282 replies to this topic

[themikefest]

Actually of all the factions the Asari have the second best military record. They are the only faction, other than the Turians, who manage to give the Reapers a couple defeats prior to the Earth counteroffensive.

How well would they of done had the reapers attacked their homeworld instead of Earth?
 

Also of the two mentioned military campaigns from the Krogan Rebellion the Asari participated in, both were Asari victories.

 Didn't the Turians and Salarians help? It was a combined victory

 

The Asari were giving the reapers hell in space battles with their hit and run tactics, and it kept the reapers from invading their worlds for a while.

I would tell the asari to continue those attacks even if the reapers landed on their homeworld. Not all reapers landed on the surface.

However, the reapers eventually changed their strategy of engaging the fleets and simply landed. They didn't have the heavy infantry necessary to fight a ground war. And as we saw on Palaven and Earth, and as the Protheans found out in the previous cycle, heavy infantry only delays the inevitable.

I would have them concentrate on the processing ships and troop transport ships just like what Illium did. It delayed the invasion.
 

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Lies! Sur'kesh wasn't attacked until you launched the final assault to take back Earth, so that doesn't count. Palaven? Yes it did fall. The turians gave up their defense of their homeworld to launch the attack against the reapers. Tuchanka? It wasn't a high priority for the reapers because they were not a space faring species. They weren't going anywhere.

 

The Asari were giving the reapers hell in space battles with their hit and run tactics, and it kept the reapers from invading their worlds for a while. However, the reapers eventually changed their strategy of engaging the fleets and simply landed. They didn't have the heavy infantry necessary to fight a ground war. And as we saw on Palaven and Earth, and as the Protheans found out in the previous cycle, heavy infantry only delays the inevitable.

 

The only sound strategy is some way of species continuity. Find some worlds off the grid and enter the systems without using the relay system, build underground archives, fly the ships into the stars, and hide for 800 years living like primitives or in stasis.

Sur'kesh wasn't formally attacked by the Reaper forces during the story missions, but that's not relevant here--the Reapers avoided attacking them and chose to hit the Asari instead.

 

The Krogan most certainly are a spacefaring species. They don't have a formal navy, but their infantry offered one of the few things that could bring Reaper harvesting to a screeching halt. The Turians presented a similar problem: Palaven's aerospace defenses were lifted, but the ground war was agonizingly slow for the Reapers. The picture that gets painted for Thessia is strikingly different; that the planet is lost and that the Asari of Thessia are in a situation more similar to Earth than to Palaven.

 

I think this thread is illustrative of the poor job that BW did at highlighting the differences between the different species. The lore treats them as being very different, but from what we as players are able to witness, most differences are implicit, not explicit: the Turians are military masters but are as wary as anyone else about war with the Terminus; the Volus are said to be military inept, but it's never explained why they can't build a navy; the Salarians aren't supposed to be a martial people but have a huge population with a big fleet and the STG; the Batarians are supposed to be "destroyed" by the Reapers despite the fact that there's apparently hundreds of millions if not billions of Batarians in Terminus space, et cetera. The Asari are supposed to not be a very martial people either, and despite all their achievements and technological prowess that should have given them a huge advantage compared to everyone else, lost to the Reapers more decisively than a few other races. That's about as good a species characterization as you'll get in this series.

[Laughing_Man]

Pro tip: don't put words in other people's mouths. It's impolite and is often incorrect.

 

I don't actually dislike her. But she is a badly written character. How does she go from a warm and naïve archaeologist to the quick-thinking, cold-hearted iron-fisted leader of the most powerful spy ring in the entire galaxy in the span of less than 3 years? That makes no sense. The greatest flaws of the asari as a species are their stubbornness and inability to quickly adapt to new situations. They are NOT blue humans, but for all intents and purposes, Liara is. That's the issue. She's the exception to the rules that the other Asari have to abide by. Her character completely transformed in an incredibly short span of time. Most humans irl don't change their personalities that quickly, and compared to alien races, especially the asari, humans are the ambitious and unpredictable wildcard people.

 

The Asari can fight quite well in thousands of isolated small battles, but they don't have the kind of tactical development to fight massive battles like the turians can (the turians, for example, not losing Palaven, partly because of the comprehensive defense of the planet). That's definitely a flaw in and of itself.

