1452 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

And the writers are the ones who created whatever their vision entails.
 
"The last chapter of this book doesn't appeal to me, I'm going to rewrite it."
 
"This particular scene of a movie doesn't appeal to me, I'm going to re-shoot it."

And what's the problem with that, if the writer doesn't take action? As I said before, the writer can justifiedly complain about it, but nobody else. And even then, the stories we tell are ultimately public domain, even legally, once a certain time period has passed. Stories get changed all the time, of some old legends there are countless versions.

As I see it, that argument is secondary. Some people don't like certain mods, and then they pretend there is somehow an "objective" reason why it shouldn't be done. In the end, it all comes down to "I don't like what you've done and I want to prevent you from doing it again," and as long as you aren't doing any harm with it, there is absolutely zero justification for such an attitude.

[Melca36]

OK, that I can agree with. Though the line between "telling the writer how things could be better in my opinion" and "demanding a change" is blurry. For instance, I think DA2's "everyone is bi" setup felt highly artificial, and things would've been better had they worked as in DAI.

 

In DA2 Isabela was clearly Bi and Anders was Pan.  They were fine the way they are. The other characters were not clearly defined.

 

I liked how it was in Inquisition. I romanced Dorian with a male. I did made a cute dwarf for Sera. I rolled an elf for Solas. I had a female human for Cullen and have a male dwarf for IB and male Qunari for Cassandra

 

I love the replay value Inquisition has.

[AresKeith]

OK, that I can agree with. Though the line between "telling the writer how things could be better in my opinion" and "demanding a change" is blurry. For instance, I think DA2's "everyone is bi" setup felt highly artificial, and things would've been better had they worked as in DAI.

 

Treating bisexuality as a compromise isn't a setup imo

[Ieldra]

True indeed, but it doesn't change the fact the game is what it is and that's how it's supposed to be.

Sorry, but "being what it is" does not confer any merit. Also, you never know if it was supposed to be that way unless you can read the creators' minds, and even that doesn't give you any rationale to prevent people from making their own version.

[o Ventus]

And what's the problem with that, if the writer doesn't take action? As I said before, the writer can justifiedly complain about it, but nobody else. And even then, the stories we tell are ultimately public domain, even legally, once a certain time period has passed.

 

Only after a very long time, typically after the writer is dead. Now that corporations and companies are in charge of the properties, something like ME or DA may never enter the public domain, assuming the companies don't fail and go out of business.

 

Stories get changed all the time, of some old legends there are countless versions.

 

Religious myths and creation stories from the dawn of human history, yes. Not a novel of a film.

 

As I see it, that argument is secondary.

 

Likewise for the one your're presenting, only towards the other end of the spectrum.

 

Some people don't like certain mods, and then they pretend there is somehow an "objective" reason why it shouldn't be done. In the end, it all comes down to "I don't like what you've done and I want to prevent you from doing it again," and as long as you aren't doing any harm with it, there is absolutely zero justification for such an attitude.

 

If you feel you should qualify it with "some people", it probably isn't a statement worth making, because it should be patently obvious and doesn't need to be said.

[Legion of 1337]

Sorry, but "being what it is" does not confer any merit. Also, you never know if it was supposed to be that way unless you can read the creators' minds, and even that doesn't give you any rationale to prevent people from making their own version.

What they created is what they created. It is what it is. It is their creation. You can make up whatever fanfiction you want for it but it is not part of the story.

 

I'm not a believer in fan ownership of the canon.

[Raiil]

Ahh, the ME3 memories. Nostalgia..

 

 

Well, tbh, I do feel like the ME3 fiasco was slightly different. A lot of things were inferred (like the multiple endings) that really didn't come to pass, and how they treated the not as popular members of ME2 got under people's skin. Though I'm biased, because I had such an intense dislike of ME3 that I only managed one playthrough and didn't stick around long enough to watch the DLC ending.

[AresKeith]

Sorry, but "being what it is" does not confer any merit. Also, you never know if it was supposed to be that way unless you can read the creators' minds, and even that doesn't give you any rationale to prevent people from making their own version.

 

We kinda do in this instance 

[o Ventus]

Also, you never know if it was supposed to be that way unless you can read the creators' minds, and even that doesn't give you any rationale to prevent people from making their own version.

You actually can. The writer (or filmmaker, or songwriter, or whatever) are the ones publishing the work. They're the ones who have the final say in what goes into the work. When it's published, it's finished (unless the creator goes back and adds to the original piece, in which case it's finished when they stop putting in additional effort).

 

The bolded part is one of the most inane and nonsensical statements I've heard in a long time. Well done.

[Sylvius the Mad]

There is no reasoned justification behind any objection to a mod of this sort.

[Ieldra]

You actually can. The writer (or filmmaker, or songwriter, or whatever) are the ones publishing the work. They're the ones who have the final say in what goes into the work. When it's published, it's finished (unless the creator goes back and adds to the original piece, in which case it's finished when they stop putting in additional effort).

You obviously have no idea of the pressures involved in the making of films, games and books. For instance, Mark Darrah said they had to "cut a ton of content". I'm sure DAI was originally supposed to be a bit different from what we got, and that there are some things the developers aren't at all happy about.

[AresKeith]

There is no reasoned justification behind any objection to a mod of this sort.

