1452 réponses à ce sujet

[HowlingSiren]

In cases like these, for me at least, intent is key. Did the modder make this mod to campaign that all characters should be gay, that straight should be eradicated from gaming and society at a large? My take on it, as far as I can tell, is NOPE. This mod is nothing more than a fantasy. Just like fan fic or fan art. And just like what all of us do in our lives. 

 

Who of us has not experienced similar fantasies ? Who here hasn't fantasized about an unattainable person? Be it because they were straight, or gay, or just plain not interested? We've all, I've no doubt, imagined scenarios and dreamed up situations involving someone else that didn't reflect reality, just what we wish were true. So what if we chose to write those fantasies down, or draw them, compose a song or make a mod about them - mod or painting or song or text, what's the difference? Is that really a form of rape or a violation of that person's integrity? Is it then only OK if we keep those thoughts in our head? I fail to see how the expression of fantasies like these are so wrong and incomprehensible, as long as they stay in the realm of fantasy. Which an optional mod about a fictional character does, by the way. 

 

And on the point of "messing with someone else's characters". Should we also ban all fan fic and fan art - particularly if it doesn't fit with the canon? Should authors and painters now be afraid to cite other works as their inspiration as they have been doing for centuries? Where exactly should censorship stop?

[Mirrman70]

this whole argument is almost the same as the fanfiction argument. Ultimately, whether or not someone is allowed to make a mod for a game, depends upon the action or inaction of the copyright holder and not other third parties.

[Melca36]

What's the difference between suggesting changes to the narrative and suggesting changes to the crafting system, the combat system, etc? Both are suggesting changes to an artists' vision.

 

 

 

Writing is different from....crafting/combat

 

Because it is different.  You are telling the writer to change something they envision just to suit your needs.  

 

Thats called being entitled

[phaonica]

Writing is different from....crafting/combat
 
Because it is different.  You are telling the writer to change something they envision just to suit your needs.  
 
Thats called being entitled

How is it different? They are both envisioned to create a specific type of experience. When someone provides feedback about a combat system, they are asking that something be changed to suit their needs, too.

[Boogielicious]

I'm thinking of making a mod that gives every single person in the game a scat fetish.  Blood splatter becomes poop splatter.  Poop in the stables will be interactable.  I'll add tons of poop everywhere, the rivers will run with poop.

 

Don't like it?  I don't give a crap.

 

I'll do whatever I like in my game, end of story.

[Melca36]

How is it different? They are both envisioned to create a specific type of experience. When someone provides feedback about a combat system, they are asking that something be changed to suit their needs, too.

 

Its more technical though.

 

By demanding the writer change the characters they write...it reeks of selfish entitlement.  I love Dorian for who he is. I love the characters for who they are and how they were written.

 

This all about people not being able to get who they wanted to romance and they don't care if the lore /characters get changed. They don't care about anything else.

 

Look, I said it before...How people mod their game is their business but people will demand their modded personal headcanons be implemented in the KEEP.  I saw this happen when the Keep was announced and people were mad and could not understand why their modded games could not be part of the Keep.  It will happen again.

[HowlingSiren]

 

By demanding the writer change the characters they write...it reeks of selfish entitlement.  I love Dorian for who he is. I love the characters for who they are and how they were written.

 

 

I'm curious, are you upset that Kaidan was gay in ME3 and that Cullen was in DAI? Because that is a result of people asking. Nothing wrong with asking. The writers are entitled to say yes or no. They can decide what goes or does not go in the game they are selling. 

 

Mods don't change the shipped game. They don't change the writers' canon.Just the copy the player has for his own personal use. To me, there is a difference. 

[phaonica]

Its more technical though.
 
By demanding the writer change the characters they write...it reeks of selfish entitlement. 

I love Dorian for who he is. I love the characters for who they are and how they were written.

This all about people not being able to get who they wanted to romance and they don't care if the lore /characters get changed. They don't care about anything else.
 
Look, I said it before...How people mod their game is their business but people will demand their modded personal headcanons be implemented in the KEEP.  I saw this happen when the Keep was announced and people were mad and could not understand why their modded games could not be part of the Keep.  It will happen again.

What difference does being more "technical" make? It's still asking something to be changed because you don't like it. How is that being any less disrespectful to the people who designed those systems?

