1452 réponses à ce sujet

[turuzzusapatuttu]

 

 

Best Jerry Springer Punch

You can't see in the gif but she punched that chick's earring off. lol!

 

 

We all know we like Jerry Springer's world better.

 

[Hazegurl]

I don't understand. The authors can explore all kinds of character concepts, but it is not okay for players to explore new/different character concepts?

Maybe it's just me but when I read fan fiction I expect the characters to look and sound just like they do in the original work.  If they are too OOC then I wonder why the fan fic author even bothered when they could have just written their own original work. With that said, I don't consider authors and consumers/players to be on the same level in defining a character's concept. 

[phaonica]

Maybe it's just me but when I read fan fiction I expect the characters to look and sound just like they do in the original work.  If they are too OOC then I wonder why the fan fic author even bothered when they could have just written their own original work. With that said, I don't consider authors and consumers/players to be on the same level in defining a character's concept. 

 

From what I understand, you are saying that players/fans rarely have the ability stay true to character. To me, it doesn't seem morally wrong for them to make the attempt, though. It doesn't even seem morally wrong for them to create something that doesn't even attempt to be true to character.

 

Also, in the specific example before, you said that when a player imagined Sera with darker skin it wasn't okay, but when the author imagined the same thing, it was okay. Does that mean that in this case your issue wasn't the change of her skin color, but rather that a player was doing the changing?

[Hazegurl]

From what I understand, you are saying that players/fans rarely have the ability stay true to character. To me, it doesn't seem morally wrong for them to make the attempt, though. It doesn't even seem morally wrong for them to create something that doesn't even attempt to be true to character.

 

Also, in the specific example before, you said that when a player imagined Sera with darker skin it wasn't okay, but when the author imagined the same thing, it was okay. Does that mean that in this case your issue wasn't the change of her skin color, but rather that a player was doing the changing?

I wasn't really speaking about morals there. If we were to explore the morals behind changing skin color et al to make them a different race. I would only say that it has a nasty history behind it so I understand it if people don't like it and I don't like it myself.  We all got different morals and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

It's not about having an issue with the player vs the author. If I'm reading a series and the main protagonist was black in the first two books then suddenly Chinese in the third book. And it's supposed to be the same character from the first two books. I'm going to question what type of drugs the author was doing while writing the third book.  The character's look was already established, it no longer just a concept, this is who they are, unless they got badly burned, or decide to dye their hair in the story et al I would expect the author to keep the character as is.

 

Let me add, that as much as I love Dorian's concept art. I can't imagine final Dorian walking around looking like that or even having some most likely smelly monkey clinging to any part of his body. He seems well established as a more clean cut type of guy. I can even see why it remained nothing more than a concept.

[phaonica]

I wasn't really speaking about morals there. If we were to explore the morals behind changing skin color et al to make them a different race. I would only say that it has a nasty history behind it so I understand it if people don't like it and I don't like it myself.  We all got different morals and there's nothing wrong with that.

But you also previously said that the skin change mod was fine if it was based on one of the authors' concept art rather than the player's own ideas. The author's abandoned concept idea is no more representative of the finalized, canon character than anything the player might have made up. So why is modding the characters skin color to match a non-canon piece of art a morally acceptable reason to do so?
 

[Lewie]

One thing that really bugs me about this whole thing, is that people are judging people through a game. 

 

You can mod people to be black, white, green, pink, blue... who cares.

 

Stop using a game to sort out your life issues for gods sake.

[cindercatz]

I wasn't really speaking about morals there. If we were to explore the morals behind changing skin color et al to make them a different race. I would only say that it has a nasty history behind it so I understand it if people don't like it and I don't like it myself.  We all got different morals and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

It's not about having an issue with the player vs the author. If I'm reading a series and the main protagonist was black in the first two books then suddenly Chinese in the third book. And it's supposed to be the same character from the first two books. I'm going to question what type of drugs the author was doing while writing the third book.  The character's look was already established, it no longer just a concept, this is who they are, unless they got badly burned, or decide to dye their hair in the story et al I would expect the author to keep the character as is.

 

Let me add, that as much as I love Dorian's concept art. I can't imagine final Dorian walking around looking like that or even having some most likely smelly monkey clinging to any part of his body. He seems well established as a more clean cut type of guy. I can even see why it remained nothing more than a concept.

