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[themikefest]

Does that matter? Did the United Kingdom, the Soviet Union, and the United States not win the Second World War because it was an allied effort? The great majority of modern wars involve coalitions.

Yeah it does matter. The asari did not win it single handedly. They won with the help of the other species.

When someone asks me who won WW2, I tell them it was a number of countries allied together and not just one country that won the war
 
 

Maybe. Maybe not. In any case they had won battles against the Reapers while the Alliance had not,

I doubt they would have had the reapers invaded Thessia at the beginning
 

Someone a little more clever than Traynor's opponent would have taken advantage of the opportunity Shepard laid out for her. Shepard was asking to get owned.

There's the problem. Where's an asari when you need one to make Shepard look bad?
 
 

The Asari won both wars as well.

With help from the Turians and Salarians
 

The battles are worth mentioning because they debunk the notion some people have that the Asari can't fight. The Krogan lost both battles, and at Cyone they assaulted the planet several times and were consistently repulsed. Not that the battles are really needed as examples. The lore explicitly states that the Asari have a reputation for fielding the galaxy's best soldiers.

Having the best doesn't guarantee a victory in war

[Undead Han]

Yeah it does matter. The asari did not win it single handedly. They won with the help of the other species.

When someone asks me who won WW2, I tell them it was a number of countries allied together and not just one country that won the war
 

 

The Asari were on the winning side of both conflicts. That both wars involved coalitions in no way changes that fact, just as the United States or the United Kingdom also won the Second World War. When Shepard asks if the Asari have ever won a war it makes it sound like he/she has never heard of either the Rachni Wars or the Krogan Rebellion. 

 

 

I doubt they would have had the reapers invaded Thessia at the beginning

 

 

Maybe. But that is purely in the realm of speculation. Up to that point the Alliance had failed to win a battle while the Asari Republics had. Smack talk usually only works when you have something to back it up, and Shepard didn't. The Alliance had a goose's egg in the W column.

 

 

With help from the Turians and Salarians

 

Having the best doesn't guarantee a victory in war

 

It doesn't, but the Asari have yet to lose a war. Shepard's comment implies the opposite.

[themikefest]

The Asari were on the winning side of both conflicts. That both wars involved coalitions in no way changes that fact, just as the United States or the United Kingdom also won the Second World War. When Shepard asks if the Asari have ever won a war it makes it sound like he/she has never heard of either the Rachni Wars or the Krogan Rebellion.

Would a Shepard in a default ME3 playthrough know about those?
 

Maybe. But that is purely in the realm of speculation. Up to that point the Alliance had failed to win a battle while the Asari Republics had. Smack talk usually only works when you have something to back it up, and Shepard didn't. The Alliance had a goose's egg in the W column.

It's interesting only the codex mentions asari winning anything, but when we see them in game they suck. Look at the destiny ascension. Why didn't it fire back at the geth before the Alliance showed up? Yes the ship is seen firing a few missiles when Sovereign first shows up. Why don't we see them firing their main gun? Isn't it suppose to be the most powerful ship the asari have? The same can be said when heading to Earth. Why aren't they seen firing their weapons
 
 

[SwobyJ]

"Have the asari ever won a war?" is just a psyche out because the opponent is a single asari standing alone. It worked.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Humans got the better of the Hegemony on multiple occasions. Humans also haven't been the de facto leaders of the Galaxy for thousands of years, so there's a lot less of a burden to win the really big wars like there is on the Council races.

 

 

The Asari beat the Krogan in the Rebellions in a handful of major engagements but it didn't matter because Asari don't breed and mature anywhere near as fast as Krogan do. Without the Genophage, they would've been overwhelmed. The Salarians and Turians wouldn't have fared much better, really.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Right. Genetic information. Which is stored in genetic material. Which is the entire reason it's called "genetic material" in the first place.

Honestly is it so hard to comprehend that, semantically speaking, maybe "genetic material" and "genetic information" might be the same thing, considering that they both lead to the same result of a being with 2 sets of genetic code, spliced together, to form a new being.

What I mean is that there is no exchange of physical substances. Their reproduction method is vastly superior to our own. One asari can ensure her species survival. Us humans need a male and female and then things get all incestuous and gross.

Ew.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Humans got the better of the Hegemony on multiple occasions. Humans also haven't been the de facto leaders of the Galaxy for thousands of years, so there's a lot less of a burden to win the really big wars like there is on the Council races.


The Asari beat the Krogan in the Rebellions in a handful of major engagements but it didn't matter because Asari don't breed and mature anywhere near as fast as Krogan do. Without the Genophage, they would've been overwhelmed. The Salarians and Turians wouldn't have fared much better, really.

Actually I don't believe the Genophage was even necessary. The krogan only held an advantage in ground battles. They were outclassed in every other category. Their defeat was inevitable.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Would a Shepard in a default ME3 playthrough know about those?

