184 réponses à ce sujet

[Arlee]

Honestly I like Gespard because I appreciate his upfront and honest nature. Additionally he's the one who got the Inquisitor to the Ball in the first place, and imo nothing he does there warrants the Inquisitor turning on him. Also it really sucks to reunify Celene and Briala you have let Gespard die, and if you save him Briala dies... that's just like what??

 

If you end up with Gespard ruling alone, it's a good situation for the Inquisition because he doesn't forget his friends. The worst you have to worry about from him is he'll try to steal Michael from you. Also I would highly recommend doing the treaty war table mission, just for added security. The big downside of this option (and imo the only real argument against it) is you have to standby and let Celene get murdered for it to happen. Which is just awful, no matter how much I dislike her.

 

What you really don't want is to leave Celene in power with Gespard dead and not reunified with Briala. Celene will turn on you in a heartbeat. So either spare Gespard or do the reunite them thing.

 

While I think they all sort of deserve each other and I find the three of them ruling together funny, I don't really think it's a good solution. Eventually that will crumble and lead to the chaos we were trying to avoid in the first place.

 

Anywho, that's where I have landed with this dang quest.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I don't think anybody's naive towards the true nature of any of them. At this point, it's more a game of "what lesser evil you would rather see on the throne", rather than actually find someone really trustworthy and game-changing.

Much like politics in real life, I suppose.

Plenty people here claimed that they picked up celene because they didn't trust gaspard while pretty much he is much more trustworthy than celene.

[Delphine]

Plenty people here claimed that they picked up celene because they didn't trust gaspard while pretty much he is much more trustworthy than celene.

 

I went with my gut feelings. I didn't like the guy straight up, he felt utterly shady, power-hungry, arrogant as hell, and not respectful towards me very much (so much disdain in his words while talking to my elf mage inquisitor).

In the bigger picture, I fight for elf and mage equality, so in the bigger picture, he was not the one I needed in order to achieve that.

I can't trust the man, at all. At least, I can trust Briala to work a bit towards the elf cause, even though she's no better person.

 

I wished I could have spared his life, honestly, but doing so would have left Orlais in an even bigger mess, unstable as ever, any one of them ready to back-stab the other as soon as the occasion arises. So for a bit of peace, and improvement for the Elf cause, I had to get rid of him.

 

Honestly, I think RP-wise, any kind of decision is defendable. Just depends on who/what you're fighting for in the bigger picture.

[fraggle]

I went with my gut feelings. I didn't like the guy straight up, he felt utterly shady, power-hungry, arrogant as hell, and not respectful towards me very much (so much disdain in his words while talking to my elf mage inquisitor).

In the bigger picture, I fight for elf and mage equality, so in the bigger picture, he was not the one I needed in order to achieve that.

I can't trust the man, at all. At least, I can trust Briala to work a bit towards the elf cause, even though she's no better person.

 

I wished I could have spared his life, honestly, but doing so would have left Orlais in an even bigger mess, unstable as ever, any one of them ready to back-stab the other as soon as the occasion arises. So for a bit of peace, and improvement for the Elf cause, I had to get rid of him.

 

Honestly, I think RP-wise, any kind of decision is defendable. Just depends on who/what you're fighting for in the bigger picture.

 

Exactly my reasons why I would pick Celene (+Bri) over Gaspard any day.

And like you said, everyone can justify their own reason for whoever they're picking when looking at the bigger picture.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I went with my gut feelings. I didn't like the guy straight up, he felt utterly shady, power-hungry, arrogant as hell, and not respectful towards me very much (so much disdain in his words while talking to my elf mage inquisitor).

In the bigger picture, I fight for elf and mage equality, so in the bigger picture, he was not the one I needed in order to achieve that.

I can't trust the man, at all. At least, I can trust Briala to work a bit towards the elf cause, even though she's no better person.

 

I wished I could have spared his life, honestly, but doing so would have left Orlais in an even bigger mess, unstable as ever, any one of them ready to back-stab the other as soon as the occasion arises. So for a bit of peace, and improvement for the Elf cause, I had to get rid of him.

 

Honestly, I think RP-wise, any kind of decision is defendable. Just depends on who/what you're fighting for in the bigger picture.

 

As i said if you can't trust gaspard you can't celene so it isn't matter of trust because gaspard is more trustworthy than celene ,in your case it is matter of your personal feeling (what is fine) but if you think that celene is more trustworthy than gaspard it is simple false.