This is kind of interesting to me, because I have the same issue if an author does something like that in a series. Or a dev changes a character mid-series like that (happens all the time, unfortunately), because the author typically does it to make some sort of social statement, but fundamentally to the detriment of the original character (and the character's existing fans, people that identify with them as is). Along the same lines, I support DA's characters having set sexual identities, because you can't really have characters and their stories like Cass or Dorian if you don't. It makes for stronger characters and stories.

 

But a mod? A mod is equivalent to a personal fantasy, fan art or headcanon to me. It hurts nobody and doesn't effect the original character at all. It may very well be nothing more than personal preference. It has no bearing on anyone unless they choose it themselves. So going after a modder is like being the thought police. Not cool. Creatively stifling. People should just let it be. And anybody harassing the modder, what's wrong with you people? (not aimed at you obviously, Hazegurl  )

 

I can't believe this is 58 pages.

[Hazegurl]

But you also previously said that the skin change mod was fine if it was based on one of the authors' concept art rather than the player's own ideas. The author's abandoned concept idea is no more representative of the finalized, canon character than anything the player might have made up. So why is modding the characters skin color to match a non-canon piece of art a morally acceptable reason to do so?
 

 We all know that most of these race changing mods follow nonwhite characters like a smelly fart. Let's us not pretend we don't know the reasons behind that. So when speaking about morals, there is a heck of a lot that come into play than just author vs player comparisons and concept artwork.

 

 If the Modder slapped a different coat of paint on Sera's skin and claimed it's concept art Sera and then tell everyone how beautiful she is now just because of a little skin change, then yeah that's just terrible too. That's not concept art Sera, that's just slapping paint on a character, that's not capturing the style of the piece. Sadly, there isn't much a modder can do in DAI to change the hair..at least I don't believe there are hair mods now.  But I don't think there is anything wrong in exploring the author's discarded ideas, they shared them with the public.  Race changing mods are just iffy all around but I am willing to understand the intent.   However, I'm no mind reader, I can't gauge everyone's intent with their mod, I can only draw the line for myself.

 

In short, if a modder wants to give Dorian blond hair, blue eyes, and pale skin,  proclaim him as "the more beautiful Dorian" then throw it in their game and have him motor boating their female PC's pixel ******. They are free to do so, just as long as they don't post pics of it in the Dorian forum then act all butthurt when/if someone (most likely me ) expresses a negative opinion of their "work" nor care for their concept of the character.

 

 

 

This is kind of interesting to me, because I have the same issue if an author does something like that in a series. Or a dev changes a character mid-series like that (happens all the time, unfortunately), because the author typically does it to make some sort of social statement, but fundamentally to the detriment of the original character (and the character's existing fans, people that identify with them as is). Along the same lines, I support DA's characters having set sexual identities, because you can't really have characters and their stories like Cass or Dorian if you don't. It makes for stronger characters and stories.

 

But a mod? A mod is equivalent to a personal fantasy, fan art or headcanon to me. It hurts nobody and doesn't effect the original character at all. It may very well be nothing more than personal preference. It has no bearing on anyone unless they choose it themselves. So going after a modder is like being the thought police. Not cool. Creatively stifling. People should just let it be. And anybody harassing the modder, what's wrong with you people? (not aimed at you obviously, Hazegurl  )

 

I can't believe this is 58 pages.

 

I agree, I once read a book where the author called a character by a different name for like half the freaking book before changing it again.  lol!!  But sometimes I notice that when an author reveals a piece of info on a character that some people don't like, it's  written off as "a statement" instead of just how the character developed naturally.  This is happening right now for a show I like. A character was revealed to be homosexual and now almost everyone is raging about how that is done to please the SJWs. Even though the character never expressed an interest in women. Sorry just had to rant about that. lol!

 

I actually prefer the way DA2 did the sexualities but I have to admit that I have changed my opinion since then. They did a good job with the LIs and the race and sexuality gating and I agree that they come out stronger as a result. I actually didn't have a problem with the Cass bi mod until someone mentioned that Cass tells the femIQ to stop flirting with her and to be her friend.  I don't know how true it is as I don't flirt with Cass as a female, but if true then I view it the same as the Dorian bi mod.  Creepy 

 

As for modding, I agree, it's a personal fantasy and people can do as they like. However, thinking someone is an ass over a mod doesn't change anything, nor does it take anything away from the modder.  If a person is so insecure to the point where they can't handle anything other than praise for their mod then they probably shouldn't share it.  I'll say the same of anyone, if you write a story, paint a pic, make a movie, invent something and expect only praise and can't handle anything else then don't bother sharing it. Cause you might not like the experience.

