282 réponses à ce sujet

[Laughing_Man]

Highly doubtful. I fail to see how some asari commando would read up on ancient human culture and name themselves after a "chooser of the slain" of all things. Is she roaming the battlefield for the dead or something? Ridiculous.

 

Well, Asari culture seems have a degree of facination with romantic ideas, it could be that what appealed to them was more along the lines of badass female warriors, bringing the wrath of the gods (or Goddess) on their enemies.

 

I'm not saying that it's any more likely than my first explanation, or from assuming that whoever wrote that was just looking for a cool name... (which sadly is the most probable explanation...)

[Treacherous J Slither]

Well, Asari culture seems have a degree of facination with romantic ideas, it could be that what appealed to them was more along the lines of badass female warriors, bringing the wrath of the gods (or Goddess) on their enemies.

I'm not saying that it's any more likely than my first explanation, or from assuming that whoever wrote that was just looking for a cool name... (which sadly is the most probable explanation...)

Sadly yes.

Hopefully the next time they do multiplayer they put a lot more effort into it. Stick to lore and all that.

[SwobyJ]

*spills drink* WHAT?!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris

Don't expect 'alien' to be 100% alien in Mass Effect. Always some connection to something human.

[Laughing_Man]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris

Don't expect 'alien' to be 100% alien in Mass Effect. Always some connection to something human.

 

I remember that the Asari were supposed to be influenced somewhat by the ancient Egyptians, but what is the connection with Osiris?

[SwobyJ]

I remember that the Asari were supposed to be influenced somewhat by the ancient Egyptians, but what is the connection with Osiris?

 

Not significant. Just IMO an at least generalized amalgamation of the cultures of ancient civilizations and religions/mythologies.

 

Lots of interpretations of symbols and lots of crackpot theories, but nothing I can say here with certainty.

 

Osiris might fit in the respect that Osiris has to do with the cycle of death. So. Yeah, cycle of death. Could go deeper here but again, that'd be crackpot theories.

[Laughing_Man]

Not significant. Just IMO an at least generalized amalgamation of the cultures of ancient civilizations and religions/mythologies.

 

Lots of interpretations of symbols and lots of crackpot theories, but nothing I can say here with certainty.

 

Osiris might fit in the respect that Osiris has to do with the cycle of death. So. Yeah, cycle of death. Could go deeper here but again, that'd be crackpot theories.

 

You are in crackpot theory central, go ahead, you know you want to...

[SwobyJ]

Something something about the true nature of the Asari being tied to Leviathans or something like that, being a species that acts as agents that exist in all cycles and part of a larger plan of things.

 

Not going to get into it, but I will say that I wouldn't be surprised if NME does another 'dark side of the asari (but maybe redemption)' like ME2 did but even further, unlike the 'Asari are good but maybe have troubles' like ME1 and ME3.

 

I tend to take DLC content as hints of some nature (the nature varies but I don't get into that), and seeing what may be an asari temple in the Citadel DLC arena may mean something.

[Heimerdinger]

Are the asari the master race? They seem innately superior to all the other races. How are they not running everything?

 

They are running everything, with diplomacy and compromise. By themselves they're not that strong, they rely on salarians for intel and turians for military might. That all ended with the arrival of the reapers. With the turians bogged down in a fight for their own planet, the humans busy on the Crucible (plus Earth lost) and the salarians scared shitless, the asari where on their own and didn't last long.

[Laughing_Man]

They are running everything, with diplomacy and compromise. By themselves they're not that strong, they rely on salarians for intel and turians for military might. That all ended with the arrival of the reapers. With the turians bogged down in a fight for their own planet, the humans busy on the Crucible (plus Earth lost) and the salarians scared shitless, the asari where on their own and didn't last long.

 

Nobody lasted long. Even the Turian / Krogan forces held too long in my estimation, because yay for teamwork, and Shepard (the player) had to feel like he did something despite the fact that fighting over that moon was utterly pointless. This was an excercise in wishful thinking.

 

When the enemy is Reapers, everyone sucks. It says absolutely nothing about the effectiveness of any speacies in open warfare.

[Heimerdinger]

Nobody lasted long. Even the Turian / Krogan forces held too long in my estimation, because yay for teamwork, and Shepard (the player) had to feel like he did something despite the fact that fighting over that moon was utterly pointless. This was an excercise in wishful thinking.

 

When the enemy is Reapers, everyone sucks. It says absolutely nothing about the effectiveness of any speacies in open warfare.

 

Maybe I wasn't very fair, no race can hold it's own against the reapers (at least not for long). But I still think the asari depend on the other races as allies, they can't run the show like the Protheans did in their cycle. Now that I think about it, the Protheans actually were the master race of their cycle.