 

Well, it was not really my intention to offend, I just remember reading flaming threads posted by rabid fans of other characters. (I actually like almost all of ME characters) And in any case, as I said, when it comes to the infamous "Mary-Sue", Liara is not any more more of a MS than other female members of the ME cast.

 

Regarding the change in her personality, I think that it's simply the results of losing her mother, Shepard (which may or may not have been her lover), and the Normandy in a short amount of time, added to the impending doom of the Reaper threat. Some would break under the stress - she adapted instead. And her cold personality is probably her imitating her mother on some level because she is the strongest character she knew, something that slowly becomes merely a hardened version of her original personality during ME3. (not exactly, but close)

[Laughing_Man]

The truth is that the differences between the races when it comes to military doctrine are shallow as hell.

I mean, no matter your physical characteristics and mentality, if you have access to Eezo and enough resources you can build the largest dreadnaught fleet ever.

 

ME writers more or less fell to the trap of giving entire alien species more or less a single human quality to distinguish them from others. It's simply unlikely. Sure, I can see races having preferences, but not to the degree of ignoring everything else.

 

The story of Mass Effect in many aspects works only as long as you don't look too closely at it or ask too many difficult questions.

[Barquiel]

Thessia fell to the Reapers. Did Sur'kesh fall? Did Palaven fall? Did Tuchanka fall? The Asari had a fair warning after Earth and Khar'shan and didn't mobilize their military effectively to slow down the Reaper invasion. They made themselves prime targets and simultaneously didn't adequately defend themselves. Part of it is tactics, part of it is strategy. Not all of it is necessarily intentional, but the Asari sure didn't make things much tougher for the Reapers.

They did slow down the reaper invasion. It's explicitly mentioned that the assault on Thessia did not go as smoothly as the Reapers' strikes against other races. And you can also check the planet descriptions of some other asari worlds (Illium, Cyone, Trategos, Niacal, Lusia, etc.)
 

Their slow learning and lack of ambition are illustrated by humans, by comparison being described as quick learners who aggressively push to achieve and take everything that can be taken. If these traits make humans stand out, then it is fair to deduce that other species are not so strongly imbued with these qualities. Also of note is the Asari having a Prothean beacon which should put them much further ahead of other races in terms of technological achievements, but many of the great specific innovations (stealth ships, high-powered weapons, medical tech, banking systems) are developments made by the other Citadel races. The asari overwhelmingly favor the liberal arts, rather than technological engineering. In a story where technological engineering is constantly treated as what leads to accomplishment, the Asari aren't on par in this respect with the other races.

You forgot to mention that Humanity hit the motherlode of prothean finds compared to every other race, including the asari. ("In 2148, prospectors exploring near the Deseado Crater found the source of these disturbances when they unearthed a subterranean Prothean ruin, containing a malfunctioning mass effect core and several starships, as well as refined element zero"). The asari on the other hand couldn't even properly activate their beacon.

I also disagree that they learn slowly or aren't ambitious. There are enough CDN stories and codex entries which show that they are not stagnating. For example...

"Many respected asari scientists have used their long life spans to become leading experts in their fields. Asari scholars often gain perspective on how cultural shifts affect society, grasping the larger contextual forces behind new proposals and using this to springboard into hypotheses years ahead of their time. The asari science team working on the Crucible consists of some of the keenest scientific mavericks in the galaxy, eager to contribute to its construction. "

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Well, it was not really my intention to offend, I just remember reading flaming threads posted by rabid fans of other characters. (I actually like almost all of ME characters) And in any case, as I said, when it comes to the infamous "Mary-Sue", Liara is not any more more of a MS than other female members of the ME cast.

 

Regarding the change in her personality, I think that it's simply the results of losing her mother, Shepard (which may or may not have been her lover), and the Normandy in a short amount of time, added to the impending doom of the Reaper threat. Some would break under the stress - she adapted instead. And her cold personality is probably her imitating her mother on some level because she is the strongest character she knew, something that slowly becomes merely a hardened version of her original personality during ME3. (not exactly, but close)

 

She adapted too quickly though. Want to see character maturation done right? Morrigan in Dragon Age. Goes from being a silly young woman who has next to no social skills who thinks she knows everything to an adult who balances politics, magic, the Great Game and motherhood--after a span of nearly a decade. Liara took on a much greater challenge in a much shorter span of time, despite the fact that the Asari take hundreds of years, rather than decades, to fully mature (not physically or sexually but mentally). Liara didn't need to be the Shadow Broker. She was fine as she was in the first game. A little maturation to the second game was fine, but ultimately the way she was handled in the third game was just absurd.

