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[TheJediSaint]

Or this one

Spoiler

To be fair, Femsheps looking for love in ME2 had Garrus as an alternative.

 

F!Bhalspawns were stuck with Anomen.

[BabyPuncher]

Wait.. my bad. Just realized that straights are kind of overrepresented, at least for females. Cullen, Solas, and Blackwall?

 

I was only thinking on my end, with Cass.

 

By percentage of real world players? Not even remotely close.

 

A study by the CDC conducted in 2013 found 97.7% of US adults identified as straight, with a .7% standard error. You'll find the exact figures on the 7th page of the report. I understand that all surveys have outside factors to consider and that the percentage of BioWare players is likely to be higher than the percentage of adults in general (and that itself sits poorly with a proper understanding of cause and effect), but a tenfold or twentyfold increase seems abhorrently unlikely. 

[Laurelinde]

Think of it as Bioware's apology for this guy.

 

Oh Maker. ><  We could have had Haer'Dalis but nooooooooo!  This guy!  Who keeps sneering that you don't know what you're doing even after he's supposed to have confessed his love for you.  *disgusted noise*  I should have turned Boo and my lil' pseudodragon loose on him. (Real talk: I never took my familiar out except to give it cuddles, because no way was my precious baby getting hurt.  That was Anomen's job.)

[WildOrchid]

Lol "representation".

 

 

 

 

Modding someone's sexuality is nowhere near "representation".

What is representation however, is shows/movies/games actually having canon bi/gay characters. Dorian and Sera are representation. So is Leliana, Josephine and the rest of bi characters.

 

 

"Bi" Cullen or "bi" Cassandra is not.

Tumblr, I SWEAR. First you have LGBT people saying there about how shipping two straight ladies is not representation.... then you have people say that modding some straight characters is representation?

 

 

I'd rather have canon LGBT characters, thanks. We rarely get enough of them as it is.

[BabyPuncher]

So...you're saying they overrepresent straight females? Because they certainly don't do that, seeing as 66% of the female love interests are gay or bisexual. Compared to...2.3% in real life, according to the report.

[daveliam]

By percentage of real world players? Not even remotely close.

 

A study by the CDC conducted in 2013 found 97.7% of US adults identified as straight, with a .7% standard error. You'll find the exact figures on the 7th page of the report. I understand that all surveys have outside factors to consider and that the percentage of BioWare players is likely to be higher than the percentage of adults in general (and that itself sits poorly with a proper understanding of cause and effect), but a tenfold or twentyfold increase seems abhorrently unlikely. 

 

I'm not convinced by studies like these.  They are asking people to self-identify as a stigmatized and oppressed group?  And you think that people are going to be honest about this?  Just not seeing it.  What I do find compelling is the fact that people who identify as gay and lesbian are three times higher in the 18-44 category when compared to the 65 and over category.  So are we supposed to think that more people are gay now?  Or are we actually seeing that, when LGBT people are accepted, more people feel comfortable being out?  I think it's the latter.  And that evidence makes me question how valid those findings are all around.  How many people are gay, lesbian, or bisexual, but not comfortable admitting it?

[Hazegurl]

I guess that depends on how you view 

 

Imo, in Cullen's case is that they considered making bi but chose not to. Solas on the other hand I honestly have no idea lol

I think they ran out of time with Cullen. They had dialogue recorded for Cullen, the Male IQ, and even Dorian rejecting the Male IQ if he didn't break it off with Cullen.  I have no idea what happened with Solas either.

[TheJediSaint]

Honestly, demographics and representation aren't really a good reasons to include characters of a particular sexuality or gender.

 

Rather, LGBT people should be included in games because they exist in real life.

 

How many of them should appear in a game should be left up to the creators.

[daveliam]

I think they ran out of time with Cullen. They had dialogue recorded for Cullen, the Male IQ, and even Dorian rejecting the Male IQ if he didn't break it off with Cullen.  I have no idea what happened with Solas either.

 

Some people think that they were referring to Cullen back at GaymerX when they discussed plans to make a character bisexual, but decided that it ended up not working with the story they were planning.  Gaider also made a comment like, "That content isn't getting included for the same reasons it wasn't included the first time."  So I think that they just decided that it wasn't going to work for Cullen.  And, even though he is fiiiiiiiine, I'm okay with that. 

[BabyPuncher]

I'm not convinced by studies like these.  They are asking people to self-identify as a stigmatized and oppressed group?  And you think that people are going to be honest about this?  Just not seeing it.  What I do find compelling is the fact that people who identify as gay and lesbian are three times higher in the 18-44 category when compared to the 65 and over category.  So are we supposed to think that more people are gay now?  Or are we actually seeing that, when LGBT people are accepted, more people feel comfortable being out?  I think it's the latter.  And that evidence makes me question how valid those findings are all around.  How many people are gay, lesbian, or bisexual, but not comfortable admitting it? 

 

You're speaking as if this survey demands gay people wear a neon badge and a pink shirt while announcing their orientation to every friend, family member, and colleague before they're allowed to answer as gay. That's not how it works. It's a clinical question in a safe environment and I'm certain the data is kept private. Nobody else knows about it, and the interviewee becomes a data point. So yes, I do expect people to answer honestly. I certainly don't expect dishonestly to the degree of a ten or twentyfold increase/

 

Secondly, the percentage of younger people identifying as non-straight (although still tiny at less than 3%) is probably due to societal factors, but whether that's due to a underrepresentation in older folks or an overrepresentation iis younger ones s difficult to say. Personally, I think it's more likely to arise from an overrepresentation.