 

Edit: Looking back in history, the asari didn't do well against the rachni or krogan, even with the salarians at their side they still required military aid. The asari fleets are good and their huntresses are brilliant in hit and run tactics, sabotage and so on. But when it comes to open war where you need military might and big numbers the asari have a weakness. As Aethyta says "Our people are just not built for the front ranks". They simply need their allies.

Modifié par Heimerdinger, 23 mai 2015 - 06:52 .

[Laughing_Man]

Maybe I wasn't very fair, no race can hold it's own against the reapers (at least not for long). But I still think the asari depend on the other races as allies, they can't run the show like the Protheans did in their cycle. Now that I think about it, the Protheans actually were the master race of their cycle.

 

Edit: Looking back in history, the asari didn't do well against the rachni or krogan, even with the salarians at their side they still required military aid. The asari fleets are good and their huntresses are brilliant in hit and run tactics, sabotage and so on. But when it comes to open war where you need military might and big numbers the asari have a weakness. As Aethyta says "Our people are just not built for the front ranks". They simply need their allies.

 

The simple truth is that no one is really built for the front lines, aside from maybe Krogan or Vorcha. Everyone else are going to die very quickly after taking one in the head or two to the chest.

 

It's all a matter of how hard you train your soldiers, their dicsipline, morale, equipment, logistics, good tactical commanders, good communications, etc.

Every species need all of the above and more. The Turians are good technical soldiers because of training and military culture, not because they have a biological racial advantage.

 

There is much video-game logic and unrealistic ideas about the citadel races being a part of a giant game of rock paper scissors in ME, and that's before the liberal use the writers made of the idiot's ball.

 

Essentially, there is no reason for the Asari to be any less effective soldiers than anyone else. And the fact that every one of them is a biotic should have had more weight. Benezia and Aethyta are both good examples for no-nonsense Asari Matriarchs that understand the dangers of the galaxy.

 

A shame the rest were handed the idiot's ball.

 

 

P.S.

Loved your signature.

[Treacherous J Slither]

The simple truth is that no one is really built for the front lines, aside from maybe Krogan or Vorcha. Everyone else are going to die very quickly after taking one in the head or two to the chest.

It's all a matter of how hard you train your soldiers, their dicsipline, morale, equipment, logistics, good tactical commanders, good communications, etc.
Every species need all of the above and more. The Turians are good technical soldiers because of training and military culture, not because they have a biological racial advantage.

There is much video-game logic and unrealistic ideas about the citadel races being a part of a giant game of rock paper scissors in ME, and that's before the liberal use the writers made of the idiot's ball.

Essentially, there is no reason for the Asari to be any less effective soldiers than anyone else. And the fact that every one of them is a biotic should have had more weight. Benezia and Aethyta are both good examples for no-nonsense Asari Matriarchs that understand the dangers of the galaxy.

A shame the rest were handed the idiot's ball.


P.S.
Loved your signature.

^Said everything I was gonna say...

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Liara calculated that the war would last about two years, and the complete harvesting of the galaxy 100. I think the message was we were getting our asses kicked. What's the difference if you last six months or a year? Or two years? In the end you're still reaper chow.

 

If it weren't for the crucible, I think that one civilization had it right. Nuke themselves and get it done rather than end up as reaper chow.

 

The  reapers were coming in with enough nearly invulnerable ships to blacken the sky of every world. How do you stop it? There aren't enough ship yards to build enough ships fast enough. And the reapers were pretty small, too. When you're fighting enemies as tall as a mountain, you need space magic and Space Jesus.

[Undead Han]

Liara's estimate might have been even been too optimistic. Shepard can read a confidential Volus report on the state of the galactic economy that predicts if the war continues on its current course that the galactic economy will completely collapse by year's end.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Galactic economy and end of war can be two different things.

 

Now onto the Asari society. They never developed this gold mine. I mean they really could have subverted the blue space babes trope. That civilization had to come from somewhere. Think about it. Before they met other species they had to do all that stuff on their own. That meant there were Asari construction workers, Asari sanitation workers, Asari firemen, Asari Cops, Asari Engineers, and Asari in every kind of job in their society. People with real jobs, not just dancers and bartenders and a few commandos. They also had to build their own spaceships and war ships. That meant welders, riveters, union workers.

 

But what do we see? Strippers, a couple bartenders, and a few commandos and some mercs. Aside from the Councilor, Liara, and Samara

[SwobyJ]

I was under the impression that they (relatively) stagnated for 1000s of years, not 100s. So the current crop has a set system that they don't want to shake up. So they allow the stripper --> mating --> matriarch  (with commando as an option otherwise) sort of path (as a culturally stereotypical example) to happen. Liara's father is one of the relative few who would want to shake things up, try to understand more of the workings of the universe etc, but the matriarchs say no, and prefer galactic stability - even when that's only an illusion.