 

 

They did slow down the reaper invasion. It's explicitly mentioned that the assault on Thessia did not go as smoothly as the Reapers' strikes against other races. And you can also check the planet descriptions of some other asari worlds (Illium, Cyone, Trategos, Niacal, Lusia, etc.)
 

You forgot to mention that Humanity hit the motherlode of prothean finds compared to every other race, including the asari. ("In 2148, prospectors exploring near the Deseado Crater found the source of these disturbances when they unearthed a subterranean Prothean ruin, containing a malfunctioning mass effect core and several starships, as well as refined element zero"). The asari on the other hand couldn't even properly activate their beacon.

I also disagree that they learn slowly or aren't ambitious. There are enough CDN stories and codex entries which show that they are not stagnating. For example...

"Many respected asari scientists have used their long life spans to become leading experts in their fields. Asari scholars often gain perspective on how cultural shifts affect society, grasping the larger contextual forces behind new proposals and using this to springboard into hypotheses years ahead of their time. The asari science team working on the Crucible consists of some of the keenest scientific mavericks in the galaxy, eager to contribute to its construction. "

 

The Asari were hand-picked by the Protheans as the leading race of the Modern Cycle. Humans may have found the Prothean find of all Prothean finds, but the Asari got it a lot better than anyone other than us--and more importantly, they got it sooner. The Asari were interstellar travelers in the days of Mycenae. If that's not a head start of epic proportions, please tell me what is.  But that gap narrowed and closed to the point that Humans, despite being thousands of years behind, are almost entirely caught up culturally and technologically in only a few decades.

It's not that the Asari are technologically inept by any means. Obviously there are Asari who take advantage of their extreme lifespan and use it to become masters in their respective fields, but most don't have the interest to live up to that potential, and that's their Achilles' heel. A disproportionately small number of Asari actually accomplish what they can accomplish, as most of the younger ones (the majority of the population) are content to be mercenaries, prostitutes and liberal arts aficionados. In our world, that might work out just fine, but in the midst of a Reaper invasion, not so much.

[Laughing_Man]

It's not a real competition "who fell faster to the Reapers", the sad truth is that no matter your strength you are still going to lose as long as the equation says: "4 Dreadnoughts firing at the same time are the only thing that can take down a Reaper" - assuming of course that their main guns can even hit a target that is far more nimble than the average dreadnought.

 

Because after all, Every battle that had multiple dreadnoughts opposing the Reapers, also had dozens if not hundreds of Reapers.

 

Very quickly, every race was reduced to fighting a guerrilla war from the ruins of their civilization. I don't think that the Turians actually held the line for any meaningful amount of time. A few days more or less didn't change the grim picture.

[Laughing_Man]

She adapted too quickly though. Want to see character maturation done right? Morrigan in Dragon Age. Goes from being a silly young woman who has next to no social skills who thinks she knows everything to an adult who balances politics, magic, the Great Game and motherhood--after a span of nearly a decade. Liara took on a much greater challenge in a much shorter span of time, despite the fact that the Asari take hundreds of years, rather than decades, to fully mature (not physically or sexually but mentally). Liara didn't need to be the Shadow Broker. She was fine as she was in the first game. A little maturation to the second game was fine, but ultimately the way she was handled in the third game was just absurd.

 

Well, I think it's a matter of opinion. I can see what you mean, but I don't think that your assumptions about the Asari are necessarily correct, just that this is *usually* how things are. When their fight or flight instincts are pushed to the limits, their development is different, as we can understand from what Samara tells about Morinth's age when she escaped.

 

Regarding being the shadow broker, well, she didn't really become the actual next shadow broker. The Job more like fell in her lap, and she did the best with what she had.

 

I understand your reservations, but I think it's still in the realm of possibility.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Well, I think it's a matter of opinion. I can see what you mean, but I don't think that your assumptions about the Asari are necessarily correct, just that this is *usually* how things are. When their fight or flight instincts are pushed to the limits, their development is different, as we can understand from what Samara tells about Morinth's age when she escaped.

