135 réponses à ce sujet

[The_Elder_Scrolls_Khajiit]

ME2 sucks.

[Lumenadducere]

Flash_in_the_flesh wrote...

You mean reducing 12 levels per skill which differ only by adding +1-2% of irrelevancy, to only 4 levels that actually make a difference?

Or getting rid of 100+ armors which you never bothered to use?

ME1 and 2 is a shooter RPG. Deal with it. You knew it before the release.

There's other BW franchise made specifically for old-school RPG players.


Personally I'm a hardcore player, a veteran of BG1,2, Icewind Dale 1,2, Planescape: Torment, Arcanum, KotOR 1,2, Fallout 1,2 and many other classic cRPGs. I like ME. It's simplier but it doesn't mean it's worse. It's different. If you don't like this game, just don't buy it. But don't say that ME2 is dumber than ME1.

Just wanted to second this.  I like the change to meaningful upgrades instead of a bunch of minor ones, and the only real complaint I have is that you can't change it on the fly - but then again, if you're out on a mission I guess it does make more sense to leave with what you have in your loadout.  It's one of those realism vs. gameplay issues, and while it's a minor hindrance it makes sense to me.

[Surberus]

The_Elder_Scrolls_Khajiit wrote...

ME2 sucks.

Concise and to the point. But like most posts in a forum, completely useless tripe...

[Morph.hu]

Lumenadducere wrote...

Flash_in_the_flesh wrote...

You mean reducing 12 levels per skill which differ only by adding +1-2% of irrelevancy, to only 4 levels that actually make a difference?

Or getting rid of 100+ armors which you never bothered to use?

ME1 and 2 is a shooter RPG. Deal with it. You knew it before the release.

There's other BW franchise made specifically for old-school RPG players.


Personally I'm a hardcore player, a veteran of BG1,2, Icewind Dale 1,2, Planescape: Torment, Arcanum, KotOR 1,2, Fallout 1,2 and many other classic cRPGs. I like ME. It's simplier but it doesn't mean it's worse. It's different. If you don't like this game, just don't buy it. But don't say that ME2 is dumber than ME1.

Just wanted to second this.  I like the change to meaningful upgrades instead of a bunch of minor ones, and the only real complaint I have is that you can't change it on the fly - but then again, if you're out on a mission I guess it does make more sense to leave with what you have in your loadout.  It's one of those realism vs. gameplay issues, and while it's a minor hindrance it makes sense to me.

I aggree. It was DAMN boring, to empty my inventory, with pointless dozens of items, with lost of money and omni gel (at least we could skip the hacking with that though )
But really. Where does Role Playing say, that you need an inventory? I don't get it.

And about skills: its totally the same as in ME1, they just removed the small steps, and added a specialization to all skills (which I like). The only drawback is that you can't spend your points at every level up in higher levels, due to the required points for an upgrade.

Still, I won't call ME1-2 HC RPGs, but calling them "GoW in space" is just stupid.

[Sebiale]

*rolls eyes at thread*

[voltron001]

Instead of arguing the merits of the "RPG-ness" of Mass Effect 1 and 2. Can we please at least discuss the changes specifically. A lot of the stuff they took out I wouldn't even consider RPG elements... like driving around in the Mako (and scanning planets isn't anymore RPG-ish LOL). I think fans of the first game are just dissapointed because they're soooo many changes just here and there and why shouldn't they be dissapointed? The first game worked, the fans LIKED IT. So why go and change everything from the health bar to the inventory system to the way powers work (global cooldowns are icky). I just don't understand the logic behind serving somebody a pancake when they really liked your waffles...

[AlanC9]

No, but it would kill difficulty balancing IMO. I find that games that in games that let you build your own class it's all too easy to make god mode builds since the ludicrous number of combinations makes it extremely hard or devs to adjust difficulty. When it comes to rpgs I'm always going to want straight up classes.

QFT. classless systems are usually balancing nightmares-  you just can't control synergies unless the abilities players can pick from aren't very interesting.

[vesperknight]

It can't suck that bad if it allows you to play as a celebrity like Arnold the Terminator or Clint Eastwood. Check out my sig's link to get the customization codes for their faces!



Yes.. I'm shameless

[Terror_K]

voltron001 wrote...

I think fans of the first game are just dissapointed because they're soooo many changes just here and there and why shouldn't they be dissapointed? The first game worked, the fans LIKED IT. So why go and change everything from the health bar to the inventory system to the way powers work (global cooldowns are icky). I just don't understand the logic behind serving somebody a pancake when they really liked your waffles...

