45 réponses à ce sujet

[Walter1968]

Do they worship any deities? 

I can't remember any mention of them having deities.

It doesn't sound like they are ruled by priests, either.

 

It seems to me, that it's more of a philosophy ... like Buddhism, or Utopianism.

 

 

[AlexiaRevan]

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Qun

[Walter1968]

Thanks ... that answers most of my questions.

 

One it doesn't is ... have any Tal-Vashoth tried to return to their ancestral homeland, where the Kossith are?

If so ... what reception do they get?

 

The most important one is ... what deity (or deities) DO they worship?

[AlexiaRevan]

I dont think they worship a deity . More like their whole society follow a book and a set of rules and law and in a way they are their own God . If they worship a God..I never heard it mentioned...so far .

 

I honestly can't give ya the answers , since I never liked their beliefs and dont bother reading about them ...maybe someone else can answer and give ya what ya want

[Neon Rising Winter]

Religions don't require deities. Well unless you've decided to take the definition from a dictionary. You don't want to do that. I could walk 10 minutes down the road and find myself outside the door of one that cheerfully embraces atheists.

[Red of Rivia]

Communism.

[Dragonzzilla]

It's a way of living. They do not believe invisible men telling them what to do.

[Rekkampum]

Thanks ... that answers most of my questions.

 

One it doesn't is ... have any Tal-Vashoth tried to return to their ancestral homeland, where the Kossith are?

If so ... what reception do they get?

 

The most important one is ... what deity (or deities) DO they worship?

 

We'll just have to see. Given how the Qunari pretty much fled the Kossith, I doubt even Tal-Vashoth would find any interest in returning there. It has been noted by Gaider that the Qun isn't an atheistic philosophy though.

[ComedicSociopathy]

It's a way of living. They do not believe invisible men telling them what to do.

 

You the great thing about having invisible, mute gods be the ones to tell you what to do. 

 

The ability to interpret to their messages serve your purposes without any worry of rebuttal.

 

Religion is like capitalism, awesome when your the one on top.  

[Ashagar]

The answer to your question is it both. Something you see more of in Asia than you do in the west, also religion doesn't require the belief in gods, there are several eastern religions that have no belief gods in their religion.

[DarkDragon777]

The Qun is so super cool and intellectual that it transcends these distinctions of "philosophy and religion" that puny mortal minds create. 

[Nimlowyn]

Religion can be surprisingly difficult to define. I was an anthropology major for a while in college, and I was taught that religions are defined as systems organized around a supernatural power; without a supernatural power of some kind, then it is not considered a religion by anthropology. (I was also taught that Buddhism is considered a religion because it picked up regional gods as it traveled outside India). That said, I'd wager you'd have arguments within anthropology, let alone outside it, but that's what I was taught anyway. 

 

To my knowledge, we don't know if there are any supernatural tenants inherent in the Qun, if Koslun is considered an enlightened being (if memory serves me from DA2 codices his story certainly resembles the Buddha) or has some sort of supernatural quality (or both). Personally, I'm comfortable considering the Qun a religion regardless of Koslun's status, because the people of Thedas appear to consider it one. 

 

Edited for grammar and clarity.

[the Dame]

In my understanding, the Qun similar to Bushidō. 

It's the way of life.

[Eliastion]

Qun is a religion/philosophy based on the idea of universal/natural order of things that needs to be maintained for even small personal-scale upsetting of the balance affects the larger whole (meaning: Qunari feel that every non-Qunari is making the world unbalanced by his very existance outside of the Qun teachings). They don't revere any gods, but they do acknowledge existance of spirits and they do believe in life after death (as we know they believe Fade to be the realm of the dead). They claim that Qunari don't dream, at least not by venturing into Fade in their dreams, but that one is tricky - I don't think we know what's their stance on dreaming by those non-qunari qunari (that is, converts and their descendants). Also, we don't know if there is any truth to it, it could just as well be some BS, seeing as Qunari mages exist, which seems to imply "standard" connection to the Fade.

It should also be noted that Qunari are ruled/governed by their all-female priesthood and other than them, they supposedly have in most cases only limited understanding of their own religion - they're taught the parts that are deemed important for their role in society.

 

The classification of Qun as religion is made a bit harder by the Qunari themselves, who claim that they don't "believe" in Qun but "understand" it. Which in reality is just is one step further than standard "if you don't believe what I believe, you're wrong". Quite obviously, Qun is a system of beliefs concerning the nature of the world and the way people are supposed to interact with it and live in it. Despite it claiming to not be a religion and not worshiping any personified gods, one could well interpret their beliefs as deification of the balance/order itself - the guiding force (Nature of every single thing, being indeed just part of bigger Nature of the world itself) is there in their teachings despite it not being a person.

The classification of Qun as religion or philosophy generally boils down to definition of the former, made even more complicated by existance of supernatural beings of many sorts being a fact rather than a matter of faith (in our world revering spirits from world of dreams would definitely be a religion - in Thedas it could be considered about as religious as attempts at making friends with your weird neighbor). I believe classifying Qun as religion is a good idea as it is simply organized as one. But if you believe that religion needs gods (and the idea of natural order of the world being something of a god for Qunari doesn't cut it for you) you're welcome to call it an institutionalized philosophy or something along those lines. It's functionally the same either way.