It's interesting only the codex mentions asari winning anything, but when we see them in game they suck. Look at the destiny ascension. Why didn't it fire back at the geth before the Alliance showed up? Yes the ship is seen firing a few missiles when Sovereign first shows up. Why don't we see them firing their main gun? Isn't it suppose to be the most powerful ship the asari have? The same can be said when heading to Earth. Why aren't they seen firing their weapons

You know how it is man. Gotta make the humans look good. Shepherd in particular.

[Laughing_Man]

Actually I don't believe the Genophage was even necessary. The krogan only held an advantage in ground battles. They were outclassed in every other category. Their defeat was inevitable.

 

I am... not so sure about that. My understanding is that the Krogan had enough mad scientist types to provide them with armaments technology and ships. Sure, it might be of low tech relatively, but Krogan favor heavy armor, sheer fire-power, and before the Genophage - high numbers. That's enough to cause trouble.

 

Essentially, with their numbers they are almost as dangerous as the Zerg, the Orks of WH40K, or indeed ME version of creepy crawlies - the Rachni.

[Laughing_Man]

It's interesting only the codex mentions asari winning anything, but when we see them in game they suck. Look at the destiny ascension. Why didn't it fire back at the geth before the Alliance showed up? Yes the ship is seen firing a few missiles when Sovereign first shows up. Why don't we see them firing their main gun? Isn't it suppose to be the most powerful ship the asari have? The same can be said when heading to Earth. Why aren't they seen firing their weapons

 

That's one of the problems of ME. They *tell* you many things, they don't *show* you enough.

 

They tell you that Shep is a big goddam hero, an N7, and an impressive warrior no matter what background or class you chose.

But then we have the cutscenes, in which we are forced to watch cringing, as Bumbling-Dude!Shep waddles his way awkwardly all over the place,

in a way that makes Blasto more intimidating.

 

This is a problem Bioware needs to work on, their animations are outdated, they suck.

An epic story like ME was supposed to be before the ending came, deserves animation on a different level.

[Arisugawa]

I am... not so sure about that. My understanding is that the Krogan had enough mad scientist types to provide them with armaments technology and ships. Sure, it might be of low tech relatively, but Krogan favor heavy armor, sheer fire-power, and before the Genophage - high numbers. That's enough to cause trouble.

 

Essentially, with their numbers they are almost as dangerous as the Zerg, the Orks of WH40K, or indeed ME version of creepy crawlies - the Rachni.

 

The krogan never surrendered a battle, which means those battles where the krogan were defeated were fought literally to the last krogan before allied opposition could claim victory.And they had enough of a navy that they were able to drop asteroids onto turian colonies. This is mentioned a few times, and this tactic (according the codex, anyway) left at least three colonies uninhabitable. That's not an enemy that one merely concerns themselves with in a ground war.

 

That's essentially three dextro-garden worlds ruined because the krogan were using asteroids for orbital bombardment. If Primarch Victus is not being overly dramatic, the moon of Menae around Palaven is essentially where the turians were holding the line against the krogan before the genophage began dwindling the numbers of krogan reinforcements to the point that the battle in Palavan space was not winnable for the krogan forces. It's a fair bet the turians felt certain the krogan were going to toss asteroids, or pieces of the moon if Menae fell, at Palavan and ruin it as well. It would be for humans the equivalent of losing Terra Nova, Eden Prime, and Bekenstein to orbit bombardment and our navy is desperately trying to hold the krogan back at Luna to prevent them from launching rocks in our asteroid belt toward our home planet.

 

It's easy to sit and judge the horror of the genophage through the eyes of Wrex and Bakara, but they are not representative of the krogan of that era. If anything, the krogan of the Rebellion were closer to Wreav in spirit than anyone else we met as Shepard. And if you think Wrex would have been the Wrex you know had he been born prior to the deployment of the genophage, I think you're being terribly optimistic.The more likely scenario is without the horror of the genophage to change his perspectives, Wrex would have been just like the other krogan of that era, and perhaps even more ruthless.

 

It's difficult to fathom the scope of the enemy and how badly things were going for the Council races at the time until the genophage was deployed. If anything, it's amazing that the krogan actually surrendered at all, given their tendency to fight to the last soldier prior to the genophage deployment. WIthout the genophage, they would have wiped the turians out as assuredly as they tried to wipe out the rachni.

[KrrKs]

Right. Genetic information. Which is stored in genetic material. Which is the entire reason it's called "genetic material" in the first place.

 

Honestly is it so hard to comprehend that, semantically speaking, maybe "genetic material" and "genetic information" might be the same thing, considering that they both lead to the same result of a being with 2 sets of genetic code, spliced together, to form a new being.

There is an additional hurdle though, the DNA of aliens may or may not (it really *should* be the former) completely different constructed than what the Asari use.

