1452 réponses à ce sujet

[Killdren88]

Wait, I thought Cassandra was already a female romance. I mean she can't possibly be a male romance with that jawline.

I remember being shocked in Game of Thrones with Brianne turning out to be Straight *hands up * Kidding!

[giveamanafish...]

Well, you missed quite a bit of the argument then.

 

Also, you made sure to ignore and remove from your quote the part where I am against any kind of mod-censorship, no matter if the mod is intended to cater to straight people or LGBT. Quite typical I must say.

 

What I said all along is very simple: Don't be a hypocrite. Live and let live. You fight for equality and freedoms for LGBT?

Don't try to doing it by taking away freedoms from other people. That's not just hypocritical, you are shooting yourself in the leg.

 

And if that's not clear enough for you, here: I fully support the mod that made Cassandra Bi, and will support the right of any kind of mod that adds more options and ways to play to the core game.

Well, I quoted the bit where you said "almost any mod is ligitimate", if that's what you mean. What do you mean? I was questioning why you came up with this: "It's "okay" to make Cassandra and Cullen bisexual because that's somehow pro-LGBT,

but not okay to make Sera available to male PC because that's an offense towards Lesbians.". I still don't know.

[Sporothrix]

Well, I quoted the bit where you said "almost any mod is ligitimate", if that's what you mean. What do you mean? I was questioning why you came up with this: "It's "okay" to make Cassandra and Cullen bisexual because that's somehow pro-LGBT,

but not okay to make Sera available to male PC because that's an offense towards Lesbians.". I still don't know.

 

You know that situation of straight and gay people is different?

 

Gay people are repressed minority (obviously depending where you live, but remember that people that play this game are from around the whole world; where I live, gay people don't have the same rights and hate crimes are common - I fell victim of it as well), straight people are majority that make the rules for us. Homophobia is a real thing, heterophobia is not (when was the last time you've heard of straight person beaten to death by gays for being straight? or straight woman "corrective" raped by lesbian to "convert" her to lesbianism?).

 

Cultural context is what makes the idea of changing gay character straight (or bi) offensive, while it's no longer true when you simply reverse it. For comparison, think about whiteface and blackface and why it wouldn't be the same.

[Super Drone]

You know that situation of straight and gay people is different?

 

Gay people are repressed minority (obviously depending where you live, but remember that people that play this game are from around the whole world; where I live, gay people don't have the same rights and hate crimes are common - I fell victim of it as well), straight people are majority that make the rules for us. Homophobia is a real thing, heterophobia is not (when was the last time you've heard of straight person beaten to death by gays for being straight? or straight woman "corrective" raped by lesbian to "convert" her to lesbianism?).

 

Cultural context is what makes the idea of changing gay character straight (or bi) offensive, while it's no longer true when you simply reverse it. For comparison, think about whiteface and blackface and why it wouldn't be the same.

 

Double standards are a fantastic way of making sure the group that is allowed the Double Standard is never treated the same as the majority group. 

[Sporothrix]

Double standards are a fantastic way of making sure the group that is allowed the Double Standard is never treated the same as the majority group. 

 

Because straight people are so opressed by gay people and there were and still are attempts to "fix" them like in case of gay people (main reason why "degaying" mods are so problematic). Unless you're corrective rape survivor like myself, please don't talk to me about "double standards", because that term can only refer to something that despite being similar, leads to different treatment. I think I profoundly explained already why situation of gay and straight people isn't similar.

[Sporothrix]

 

Blackface/whiteface are the same racist caricatures. It's just ok to use one over the other because one group of people can get away with being victims while the other can't.

 

How does whiteface make anyone a victim on the first place? Blackface is offensive due to its cultural background, racist history attached to it. You apparently try to reject the meaning of context and push "symmetrism" everywhere, but it's simply impossible.

 

More on the subject:

 

http://www.thegloss....iteface-photos/

[BackdoorPaco]

How does whiteface make anyone a victim on the first place? Blackface is offensive due to its cultural background, racist history attached to it. You apparently try to reject the meaning of context and push "symmetrism" everywhere, but it's simply impossible.

