Guest_Chino_*
QFMFT. Also Chino, since you seem to enjoy sniping a lot: have you tried Sniper Elite III? It's pretty good
I played it a bit back in December, and then stopped. The campaign seemed a bit silly, and the multiplayer was empty. I remember spending 45 minutes trying to find a game! Never again.
@ Deerber
BW can quickscope, so it's much better at close range and sometimes you don't always need to kill an enemy outright, you just need it to dodge (like Phantoms) to buy you some time.
I played it a bit back in December, and then stopped. The campaign seemed a bit silly, and the multiplayer was empty. I remember spending 45 minutes trying to find a game! Never again.
Better to play with a buddy on campaign, you can friendly fire each other ;D Fun times.
Better to play with a buddy on campaign, you can friendly fire each other ;D Fun times.
Does it have slow-mo testicle explosion x-ray's when you shoot your buddy? If so, I will buy it right now 
Does it have slow-mo testicle explosion x-ray's when you shoot your buddy? If so, I will buy it right now
Aww not on your buddy but only on enemies 
But that would be awesome
At least you can nuke your buddy with grenades?
Those "numbers" are not rooted much in facts, because you avoided accounting for the Javelin's biggest strenght, that is, being able to shoot when the BW can't. So do this: take your dps numbers, and cut the BW's by 20%, to simulate the Javelin's ability to shoot more. Who's doing more damage now?
And yes, while that number is obviously a rough estimate, I actually do shoot through cover a good amount of times. Remember that, since we were talking about the kishock, I gave an approximation of all the times I shoot through *any* sort of cover, even just shooting at corners for better RHA, or shooting through enemies themselves. That accounts for a lot of shots, for me.
About that last comment, the answer is the same I gave to your numbers above: how are you going to kill things faster than I am, if you can't shoot them at all?And while the BW somewhat wallbangs too, it's limited to enemies whose position you can see - whether with your own eye, or with the scanner/HM/recon mine. And that is why the difference is also a lot kit and map dependant. On the DI, for example, that has recon mine and can spam it reasonably fast, the BW is without many doubts better. Same can be said if you play on a map like glacier, where the scanner is revealing pretty much any enemy you can shoot. But on something like... Say, Ghost? I, with a Javelin, can stay in one place (not that I'm going to, but still I could if I wanted to) and wallbang pretty much anything that appears anywhere on the map. Can you do the same with a BW? Nope. You're gonna have to go around to shoot, and you'll lose shot opportunities by doing so.
Besides, in all this discussion, we have not mentioned a slight, but important difference: the BW needs a headshot to get a OHK on shielded mooks (except on winfiltrators, and sometimes on them too), while the Javelin can kill anything by hitting their toe. And while with a good aim one can definitely make the BW faster at killing visible mooks than the Javelin is, you're gonna need an aimbot to get full leverage out of it and make the BW that 50% better at it that would come out of mere numbers.
Those "numbers" are not rooted much in facts, because you avoided accounting for the Javelin's biggest strenght, that is, being able to shoot when the BW can't. So do this: take your dps numbers, and cut the BW's by 20%, to simulate the Javelin's ability to shoot more. Who's doing more damage now?
). A miss on a Black Widow is easily remedied, but if you miss with the Javelin (and there will be misses)? The Javelin definitely takes more skill, to be sure.
So having been gone for a few years, I just came back to multiplayer... Is the Valiant no good now?
So having been gone for a few years, I just came back to multiplayer... Is the Valiant no good now?
Valiant is retired.
SMG + AR = Indra > Sniper Rifle ... seems to me this game gives a damn what is what.
So, i use claymore for sniping.
Sounds, looks, feels good and is heavy enough to beat ... well, it´s versatile.
Ah, yes.
My way to say: I give a damn.
( Goddess, guess i have Krogan ancestors )
Guest_Chino_*
So having been gone for a few years, I just came back to multiplayer... Is the Valiant no good now?
If I remember right, when the Valiant was a promo weapon it was lackluster. It's an excellent all-round sniper rifle now.
SMG + AR = Indra > Sniper Rifle ... seems to me this game gives a damn what is what.
