280 réponses à ce sujet

[midnight tea]

Please read what I've written more carefully - I said that civil war or mage-templar conflict is a background for Inquisition, and not its major focus. I never said "if you want to know anything about them, go read books". Books and comics are a supplementary material you go for details and additional info or story arcs.

But there's more than enough in the game to figure out what's going on - Inquisition was my first Bioware game, I didn't read any comics or books or played DAO or DAII before it, yet I wasn't confused.

 

Also - have you missed the part where I point out that a substantial part of these 'fetch-quests' were pretty much entirely about dealing with results of war? Oh sure, if you don't pay attention to journals or listen to NPCs while doing those quests it's hard not to miss - only if you don't do it, nearly every quest in every RPG ever becomes a fetch quest.

[Rawgrim]

Please read what I've written more carefully - I said that civil war or mage-templar conflict is a background for Inquisition, and not its major focus. I never said "if you want to know anything about them, go read books". Books and comics are a supplementary material you go for details and additional info or story arcs.

But there's more than enough in the game to figure out what's going on - Inquisition was my first Bioware game, I didn't read any comics or books or played DAO or DAII before it, yet I wasn't confused.

 

Also - have you missed the part where I point out that a substantial part of these 'fetch-quests' were pretty much entirely about dealing with results of war? Oh sure, if you don't pay attention to journals or listen to NPCs while doing those quests it's hard not to miss - only if you don't do it, nearly every quest in every RPG ever becomes a fetch quest.

 

Most rpgs add a small story or some backround to the "fetch quests" though. "I lost my ring". Followed by "Thank you" when the quest is done, does leave something to be desired.

[Elhanan]

Most rpgs add a small story or some backround to the "fetch quests" though. "I lost my ring". Followed by "Thank you" when the quest is done, does leave something to be desired.

So skip it; I did the second time around, as it was secondary to that Inq. And it seems that the same minor quests keep being exemplified, yet I still find these far more enjoyable than returning ripped trousers and the like as in the prequel. For my own gameplay, DAI is more enjoyable to play than DA2, though it does take much longer to complete a campaign.

Also, banter heard from these minor quests also fills in details concerning the War; just trying to keep this OT.

[Rawgrim]

So skip it; I did the second time around, as it was secondary to that Inq. And it seems that the same minor quests keep being exemplified, yet I still find these far more enjoyable than returning ripped trousers and the like as in the prequel. For my own gameplay, DAI is more enjoyable to play than DA2, though it does take much longer to complete a campaign.

Also, banter heard from these minor quests also fills in details concerning the War; just trying to keep this OT.

 

The minor quests, a you call them are actually chores. And they are brought up as examples because they ended up being 90 percent of the game's content.

 

When you first play Inquisition you don't know if they should be skipped. Given that you need to raise the power level of the inquisition and all that. + You don't know if the questgiver will give you a large quest instead of a "fetch me some flowers" chore wen you walk up to him.

 

During a second playthrough, when you now what the side chores are all about, you can skip all of them for sure. It would only take you 12-15 hours to play through the game if you do that, of course, but yes.

[Dieb]

Most rpgs add a small story or some backround to the "fetch quests" though. "I lost my ring". Followed by "Thank you" when the quest is done, does leave something to be desired.

 

To be fair, the Hinterlands one is about the ring getting taken from an Elven farmer by rogue Templars because they just assumed he was an apostate mage and slew him for it. I furthermore appreciated that she didn't even ask you to go get the ring, you just do and surprise her with it. It's sort of believeable, doesn't seem too constructed, and it's well tied-in with the area plot.

 

Most side quests in DAO were mechanically "get stuff from point A (by killing individual C there) to person B", and were sugarcoated with a nice side story. DAI has these interesting side stories in more instances than generally given credit for IMO, but it all still falls flat, if the prompt remains a random event that doesn't interrupt your roaming pace in any way.

 

What I'm saying is, some quests of the "minor" variety would have been just as good if only they'd been orchestrated a little better; be it just the classic dialogue camera angle.

[Elhanan]

The minor quests, a you call them are actually chores. And they are brought up as examples because they ended up being 90 percent of the game's content.
 
When you first play Inquisition you don't know if they should be skipped. Given that you need to raise the power level of the inquisition and all that. + You don't know if the questgiver will give you a large quest instead of a "fetch me some flowers" chore wen you walk up to him.
 
During a second playthrough, when you now what the side chores are all about, you can skip all of them for sure. It would only take you 12-15 hours to play through the game if you do that, of course, but yes.