 

Other than people having an opinion 

[Ieldra]

We kinda do in this instance 

Maybe, but still the writers don't complain about the mods. Some do, you know? For instance, it is known that George R R Martin doesn't approve of fan fiction, and last I've heard most people tend to respect that. Bioware could make a similar statement and *then* the objectors would have a point. They haven't, and that's it.

[o Ventus]

You obviously have no idea of the pressures involved in the making of films, games and books. For instance, Mark Darrah said they had to "cut a ton of content". I'm sure DAI was originally supposed to be a bit different from what we got, and that there are some things the developers aren't at all happy about.

No, I do.

 

Content being cut has no bearing on anything, because as soon as the content is cut, it's irrelevant and out of the picture. Whatever was cut may have been intended at one point, but that changed as soon as it was cut.

 

The cut conversations between Mordin and Grunt in ME2 aren't canon, because they never happened despite being recorded and on the disk.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Other than people having an opinion

If that opinion lacks reasoned justification, I'm comfortable ignoring it.

I'm often surprised that people aren't embarrassed to share opinions of that sort.

[Fiery Phoenix]

You actually can. The writer (or filmmaker, or songwriter, or whatever) are the ones publishing the work. They're the ones who have the final say in what goes into the work. When it's published, it's finished (unless the creator goes back and adds to the original piece, in which case it's finished when they stop putting in additional effort).

Wrong.

 

This game wasn't published by David Gaider or Mark Darrah. It was published by BioWare's owner aka EA, whose suits have the final say over every single aspect of the project.

 

Comparing game development with the publishing of a book or even a movie is fundamentally short-sighted. Two very different industries with very different agendas.

[durengo]

its a fictional character. You seriously have issues

behind a ficitional character are always real people.

you may say "i dont care or who cares" thats upt to you ... but its a fact.

 

as example ... chewbacca is also a ficitional star wars character ...

his part in the movies was written from humans ...a human actor play the part...there are many human fans of chewbacca

and fan communitys.chewbacca was devised by a real man and his fantasy.many comic and book writer use  the character.

 

to use a mod into a star wars game to change chewbaccas gender or sexuality may not hurt the fictional character ....what about the people?

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

In DA2 Isabela was clearly Bi

Why do people always say this? Isabela wasn't "clearly bi" unless she's romanced with a female Hawke, otherwise she just flirts with the male companions & speaks exclusively of her past sexual exploits with men, she literally never mentions having any attraction towards women if Bethany is dead or not used in the same party either.

It feels sometimes like people only say she's "obviously bisexual" simply because she sleeps around

[AresKeith]

Maybe, but still the writers don't complain about the mods. Some do, you know? For instance, it is known that George R R Martin doesn't approve of fan fiction, and last I've heard most people tend to respect that. Bioware could make a similar statement and *then* the objectors would have a point. They haven't, and that's it.

 

What point is there make? people are voicing their opinion on how they feel about these types of mods and the blatant hypocrisy this fanbase has around them. We already know it won't stop people from using them

 

Bioware is most likely not gonna get involved which a valid thing for them to do, however I do know a dev ranted about something similar when the White Vivienne/Dorian/Josephine pics started showing. He deleted the rant shortly after

[Broganisity]

What ever happened to the days of 'Not liking a mod, so not talking about it?'

I mean dayum, I don't think it makes sense but I'm not begrudging people their modding interests.

[BioWareMod03]

Hey everyone. Let's keep it civil in here.

[o Ventus]

This game wasn't published by David Gaider or Mark Darrah. It was published by BioWare's owner aka EA, whose suits have the final say over every single aspect of the project.

 

They actually don't. Publishers don't hover over the developers like vultures and tell them to change things they dislike. That simply isn't how most publishing contracts work. At most, a publishing deal would require a specific component to be present in the game (i.e. a game must have multiplayer, or microtransactions, etc) and that the game score a minimum aggregate review score.

 

 

Comparing game development with the publishing of a book or even a movie is fundamentally short-sighted. Two very different industries with very different agendas.

 

They're both a part of the entertainment industry with aspirations of making profit. Their agendas are nearly identical.

[AresKeith]

If that opinion lacks reasoned justification, I'm comfortable ignoring it.

I'm often surprised that people aren't embarrassed to share opinions of that sort.

 

People need a reason to voice how they feel about a mod now? 

[phaonica]

What's the difference between suggesting changes to the narrative and suggesting changes to the crafting system, the combat system, etc? Both are suggesting changes to an artists' vision.

[Fiery Phoenix]

They actually don't. Publishers don't hover over the developers like vultures and tell them to change things they dislike. That simply isn't how most publishing contracts work. At most, a publishing deal would require a specific component to be present in the game (i.e. a game must have multiplayer, or microtransactions, etc) and that the game score a minimum aggregate review score.

That is the 'official' rule, which is (unfortunately) rarely followed these days. Publishers now have a say over aspects directly affecting the intended vision of a game, and in many cases, they will turn down a project unless the developer conforms to their demands.

 

A very recent example off the top of my head would be Life is Strange, whose developer admitted that initial publishers they approached demanded that the game's protagonist's gender be changed, when the whole game was conceptualized around the story of a high school girl.

 

I have no doubt that BioWare is no stranger to such things by this point. Although I believe their overall vision of DA:I is retained in the final game, it's pretty clear to me that it's not quite as complete as it could have been.