61 réponses à ce sujet

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Having lurked around here for some time, there is one question I'd liked answered:


What is the deal with the mages being brainwashed? I've heard some are and some aren't so could someone explain what is going on?

[Ranadiel Marius]

The Grey Warden mages are mind controlled when they perform a demon binding ritual. That is the extent of shown in the game.

 

However some mage supporters believe that if you side with the Templars, the mages under Fiona's command are brainwashed like the Grey Warden mages. There are three sources they cite to to support the theory. The first is a comment in the guide by Prima about Fiona being brainwashed when you fight her.....however the guide is both non-canon and filled with a ridiculous number of errors, so it isn't exactly a good source. The second is a note in the Hissing Wastes that no one seems to be able to find (except one of the mage supporters and that one won't provide the text or location of the note). The third is a mission report from Lel investigating Redcliffe after siding with the Templars where her agents mention the Venatori were performing some ritual with zero indication of what the ritual was.

 

So basically it is just a theory with no in game support. Not that there is anything to contradict it in game either.

[aerisblight]

blame the Reapers...

 

oh wait...

 

wrong game.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

The Grey Warden mages are mind controlled when they perform a demon binding ritual. That is the extent of shown in the game.
 
However some mage supporters believe that if you side with the Templars, the mages under Fiona's command are brainwashed like the Grey Warden mages. There are three sources they cite to to support the theory. The first is a comment in the guide by Prima about Fiona being brainwashed when you fight her.....however the guide is both non-canon and filled with a ridiculous number of errors, so it isn't exactly a good source. The second is a note in the Hissing Wastes that no one seems to be able to find (except one of the mage supporters and that one won't provide the text or location of the note). The third is a mission report from Lel investigating Redcliffe after siding with the Templars where her agents mention the Venatori were performing some ritual with zero indication of what the ritual was.
 
So basically it is just a theory with no in game support. Not that there is anything to contradict it in game either.

And what proof is there for the people who say the mages aren't brainwashed? And why aren't the Templars ever thought to be willingly serving Corypheus? Why is it only the mages?

[thesuperdarkone2]

And what proof is there for the people who say the mages aren't brainwashed? And why aren't the Templars ever thought to be willingly serving Corypheus? Why is it only the mages?

Simply put, the templar supporters don't have any proof that the mages aren't brainwashed. There is more evidence to support the mages being brainwashed to the mages not being brainwashed. As for the templars, the reason is that pro-templars need another reason to hate on the mages. As far as they are concerned, mages willingly serve Corypheus while templars have to be brainwashed to serve Corypheus. Templar supporters are really just looking for any idiotic excuse to hate mages.

[Nimlowyn]

This is kind of a contentious question on the forums right now. There is no direct in game evidence to my knowledge, but I think one can assume they were at least forced to serve or killed. 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I doubt most mages were brainwashed, alot likely jumped at the chance to put southern Thedas back under Tevinter control where mages are dominant & rule over normal people

[Steelcan]

Simply put, the templar supporters don't have any proof that the mages aren't brainwashed. There is more evidence to support the mages being brainwashed to the mages not being brainwashed. As for the templars, the reason is that pro-templars need another reason to hate on the mages. As far as they are concerned, mages willingly serve Corypheus while templars have to be brainwashed to serve Corypheus. Templar supporters are really just looking for any idiotic excuse to hate mages.

the onus of proof is on the believer, you have utterly failed to provide any substantive proof, like this mythical codex entry

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

the onus of proof is on the believer, you have utterly failed to provide any substantive proof, like this mythical codex entry

Why is the guide so ignore? I hear it outright confirms the mages are brainwashed multiple times? Why ignore it as that would seem to be an end to this discussion.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Why is the guide so ignore? I hear it outright confirms the mages are brainwashed multiple times? Why ignore it as that would seem to be an end to this discussion.

Because it completely dispels that nonsensical notion that the mages aren't brainwashed if you side with the templars. I've given evidence but apparently every bit of it doesn't count for templar supporters. If you outright refuse to accept any piece of information given, you just make yourself look like you are putting your fingers in your ears to drown out anything that could disprove their notion. Somehow I bet if the guide said that mages weren't brainwashed and willingly served the Venatori if you sided with the Templars, the people supporting this notion would totally use it and claim it as proof but since the guide says otherwise, it isn't canon.

[Steelcan]

Why is the guide so ignore? I hear it outright confirms the mages are brainwashed multiple times? Why ignore it as that would seem to be an end to this discussion.

because the guide isn't an in universe source, nor is it explicitly stated to be word of God, plus its also just flat out wrong on some stuff, like the Inquisition being restricted to 11 influence

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Why is the guide so ignore? I hear it outright confirms the mages are brainwashed multiple times? Why ignore it as that would seem to be an end to this discussion.