Again with the imagined stats....

Be it the first session or not, if one finds a side-quest unappealing, then it can be skipped; seems rather obvious to this Ancient gamer. The Bottles of Thedas is an exception, but it is a single collection quest. And a selling point of the game is being able to walk away from quest givers. And Power can be gained in so many ways that it is also obvious that side-quests are optional, as was the case in the prior games.

Perhaps if one stopped slamming their head into their Keyboard during gameplay as a demo for their illustrations, then they might actually regain some objectivity....

[Rawgrim]

Again with the imagined stats....

Be it the first session or not, if one finds a side-quest unappealing, then it can be skipped; seems rather obvious to this Ancient gamer. The Bottles of Thedas is an exception, but it is a single collection quest. And a selling point of the game is being able to walk away from quest givers. And Power can be gained in so many ways that it is also obvious that side-quests are optional, as was the case in the prior games.

Perhaps if one stopped slamming their head into their Keyboard during gameplay as a demo for their illustrations, then they might actually regain some objectivity....

 

Well why don't you try a playthrough where you only do the main quest, then. Skip all the fetch quest. See how many hours you clock in.

 

You don't know if a quest might branch out into something bigger. A lot of side quests in rpgs do that. They start off as a mundane task, but ends up growing in a whole questline with a story. Bioware even said each area in DA:I would feature a lot of story content. What is a customer to think about that?

 

Funny you should mention slamming heads against the keyboard. You can beat every fight in this game by doing so.

[Rawgrim]

To be fair, the Hinterlands one is about the ring getting taken from an Elven farmer by rogue Templars because they just assumed he was an apostate mage and slew him for it. I furthermore appreciated that she didn't even ask you to go get the ring, you just do and surprise her with it. It's sort of believeable, doesn't seem too constructed, and it's well tied-in with the area plot.

 

Most side quests in DAO were mechanically "get stuff from point A (by killing individual C there) to person B", and were sugarcoated with a nice side story. DAI has these interesting side stories in more instances than generally given credit for IMO, but it all still falls flat, if the prompt remains a random event that doesn't interrupt your roaming pace in any way.

 

What I'm saying is, some quests of the "minor" variety would have been just as good if only they'd been orchestrated a little better; be it just the classic dialogue camera angle.

 

Those were the boardquests in DA:O. Those were fetch, quests, yes. Absolutely. But if you look at the Bresillian Forest, for example. Almost all of the side quests there had ther own story, you could solve them differently, and they had some sort of consequence. The side quests in DA:I can be solved only one way. By fetching and delivering. The Crestwood area is an exception. That area actually had some good side quests.

[JadeDragon]

I remember the Blackstone quest in DA:O what at first seemed like a normal fetch quest series ended with you having to side how you wanted to end the quest chain and choose who there leader was. Mage Collective also had two final choices you can chooses from at the end. While nothing major these "fetch quest" at least had not only there own story but quest chain that connected them all.

[Elhanan]

Well why don't you try a playthrough where you only do the main quest, then. Skip all the fetch quest. See how many hours you clock in.
 
You don't know if a quest might branch out into something bigger. A lot of side quests in rpgs do that. They start off as a mundane task, but ends up growing in a whole questline with a story. Bioware even said each area in DA:I would feature a lot of story content. What is a customer to think about that?
 
Funny you should mention slamming heads against the keyboard. You can beat every fight in this game by doing so.

As one that actually realizes that not all Side-quests are fetch quests, I almost would take that challenge. But I already skip enough material on my own for RP and personal preferences; still have 585 hrs for gameplay.

But you are correct about one thing; one skipping such side-quests may never know that the recipients actually might discuss the War, the Inquisition, etc.

[Rawgrim]

As one that actually realizes that not all Side-quests are fetch quests, I almost would take that challenge. But I already skip enough material on my own for RP and personal preferences; still have 585 hrs for gameplay.

But you are correct about one thing; one skipping such side-quests may never know that the recipients actually might discuss the War, the Inquisition, etc.

 

Since it took you 585 hours to complete the game. Can you name me 5 side quests that have a semi-fleshed out story to them, and that can be solved in more than one way? Skipping the quest doesn't count.

[Il Divo]

Again with the imagined stats....

Be it the first session or not, if one finds a side-quest unappealing, then it can be skipped; seems rather obvious to this Ancient gamer. The Bottles of Thedas is an exception, but it is a single collection quest. And a selling point of the game is being able to walk away from quest givers. And Power can be gained in so many ways that it is also obvious that side-quests are optional, as was the case in the prior games.