Because BioWare looked out there and realised more people liked pancakes than waffles, so they made a strange pancake shaped sort of like a waffle and hoped their old waffle fans didn't care enough or didn't realise. Now that it's worked, I suspect we'll be seeing far more pancakes from BioWare than waffles. Seems more than 10 years of loyal waffle purchasing isn't good enough anymore when there's more money in pancakes.

[AlbertoAquilani]

I think we need to keep it all in one thread, the forum is saturated with these types, it's really getting annoying and the forum is almost unreadable. Can't someone just create an official 'feedback' thread or something?

[Dethateer]

To gain a significant boost for an ability of your choice in ME1, you had to advance 5 or so levels. What do you have to do to get the same in ME2? Oh, yeah, gain some levels. It's the same goddamned thing, without the utterly pointless 0.1 second boost do duration for each point you added.

[SolemnProphet]

josh42426 wrote...

Hardcore rpg fans are no longer welcome in the Mass effect trilogy. Bioware have dumbed down the rpg aspects of mass effect entirely with the sequel and instead opted for a game that will have a wider appeal. Its a very sad day when a rpg developer like bioware wants to appeal to the call of duty generation. Seems we will just have to hope for dragon age now because mass effect is for EVERYONE. Am I the only hardcore rpg fan on these forums or does everbody else like the dumber, simpler mass effect.

Yeah, you're old, and it shows. What, the game has some action and suddenly, IT'S NOT AN RPG! Mass Effect wasn't great for the combat. It was the story. And ME2 continues that story. So shut up and let them tell their goddamn story.

[Kwonnern]

josh42426 wrote...

Hardcore rpg fans are no longer welcome in the Mass effect trilogy. Bioware have dumbed down the rpg aspects of mass effect entirely with the sequel and instead opted for a game that will have a wider appeal. Its a very sad day when a rpg developer like bioware wants to appeal to the call of duty generation. Seems we will just have to hope for dragon age now because mass effect is for EVERYONE.

Which is a good thing. Everyone is welcome.

[SolemnProphet]

josh42426 wrote...

Hardcore rpg fans are no longer welcome in the Mass effect trilogy. Bioware have dumbed down the rpg aspects of mass effect entirely with the sequel and instead opted for a game that will have a wider appeal. Its a very sad day when a rpg developer like bioware wants to appeal to the call of duty generation. Seems we will just have to hope for dragon age now because mass effect is for EVERYONE. Am I the only hardcore rpg fan on these forums or does everbody else like the dumber, simpler mass effect.

Cultist jackasses like you are what destroy the genre. Bioware's making new strides and honing their skills with every game they make. This is a game where the combat doesn't suck AND the story's good. Go figure, you hate it. If you had your way, no one would be able to experience the beauty that is the Mass Effect universe. Let the industry grow, and throw your hate somewhere else.

[PingoBlack]

ME1 was a shooter with some RPG elements.



It's like crying rain is wet, for Pete's sake ... People spamming these forums like this game was announced as DA:O hack and slasher, but then served you assault rifles ...



Pathetic.

[Racan]

Seriously how many "I hate Mass Effect 2" threads do we need? This is getting ridiculous.

[TuringPoint]

I'm on the "pro ME2" side...



But they kinda did change the sequel too much.



That said, I can't imagine why anyone would think ME1 was a hardcore RPG. Fallout 3 trumped it for character sheet development, and Fallout 3 was almost devoid of any other RPG element - except exploration and questing.

[LordGarm]

Ok...

You say you're an hardcore RPG player but you only became disappointed with the Mass Effect franchise after playing the sequel. Did you play Mass Effect 1 at all?



Is it that hard to comprehend that Bioware wants to create games that are outside of the traditional RPG?

[GHOST OF FRUITY]

An RPG by it's very nature is following a story - filling the shoes of a character and making it your own. Stats, loot and inventories are a simple gameplay mechanic. Just because a game doesn't make these elements the prevailing priority doesn't mean a game isn't an RPG.

I loved Mass Effect, but it was the story and interacting with that story that I loved - not fiddling about with stats and collecting an infinate number of identical rifles or tungsten ammo. And ME2 has immersed me in it's story perhaps even more so than the first game did, despite streamlining some of the more stat based elements.

The changes to the gameplay will be divisive of course, and not everyone will like the direction ME2 has taken - but games need to open themselves up to as many gamers as is possible in this day and age. Creating games is hugely expensive, so games need to be profitable in order for games companies to survive - and sometimes changes must be made in order for a game to appeal to the majority. Not everyone will like that, but it's good common sense. How many games studios have gone under simply because the games they made only appealed to a niche audience?