 

I think with this level of tech, sure, there's welders, riveters, etc, but there wouldn't be nearly as many (in ratio but maybe even in numbers) than the lessers like humanity. Basically, the asari are already relatively 'set', sitting on 'top' of the achievements of others (other Council members, other Citadel members, Prothian uplifting, far past asari generations).

 

Blue space babes trope (is that fully a thing? heh) wasn't 'subverted' outright, no, but it was at least highlighted occasionally as a flaw of a culture.

[Undead Han]

 

Edit: Looking back in history, the asari didn't do well against the rachni or krogan, even with the salarians at their side they still required military aid. The asari fleets are good and their huntresses are brilliant in hit and run tactics, sabotage and so on. But when it comes to open war where you need military might and big numbers the asari have a weakness. As Aethyta says "Our people are just not built for the front ranks". They simply need their allies.

 

The bolded actually isn't quite true. While it took an allied effort to defeat the Rachni and Krogan, much like the world wars in our own history, there is no indication that the Asari military didn't perform well. In fact the little bit of lore we get on the Krogan Rebellion implies the opposite. Of the two campaigns we know about from that war, both involved Asari forces defeating the Krogan. In the case of Cyone the Krogan assaulted the planet several times and were repeatedly repulsed by the Asari ground forces, before the Asari fleet finally counterattacked, cut the Krogan supply line, and drove them out of the system. The Cyone campaign was solely between Asari & the Krogan, and the Asari decisively defeated them.

 

Also according to the lore the Asari field pound for pound the galaxy's finest soldiers. The Turians just have a lot more of them.

[Arisugawa]

The bolded actually isn't quite true. While it took an allied effort to defeat the Rachni and Krogan, much like the world wars in our own history, there is no indication that the Asari military didn't perform well. In fact the little bit of lore we get on the Krogan Rebellion implies the opposite. Of the two campaigns we know about from that war, both involved Asari forces defeating the Krogan. In the case of Cyone the Krogan assaulted the planet several times and were repeatedly repulsed by the Asari ground forces, before the Asari fleet finally counterattacked, cut the Krogan supply line, and drove them out of the system. The Cyone campaign was solely between Asari & the Krogan, and the Asari decisively defeated them.

 

Also according to the lore the Asari field pound for pound the galaxy's finest soldiers. The Turians just have a lot more of them.

 

And if one reads the planetary codex entries for Mass Effect 3, the Reapers actually have a very difficult task in trying to break asari resistance on the ground. That's the problem one is going to run into when waging war against a species that is naturally biotic - humans, turians, and krogans may have a handful of biotics in their ranks but every asari in military service is biotic. It's difficult to conceive of this because we don't really get to see the asari in Mass Effect 3 doing much more than reinforcing barriers or holding positions, but if we take an entirely biotic team from the mulitplayer and multiply the detonations, the singularities, the tossing about of enemies using throw or and lift by a factor of about one hundred, that is what it would be like to face the asari army to army. Then factor in their weapons, gunships, etc. Taking an asari homeworld without orbital bombardment is a fool's errand. The Reapers, the rachni, and the krogan, merely have or had the advantage of being able to send wave after wave of enemies at the asari and will eventually win by attrition. It is not by accident that every army to threaten the asari have had the advantage of replacing losses very, very quickly.

 

If there were more asari (or as Joker not so gently put it, more asari in military service instead of diplomatic or artistic endeavors), they would be a much greater military force.

[Heimerdinger]

@Arisugawa

 

I think you're taking the multiplayer way too seriously. Biotics are no easy business, throw too many warps and lifts around and you won't be able to lift even a rifle soon due to extreme fatigue. Drew Karphyshyn's books explain this better than the game itself, biotics are a carefully used resource. Sure, biotics are formidable but the MP spam fest (and to some extent the SP in 3) is just for fun, there is some serious lore bending there.

[Mordokai]

@Arisugawa

 

I think you're taking the multiplayer way too seriously. Biotics are no easy business, throw too many warps and lifts around and you won't be able to lift even a rifle soon due to extreme fatigue. Drew Karphyshyn's books explain this better than the game itself, biotics are a carefully used resource. Sure, biotics are formidable but the MP spam fest (and to some extent the SP in 3) is just for fun, there is some serious lore bending there.

 

I believe when you save the students on Grissom academy(if Jack is dead), Prangley will say they have been fighting for over an hour. With a good team, a multiplayer match will be over well before that and we're talking about a well trained warriors here and galaxy best biotics, not terrified students. So it's not outside realms of possibility that a continuous half an hour of biotic slinging is achievable.