Perhaps if one stopped slamming their head into their Keyboard during gameplay as a demo for their illustrations, then they might actually regain some objectivity....

 

I don't hate DA:I's side quests to the extent that others do, but if someone tells you they find the entire format unappealing, saying "just skip it" is foolish. The point of buying a product is to derive maximum enjoyment from it, not to ignore half the game's content. 

[Koneko Koji]

The other thing that really irks me about a lot of these fetch quests is that as was pointed out earlier, you don't get asked to do them - you speak to the NPC (when you're not picking up random bits of paper) and they tell you what's going on ... and that's it, they don't ask you to do it, and most of the time you don't even need to return to them to let them know you've finished - it's this aspect for me that tanks the fetch quests, the almost complete removal of interaction with the NPC's and the limited (mostly linear) way you can do things.

[Elhanan]

I don't hate DA:I's side quests to the extent that others do, but if someone tells you they find the entire format unappealing, saying "just skip it" is foolish. The point of buying a product is to derive maximum enjoyment from it, not to ignore half the game's content.

I agree to some extent, but pigeon-holing almost the entire side-quest content to 'Fetch quest' status is inaccurate and misleading. If one finds side-quests as a whole unappealing, perhaps they should avoid such RPG's in the first place.

Now I skip some materials because I dislike it (eg; Jumping puzzles, Bottles quest), but also due to RP, as it fails to fit that character. I made the error of trying almost everything in Skyrim the first time, and that DB storyline resulted in a poor tale. In DAI, I still have yet to raise a dead grandpa, kill a possessed ram, raze an Elven graveyard, etc as both Inquisitors were more noble in character.

But having to skip main storylines, avoid NPC's, escape from cut-scenes, etc is annoying; had to do some of this myself in DAI. Yet that is exactly what I an informed to do with TW3 concerning objectionable content (including some of these same folks); choose to pass on the game instead. Taking my own advise, as it were....

[RMP _]

No Bioware game is worse at depicting a war the player hardly sees than the original NWN campaign. Anyone else remember  being sent a mission to collect some "stones of power" or some such nonsense while just being told how the front line fighting  was going? Supposedly we needed to keep the bad guys from finding these things and once we finished that mission, it was the last we heard about it. That was NWN in a nutshell (easily Bioware's worst game).

Back then I thought, oh well whatever, 3D is fairly new, they can't do big battles yet. Maybe in a few years when the computing power catches up. Well, it's about 12 years later and Bioware still doesn't give us any large scale battles in any of the games about war. It's just never going to happen.

[Elhanan]

No Bioware game is worse at depicting a war the player hardly sees than the original NWN campaign. Anyone else remember  being sent a mission to collect some "stones of power" or some such nonsense while just being told how the front line fighting  was going? Supposedly we needed to keep the bad guys from finding these things and once we finished that mission, it was the last we heard about it. That was NWN in a nutshell (easily Bioware's worst game).

Back then I thought, oh well whatever, 3D is fairly new, they can't do big battles yet. Maybe in a few years when the computing power catches up. Well, it's about 12 years later and Bioware still doesn't give us any large scale battles in any of the games about war. It's just never going to happen.

Says the one with ME3 under the Avatar.



If the practice keeps the FPS stable rather than CTD like some other gaming attempts, am fine with seeing a few catapults and other placeables substitute for NPC's.

[Solace]

War....war never changes.

[Sartoz]

I don't hate DA:I's side quests to the extent that others do, but if someone tells you they find the entire format unappealing, saying "just skip it" is foolish. The point of buying a product is to derive maximum enjoyment from it, not to ignore half the game's content. 

Interesting viewpoint...

 

If you wish to understand Mike Laidlaw's take on these quests, please read the link below, from a 2015 interview with EUROGAMER.NET. It's a bit wordy, but interesting nevertheless, as it also touches on why game content was cut.

 

"Laidlaw says he has seen the complaints from fans about the number of collectable side-quests and "doesn't disagree".

 

But, he argues, there is no need for players to actually complete all of those quests, just because they are in the game. And there isn't, technically, in that they are not required to trigger a perfect ending or even reach the end at all. But then again, they are there.."

 

source:  http://www.eurogamer...s-of-dragon-age

[CDR Aedan Cousland]

Interesting viewpoint...