 

Regarding being the shadow broker, well, she didn't really become the actual next shadow broker. The Job more like fell in her lap, and she did the best with what she had.

 

I understand your reservations, but I think it's still in the realm of possibility.

 She did her best, and seeing as how she faced no challenges in the games, it would appear that she was more than stellar at her job. Took over seamlessly. While also being Shepard's squadmate.

 

Compare Tali, who got leadership positions, and due to her inexperience with such matters, didn't do well at all (and her personality has a lot to do with it: she's too nice, for example, to put a leash on Prazza). Would've been great if they had at least written a single significant character flaw for Liara. That it's stressful for her to do the most stressful job in the galaxy not counting Shepard's role, I don't really think that counts.

[Laughing_Man]

 She did her best, and seeing as how she faced no challenges in the games, it would appear that she was more than stellar at her job. Took over seamlessly. While also being Shepard's squadmate.

 

Compare Tali, who got leadership positions, and due to her inexperience with such matters, didn't do well at all (and her personality has a lot to do with it: she's too nice, for example, to put a leash on Prazza). Would've been great if they had at least written a single significant character flaw for Liara. That it's stressful for her to do the most stressful job in the galaxy not counting Shepard's role, I don't really think that counts.

 

*shrug*

 

I don't really feel it. I think that her character feels organic, and that the changes are more or less plausible.

 

I don't think that Tali, Miranda, Ashley or Kasumi are any less MS, and honestly I'm okay with that.

You don't create a character and then stop and say: "Hey I don't want her to be a Mary Sue, so let's add some flaws."

If the character is working as intended and is interesting enough, don't fix it.

(that is not to say that flaws are necessarily bad, but sometimes they feel tacked on and tiresome)

[Dunmer of Redoran]

*shrug*

 

I don't really feel it. I think that her character feels organic, and that the changes are more or less plausible.

 

I don't think that Tali, Miranda, Ashley or Kasumi are any less MS, and honestly I'm okay with that.

You don't create a character and then stop and say: "Hey I don't want her to be a Mary Sue, so let's add some flaws."

If the character is working as intended and is interesting enough, don't fix it.

(that is not to say that flaws are necessarily bad, but sometimes they feel tacked on and tiresome)

 

I disagree with that. As a writer, that's something I do quite often. I focus on sci-fi and sometimes I'll write a character (or a species/culture) and get really into it, develop so much for them, and then realize halfway through that their strengths are extreme and their flaws are tiny, which obviously isn't very realistic since no one is perfect. Rather than shoehorning in some flaws, I look at what makes sense in relation to that character or species' strengths, and go from there. Bioware did that with the Asari as a whole, but as I said, most of it is implicit rather than explicit, and I feel that this is what led to a thread like this being created in the first place. The Asari have plenty of weaknesses as every race does, though in the case of Liara, the weaknesses are minimized and strengths are maximized.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

@DaftArbiter - the fact of the matter is this: if it were not for the Crucible, every world, no matter how powerful their military would have been reaper chow. Remember the Turians with the Krogan were taking 80% casualties.

 

And who is to say the Asari navy gave up fighting? No one.

 

And the Salarians weren't attacked. Where were the reaperized Salarians? They didn't have a massive fleet either. That's not in the codex.

 

Every race in the galaxy is pretty well balanced out with each other except for the "joke races"

[Laughing_Man]

...though in the case of Liara, the weaknesses are minimized and strengths are maximized.

 

I have no problem with that, she is an exceptional individual, and there are others like her in every race.

(besides, she has to be awesome with a father like hers...)

 

"Mary Sue" is meaningless, because sometimes you have a "Mary Sue" even in real life.

 

If the character flows, and does not feels forced or unplausible, there is no point in religiously adhering to strict rules when the purpose is to

create a fun and interesting story, he or she are just an exceptional character and you can move on.

 

Hell, if you want to actually save the galaxy, you better have the best of every species with you, otherwise you might as well go home.