 

Even if you fight for elves equality gaspard is better bet as simple briala have in control when she isn't in such position with celene and if you read book you should know that celene would pick her and her power over elves and briala any day.

[MoonDrummer]

Gaspard and briala. Celene is a slimy rat, deserves to die for crimes against elfmanity.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

At the end of the day, Celene is still the one best suited for the job, so if you want Briala involved, I would reunite them.

[Delphine]

As i said if you can't trust gaspard you can't celene so it isn't matter of trust because gaspard is more trustworthy than celene ,in your case it is matter of your personal feeling (what is fine) but if you think that celene is more trustworthy than gaspard it is simple false.

 

Even if you fight for elves equality gaspard is better bet as simple briala have in control when she isn't in such position with celene and if you read book you should know that celene would pick her and her power over elves and briala any day.

 

It's a bet I had to make. If in future installments of the game, it is proven that Gaspard+Briala was a better choice in order to achieve my bigger picture goals, than Celene+Briala was, then I'll just redo a playthrough to fix that one. So far, there's no way to know which'll be best in the long run.

And I never said Celene can be trusted. I'm saying nobody can be trusted, but Gaspard is a lot more arrogant and entitled than the rest. Personality traits that I really can't stand (again, personal feelings).

[TheKomandorShepard]

It's a bet I had to make. If in future installments of the game, it is proven that Gaspard+Briala was a better choice in order to achieve my bigger picture goals, than Celene+Briala was, then I'll just redo a playthrough to fix that one. So far, there's no way to know which'll be best in the long run.

And I never said Celene can be trusted. I'm saying nobody can be trusted, but Gaspard is a lot more arrogant and entitled than the rest. Personality traits that I really can't stand (again, personal feelings).

Your call but i was saying that you said you couldn't trust gaspard and that was your reason to pick celene or at least one of reasons on what i replied that for some reason people keep using that argument despite as i said gaspard being much more trustworthy than celene.

[FiveThreeTen]

 

What you really don't want is to leave Celene in power with Gespard dead and not reunified with Briala. Celene will turn on you in a heartbeat.

 

Not really. She still has a strong alliance with the Inquisition in the Epilogue if you did the War Table mission and have high court approval even in this scenario.

[congokong]

Gaspard ruling alone is the worst option IMO. That's probably why Cullen, the least politically knowledgeable, recommends having him rule. A look at history shows what people like him do: create wars for their country's "glory." He already started a civil war just because he wasn't satisfied with being Grand Duke. He's power-hungry. How much blood has he spilled already in his attempt to plant his ass on the Orlesian throne? And of course, he's not politically savvy which a ruler probably should be.

 

All three are bad people, but at minimum I think Celene should rule. At least she strives for peace. With or without Briala's aid, I cannot say. I didn't like the way Briala joins Celene though by lying about her "vital" role in saving Celene.

 

Note: One thing I personally liked about Celene was how she offered the Inquisition aid with presumably no strings attached, unlike Gaspard and Briala.

[Arlee]

Gaspard ruling alone is the worst option IMO. That's probably why Cullen, the least politically knowledgeable, recommends having him rule. A look at history shows what people like him do: create wars for their country's "glory." He already started a civil war just because he wasn't satisfied with being Grand Duke. He's power-hungry. How much blood has he spilled already in his attempt to plant his ass on the Orlesian throne? And of course, he's not politically savvy which a ruler probably should be.

 

All three are bad people, but at minimum I think Celene should rule. At least she strives for peace. With or without Briala's aid, I cannot say. I didn't like the way Briala joins Celene though by lying about her "vital" role in saving Celene.

 

Note: One thing I personally liked about Celene was how she offered the Inquisition aid with presumably no strings attached, unlike Gaspard and Briala.

 

Except for one of the first thing he does is sets-up (with the help of the Inquisitor) talks which lead to a treaty to keep the peace between Orlais and Fereldan. He's not a mindless warmongering beast the way some people make him out to be.

[Arlee]

Not really. She still has a strong alliance with the Inquisition in the Epilogue if you did the War Table mission and have high court approval even in this scenario.

 

Ah, so if you have high enough approval she doesn't abandon you? That makes sense at least. Do you know how high you need for that to work?