 

PS. I think everyone here is in agreement that harassing a person is not cool...but then again I just started posting in this thread again and it's at almost 60 pages and I haven't read it since it was around page 20 I believe. So maybe that changed somewhere.

 

Oy Vey, had no idea my post was that long. Okay I think I have said all I can possibly say on this topic...and I even think I repeated myself from like a zillion pages back.  Geez.

[Hazegurl]

My parting gift before I do my part in letting this thread RIP

 

[Seraphael]

Uh, no. Doing something wrong does not mean you deserve to be harassed. Two wrongs don't make a right, and all that. 

 

What you call politically correct, I call not being an ass.

You conveniently left out my emphasis on INCREDIBLY wrong, to make your disingenuous "case". Two wrongs doesn't make a right, but an "incredibly wrong" act, certainly warrants a reaction. Yet I don't see anything wrong other than the reaction, which to me is a prime example of a PC witch-hunt gone wrong. You also conveniently neglected to answer my question as to why you "STRONGLY think it's INCREDIBLY wrong to mod a sexual characteristic". Strongly supporting the belief something frivolous as the mod in question is not only wrong, but INCREDIBLY wrong, is an incitement to a reaction you don't want to take the consequences of since, in your mind, you hold the moral high ground and correct attitudes. Just like every other self-delusional PC person is convinced he or she does.

[Abyss108]

You conveniently left out my emphasis on INCREDIBLY wrong, to make your disingenuous "case". Two wrongs doesn't make a right, but an "incredibly wrong" act, certainly warrants a reaction. Yet I don't see anything wrong other than the reaction, which to me is a prime example of a PC witch-hunt gone wrong. You also conveniently neglected to answer my question as to why you "STRONGLY think it's INCREDIBLY wrong to mod a sexual characteristic". Strongly supporting the belief something frivolous as the mod in question is not only wrong, but INCREDIBLY wrong, is an incitement to a reaction you don't want to take the consequences of since, in your mind, you hold the moral high ground and correct attitudes. Just like every other self-delusional PC person is convinced he or she does.

 

I left it out because there were numerous pages of other people saying why it was wrong without wanting to incite a witch hunt. Didn't see much point in reproducing what other people have already said.

 

Anyway, I'm just not a fan of changing characterization to meet your own preferences. Just goes against the point of the game for me. If you want an entire party that will will agree with everything you say and meet your every approval, play something like Icewind Dale. The point of a game like Dragon Age is to interact with other characters who have their own mind and are their own people. I'd have the same opinion if someone modded Solas to hate Spirits, or Sera to love Elves. They are not the same character anymore.

 

Once again, me disagreeing with the author doesn't mean I think she deserves a witch hunt. Why would I? What purpose would that be for? That's just proving the people doing the witch hunting are asses. If you think it's wrong, leave a bad review explaining why you think that and move on. 

[Unpleasant Implications]

I'd have the same opinion if someone modded Solas to hate Spirits, or Sera to love Elves. They are not the same character anymore.
 

I think you are inflating the importance of someone's sexuality to their character. But that's just me. I mean, it CAN be if you decide to mold your life around it, weird, but I don't think that's the best analogy you could've come up with.

[Abyss108]

I think you are inflating the importance of someone's sexuality to their character. But that's just me. I mean, it CAN be if you decide to mold your life around it, weird, but I don't think that's the best analogy you could've come up with.

 

I never said it was the single important aspect. I don't think Solas is defined by loving spirits or Sera by hating elves. Its an aspect of who they are, but they don't base their lives around it.

[Unpleasant Implications]

I never said it was the single important aspect. I don't think Solas is defined by loving spirits or Sera by hating elves. Its an aspect of who they are, but they don't base their lives around it.

You don't? Sera seems to devote quite a lot of time to not being and hating all things "elfy". Solas' love and understanding about spirits and the Fade, I'd argue, are pretty defining pieces of their character. They wouldn't be them without those traits.

Changing their sexuality would change little to nothing.

[Abyss108]

You don't? Sera seems to devote quite a lot of time to not being and hating all things "elfy". Solas' love and understanding about spirits and the Fade, I'd argue, are pretty defining pieces of their character. They wouldn't be them without those traits.

Changing their sexuality would change little to nothing.