[Undead Han]

Thessia fell to the Reapers. Did Sur'kesh fall? Did Palaven fall? Did Tuchanka fall? The Asari had a fair warning after Earth and Khar'shan and didn't mobilize their military effectively to slow down the Reaper invasion. They made themselves prime targets and simultaneously didn't adequately defend themselves. Part of it is tactics, part of it is strategy. Not all of it is necessarily intentional, but the Asari sure didn't make things much tougher for the Reapers.

 

Sur'Kesh and Tuchanka didn't fall because they weren't invaded. Compared to the other Council races the Salarians were mostly a non-entity in the Reaper War, and Tuchanka was likely ignored because the Krogan have no fleet. 

 

Of the three planets you mentioned only Palaven gets invaded by the Reapers, and of all the home worlds that get invaded it is the only one to hold out longer than Thessia. Khar'shan, Earth, Irune and Dekuuna are all taken with ease by the Reapers. The Asari on the other hand have some success initially in defending their home system with hit & run tactics, and manage a few victories. While that only manages to delay the inevitable, really that's about the best anyone could hope for against the Reapers. Even the Turians were waging a losing battle for Palaven.

 

 

How well would they of done had the reapers attacked their homeworld instead of Earth?
 

 

Had they been struck right out of the gate perhaps they wouldn't have done as well. But nevertheless it doesn't go that way, and they do manage to put more of a fight than the Alliance did. An argument for the Alliance being better militarily can't be made when they lose every battle except for the last one, which is a combined effort. Also Earth isn't struck first...Khar'Shan is. It had at least as much warning as Palaven, and yet falls much faster.

 

 Didn't the Turians and Salarians help? It was a combined victory

 

 

Lusia was a combined Council victory, but Cyone was won solely by the Asari.

 

The Krogan launched several assaults against Cyone, all of which the Asari defenders repulsed. The Asari fleet then counterattacked, cut off the Krogan supply line, and drove them out of the system for good.

 

That the defenders on Cyone could trounce the Krogan is not really a surprise when you take the lore into account. Qualitatively the Asari field the best soldiers in the galaxy. According to the lore there is a popular Turian saying that, "The Asari are the finest warriors in the galaxy. Fortunately there aren't many of them."

[themikefest]

Had they been struck right out of the gate perhaps they wouldn't have done as well. But nevertheless it doesn't go that way, and they do manage to put more of a fight than the Alliance did. An argument for the Alliance being better militarily can't be made when they lose every battle except for the last one, which is a combined effort.

That works both ways.
 

Also Earth isn't struck first...Khar'Shan is. It had at least as much warning as Palaven, and yet falls much faster.

The same may of happened had the reapers went to Thessia instead of Earth

 

 

 Qualitatively the Asari field the best soldiers in the galaxy. According to the lore there is a popular Turian saying that, "The Asari are the finest warriors in the galaxy. Fortunately there aren't many of them."

Funny since  Shepard finished the ardat yakshi mission for them

[Dunmer of Redoran]

@DaftArbiter - the fact of the matter is this: if it were not for the Crucible, every world, no matter how powerful their military would have been reaper chow. Remember the Turians with the Krogan were taking 80% casualties.

 

And who is to say the Asari navy gave up fighting? No one.

 

And the Salarians weren't attacked. Where were the reaperized Salarians? They didn't have a massive fleet either. That's not in the codex.

 

Every race in the galaxy is pretty well balanced out with each other except for the "joke races"

 

But the Reapers avoided them. Why? There's a reason. In military history, there's always a reason why a conquering invader avoids a potential target. Usually, it's that the target provides a combination of a staunch defense and not much to offer. Whatever the exact composition thereof, the Salarians didn't look like very tempting targets for the Reapers, and so the Reapers avoided them.

 

Sur'Kesh and Tuchanka didn't fall because they weren't invaded. Compared to the other Council races the Salarians were mostly a non-entity in the Reaper War, and Tuchanka was likely ignored because the Krogan have no fleet. 

 

Of the three planets you mentioned only Palaven gets invaded by the Reapers, and of all the home worlds that get invaded it is the only one to hold out longer than Thessia. Khar'shan, Earth, Irune and Dekuuna are all taken with ease by the Reapers. The Asari on the other hand have some success initially in defending their home system with hit & run tactics, and manage a few victories. While that only manages to delay the inevitable, really that's about the best anyone could hope for against the Reapers. Even the Turians were waging a losing battle for Palaven.