So there is a form of translation necessary, it is not directly the DNA (or whatever) of the partner that is used, instead it is a approximated translation mapped onto the Asari DNA-structure.

 

That Asari are able to do this in the first place is about as plausible as the Prothean memory-reading, cipher and other such stuff

[Cainhurst Crow]

I just find it funny that asari can "meld" with so many things yet only produce blue or purple super model physique female looking monogender creatures.

You figure one of them would come out a little on the muscly side or lanky side sometimes, or maybe become a shade of some color other then blue or purple. Maybe a shade of purplish-red or something.

[WildOrchid]

You know how it is man. Gotta make the humans look good. Shepherd in particular.

 

Ofc. The game clearly favored the humans. As every single one game out there with many different races. Humans always have to look better at everything hurr durr.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Actually I don't believe the Genophage was even necessary. The krogan only held an advantage in ground battles. They were outclassed in every other category. Their defeat was inevitable.

 

No, the Krogan were winning the war all-around. Their navy wasn't particularly good, but it was great in numbers, because the Krogan could harvest resources and produce ships en masse due to their staggering numbers.

 

The Council could win 9 out of 10 battles with the Krogan but it was irrelevant because Krogan numbers replenished more quickly than they could be killed. The Krogan Rebellions were wars of attrition, but the pre-Genophage rate at which the Krogan suffered from attrition was minimal.

[Treacherous J Slither]

No, the Krogan were winning the war all-around. Their navy wasn't particularly good, but it was great in numbers, because the Krogan could harvest resources and produce ships en masse due to their staggering numbers.

The Council could win 9 out of 10 battles with the Krogan but it was irrelevant because Krogan numbers replenished more quickly than they could be killed. The Krogan Rebellions were wars of attrition, but the pre-Genophage rate at which the Krogan suffered from attrition was minimal.

The Council races combined outnumbered the krogan in manpower and ships. Krogan tech isn't on par with asari, salarian, or even turian tech. The key to victory is simple. Destroy the krogan navy and then nuke the planet from space. The only reason why the Council races were having a hard time is because they weren't willing to destroy habitable worlds and non combatants to defeat their enemy. The krogan however obeyed no rules of war and did as they pleased. The war raged on and on until the brilliant salarians offered an alternative that wouldn't cost the galaxy countless resources and innocent lives.

[Treacherous J Slither]

I just find it funny that asari can "meld" with so many things yet only produce blue or purple super model physique female looking monogender creatures.

You figure one of them would come out a little on the muscly side or lanky side sometimes, or maybe become a shade of some color other then blue or purple. Maybe a shade of purplish-red or something.

*shrugs* Superior asari physiology man. They're not the master race for nothing. Don't hate trip; WORSHIP!

[Treacherous J Slither]

I am... not so sure about that. My understanding is that the Krogan had enough mad scientist types to provide them with armaments technology and ships. Sure, it might be of low tech relatively, but Krogan favor heavy armor, sheer fire-power, and before the Genophage - high numbers. That's enough to cause trouble.

Essentially, with their numbers they are almost as dangerous as the Zerg, the Orks of WH40K, or indeed ME version of creepy crawlies - the Rachni.

Think about it. High numbers on various worlds but ships that are low tech. Even if they bust their humps building as many as possible, the superior Council race ships would rip them apart. After the primitive ships are down the planetside forces are defenseless against orbital strikes. That famous krogan durability doesn't count for much when you're getting nuked from space.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

The Council races combined outnumbered the krogan in manpower and ships. Krogan tech isn't on par with asari, salarian, or even turian tech. The key to victory is simple. Destroy the krogan navy and then nuke the planet from space. The only reason why the Council races were having a hard time is because they weren't willing to destroy habitable worlds and non combatants to defeat their enemy. The krogan however obeyed no rules of war and did as they pleased. The war raged on and on until the brilliant salarians offered an alternative that wouldn't cost the galaxy countless resources and innocent lives.

 

I don't know where you're getting your information on populations, but the Codex says that Krogan manpower was increasing from the start of the war until the Genophage was introduced. And it's not a matter of technology. Krogan technology was behind Council tech but not that far to where it ultimately weakened their war effort. They had FTL and interstellar travel and the means to use moons and asteroids for planetary bombardment. They had industrial capacity. SPECTRE intervention wasn't enough. Turian intervention wasn't enough. Only after the Genophage did the Krogan lose the backbone of their war machine (their manpower) and that was how they lost. Their navy couldn't be destroyed because they could replace entire fleets and crews in record time. Even if you could conventionally defeat their navy, using nuclear weaponry was meaningless because Tuchanka and other Krogan worlds were/are equipped with bunkers to support a substantial number of Krogan.