 

I'd disagree with defining someone so narrowly. People are a collection of many different aspects, and I think both characters are a lot more complicated then that.

[Unpleasant Implications]

I'd disagree with defining someone so narrowly. People are a collection of many different aspects, and I think both characters are a lot more complicated then that.

Well, yes, they do have other characteristics, but those are instrumental parts of their characters that would vastly change them if they were removed/changed.

In contrast, their sexuality is so minor to their character, it changes little to nothing.

[Vanth]

Miranda, was an overly objectified character. Her sole design-pourpose in the game was to be a sex-object, blatantly obvious when she was dressed in the 'cat suit' when she was supposed to be hiding from cerberus   The ass shots were also eyeroll-worthy...and the accent was really insulting.

 

That is incredibly misogynistic. Miranda was a strong character who could take care of herself. Women have a right to dress however they like without suffering your disapproval and being declared a 'sex-object'. And what do you mean about the accent? The actress spoke in the same accent she always uses. 

[AWTEW]

That is incredibly misogynistic. Miranda was a strong character who could take care of herself. Women have a right to dress however they like without suffering your disapproval and being declared a 'sex-object'. And what do you mean about the accent? The actress spoke in the same accent she always uses.

Uhhm, yeah misogynistic, right whatever.If you can't see the obvious sexulisation of that character, then thats your thing. Miranda has good points, but they were overshadowed by the sexulisation that was done, oh so obviously for marketing pourposes.

Do they really have the right?Thats a cultural context issue..which I'm not getting into.


Oh right, my bad, I forget that anyone who has a different opinion to sjw mainstream is by default wrong. Here let me go and get my stick, and hit myself with it 'I'm such a terrible person because I see the obvious marketing..durr.'

[Dieb]

An anti-Miranda discussion? Are you guys afraid of nothing?

 

Miranda deliberately dresses sexy because she can because everything about her "is supposed to give her an advantage". That and her awareness/deliberate attitude in this matter are part of her character. Sure it sells things if it has gorgeous hotties in it, and I enjoy them for the fact, but Miranda also has the brains & the relevance to not make it any "cheaper" than she herself intends it to be. (Also Jacob isn't exactly reluctant to show off he hits the gym more diligently than I do. I'm a straight male and I can't stop looking at his butt, not gonna lie.)

 

P.S.: I didn't romance Miranda, and my Shepard didn't even particularly like her as a person. That doesn't mean she's in bad character land.

[Zerc]

BSN and tumblr feminists have two things in common, complete detachment from reality.

[Abyss108]

Well, yes, they do have other characteristics, but those are instrumental parts of their characters that would vastly change them if they were removed/changed.

In contrast, their sexuality is so minor to their character, it changes little to nothing.

 

I disagree.

 

That is incredibly misogynistic. Miranda was a strong character who could take care of herself. Women have a right to dress however they like without suffering your disapproval and being declared a 'sex-object'. And what do you mean about the accent? The actress spoke in the same accent she always uses. 

 

Yes, a women has the right to dress however she wants, but Miranda isn't a woman. She's a character that was written and animated for a specific purpose. She didn't "choose" to dress like that, because she doesn't exist. 

 

Its possible to create a female character that dresses "sexy" without it being sexualization. I'd argue Morrigan is a good example of that. Miranda isn't. If she was, the camera wouldn't jump straight to her ass every time my straight female Shepard talks to her. That's not a women saying "I like to dress this way", that's the game creators screaming "look at that ass! Don't you like that ass! Isn't the ass great?!".

[mopotter]

Don't really have any problem with what people do with mods.  If I like it I'll download it, if I don't I won't.   It's the only reason I have for playing a game on the pc.   

 

There are a lot of mods I don't get, why give Zev brown hair, why make Wynne younger, why skip part of the game just because you don't like it. 

 

I'm pretty sure my favorite ME3 mod is on someones list of mods that aren't needed, but I LOVE it.  MEHEM    And if I had DAO on the pc I'd be getting the mod that "replace the creepy vanilla candle scene with both pre- and post-ritual scenes between him and the Warden"   because I hated the DR having to see Alistair and Morrigan

 

Wouldn't use this one, but I really don't care if someone else does.

[Killdren88]

Okay, so I downloaded the Mod. Now tell me.

 

What exactly did I do to you as a result of downloading the mod. Explain how my action infringed upon your game experience and overall mood. Explain how I offended you by this action, you never saw me commit, and will never see the results of it either. Explain how I offended you.