Im pretty sure Fiona is the only person to get called brainwashed since she wasn't 100% on board with the alliance with Tevinter

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

because the guide isn't an in universe source, nor is it explicitly stated to be word of God, plus its also just flat out wrong on some stuff, like the Inquisition being restricted to 11 influence

If the devs do confirm the mages are brainwashed, would that make what he guide says true?

[Steelcan]

If the devs do confirm the mages are brainwashed, would that make what he guide says true?

if we got a statement from Gaider that explicitly, and with no room for additional interpretation, said that the mages were brainwashed into supporting Corpyheus then it'd be a moot point regardless

 

In the absence of that, I will not believe they were all brainwashed

[Herr Uhl]

If the devs do confirm the mages are brainwashed, would that make what he guide says true?

Yes?

[Ashagar]

Simply put, the templar supporters don't have any proof that the mages aren't brainwashed. There is more evidence to support the mages being brainwashed to the mages not being brainwashed. As for the templars, the reason is that pro-templars need another reason to hate on the mages. As far as they are concerned, mages willingly serve Corypheus while templars have to be brainwashed to serve Corypheus. Templar supporters are really just looking for any idiotic excuse to hate mages.

 

Because clearly anyone who don't support mages must be irrational idiots who hate mages. Really I can't understand such a mentality. There are good reasons to support the mages and good reasons to support the Templars neither of which requires hatred of the other side.

 

That being said I haven't found anything in-game that suggests to me that the mages were brainwashed.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Because clearly anyone who don't support mages must be irrational idiots who hate mages. Really I can't understand such a mentality. There are good reasons to support the mages and good reasons to support the Templars neither of which requires hatred of the other side.

 

That being said I haven't found anything in-game that suggests to me that the mages were brainwashed.

You don't see mage supporters making stuff up like "the templars willingly serve Corypheus". There is no reason to believe the mages aren't brainwashed unless you are making up stuff to make the mage side look worse. This is literally the only place where that idea has any support. Anywhere else, everyone believes both sides become brainwashed if you don't side with them. Also, I haven't found much to imply the templars are brainwashed yet you don't see me spreading that idea.

[AresKeith]

If the devs do confirm the mages are brainwashed, would that make what he guide says true?

 

That's pretty much what people are asking for, that or the codex entry Darkone keeps mentioning but won't post

[AresKeith]

You don't see mage supporters making stuff up like "the templars willingly serve Corypheus". There is no reason to believe the mages aren't brainwashed unless you are making up stuff to make the mage side look worse. This is literally the only place where that idea has any support. Anywhere else, everyone believes both sides become brainwashed if you don't side with them. Also, I haven't found much to imply the templars are brainwashed yet you don't see me spreading that idea.

 

Umm you and Xil specifically stated in another thread that the entire order became Red Templars, which was absolutely false

[ThreeF]

The mages were brainwashed at some point, but it happens after Fiona agreed to Alexius's deal and only in the alternative time line  or if you don't recruit them.

[Lumix19]

the onus of proof is on the believer, you have utterly failed to provide any substantive proof, like this mythical codex entry

This isn't a science experiment where the hypothesis can be assessed through controlled experiments. Considering that the Venatori serves the Elder One and most of the Mages we talk to in Redcliffe seem adverse to just the idea of working with the Imperium (with the exception of Linnea and Fiona though she does object later when Alexius' plans are revealed) I think we can safely conclude that the mages wouldn't willing join the Venatori, more likely to be coerced or brainwashed.

[Mirrman70]

You don't see mage supporters making stuff up like "the templars willingly serve Corypheus". There is no reason to believe the mages aren't brainwashed unless you are making up stuff to make the mage side look worse. This is literally the only place where that idea has any support. Anywhere else, everyone believes both sides become brainwashed if you don't side with them. Also, I haven't found much to imply the templars are brainwashed yet you don't see me spreading that idea.

 

The majority of the lower ranks of templars are force fed red lyrium which not only makes them crazy but also makes them able to be controlled by Corypheus via the blight in the red lyrium.

[thesuperdarkone2]

The mages were brainwashed at some point, but it happens after Fiona agreed to Alexius's deal and only in the alternative time line  or if you don't recruit them.

Exactly. Why is it so hard to believe?

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Exactly. Why is it so hard to believe?

Is obvious that not all mages were brainwashed, that female mage in the tavern is a good example of that with her extremely pro Tevinter & blood magic views

[Steelcan]

This isn't a science experiment where the hypothesis can be assessed through controlled experiments. Considering that the Venatori serves the Elder One and most of the Mages we talk to in Redcliffe seem adverse to just the idea of working with the Imperium (with the exception of Linnea and Fiona though she does object later when Alexius' plans are revealed) I think we can safely conclude that the mages wouldn't willing join the Venatori, more likely to be coerced or brainwashed.

Experiments aren't necessary, proof however, is