 

A sustained pressure from enemy force and no(or at least little of it) chance for recuperation would leave asari forces in dire position, since they couldn't regain their strength. That's pretty much what happened on Thessia and we actually see that Shepard and co land there. However, I don't find it too unreasonable that the asari held a long time against the token force that Reapers probably sent against Thessia at the start of their campaign on annihilation..

 

I've seen what a well played and coordinated asari team can do to the enemy. Sure, they would be overrun sooner or later. But with the amount of damage those babes are able to dish out, you'd think nothing short of capitol Reaper should would stop them. And that's only four asari. There's a hell lot more asari on Thessia than just that.

[Laughing_Man]

@Arisugawa

 

I think you're taking the multiplayer way too seriously. Biotics are no easy business, throw too many warps and lifts around and you won't be able to lift even a rifle soon due to extreme fatigue. Drew Karphyshyn's books explain this better than the game itself, biotics are a carefully used resource. Sure, biotics are formidable but the MP spam fest (and to some extent the SP in 3) is just for fun, there is some serious lore bending there.

 

First and foremost, in ME and DA books, the writers simply made "good guys" with biotics or magic rather weak and pathetic, so they wouldn't have to invest the extra effort to deal with powerful friendly characters within their plot, and instead use the usual "heroic" tropes of - Luck, Teamwork, Villain being a stupid cliche', Surprise help from a new character, a deus ex machina, Fighting despite not having hope of winning, The power of various positive emotions, etc. - in order to move the plot.

 

Second, when it comes to biotics it is usually humans who are weak, which is understandable, after all, they are new to biotics.

However, they seem to improve very quickly as time passes. Krogan and Asari biotics were always portrayed as very powerful.

(Strangely enough, the Turian culture seems primitive enough to still distrust biotics even after being familiar with them for a very long time,

so they are not a very good example anyway)

 

The lore and the games make it quite clear that good biotics can fight effectively without weapons, relying only on on their biotic skills.

 

And that's without mentioning biotic monsters like veteran Asari Matriarchs, Justicars, and Krogan Battle-masters.

[Heimerdinger]

@Tzeentchian

 

I don't deny that an asari or krogan can be a force of nature when it comes to biotics. Even humans like Jack or biotic Shep. But I don't think the lore and gameplay match 100%. I mean Shepard with the right gear and max CD bonus can spam Pull every 2 seconds and Slam every 1.2 seconds. That's just...no.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

ME multi-player threw lore out the window. Asari were totally nerfed for game balance.

 

Lore shows Asari matriarchs like Aria T'loak and Matriarch Benezia. With someone like Aria being representative of older Asari, and Samara was able to hold that bubble on the Collector base. Loyal Jack being the only human who could and only because she was supposed to be the most powerful human biotic ever. And on Thessia, the commandos being able to create a barrier strong enough to hold back even brutes?

 

If Asari were made player characters and made to be as powerful as they were in lore, no one would ever play any other race, except for maybe Krogan.

[Laughing_Man]

@Tzeentchian

 

I don't deny that an asari or krogan can be a force of nature when it comes to biotics. Even humans like Jack or biotic Shep. But I don't think the lore and gameplay match 100%. I mean Shepard with the right gear and max CD bonus can spam Pull every 2 seconds and Slam every 1.2 seconds. That's just...no.

 

The entire idea of "cool-down" is a very game-y one.

If the "power" is not dependent on an separate power source like Mana, it should be the same as lifting weights,

swinging a sword, or being in constant fighting.

 

Whichever the activity is, using biotics for example, would be dependent on the level of fatigue the character feels.

 

The idea that you need to "nerf" "cool-powers" like magic or biotics using artificial restrictions like cool down, just so other classes would seem balanced and worth playing, is ludicrous if you consider it only from logic and lore standpoints.

The real world is never fair or "balanced", why should another universe be different?

 

Humans are generally squishy and weak relatively. Top human physical potential is still very low on the food-chain when compared to animals in nature.

A trans-human of any sort will have a major advantage over vanilla human, because their potential is on an entirely different scale.

A biotic can be at a good physical condition, have more or less similar training to other special-ops operatives, AND fling around dark energy.

 

Physical training has diminishing returns the higher you go with it, which means that the fact that the biotic may need an hour or three a day for biotic training, will not make a big difference between him and the next soldier, hell, constant biotic training may even improve endurance compared to other soldiers.

 

In short, a trained biotic operative should only be limited by his own skill, his level of fatigue, and perhaps a measure of concentration when it comes to delicate uses. Which in turn would enable a more or less continuous use until physical or mental exhaustion - which is actually what is needed to fight without weapons.

 

A good example would be S Julia's example above: biotics in ME2 holding the bubble until near exhaustion.

[Hrulj]

Regardless of their military/artistic prowess, Asari can be considered master race due to their ability to rebuild their entire race, by just one individual existing - children of Asari are always Asari, and Asari not mixing with each other would even help it