

Your patronizing tone doesn't make you look any better. And I'd like you to scroll up and pay attention to what actually happened in the thread - the conversation was perfectly civil and on-topic until my stance was strawmanned and mocked... I'd also hardly call my attitude the one that's problematic here. I can think of far worse things than using a single endearment and a bit of snark - especially against a person who obviously came here to snark at me and add nothing else... Such offense, really! Call the SWAT team!

 

And honestly - this has nothing to do with superiority, but simple fairness towards the game and the way it tells the story. If people want to argue that the game should have more battles or focused quests or other means to show war and its effects - fine with me! We can agree or disagree about it. But claims like the ones in the title of this thread (or the showing/telling thing) are pretty easy to refute.

[Elhanan]

Each exchange you make in this thread is just making you look worse. Nothing here necessitated that attitude. Basically, I recommend stowing the superiority complex and the ironic term of endearment usage.

Disagree. Midnight_tea's posts actually indicating the appearance of War in ways that go beyond actual placement of lag inducing troops on the field seem to rather spot on, IMO. And as typical, those opposing a POV with which they disagree prefer to use taunts, ridicule, etc. rather than actually defend their stance.

The War Table, Codex, cut-scenes, dialogue, and like story-telling methods all appear to support the notion of a War; including the ones actually presented on the field in game.

[Sartoz]

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It's for war in general... I mean, why would Orlesian War be a central focus of the Inquisition, when the story is about a threat and conflict that goes beyond mage-templar squabbles, or that of Celene and Gaspard? This is exactly why we read about it mostly in the book. You can pick it and let it influence your in-game decision later, but focusing on it any more than we have already in game itself is simply not necessary. It still is a part of major quest, and has at least one zone entirely dedicated to showcase the devastation of it.

 

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Snip

 

 

 

                                                                                                 <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

 

This war you speak of is not really manifested in the game. Sure, I understand the Lore and the books and the graphic novels (I have them).  Rather, the game gives the original themes of Civil War, Mage-Templar battles...etc a token visual and story quest. Personally, I expected more in-depth mini-game.

 

Alas, expected content was cut from the game and Artistic Director Mike Laidlaw admits as much. Some due to old-gen hardware limitations and others to "game-flow" reasons.

 

If you wish to bone up on this.. read the March 2015 interview with Laidlaw and eurogamer.net here:

http://www.eurogamer...s-of-dragon-age

[midnight tea]

I've already mentioned that to a comment to another person, but OK  - the wars you speak of (civil war, mage-templar conflict) are a background for the Inquisition, not its main focus: this is exactly why you'll find more details on it in additional material for games (books, comics, etc).

 

Still, it's simply unfair to claim that they got 'a token visual and story quest' - we have a multitude of quests dealing with either war or the aftermath of it and entire zones dedicated to showing its effect on the world. And that's on top of Inquisition having to deal with the ancient magister and his horde, sealing the Breach, gathering allies and slowly unfolding mysteries of lost civilization and its legendary figures, among other things (I'm not even counting in companions and their input into the game).

 

To put it simply - from a story, quest or visual side, there's not really that much they could add. Even the maligned fetch-quests - a large portion of them is all about dealing with results of war: finding food source and supplies for the refugees, dealing with bandits and renegades who either work with our enemy or threaten the local populace, helping the Imperial army regain control over an area infested by demons and rebel groups, et caetera.

 

Now, if we're talking from game-play perspective, I could at least somewhat agree with you - it would be fun to have some more strategic options when stabilizing the region, for example, other than occupying the keeps and doing war table missions or quests. We both know however (as we've both read the same article) why it was done - and with the limitations they had to work with, personally I think they did a decent job.

Also, in that review, Laidlaw says that they don't rule out revisiting and exploring systems they didn't implement or managed to implement partially. And while I think everybody is now hungry for story and character-centered DLC now, we may not yet entirely exclude the possibility that we might get some expansion that adds new elements to the game-play. 

[Saphiron123]

I've already mentioned that to a comment to another person, but OK  - the wars you speak of (civil war, mage-templar conflict) are a background for the Inquisition, not its main focus: this is exactly why you'll find more details on it in additional material for games (books, comics, etc).

 

Still, it's simply unfair to claim that they got 'a token visual and story quest' - we have a multitude of quests dealing with either war or the aftermath of it and entire zones dedicated to showing its effect on the world. And that's on top of Inquisition having to deal with the ancient magister and his horde, sealing the Breach, gathering allies and slowly unfolding mysteries of lost civilization and its legendary figures, among other things (I'm not even counting in companions and their input into the game).

 

To put it simply - from a story, quest or visual side, there's not really that much they could add. Even the maligned fetch-quests - a large portion of them is all about dealing with results of war: finding food source and supplies for the refugees, dealing with bandits and renegades who either work with our enemy or threaten the local populace, helping the Imperial army regain control over an area infested by demons and rebel groups, et caetera.

 

Now, if we're talking from game-play perspective, I could at least somewhat agree with you - it would be fun to have some more strategic options when stabilizing the region, for example, other than occupying the keeps and doing war table missions or quests. We both know however (as we've both read the same article) why it was done - and with the limitations they had to work with, personally I think they did a decent job.

Also, in that review, Laidlaw says that they don't rule out revisiting and exploring systems they didn't implement or managed to implement partially. And while I think everybody is now hungry for story and character-centered DLC now, we may not yet entirely exclude the possibility that we might get some expansion that adds new elements to the game-play. 

I shouldn't have to read comics and books to see at least a good chunk of the conflicts this game is about... the game should offer it. Maybe instead of the awful fetch questing and mineral gathering.