As for the Keep, do you think that the devs might consider having the Keep support modded changes in the future? If they did, what difference does it make? If they didn't, then you can ignore them just like the devs did.

[Melca36]

I'm curious, are you upset that Kaidan was gay in ME3 and that Cullen was in DAI? Because that is a result of people asking. Nothing wrong with asking. The writers are entitled to say yes or no. They can decide what goes or does not go in the game they are selling. 

 

Mods don't change the shipped game. They don't change the writers' canon.Just the copy the player has for his own personal use. To me, there is a difference. 

 

Actually Kaidan was meant to be Gay in ME1.  I had no problems with it. I do think they did a bad job of presenting it by recycling most of the femSHEP scenes with it.   

 

I preferred Cortez.   He felt more real to me and he's my canon with my male shep.   

 

I also think its sad how the fandom treated Cortez and bashed the fans who preferred Cortez over Kaidan.

 

What I don't see with Inquisition is not asking. I see people demanding and assuming they know better than the writers.

[Melca36]

What difference does being more "technical" make? It's still asking something to be changed because you don't like it. How is that being any less disrespectful to the people who designed those systems?

As for the Keep, do you think that the devs might consider having the Keep support modded changes in the future? If they did, what difference does it make? If they didn't, then you can ignore them just like the devs did.

 

 

They will NEVER support mods like Its already been stated back when people were complaining about it. They can't fit everyones canons in the game. Its called resource limitations.

 

I don't expect my canons to be part of the game.

 

People should accept the fact that personal canons will NEVER be part of the game.

[phaonica]

In cases like these, for me at least, intent is key. Did the modder make this mod to campaign that all characters should be gay, that straight should be eradicated from gaming and society at a large? My take on it, as far as I can tell, is NOPE. This mod is nothing more than a fantasy. Just like fan fic or fan art. And just like what all of us do in our lives.

In general, is it disrespectful to fantasize about another person? And is it possible to fantasize about another person without actually wanting to change them in reality to fit your fantasy?

[Melca36]

I'm curious, are you upset that Kaidan was gay in ME3 and that Cullen was in DAI? Because that is a result of people asking. Nothing wrong with asking. The writers are entitled to say yes or no. They can decide what goes or does not go in the game they are selling. 

 

Mods don't change the shipped game. They don't change the writers' canon.Just the copy the player has for his own personal use. To me, there is a difference. 

 

 

Forgot to mention. As I have stated MANY TIMES before I do not care how people mod their game. My issue is with those people who insist they think they are better than the writers and demand their personal canons become part of the lore.

 

Everyone has a right to their own personal canon but what people do not have the right to do is insist the writers change their vision.

[phaonica]

They will NEVER support mods like Its already been stated back when people were complaining about it. They can't fit everyones canons in the game. Its called resource limitations.
 
I don't expect my canons to be part of the game.
 
People should accept the fact that personal canons will NEVER be part of the game.

Exactly, so why even worry about that at all? Yeah, people might bring it up and argue about it, but if nothing will ever come of it then this mod has exactly no more power than any other mod to influence that decision. Furthermore, people don't need mods to insist that their headcanons be incorporated into the lore.

And I'd still like to know how suggesting that combat or crafting being changed is any less disrespectful to the people who designed those systems?

[HowlingSiren]

In general, is it disrespectful to fantasize about another person? And is it possible to fantasize about another person without actually wanting to change them in reality to fit your fantasy?

To me, it's not disrespectful to fantasize about other people. If so, I owe Michael Fassbender profuse apologies.  Frankly I don't even know how we could go about stopping ourselves from fantasizing, be it about real or fictional characters, people we know and don't know. Wishing for something to be different is not necessarily a bad thing. I think we just need to be able to tell the difference between fantasies and reality. And in this particular case, fictional characters and real people.  

[phaonica]

To me, it's not disrespectful to fantasize about other people. If so, I owe Michael Fassbender profuse apologies.

LOL!

Frankly I don't even know how we could go about stopping ourselves from fantasizing, be it about real or fictional characters, people we know and don't know. Wishing for something to be different is not necessarily a bad thing. I think we just need to be able to tell the difference between fantasies and reality. And in this particular case, fictional characters and real people.

