1452 réponses à ce sujet

[TheJediSaint]

Hmm. You sure about that?
 

Yep.

[tmp7704]

Ah crap...this again. In the words of Stephen Fry...
 
“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f*cking what."

Ah crap... this again.

(look back three pages)

[Rykoth]

Regardless of ANYONE'S opinion on the mod.

 

ANYONE. ANYONE. ANYONE who runs a community member off and compares her to a rapist for her choice to mod a VIDEO GAME is scum, and they themselves deserve karma to bite them in the ass. 100 percent. Anyone who defends such bullies needs to look in the mirror and ask themselves if they're okay with being intolerant bigots.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Regardless of ANYONE'S opinion on the mod.

 

ANYONE. ANYONE. ANYONE who runs a community member off and compares her to a rapist for her choice to mod a VIDEO GAME is scum, and they themselves deserve karma to bite them in the ass. 100 percent. Anyone who defends such bullies needs to look in the mirror and ask themselves if they're okay with being intolerant bigots.

 

Calling her a rapist? Yeah.

 

Fundamentally opposing what she's doing? Not at all intolerant. At least, unless you think opposing the 'white isabela' mod is intolerant.

 

What she did is change something fundamental about a character because she didn't like it. Should we allow that? Absolutely! 

 

Do we have to approve of it? Not at all.

[Ieldra]

You can openly disagree with a mod being made without harassment or abuse. There's nothing wrong in politely standing up for what you believe in and saying you think someone was morally wrong to create a mod.

Morally wrong? *scoffs* You'll have to do a little more actual harm before I'd find that justified. If you're looking for morally wrong, look no further than heaping an avalanche of hatred on *real* people for what they do in their *fictional* worlds to non-existing, fictional people.

 

The most you can say about those character mods we're debating is that they're tasteless.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Morally wrong? *scoffs* You'll have to do a little more actual harm before I'd find that justified. If you're looking for morally wrong, look no further than heaping an avalanche of hatred on *real* people for what they do in their *fictional* worlds to non-existing, fictional people.

 

The most you can say about those character mods we're debating is that they're tasteless.

 

I think making a black character white because you dislike the look of black people is racism.

 

I think racism is immoral.

 

I don't really care if you think it's morally wrong or not. It's just my opinion that it is.

 

Mods aren't exempt from morals. Morals are present and shown in every single thing we do.

[The Hierophant]

Meh. Don't like the mod, but the reaction is ridiculous. Though considering that a scientist received death threats and was forced to apologise for wearing a shirt with latex wearing women, this reaction shouldn't surprise me.

[Ieldra]

I think making a black character white because you dislike the look of black people is racism.

 

I think racism is immoral.

 

I don't really care if you think it's morally wrong or not. It's just my opinion that it is.

 

Mods aren't exempt from morals. Morals are present and shown in every single thing we do.

Racism is if you think one ethnicity is intrinsically better than another in some way. Disliking how someone looks is nothing more than an aesthetic preference, and making a mod that changes a fictional character is nothing more than catering to that preference in a specific way. Aesthetic preferences should indeed be mostly exempt from morality. 

 

Morality only comes into the picture when what we do affects others. If it doesn't do any harm, there exists no ground for censure. Of course those who try hard to be offended tend to claim actual harm even if it's nothing more than being confronted with opinions you don't like.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Racism is if you think one ethnicity is intrinsically better than another in some way. Disliking how someone looks is nothing more than an aesthetic preference, and making a mod that changes a fictional character is nothing more than catering to that preference in a specific way. Aesthetic preferences should indeed be mostly exempt from morality. 

 

Morality only comes into the picture when what we do affects others. If it doesn't do any harm, there exists no ground for censure. Of course those who try hard to be offended tend to claim actual harm even if it's nothing more than being confronted with opinions you don't like.

 

"Racism is if you think one ethnicity is intrinsically better than another in some way".

 

Exactly - such as thinking white people are intrinsically better looking than black people.

[Ieldra]

"Racism is if you think one ethnicity is intrinsically better than another in some way".

 

Exactly - such as thinking white people are intrinsically better looking than black people.

Sure you can phrase this in a racist way, but simply disliking one characters' appearance does not imply such a global opinion, in much the same way as modding a gay character to be bi doesn't make you a homophobe. Saying "a black skin makes someone unattractive to me" is certainly an odd claim to make, but It isn't political and has no moral dimension unless you make it so. That "white Isabela" mod wasn't problematic in itself, it only became so because the modder made a statement about it that sounded politlcal. A simple preference alone is never racist. Racism is an attitude.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Sure you can phrase this in a racist way, but simply disliking one characters' appearance does not imply such a global opinion, in much the same way as modding a gay character to be bi doesn't make you a homophobe. Saying "a black skin makes someone unattractive to me" is certainly an odd claim to make, but It isn't political and has no moral dimension unless you make it so. That "white Isabela" mod wasn't problematic in itself, it only became so because the modder made a statement about it that sounded politlcal. A simple preference alone is never racist. Racism is an attitude.