I know many that wanted to love the first Mass Effect but found the non story based aspects (like the mako and the poor inventory system) a real issue. ME2 is an RPG because it does brilliantly what RPG's are supposed to be about - telling the story and making the gamer feel a part of it. And if making the changes Bioware has made to ME2 helps the game become the huge success it deserves to be, then i'm all for it. I might not fully agree with every change made, but I can see the reasoning for doing so.

The characters and story is what makes Mass Effect 2 the role playing game it is, at least to me.

Modifié par GHOST OF FRUITY, 27 janvier 2010 - 11:35 .

[Captain Jazz]

Come on guys, some of you are complaining that Mass Effect is no longer something that it never was - it has never been a hardcore rpg. It'll never be like fallout or neverwinter nights, because it's something different.
I adore the old hardcore rpgs and I wish someone would bring out a new one (no, I don't mean DA:O, as that is not a hardcore rpg either... I do love DA:O, but it's not a 'proper' rpg) but that doesn't mean that every rpg out there has to mould itself to the world as created by the almighty Gygax, if it did, what would be the point?

I don't have ME2 yet... I'm hoping it'll be arriving tomorrow, but I for one am going to be admiring it for what it is, not getting pissy over what it never was and hopefully never will be (can you imagine rolling for a headshot on a geth 200 metres away??).
I'm not saying "love it or gtfo!" but if you don't like action rpgs... why did you buy it?

Terror_K wrote...

voltron001 wrote...

I
think fans of the first game are just dissapointed because they're
soooo many changes just here and there and why shouldn't they be
dissapointed? The first game worked, the fans LIKED IT. So why go and
change everything from the health bar to the inventory system to the
way powers work (global cooldowns are icky). I just don't understand
the logic behind serving somebody a pancake when they really liked your
waffles...

Because BioWare looked out there and realised
more people liked pancakes than waffles, so they made a strange pancake
shaped sort of like a waffle and hoped their old waffle fans didn't
care enough or didn't realise. Now that it's worked, I suspect we'll be
seeing far more pancakes from BioWare than waffles. Seems more than 10
years of loyal waffle purchasing isn't good enough anymore when there's
more money in pancakes.

ME1 was a waffle pancake... it looks like there might be a little more pancake and maybe the waffle is a little trimmed to cut down on the unnecessary waffle flaps, but it looks like it's the same basic meal.

Modifié par Captain Jazz, 27 janvier 2010 - 03:10 .

[jmood88]

josh42426 wrote...

Hardcore rpg fans are no longer welcome in the Mass effect trilogy. Bioware have dumbed down the rpg aspects of mass effect entirely with the sequel and instead opted for a game that will have a wider appeal. Its a very sad day when a rpg developer like bioware wants to appeal to the call of duty generation. Seems we will just have to hope for dragon age now because mass effect is for EVERYONE. Am I the only hardcore rpg fan on these forums or does everbody else like the dumber, simpler mass effect.

Explain what they've dumbed down.

[Mezinger]

Agreed, shame on Bioware. They lost their RPG roots trying to make just another shooter.

[Captain Jazz]

Mezinger wrote...

Agreed, shame on Bioware. They lost their RPG roots trying to make just another shooter.

Do they have to make the same game over and over and over and over again? Baldurs Gate in space would be fine, but Mass Effect would not work with those mechanics, it's an action game, turn based combat would not fit.

[Kwikness]

Hmmmm if you mean it appears you will no longer be able to create a broken uber charater I will agree. It seems like they just dropped the useless 2% upgrades and different weapon skin recolorings. The core upgrades that actually changed things are all still there, just in a different form.

Modifié par Kwikness, 27 janvier 2010 - 03:42 .

[Kalfear]

Captain Jazz wrote...

Mezinger wrote...

Agreed, shame on Bioware. They lost their RPG roots trying to make just another shooter.

Do they have to make the same game over and over and over and over again? Baldurs Gate in space would be fine, but Mass Effect would not work with those mechanics, it's an action game, turn based combat would not fit.

orked fine in the first one

Only people that complained were the ADD Shooter crowd

Im finding this rather funny, I said before ME2 shipped that the core audience of Bioware would object to game being dumbed down (and combat is brainless now btw) and spam the forums in revolt and its started!

This only the beginning folks, Bioware went to shooter and not enough RPG in ME2 and changes going to be made for ME3, the core audience will make sure of it.

Sooner or later you same 40 shooter posters going to get tired/fustrated and stop spamming each thread so the majority can get their points across in peace.