I think so, too, but I'm open to that other people might have a different perspective from myself that I'd be happy to listen to. I think it is possible to create or use a mod that changes a characters sexuality, without thinking that sexuality is wrong, or that it should go away for everyone, or even that the specific character shouldn't be that sexuality. It could be because they want to engage in a pretend fantasy that is only in their head about that character in which they have a different sexuality and still entirely respect that character's/person's autonomy.

[daveliam]

I'm curious, are you upset that Kaidan was gay in ME3 and that Cullen was in DAI?

Actually Kaidan was bisexual in ME3, not gay.  And Cullen was straight in DA: I.  Not terribly relevant to the overall point of the thread, but just wanted to point this out. 

[HowlingSiren]

Actually Kaidan was bisexual in ME3, not gay.  And Cullen was straight in DA: I.  Not terribly relevant to the overall point of the thread, but just wanted to point this out. 

Apologies, you are of course correct. I was not clear in what I was trying to say.  

[HowlingSiren]

I think so, too, but I'm open to that other people might have a different perspective from myself that I'd be happy to listen to. I think it is possible to create or use a mod that changes a characters sexuality, without thinking that sexuality is wrong, or that it should go away for everyone, or even that the specific character shouldn't be that sexuality. It could be because they want to engage in a pretend fantasy that is only in their head about that character in which they have a different sexuality and still entirely respect that character's/person's autonomy.

I share your perspective. On both being open to debate and with your views. 

[SkyKing]

It is true and I understand people complaining. I loved it because I was almost learning to mod to make it myself, tried to change my saves to romance her but failed miserably. So I loved the mod. But it is kind of wrong...

 

Don't worry though, Dorian you can eff up, and not click any flirts since every dialogue option with dorian has a flirt and if you accidentally click it once, even after missing it the first 10 times, it's an instant sex scene with him before you can hit escape.  

[jeromefiefdom]

I'm thinking of making a mod that gives every single person in the game a scat fetish.  Blood splatter becomes poop splatter.  Poop in the stables will be interactable.  I'll add tons of poop everywhere, the rivers will run with poop.

 

Don't like it?  I don't give a crap.

 

I'll do whatever I like in my game, end of story.

 

I love puns

[General TSAR]

And on the point of "messing with someone else's characters". Should we also ban all fan fic and fan art - particularly if it doesn't fit with the canon?

Hit the nail on the head.

 

Anything outside of official cannon is fan-fiction meaning you have the freedom to go wild with your imagination unless told otherwise by the creators or distributors.

[Fast Jimmy]

And its arrogant to demand the writers change their vision.  There are things I'd love to have the game. But I don't have the bravado to assume I am right and they wrong. 

 

When all is said and done....its still their vision.  If you want to mod your game...go for it. Just don't demand the writers to add your perosnal canon to the lore.

 

When the writers neither have to acknowledge or even be aware that the change exists, then it is not a problem.

 

Yes, if people later complain that the Keep doesn't take their mods into consideration, that's when the line is drawn and you say "no, your fan-fic mods do not count as actual in-universe reality." But that's where the line should be begin, not with trying to police or shame people for mods they may make. That's internet bullying and its despicable.

[kalasaurus]

Exactly, so why even worry about that at all? Yeah, people might bring it up and argue about it, but if nothing will ever come of it then this mod has exactly no more power than any other mod to influence that decision. Furthermore, people don't need mods to insist that their headcanons be incorporated into the lore.

And I'd still like to know how suggesting that combat or crafting being changed is any less disrespectful to the people who designed those systems?

Hit the nail on the head.

 

Anything outside of official cannon is fan-fiction meaning you have the freedom to go wild with your imagination unless told otherwise by the creators or distributors.

When the writers neither have to acknowledge or even be aware that the change exists, then it is not a problem.

 

Yes, if people later complain that the Keep doesn't take their mods into consideration, that's when the line is drawn and you say "no, your fan-fic mods do not count as actual in-universe reality." But that's where the line should be begin, not with trying to police or shame people for mods they may make. That's internet bullying and its despicable.

This, this and this.

 

I see people worry that this will cause people to DEMAND that this mod be turned into canon.  Nevermind the fact that I have yet to see it happen for this mod, but if it does, so what?  Bioware is under no obligation to do so just like they won't turn any other mod, fanfiction or fanart into canon.