 

If you wish to understand Mike Laidlaw's take on these quests, please read the link below, from a 2015 interview with EUROGAMER.NET. It's a bit wordy, but interesting nevertheless, as it also touches on why game content was cut.

 

"Laidlaw says he has seen the complaints from fans about the number of collectable side-quests and "doesn't disagree".

 

But, he argues, there is no need for players to actually complete all of those quests, just because they are in the game. And there isn't, technically, in that they are not required to trigger a perfect ending or even reach the end at all. But then again, they are there.."

 

source:  http://www.eurogamer...s-of-dragon-age

 

Ugh, if you don't expect most of your players to actually do certain content, why even put it in the game in the first place? Sounds like backpedaling to me. It'd be nice if they could flat-out own up to their poor decisions for a change.

[Saphiron123]

The minor quests, a you call them are actually chores. And they are brought up as examples because they ended up being 90 percent of the game's content.

 

When you first play Inquisition you don't know if they should be skipped. Given that you need to raise the power level of the inquisition and all that. + You don't know if the questgiver will give you a large quest instead of a "fetch me some flowers" chore wen you walk up to him.

 

During a second playthrough, when you now what the side chores are all about, you can skip all of them for sure. It would only take you 12-15 hours to play through the game if you do that, of course, but yes.

This. DAO and DA2 had fetch quests and chorse too, sure, every game does... in DAI though, they're the majority of your playtime. That's the problem.

[Rawgrim]

This. DAO and DA2 had fetch quests and chorse too, sure, every game does... in DAI though, they're the majority of your playtime. That's the problem.

 

I know. Every rpg has them to some extent. Its usually something that gets thrown in after the main quest + side quests are in place, to add to the playtime, really.

[threamcloud]

Well, my opinion has already been said by so many people around here.

To sum it up, this game is the most beautiful but souless DA game I've ever played.

Bioware sacrifices all of the DA best things (the tactic, the story, the drama) for just one thing: visual effect.

 

People who protect it, protect it all you want. However, I double dare you to replay this game in like several years later, and still have the patience to going through all the tedious, boring quests with this "open" world. I can do that, with DAO, even DA2, and many other games because they are truly great games.

That's what visual games are for. They are good for the eye at the moment, then some minutes later they are forgotten.

I'm not saying that it's a poor choice. I bet they make tons of money through those kinds of games. 

however, if that's the path bioware choosing, then I and many other players have to bid farewell.

 

My english is not good, but I think you may understand my point.

[Rawgrim]

Well, my opinion has already been said by so many people around here.

To sum it up, this game is the most beautiful but souless DA game I've ever played.

Bioware sacrifices all of the DA best things (the tactic, the story, the drama) for just one thing: visual effect.

 

People who protect it, protect it all you want. However, I double dare you to replay this game in like several years later, and still have the patience to going through all the tedious, boring quests with this "open" world. I can do that, with DAO, even DA2, and many other games because they are truly great games.

That's what visual games are for. They are good for the eye at the moment, then some minutes later they are forgotten.

I'm not saying that it's a poor choice. I bet they make tons of money through those kinds of games. 

however, if that's the path bioware choosing, then I and many other players have to bid farewell.

 

My english is not good, but I think you may understand my point.

 

Your english is very very good. It doesn't even show that its not your first language.

[threamcloud]

Your english is very very good. It doesn't even show that its not your first language.

tks hehe, but I read it again and still find out many grammar/spelling errors which my English teacher would not like.

Moreover, my vocabulary is limited so I can only use the common words I know to describe things.

[Il Divo]

Interesting viewpoint...

 

If you wish to understand Mike Laidlaw's take on these quests, please read the link below, from a 2015 interview with EUROGAMER.NET. It's a bit wordy, but interesting nevertheless, as it also touches on why game content was cut.

 

"Laidlaw says he has seen the complaints from fans about the number of collectable side-quests and "doesn't disagree".

 

But, he argues, there is no need for players to actually complete all of those quests, just because they are in the game. And there isn't, technically, in that they are not required to trigger a perfect ending or even reach the end at all. But then again, they are there.."

 

source:  http://www.eurogamer...s-of-dragon-age

 

Yeah, I've heard about that. To me it's ludicrous as a consumer to take that perspective.

 

That's not to say that I love every feature ever incorporated in games that I count among my favorites, but as more of those (negative) features are implemented, the less you're likely to enjoy the experience.

 

DA:I has more than enough content to keep me satisfied, but I think there's a lot of room for improvement too.