 

More on the subject:

 

http://www.thegloss....iteface-photos/

So something can only be racist if it has history to it?

k.

Spoiler

Connor Smallnut, the face of White People Party Music.
Totally not racist. kek.

[Sporothrix]

So something can only be racist if it has history to it?

k.

Spoiler

Connor Smallnut, the face of White People Party Music.
Totally not racist. kek.

You refer now not to the whiteface, but to something he wrote.

[ThreeF]

How does whiteface make anyone a victim on the first place?

It can be offensive in either case and in the sense that you are changing someone appearance because it does not suits you. It ventures into creepy side of the whole control freak spectrum.

[dongsaeng]

Oh FFS...

Why hasn't this been locked yet?

My thoughts exactly.

I ran out of popcorn a long time ago...

You still got some?

[X Equestris]

You know that situation of straight and gay people is different?
 
Gay people are repressed minority (obviously depending where you live, but remember that people that play this game are from around the whole world; where I live, gay people don't have the same rights and hate crimes are common - I fell victim of it as well), straight people are majority that make the rules for us. Homophobia is a real thing, heterophobia is not (when was the last time you've heard of straight person beaten to death by gays for being straight? or straight woman "corrective" raped by lesbian to "convert" her to lesbianism?).
 
Cultural context is what makes the idea of changing gay character straight (or bi) offensive, while it's no longer true when you simply reverse it. For comparison, think about whiteface and blackface and why it wouldn't be the same.

Heterophobia is most definitely a thing. I've seen a fellow claim that straight people don't exist, and that anyone who identifies as such should be killed. No one is denying that it's much, much rarer, but you can't pretend it doesn't exist.

[DWareFan]

Honestly, I'm glad I purchased it for Playstation.  I like the writing and the story the way it is.  Would I like to have a brother/sister thing with Dorian, who wouldn't.  Do I mind that someone modded a function of the game...no.  Our preferences are ours.  If Bioware did not want modding to be done, they could have locked it.  There are ways. 

 

Now, my problem is that all of the cool, I'm interested in your life lines are behind the heart.  That is my problem.  Why is I'd like to know more about you behind a heart?  As it is, I've flirted with everyone but Blackwell and the Iron Bull, including Cassandra and Dorian and I play female dalish mage.

[JosieRevisited]

Cultural context is what makes the idea of changing gay character straight (or bi) offensive, while it's no longer true when you simply reverse it. For comparison, think about whiteface and blackface and why it wouldn't be the same.

 

I disagree that the mod actually changes anything, though. Sera is still who she was written to be, regardless of any modifications that are made to the core game. A mod just allows someone to experience her story for the entertainment that it is. There's nothing wrong with someone fantasizing that an interaction might go a certain way. I'm not certain that I agree modding a game is the equivalent of corrective violence. That would make fanfiction and deviantart more or less the same thing, and I actually have a dog in that particular fight. Fantasies don't necessarily make us dangerous as people. There's a lot of psychoanalysis behind what does, but that's well out of the scope of this discussion. 

 

So that leads me to question why some are so against this, on both sides. Is it a revenge thing? Insecurity? Something else? "I don't want you to even be able to *think* about this because it threatens my security" sounds like a seriously scary way to live, especially about game content. Thought police are never a good idea. 

 

I'm pretty secure in the knowledge that Sera isn't bi. She isn't straight. She's a sapphist, and her writer has even clarified her dialogue to the point of absurdity to make sure we know exactly where her preferences lie. No mod is going to change that, just like no mod is going to change Cassandra. I don't find my own sapphism threatened just because a man I don't even know might find Sera interesting and want to explore the full range of her dialogue options with a modification to his game. It's not going to suddenly make me question whether I should be shipping her with a dude in my imagination or not. However, the flip side of the coin is that I'm not going to stop fantasizing that Cassandra and Leliana might be able to build a thing in the absence of a male inquisitor who romanced her. Or reading that amazing story I found that someone wrote about her with a female Trevalyn and somehow all the other heroes from games past in attendance (and even Sera with Merrill, what brilliance. really great, that one). 