[Eliastion]

In my playthrough I thought I could trust Celene more than Gespard, but that was due to pretty specific situation - Celene was someone who would want to make some (good) reforms but she's also cowardly and when things seem to go sour, she does ANYTHING to ensure that she stays in power. However, with Gaspard out of the picture and powerful Inquisition on Orlais'  doorstep with an elf in charge (elf who outright demanded recognition for the fact that he is, indeed, an elf - that's how I understand the declaration of ideals when assuming position of Inquisitor in Skyhold), Celene has an ally that can keep her on her throne AND turning on elves in this situation seems like a very dumb thing to do, especially since Briala was made Marquise of the Dales, which means that in a couple years time she would have a real army, not just a bunch of kitchen staff with knives.

Basically, Celene can do reforms (she seems to want to), be all lovey-dove with Briala (oh, darling, you don't hold a grudge that I killed your parents and massacred insurgents in Halamshiral, do you? This relationship is sick, good thing I like neither of those two b*tches) and feel relatively secure on her throne. In the same time, turning on elves OR on Inquisition puts her in a very unfavorable position. So, basically, she has lots to gain on an alliance and nothing to lose on turning on me.

 

Now let's see Gaspard. He wants to invade Ferelden - and Inquisition is friendly with this nation too and doesn't really want a war, especially with their HQ pretty much on the border between them. Gaspard doesn't like elves - and there is this freaking elf inquisitor. Gaspard is also all for Orlesian imperialistic pride, which means that his internal position is likely to be much stronger than Celene's (especially with Celene reunited with Briala). Unlike Celene, Gaspard doesn't really need Inquisition and may even have serious disagreements with it concerning things that are important to him (going to war to conquer something, that is). And this is why I trust Celene more than Gaspard - not because she as a person is more trustworthy, but because she doesn't have much reason to betray me (and definitely has some to remain my friend) while Gaspard's conflict with Inquisition is something that I believe to be nigh-unavoidable. At least with my Inquisition that is led by an elf and doesn't really like its pet kingdoms conquering one another  

 

As for Gaspard with Briala, I said why I believe it to be a disaster waiting to happen.

 

To sum things up, I think there are at least two rankings, both possibly changing a bit depending on who the Inquisitor is. It goes like that:

A) If your priority is Orlais as a strong nation, you want:

1 - Solo Gaspard, he seems like someone that could really make it a strong nation, even though he wants conquests that aren't really good for Orlais, especially at this point.

2 - Solo Celene, if you support her, she can push for reforms that Orlais really needs. Looking for new wars isn't a good idea, really. However, Celene is too reliant on the Game and that's why she gets only second place; and why she really needs your support

3 - Celene + Briala, they also push for reforms. Their position is weaker than Celene's if she's alone and regardless of what political correctness might claim, the fate of the oppressed doesn't really make the nation as a whole worse-off, so effort put into improving situation of elves could be spent with better (for Orlais) effects elsewhere. Still, that's a solid option.

4 - Threesome. It can be very beneficial for Orlais in the short run, but this triumvirate is bound to break. The best case scenario has either Celene or Gaspard taking full power at some point. Worst case scenario is another civil war, possibly worse than the last

5 - Briala with Gaspard as her puppet. I believe that is the worst option. It can't work. Gaspard making Briala's reforms will be hated, but he'll hate her and Inquisition, and elves too. Briala has good chances of getting drunk on power, pushing for elf-related reforms and pretty much neglecting other issues. I think those two would be just plainly dysfunctional, and then finally Gaspard will break free, kill Briala and enact vengeance - I don't see him making any deals with Inquisition after Briala is dead. Even if his internal position will be very weak by that point, even if he would really benefit from maintaining good relations - I don't believe he would have enough composure to just "forget" hatred born of years of humiliation.

 

If we look at the situation from different angle, namely: elven angle, the order is different.

1. Celene + Briala - this tandem with Inquisition's support can really make a change and most likely will want to make a change. Backed by Inquisition, Celene most likely won't backstab the elven cause since the main reason (fear of losing power) shouldn't really apply. Even if he does turn on elves, it likely won't be with malice (making it slightly less disastrous).

2. Threesome - they will likely improve the lot of elves (if just a little bit) and whoever remains standing after the truce crumbles won't really have much reasons to hate elves. And will have lots of other things to think of. Basically, this is a low-gain scenario but the gain will likely last.

3. Celene solo - the Empress is supposedly friendly to the elven cause, but hardly trustworthy and her power comes first. With Inquisition's support she will likely provide some small reforms... but that's not certain. An iffy choice with possibility that things will improve - but only a little even in the best case scenario.