[BabyPuncher]

Honestly, demographics and representation aren't really a good reasons to include characters of a particular sexuality or gender.

 

Rather, LGBT people should be included in games because they exist in real life.

 

How many of them should appear in a game should be left up to the creators.

 

Perhaps. But the point is, I don't think there's any basis at all for claiming straight characters are 'overrepresented' compared to real people.
 

[daveliam]

You're speaking as if this survey demands gay people wear a neon badge and a pink shirt while announcing their orientation to every friend, family member, and colleague before they're allowed to answer as gay. That's not how it works. It's a clinical question in a safe environment and I'm certain the data is kept private. So yes, I do expect people to answer honestly. I certainly don't expect dishonestly to the degree of a ten or twentyfold increase/

 

Secondly, the percentage of younger people identifying as non-straight (although still tiny at less than 3%) is probably due to societal factors, but whether that causes an underrepresentation or an overrepresentation is difficult to say. Personally, I think it's more like to cause an overrepresentation.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the percentage actually is, but I'm certain that people are not honest about it if they are in the closet.  I can tell you firsthand that if I were asked if I were gay by a researcher back when I was in the closet, there is NO WAY IN HELL that I would have outed myself.  Hell no.  So, yes, I don't think that people who are in the closet or aren't open about their sexuality are going to self-identify in these surveys.  Trust me on this one. 

 

And, yes, I also think it's telling that as it becomes accepted in society that more and more people are identifying as LGBT.  Makes me think that maybe there have always been way more gay people than people think, but they aren't comfortable telling people. 

[TheJediSaint]

35 pages and I just don’t seem to get it. I just played her mod and I am wondering if any of you felt the earth move when I got to the poetry?

Unlike Game Makers, mod makers don’t need to please the masses. It just seems logical to me that mod makers will make mods that please themselves. That seem reasonable to me. That they post them is a bonus for anyone that likes or wants the mod makers work, and there seems to be many downloads for most mods, rather anyone not downloading thinks they are good mods or not. Why has it become sacrosanct that mods follow canon when by the very nature of a mod, a modification to the game, they are not? Or has this turned into a morality debate and if so perhaps we have lost track on what is going on in this game.

To start, the irony of using a mod to change a companion's sexuality, when a major in-game plot point for another companion is that their father tried to change their sexuality.

[BabyPuncher]

And, yes, I also think it's telling that as it becomes accepted in society that more and more people are identifying as LGBT.  Makes me think that maybe there have always been way more gay people than people think, but they aren't comfortable telling people. 

 

Well, that's true of anything and everything, isn't it? The more something is accepted, the more people identify with it, regardless of how good, bad, real or fake it is. Doesn't really mean a whole lot aside from the basic fact that humans like to be accepted by their peers.

 

I might be willing to accept at a very, very, very long stretch that two or three times as many 'closeted' gay people exist than outed gay people, but that still only adds up to 10% or so. 
 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the percentage actually is, but I'm certain that people are not honest about it if they are in the closet.  I can tell you firsthand that if I were asked if I were gay by a researcher back when I was in the closet, there is NO WAY IN HELL that I would have outed myself.  Hell no.  So, yes, I don't think that people who are in the closet or aren't open about their sexuality are going to self-identify in these surveys.  Trust me on this one. 
 
And, yes, I also think it's telling that as it becomes accepted in society that more and more people are identifying as LGBT.  Makes me think that maybe there have always been way more gay people than people think, but they aren't comfortable telling people.

Probably were alot of closeted individuals who stayed hidden considering the extreme abuse LGBT people could suffer just 20-30 years ago, i certainly wouldn't have come out as openly bisexual back then either

[TheJediSaint]

Probably were alot of closeted individuals who stayed hidden considering the extreme abuse LGBT people could suffer just 20-30 years ago, i certainly wouldn't have come out as openly bisexual back then either

I think it's mostly that not all parts of the US are as tolerant as others.

[daveliam]

Is it possible that some in the closet don't even know what they are to begin with?

 

I don't know if that's offensive. Just asking. I keep getting images of staunch conservatives who live in denial and attack the very people like themselves... I wonder what they're thinking in private.

 

This is way off topic though.

 

Agreed that it's off topic.  PM me if you want to chat about it, though.  I've got some thoughts on it.  Shocking, I know.....

 

Well, that's true of anything and everything, isn't it? The more something is accepted, the more people identify with it, regardless of how good, bad, real or fake it is. Doesn't really mean a whole lot aside from the basic fact that humans like to be accepted by their peers.

 

I might be willing to accept at a very, very, very long stretch that two or three times as many 'closeted' gay people exist than outed gay people, but that still only adds up to 10% or so. 
 

 

Yeah, that's where I would put it as well.  My gut has always been around 10% (+/- a few % points).  Of course that's not exactly a scientific estimate.

 

Probably were alot of closeted individuals who stayed hidden considering the extreme abuse LGBT people could suffer just 20-30 years ago, i certainly wouldn't have come out as openly bisexual back then either

 

Wait, is that a read?  How long ago do you think I was in the closet.....?    (I was in high school 20+ years ago, so you are actually right....)