 

The Krogan lost because of the Genophage. No Genophage, the Asari and Salarians and Turians probably would have lost. We don't know that for certain, but since it's strongly suggested in all relevant in-game lore, it's all that matters.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I just find it funny that asari can "meld" with so many things yet only produce blue or purple super model physique female looking monogender creatures.

You figure one of them would come out a little on the muscly side or lanky side sometimes, or maybe become a shade of some color other then blue or purple. Maybe a shade of purplish-red or something.

 

I mean if you could produce blue or purple monogendered goddesses at will when mating with with something as ugly as a krogan, wouldn't you?

[Treacherous J Slither]

I don't know where you're getting your information on populations, but the Codex says that Krogan manpower was increasing from the start of the war until the Genophage was introduced. And it's not a matter of technology. Krogan technology was behind Council tech but not that far to where it ultimately weakened their war effort. They had FTL and interstellar travel and the means to use moons and asteroids for planetary bombardment. They had industrial capacity. SPECTRE intervention wasn't enough. Turian intervention wasn't enough. Only after the Genophage did the Krogan lose the backbone of their war machine (their manpower) and that was how they lost. Their navy couldn't be destroyed because they could replace entire fleets and crews in record time. Even if you could conventionally defeat their navy, using nuclear weaponry was meaningless because Tuchanka and other Krogan worlds were/are equipped with bunkers to support a substantial number of Krogan.

The Krogan lost because of the Genophage. No Genophage, the Asari and Salarians and Turians probably would have lost. We don't know that for certain, but since it's strongly suggested in all relevant in-game lore, it's all that matters.

Tech matters. A recently uplifted race isn't going to be able to create tech that can stand up to that of the more advanced races.

After the krogan lose their fleet, they have to build more and get them into space. That's pretty difficult to do when your enemy is already there with tougher, stronger ships and they obliterate you before you can get off the ground.

They will be forced to huddle in their bunkers, struggling to feed their growing numbers with irradiated food. At this point the turians can freely proceed with destroying the planet by nuking it's core.

/krogan threat.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Tech matters. A recently uplifted race isn't going to be able to create tech that can stand up to that of the more advanced races.

After the krogan lose their fleet, they have to build more and get them into space. That's pretty difficult to do when your enemy is already there with tougher, stronger ships and they obliterate you before you can get off the ground.

They will be forced to huddle in their bunkers, struggling to feed their growing numbers with irradiated food. At this point the turians can freely proceed with destroying the planet by nuking it's core.

/krogan threat.

 

But the Krogan didn't lose their fleets because their increasing numbers were making the war more difficult for the Council. That heavily implies that they had a fleet to match, because in the Mass Effect series, a military without a fleet lacks the capability to wage wars.

 

There's no proof within the codex or any in-game lore that the Krogan military's technology outweighed their numerical superiority. They were probably behind somewhat, but not enough that it mattered. They were waging a war of attrition with the Council, the Council was losing that war, and that's why they deployed the Genophage. That's the only information we have to go on, and the only information that matters. Hypotheticals about the effectiveness of nuclear weapons don't mean anything because that's not what happened in the story.

[Laughing_Man]

I just find it funny that asari can "meld" with so many things yet only produce blue or purple super model physique female looking monogender creatures.

You figure one of them would come out a little on the muscly side or lanky side sometimes, or maybe become a shade of some color other then blue or purple. Maybe a shade of purplish-red or something.

 

That's just one more example for where ME art falls short.

 

You don't see variety in Asari for the same reasons you don't see it in Salarians, Turians, and every other race out there.

Hell, there is only one *human* body type as far as I can tell.

 

So yeah, just go ahead and head-canon some variety into it, because this is likely the results of trying to cut costs on things that are "not important".

[Treacherous J Slither]

But the Krogan didn't lose their fleets because their increasing numbers were making the war more difficult for the Council. That heavily implies that they had a fleet to match, because in the Mass Effect series, a military without a fleet lacks the capability to wage wars.

There's no proof within the codex or any in-game lore that the Krogan military's technology outweighed their numerical superiority. They were probably behind somewhat, but not enough that it mattered. They were waging a war of attrition with the Council, the Council was losing that war, and that's why they deployed the Genophage. That's the only information we have to go on, and the only information that matters. Hypotheticals about the effectiveness of nuclear weapons don't mean anything because that's not what happened in the story.

Sooo you're saying the krogan had a massive fleet and were kicking the galaxies collective *** because they bred quickly and were able to build ships and man them faster than their more advanced enemies could destroy them regardless of their enemies superior technology, tactics and experience at interplanetary warfare?

Sure. That makes sense. >_>

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Sooo you're saying the krogan had a massive fleet and were kicking the galaxies collective *** because they bred quickly and were able to build ships and man them faster than their more advanced enemies could destroy them regardless of their enemies superior technology, tactics and experience at interplanetary warfare?

Sure. That makes sense. >_>

 

Pretty much, because that's what the codex says. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