The "white Isabela" mod would have been less dodgy IMO if the guy who made it hadn't tried to make the point of it "fixing her & making her look like she should", make whitewashing mods if you want but don't call it "improved" or "fixed" since that'll obviously cause trouble with people would have likely just ignored it otherwise

[Maiafay]

What on earth is wrong with you people, its a game, not yours or theirs or mine... The fans here scare me in sad little way.

Hey, I was speaking for THEM, not ME, lol. I have no issues whoever mods Sera - or Dorian for that matter. It's not my canon; it's not canon in game; and it's not canon on the wiki. What right do I have to censor someone's private game?

[Maiafay]

Both mods are forms of erasure.

See, I don't think people are doing it for that reason. It's more about personal fantasy. The entire game is. Modders aren't doing it to erase anyone, or any sexualty. They simply want to romance, or prefer a certain look to a character. There's a damn uproar on tumblr just over the mustache mod on Dorian.

But that's THEIR GAME. Not YOURS. No one knows what goes on in another's head. Many probably aren't thinking: Oooh, lets erase Dorian's identity because I'm homophobic - it's more like: "Let me finally romance this sexy beast as the gender I want."

It's inherently selfish yes, but everyone's game is that to an extent.

[luism]

Why is this thread not locked ?

[Poledo]

Man... this is like watching somebody flog a dead horse.

 

This thing should have been killed on page 1.

[AxholeRose]

The "white Isabela" mod would have been less dodgy IMO if the guy who made it hadn't tried to make the point of it "fixing her & making her look like she should", make whitewashing mods if you want but don't call it "improved" or "fixed" since that'll obviously cause trouble with people would have likely just ignored it otherwise

 

Agreed..  retexture mods are fairly common and if he named it Isabela skin retex or something and let the images do the speaking then I would have zero issues with that.  It's just a retexture.  You could make her green and call it Alien Isabela mod.  But yeah don't call it an improvement or something, that's definitely offensive as well as subjective.

[Maiafay]

No, because this is the first I've been able to express my opinion on the matter and not have inbox hate mail calling me homophobic - when I wriite slash. Talk about irony.

[Lewie]

Man... this is like watching somebody flog a dead horse.

[phaonica]

"Racism is if you think one ethnicity is intrinsically better than another in some way".

 

Exactly - such as thinking white people are intrinsically better looking than black people.

 

This seems a little dodgy, to me.

 

If I were to say I personally find men more attractive than women in general, would that make me a misogynist?

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

See, I don't think people are doing it for that reason. It's more about personal fantasy. The entire game is. Modders aren't doing it to erase anyone, or any sexualty. They simply want to romance, or prefer a certain look to a character. There's a damn uproar on tumblr just over the mustache mod on Dorian. But that's THEIR GAME. Not YOURS. No one knows what goes on in another's head. Many probably aren't thinking: Ohh, lets erase Dorian's identity because I'm homophobic - it's more like "Let me finally romance this sexy beast as the gender I want."

It's inherently selfish yes, but everyones game is that to an extent.

The hate towards the clean shaven Dorian mod is justified, one just does not get rid of the stache

[Grieving Natashina]

See, I don't think people are doing it for that reason. It's more about personal fantasy. The entire game is. Modders aren't doing it to erase anyone, or any sexualty. They simply want to romance, or prefer a certain look to a character. There's a damn uproar on tumblr just over the mustache mod on Dorian. But that's THEIR GAME. Not YOURS. No one knows what goes on in another's head. Many probably aren't thinking: Ohh, lets erase Dorian's identity because I'm homophobic - it's more like "Let me finally romance this sexy beast as the gender I want."

It's inherently selfish yes, but everyones game is that to an extent.

I'm out of likes, but I completely agree.  I know folks are reading far more intention than are there.   Besides, for those that are so opposed to this mod, continuing to protest against it is counterproductive.   This is is one those rare times where if folks just ignored the mod, it wouldn't have the attention it does.  The more folks talk about it, protest and harass the modders, the more folks will get curious and try the mod out.  

 

What kills me is that some out there are acting like this changes Cassandra on BioWare's end.  Shoot, I know that overall there are more console players than PC players of BioWare games (according to sales numbers,) so this content isn't even available for the majority of the fanbase.  It can't even impact most of the fans.

 

I've experienced bi-erasure before.  It sucks, and it's an awful feeling to get from a game that you love (DA2, not getting into it atm.)  This mod isn't straight erasure, or at least not intended to be.  BioWare isn't going to remove Cassandra as an example of a straight woman because a fan changed a 0 to a 1 in an optional mod that many players can't even use.  

 

 

The hate towards the clean shaven Dorian mod is justified, one just does not get rid of the stache 

....Hate the mod, not the modder.  

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

This seems a little dodgy, to me.

 

If I were to say I personally find men more attractive than women in general, would that make me a misogynist?

 

No. I personally find white people more 'attractive' than black people.

 

I'm also a gay male. But I can still appreciate female beauty and do not wish to remove it.

 

Ditto for race.

[AresKeith]

....Hate the mod, not the modder.

That's what I'm doing

[Bizantura]

Everyone seems to be a "professor" in moral behavior.  The likeminded ones group together and think they have the right to gang up on someone whom thinks differently.  Preferably a lone worlf one = much more fun and relatively safe to tear up.  Sad times where ending up with.....