4. Gaspard solo - This guy doesn't really like elves, doesn't respect elves, likely sees them somewhere between a draft horse and a human. A bit below a good riding horse, actually. With him, nothing will change

5. Gaspard as Briala's puppet - yeah, I hate this option. This path is likely to give quick, noticeable improvement and then a great plunge with elves ending up worse off than they started. Reforms made by emperor who doesn't want them, forced to it by means of blackmail... That just can't turn out well.

[congokong]

Except for one of the first thing he does is sets-up (with the help of the Inquisitor) talks which lead to a treaty to keep the peace between Orlais and Fereldan. He's not a mindless warmongering beast the way some people make him out to be.

Treaties can be broken; just saying.

[TheRatPack55]

Gaspard ruling alone is the worst option IMO. That's probably why Cullen, the least politically knowledgeable, recommends having him rule. A look at history shows what people like him do: create wars for their country's "glory." He already started a civil war just because he wasn't satisfied with being Grand Duke. He's power-hungry. How much blood has he spilled already in his attempt to plant his ass on the Orlesian throne? And of course, he's not politically savvy which a ruler probably should be.

 

All three are bad people, but at minimum I think Celene should rule. At least she strives for peace. With or without Briala's aid, I cannot say. I didn't like the way Briala joins Celene though by lying about her "vital" role in saving Celene.

 

Note: One thing I personally liked about Celene was how she offered the Inquisition aid with presumably no strings attached, unlike Gaspard and Briala.

 

I don't mind Gaspard's war-mongering. The Inquisition is not a country with lands to conquer, it is a purely political power. There is no reason, or really even way for Gaspard to use military force against it. Putting him on the throne additionally gives him motivation to continue his alliance with it in the future. Gaspard is the easiest leader to deal with, because he is predictable, and therefore reliable. For my (human, noble) Inquisitor, he is a very convenient asset.

[Eliastion]

(...)

Note: One thing I personally liked about Celene was how she offered the Inquisition aid with presumably no strings attached, unlike Gaspard and Briala.

I think there are those implied strings of the fact that to help you she needs to stay on the throne... So it's basically a two-way alliance regardless of whether she voices her demands or not.

[Eliastion]

I don't mind Gaspard's war-mongering. The Inquisition is not a country with lands to conquer, it is a purely political power. There is no reason, or really even way for Gaspard to use military force against it. Putting him on the throne additionally gives him motivation to continue his alliance with it in the future. Gaspard is the easiest leader to deal with, because he is predictable, and therefore reliable. For my (human, noble) Inquisitor, he is a very convenient asset.

Inquisition is political AND military power. Depending on your decisions: Military and political in this order. It has its strongholds and its armies that are said to rival those of kingdoms. It doesn't have lands (not on kingdom's scale, at least) but it has much more than a political influence of sorts. And it's difficult to say what would Gaspards opinion be of an independent great army operating pretty much on his doorstep...

Of course if you don't wish to hinder his conquests, or even want to help him with them, a lasting alliance is definitely possible. But if you don't want Ferelden conquered, or if you want to have a peace between Orlais and Nevarra, it  gets much more problematic.

[Arlee]

Treaties can be broken; just saying.

 

Of course... Celene also purged the alienage and had the parents of her lover killed. So she's only trustworthy as long as she feels it's in her interests. She's quiet capable of doing one thing while working against you behind the scenes. Gespard on the other hand is far more open. Not to mention, he never actually indicates he wants to invade Fereldan. Other people make that assumption because he's a military person, but he doesn't give any indication of it himself, so who's to say he has any intention of doing that? Plus, we have no indication of him ever turning on someone who didn't turn on him first so why do people think he would turn on the Inquisition?

[FiveThreeTen]

Ah, so if you have high enough approval she doesn't abandon you? That makes sense at least. Do you know how high you need for that to work?

I believe it's above 85 (since you need to reach that cap to have the option to denounce Florianne publicly without battling her). I believe it's also tied to the Ferelden negociations.

 

Admittedly, Celene's support if ruling alone is more conditional than Gaspard's (alone), but the option is there.

Of course... Celene also purged the alienage and had the parents of her lover killed. So she's only trustworthy as long as she feels it's in her interests. She's quiet capable of doing one thing while working against you behind the scenes. Gespard on the other hand is far more open. Not to mention, he never actually indicates he wants to invade Fereldan. Other people make that assumption because he's a military person, but he doesn't give any indication of it himself, so who's to say he has any intention of doing that? Plus, we have no indication of him ever turning on someone who didn't turn on him first so why do people think he would turn on the Inquisition?