 

 

 

Had they been struck right out of the gate perhaps they wouldn't have done as well. But nevertheless it doesn't go that way, and they do manage to put more of a fight than the Alliance did. An argument for the Alliance being better militarily can't be made when they lose every battle except for the last one, which is a combined effort. Also Earth isn't struck first...Khar'Shan is. It had at least as much warning as Palaven, and yet falls much faster.

 

 

Lusia was a combined Council victory, but Cyone was won solely by the Asari.

 

The Krogan launched several assaults against Cyone, all of which the Asari defenders repulsed. The Asari fleet then counterattacked, cut off the Krogan supply line, and drove them out of the system for good.

 

That the defenders on Cyone could trounce the Krogan is not really a surprise when you take the lore into account. Qualitatively the Asari field the best soldiers in the galaxy. According to the lore there is a popular Turian saying that, "The Asari are the finest warriors in the galaxy. Fortunately there aren't many of them."

Tuchanka was most definitely invaded. Maybe not by a large force, but those Brutes and Marauders and Cannibals sure weren't tourists fresh off a cruise ship. Earth and Palaven didn't have an advance warning of any real kind. A bunch of Batarians showed up; that doesn't really mean anything before the fact. Khar'shan got whacked and shut down before anyone knew what was going on. Thessia got hit after Khar'shan, after Earth, after Palaven, after Tuchanka, even after Cerby attempted a commando raid on Sur'Kesh. Didn't matter. Even with advance intelligence, they didn't adequately prepare their defenses.

 

Again and again and again I have to say this: the Asari had the deck stacked in their advantage from day one and rose no higher in the war than anyone else. That is the best illustration of their particular weaknesses. Despite their technological edge, despite their army of biotics, despite their high culture and everything else, and despite an advance warning (which the Turians didn't have), they failed like everyone else, and that's what makes their failure much greater in magnitude.

[Barquiel]

Hackett said the salarians were attacked after the mission on Horizon ( -> probably a few days after Thessia)...and it seems that they didn't put up a better fight against the reapers than the asari did (at least according to the galaxy map).

And a conventional victory was simply not possible. Even the combined forces of the krogan and the turians on palaven couldn't stop the reapers, they just slowed them down. The turian fleet was also more or less destroyed by the time of the battle of earth. Ok, the Asari on Thessia had some weeks to prepare...but what, exactly, were they supposed to do? Their tactics were good and they defended some of their colonies. But..."Unfortunately, the Reapers' greater numbers allowed them to accept certain losses". The Asari were simply outnumbered and outgunned, just like every other race before them.

[Vazgen]

Was Kahje ever attacked?

[themikefest]

For the time the asari had to prepare against the reapers, they failed to reveal the artifact they had hiding on Thessia. Only after the reapers knocked on their backdoor did they mention having an artifact. I would be curious how many lives could've been saved had they revealed the artifact earlier?

[Laughing_Man]

For the time the asari had to prepare against the reapers, they failed to reveal the artifact they had hiding on Thessia. Only after the reapers knocked on their backdoor did they mention having an artifact. I would be curious how many lives could've been saved had they revealed the artifact earlier?

 

Was it wrong of them to do so? Yeah, probably. But do you think that the humans would have done better? Or that the other races didn't keep potentially vital secrets?

 

All in all, the Asari were relatively gentle rulers, and served to balance the various powers rather admirably for a long time.

So yes, they deserve their little secrets. In the hand of the Turians their power would have had the galaxy under the rule of an empire not very different from the Prothean one. And the Salarians, well, like Wrex said, their brains are like a maze, so no real way to know what would have happend aside from the obvious: There would have been involved some rather twisted conspiracies in well... everything.

[Laughing_Man]

Was Kahje ever attacked?

 

Good question. Can't imagine that their automated defenses would have held for long.

[WildOrchid]

Was it wrong of them to do so? Yeah, probably. But do you think that the humans would have done better? Or that the other races didn't keep potentially vital secrets?

 

This. There's no way none wouldn't keep it a secret if that would mean great potential for their own race. Everyone is selfish.

 

I wonder what some would say if humans found and kept the beacon instead.

 

 

"It was necessary".

[themikefest]

Was it wrong of them to do so? Yeah, probably. But do you think that the humans would have done better? Or that the other races didn't keep potentially vital secrets?