[Silfren]

Do they worship any deities? 

I can't remember any mention of them having deities.

It doesn't sound like they are ruled by priests, either.

 

It seems to me, that it's more of a philosophy ... like Buddhism, or Utopianism.

 

First issue here is that you are working from the default assumption that Buddhism is not a religion.  That's not true.  It is.  Kind of hard to address the question of whether the Qun is or isn't a religion--I say it's a religion--when you've already presupposed an inaccurate definition by which to classify them.

[Farangbaa]

Religions don't require deities. Well unless you've decided to take the definition from a dictionary. You don't want to do that. I could walk 10 minutes down the road and find myself outside the door of one that cheerfully embraces atheists.

 

Did you really just say what I think you said?

 

Did you really just equate atheism with religion?

[Eliastion]

Did you really just say what I think you said?

 

Did you really just equate atheism with religion?

No he didn't. He said there are religions that embrace atheists. Though I'm pretty sure he meant "embrace atheism". Either way, I'm pretty sure you're getting worked up over nothing.

[Farangbaa]

No he didn't. He said there are religions that embrace atheists. Though I'm pretty sure he meant "embrace atheism". Either way, I'm pretty sure you're getting worked up over nothing.

 

Yeah I read what he said, but that didn't seem to make much sence.

[Ashagar]

Its not that shocking for instance Jainism believes the universe has always existed, will always exist and has no need for a supreme power to govern it.

 

Though as for atheism itself I have known a few atheists who have taken to it like religion including the need to ram their 'enlightened' view with all the will and self-righteousness of a fire and brimstone Christian fundamentalist down everyone else's throats, thankfully the majority of atheists I've meet aren't like that.

[Rekkampum]

Its not that shocking for instance Jainism believes the universe has always existed, will always exist and has no need for a supreme power to govern it.

 

Though as for atheism itself I have known a few atheists who have taken to it like religion including the need to ram their 'enlightened' view with all the will and self-righteousness of a fire and brimstone Christian fundamentalist down everyone else's throats, thankfully the majority of atheists I've meet aren't like that.

 

They believe those things but do not claim there are no deities in their religion. They in fact believe the universe is split into three parts: the realm of gods and spirits, a realm like hell, and the realm of mortals and other organisms.

[Walter1968]

First issue here is that you are working from the default assumption that Buddhism is not a religion.  That's not true.  It is.  Kind of hard to address the question of whether the Qun is or isn't a religion--I say it's a religion--when you've already presupposed an inaccurate definition by which to classify them.

 

From what I understand of Buddhism, it doesn't address whether or not there are deities ... and I view religion as requiring some sort of deity.

Of course, I don't know every Buddhist ... but those I *do* know, agree that it is a philosophy rather than a religion.

That's why I used it.  (not to start a debate on whether or not it is a religion, just explaining why I used it as I did)

 

But if it's a hang-up for you ... forget the comparison to Buddhism, and use the comparison to Utopianism.

[Rekkampum]

From what I understand of Buddhism, it doesn't address whether or not there are deities ... and I view religion as requiring some sort of deity.

Of course, I don't know every Buddhist ... but those I *do* know, agree that it is a philosophy rather than a religion.

That's why I used it.  (not to start a debate on whether or not it is a religion, just explaining why I used it as I did)

 

But if it's a hang-up for you ... forget the comparison to Buddhism, and use the comparison to Utopianism.

 

The Buddha believed that gods exist but are not necessarily wiser than humans because they were trapped in samsara. It's safe to say it can be considered both as there are different schools of it. At it's core it can be considered nontheistic to an extent.

On that note, there are many other nontheistic traditions like Jainism mentioned above(the universe isn't dependant on a Creator God and any gods change and die eventually)  and even some forms of Hinduism.

[Walter1968]

We'll just have to see. Given how the Qunari pretty much fled the Kossith, I doubt even Tal-Vashoth would find any interest in returning there. It has been noted by Gaider that the Qun isn't an atheistic philosophy though.

 

From the conversation with Iron Bull ... my impression was that the Qunari left because of their beliefs.

Kinda like how (StarTrek) the Romulans left Vulcan, because they didn't want to convert to the "way of logic".  (Qunari = Vulcans?)

We also know the Qunari are subject to selective breeding - which is why they don't look like Kossith (per IB).

But selective breeding takes a few generations for drastic change - so maybe the first "Tal-Vashoth" were allowed back, because they still looked the same.

For that matter, who's to say that there aren't Kossith crossing into Qun territory to join?

[I present Chuck Bass]

The Qun is a buncha sh*t.

[o Ventus]

Religions don't require deities. Well unless you've decided to take the definition from a dictionary. You don't want to do that. I could walk 10 minutes down the road and find myself outside the door of one that cheerfully embraces atheists.

If atheists are involved, then it isn't a religion. That's kind of the point of atheism.