He admits wanting to return to expansionism if you ask him. Wether he directs his military to Tevinter or not depends on you if made Emperor.

He also plays "the Game" and and doesn't shy away from opportunism in the books (the fact that he justifies it with honor or duty is irrevelant for me).

[congokong]

Of course... Celene also purged the alienage and had the parents of her lover killed. So she's only trustworthy as long as she feels it's in her interests. She's quiet capable of doing one thing while working against you behind the scenes. Gespard on the other hand is far more open. Not to mention, he never actually indicates he wants to invade Fereldan. Other people make that assumption because he's a military person, but he doesn't give any indication of it himself, so who's to say he has any intention of doing that? Plus, we have no indication of him ever turning on someone who didn't turn on him first so why do people think he would turn on the Inquisition?

I don't disagree. I said all three are bad people before, and I have a certain respect for Gaspard being blunt about his intent. I don't believe he'd invade Ferelden or threaten the Inquisition in the foreseeable future. Orlais I don't think is even in the position to do it, but I think he could lead Orlais down that path to repeat history. Knowing that I have strong reservations about putting a crown on his head.

[DarkDragon777]

I don't understand the hate for Gaspard. He's literally the most trustworthy of the three yet people say the opposite.

 

I put him and Briala on the throne in Inquisition because I also liked Briala's goals. I see nothing good in Celene quite frankly.

[Arlee]

I believe it's above 85 (since you need to reach that cap to have the option to denounce Florianne publicly without battling her). I believe it's also tied to the Ferelden negociations.

 

Admittedly, Celene's support if ruling alone is more conditional than Gaspard's (alone), but the option is there.

He admits wanting to return to expansionism if you ask him. Wether he directs his military to Tevinter or not depends on you if made Emperor.

He also plays "the Game" and and doesn't shy away from opportunism in the books (the fact that he justifies it with honor or duty is irrevelant for me).

 

Ah that makes a lot of sense about the approval needing to be that high. Basically she realizes you can tear her down like you did Florianne. That's an interesting option I didn't know was there

 

That's true about the expansionist part, but that could mean so many things other than Fereldan. Plus I feel like we are on the cusp of something huge happening, which at the very least would keep his goals of that on the back burner for awhile. Depends a lot on what happens next. And yea he plays the game but not at all the same way Celene does. He's less crafty? Cunning? Devious? I think devious is right. Of course I didn't read any of the books so there's probably information there which would make me feel differently.

[TheRatPack55]

Inquisition is political AND military power. Depending on your decisions: Military and political in this order. It has its strongholds and its armies that are said to rival those of kingdoms. It doesn't have lands (not on kingdom's scale, at least) but it has much more than a political influence of sorts. And it's difficult to say what would Gaspards opinion be of an independent great army operating pretty much on his doorstep...

Of course if you don't wish to hinder his conquests, or even want to help him with them, a lasting alliance is definitely possible. But if you don't want Ferelden conquered, or if you want to have a peace between Orlais and Nevarra, it  gets much more problematic.

 

Yes, of course, the Inquisition has both military and political power, but that's precisely what would make it a very valuable ally to Gaspard, and why he would have pretty much nothing to gain from opposing it - attack a friendly force and expend your own resources for... what? Break a friendly alliance? Damage an allied army? Attack a revered religious icon and probably gain the ire of the people? Assuming he could even hope to end up victorious. There's literally no reason for Gaspard to turn against the Inquisition, unlike Celene and Briala, who do desire the political/social power and would possibly want to take the seat of it for themselves.

 

Admittedly, I do not much care for the countries and borders sacrificed as long as the Inquisition stays as strong as it is. Gaspard's conquests, especially if I aided them, could only add to my power. So, yes, Emperor Gaspard feels like the perfect choice.

[Digger1967]

Ok, well having chosen the mages quest to get to that point from a roleplaying standpoint I had to chose Celene.  According to what was learned on the mage's quest Corypheous's victory begins with her assassination.

 

It doesn't really specify whether or not the Inquisition was involved.  So really from an RP standpoint alone, I couldn't really side with the Grand Duke without feeling like I was risking that outcome.

 

I didn't go the blackmail route myself, I really dislike the whole timer thing so I just grab the bare essentials of what I need to get to the end and without the blackmail material you just expose the plot and Celene I guess has them both executed, which honestly is fine with me.

 

Not a big fan of politicians.