None of the other species were hiding a prothean artifact
 

All in all, the Asari were relatively gentle rulers, and served to balance the various powers rather admirably for a long time.
So yes, they deserve their little secrets,

How many lives could've been saved had that secret been revealed earlier? For a relatively gentle ruler, they sure don't give a crap about the other species

 

[Laughing_Man]

None of the other species were hiding a prothean artifact
 

How many lives could've been saved had that secret been revealed earlier? For a relatively gentle ruler, they sure don't give a crap about the other species

 

You mean, as far as we know, right?

 

Only, that during ME3 we seem to find dozens of little Prothean artifacts floating in space all over near planets that were attacked by the Reapers.

I would wager, that just about any race would have hidden everything that they could have gotten away with, and not out of malicious intent, but rather self-preservation.

 

No doubt, whoever was the bureaucrat who made the decision to keep hiding the Prothean beacon has blood on her hands.

 

But let me ask you, how many lives would have been saved if the council would have listened earlier?

The Answer: Irrelevant.

 

In both these cases there is a basic psychological instinct at work. You tell someone that Cthulhu actually exists.

What do you think will happen? At first they will deny it as best they can, and then they will deny it again and hold tightly to every security blanket they have.

 

The Beacon on Thesia is a great big glowing security blanket.

[Undead Han]

 

Funny since  Shepard finished the ardat yakshi mission for them

 

That's because as the protagonist, Shepard is a special snowflake. He or she is always going to succeed where others fail, and any time Shepard runs across allies in missions it is always going to be up to Shepard, rather than those allies, to save the day. The same thing occurs on Menae where Shepard fixes the Turian comm tower, on Sur'Kesh where Shepard rescues the Krogan Cerberus is after, on Tuchanka where Shepard destroys the sole Reaper on the planet, and with the Quarians needing Shepard to both destroy the Geth dreadnought and the lone Reaper on Rannoch.

 

In any case one failure doesn't alter the lore that the Asari field the galaxy's best soldiers. In the real world there isn't an elite military organization in existence with a significant combat record, that hasn't also lost a couple fights. 

 

But the Reapers avoided them. Why? There's a reason. In military history, there's always a reason why a conquering invader avoids a potential target. Usually, it's that the target provides a combination of a staunch defense and not much to offer. Whatever the exact composition thereof, the Salarians didn't look like very tempting targets for the Reapers, and so the Reapers avoided them.

 

 

 

There is no indication that the Reapers saved Sur'Kesh for last out of any fear of Salarian military prowess. The Reapers were qualitatively superior to every other faction in the galaxy, and possibly quantitatively superior as well. With a smaller fleet than both the Turians and the Asari, there is no reason why the Reapers should have viewed them as more of a threat. 

 

That the other Council races were struck first might also indicate that the Reapers viewed them as less of a threat than the others. For a real world comparison, during the Second World War (apologies for the Godwin) the United States adopted a Germany first strategy. Having said that...I'm not sure why the Alliance would be viewed as more of a threat than the Turians, Asari, or Salarians (smaller fleet than each), but the series did too often venture into the humans are special trope.

 

 

Tuchanka was most definitely invaded. Maybe not by a large force, but those Brutes and Marauders and Cannibals sure weren't tourists fresh off a cruise ship. Earth and Palaven didn't have an advance warning of any real kind. A bunch of Batarians showed up; that doesn't really mean anything before the fact. Khar'shan got whacked and shut down before anyone knew what was going on. Thessia got hit after Khar'shan, after Earth, after Palaven, after Tuchanka, even after Cerby attempted a commando raid on Sur'Kesh. Didn't matter. Even with advance intelligence, they didn't adequately prepare their defenses.

 

 

I'm not sure what went down on Tuchanka can be called an invasion. A single Reaper was sent there, and a smaller one at that, with a comparative handful of troops. At best that operation was a raid and not an invasion. As far as the Reapers are concerned Tuchanka seems very much a sideshow compared to the invasions of Khar'Shan, Earth, Palaven, Irune, Dekunna, and Thessia. Further indication that Tuchanka was a relatively small scale and limited military operation by the Reapers is that after Shepard sorts things out the Krogan are free to reinforce the Turians on Palaven and take part in the counterattack on Irune, rather than being bogged down defending their own turf.