 

That's the best thing about imagination. Anything is possible. We all need to remember that imagination is what brings us these rich experiences. Stifling it, in any way, isn't progress. 

[Poledo]

Oh FFS...

 

Why hasn't this been locked yet?

 

 

 

This should have been nixed before it made it passed page 1.

[Draining Dragon]

Double standards all the way across the sky...

[Mihura]

At this point my position is, mods shouldn't be allowed to anyone. 

Also about the double standards, I do not think that is it. It is the same to say that a rich person should be helped with food money because the poor one has that great privilege. Things like this IRL are not black and white, there are social levels of privilege to everything.

What you can say is that maybe changing some character sexuality in your game is irrelevant to real life and that I can agree, I mostly only care about the official stance from bioware and not mods at all. Although I understand why changing Dorian to bi is not the same when it comes to Cassandra, when you compare that to real life. 

[Urzon]

Although I understand why changing Dorian to bi is not the same when it comes to Cassandra, when you compare that to real life.

You don't really even need real life examples since Dorian's personal story touches on this.

 

I think that would be the only mod I would personally find extremely creepy since it touches so much so on his backstory with his father. With that mod, that would mean Dorian's father DID succeed with "curing" him with blood magic, and any relationship he might have with a woman was only because someone ripped into his mind and remolded it as they saw fit.

[SwobyJ]

You don't really even need real life examples since Dorian's personal story touches on this.

 

I think that would be the only mod I would personally find extremely creepy since it touches so much so on his backstory with his father. With that mod, that would mean Dorian's father DID succeed with "curing" him with blood magic, and any relationship he might have with a woman was only because someone ripped into his mind and remolded it as they saw fit.

 

I'm not ripping into anyone's mind until I see convincing, actual, AI at play.

[AresKeith]

To say there isn't a double standard is automatically enforcing the double standard

[Mihura]

You don't really even need real life examples since Dorian's personal story touches on this.

 

I think that would be the only mod I would personally find extremely creepy since it touches so much so on his backstory with his father. With that mod, that would mean Dorian's father DID succeed with "curing" him with blood magic, and any relationship he might have with a woman was only because someone ripped into his mind and remolded it as they saw fit.

 

True but his story kinda touches real life issues, that was my point. Cassandra on the other hand does not. 

Either way I still do not care personally if you mod him or Sera in your game, in the end I care about the official game only but I do understand why that would be view as creepy or horrible. 

[QueenCrow]

You don't really even need real life examples since Dorian's personal story touches on this.

 

I think that would be the only mod I would personally find extremely creepy since it touches so much so on his backstory with his father. With that mod, that would mean Dorian's father DID succeed with "curing" him with blood magic, and any relationship he might have with a woman was only because someone ripped into his mind and remolded it as they saw fit.

 

You've just helped me to understand a little of what the fuss is all about.  It's easier for me to imagine now, being homosexual and living a life in which people inclined toward traditional gender and sexuality roles - whether parents, peers, or preachers - try to change or fix something they perceive as in need of change or fixing.  You - general homosexual you-  live with this your whole life, then people start doing it to the homosexual characters to which you identify in your favorite game.  In that position, it might be a hot-button issue for me too.

 

With that said, I wanted to experience the Dorian romantic story line.  I love him, bought the game, and didn't want to miss out on a piece of a character I adore.  Instead of a mod, I just made a male character specifically for the romance.  I, the real person behind the avatar, felt odd and dysfunctional (personal experience with is has no bearing on anyone else's experiences), so I quit that character.  Romantic Dorian will unfortunately have to be experienced through pervy, voyeuristic watching of other people's youtube vids.

 

Creepy, but what's a Dorian fan to do?

[QueenCrow]

Adds:

 

What were the reasons people gave for being upset about a Cassandra female romance mod?