So, i use claymore for sniping.
Sounds, looks, feels good and is heavy enough to beat ... well, it´s versatile.
Ah, yes.
My way to say: I give a damn.
( Goddess, guess i have Krogan ancestors )
Are there some "don't"s missing? Because otherwise huh?
Aedolon pretty much hit the point square on the nose; staying in one place - especially on higher difficulties (try plat) - is a great way to get yourself killed.
That wasn't my point. I don't stay in one place when I Javsnipe, and neither does Deerber. My point was that with Javelin there's no need to maneuver in such a way that you (almost) always have something shootworthy in direct line of sight. That doesn't mean one shouldn't stay mobile.
Also, I don't agree that BW is "much better" than Javelin in CQC. Javelin kills stuff with single bodyshot on all kits, not just on infiltrators like BW, and the 0.2 second delay is a complete non-issue. (You should probably also be aware that Deerber is pretty much always in CQC, even when he's sniping with Javelin.)
And no, BW doesn't kill more bosses than Javelin. While BW has very slightly higher sustained DPS, Javelin's damage is front-loaded so its TTK is likely to be smaller, which means that a Javelin sniper is already on his way to the next boss (or just aiming at it... wallhack, you know?) while BW sniper is still shooting.
It's true that in laboratory conditions BW kills mooks faster - assuming good skill and sensible build - but in-game? Not so much.
(You should probably also be aware that Deerber is pretty much always in CQC, even when he's sniping with Javelin.)
That wasn't my point. I don't stay in one place when I Javsnipe, and neither does Deerber. My point was that with Javelin there's no need to maneuver in such a way that you (almost) always have something shootworthy in direct line of sight. That doesn't mean one shouldn't stay mobile.
Also, I don't agree that BW is "much better" than Javelin in CQC. Javelin kills stuff with single bodyshot on all kits, not just on infiltrators
I was referring to you pointing out that kiting enemies leads to having something to shoot at often (which makes Deerber's point more irrelevant) and then I pointed out that staying in one place is bad.
And no, actually, the Javelin does not bodyshot everything...I'm quite certain that Phantoms, Dragoons, Pyros and Possessed Bugs (maybe more) take 1-3 bodyshots depending on difficulty and kit loadout
And no, actually, the Javelin does not bodyshot everything...I'm quite certain that Phantoms, Dragoons, Pyros and Possessed Bugs (maybe more) take 1-3 bodyshots depending on difficulty and kit loadout
I said it "kills stuff with single bodyshot", not that it kills everything with single bodyshot. "Stuff" typically includes all the ordinary mooks up to a Gold Hunter. Pyros die from a single shot when you hit the tank, which is very easy to do. Phantoms require a bit more than a single bodyshot, but they still go down quite well.
The Javelin is usually more efficient. The sustained DPS between the two is as near as makes no difference the same (and not of primary relevance anyway unless you think the CSR, Valiant and even the Incisor are better than both) but the Javelin is faster in a lot of circumstances because of the wallhack (you needn't run as far to reach a firing angle on the targets) and safer. Not only do you have the ability to aim accurately through soft cover, but even in situations where no soft cover is available to shoot through, exposure time is only 0.2 seconds on the Javelin compared to the 3 seconds it takes you to fire all 3 Black Widow rounds and maintain comparable DPS.
Black Widow is better at shooting multiple mooks in disparate locations in the open, though it requires a top level marksman to do it at max fire rate, and if the enemies are clustered a good Javelin marksman will perform nearly as well. This is also not taking into account that the Javelin would usually enable one to begin shooting earlier because of greater piercing distance and pinpoint accurate wallhax. You can use thermal scope on the BW to even this somewhat, but then you get less than 2m of piercing (so you can't shoot through much anyway) and a ton of weight (because then HVB is practically mandatory).
Anyone claiming that the Javelin lacks in CQC needs to git gud. Properly utilized, it enables you to do a ton of damage and get back into cover to reload quickly, which in practical terms is better on higher difficulties than standing in one place with the BW being pelted by multiple foes for a full 3 seconds, unless you're using a tanky kit. You can also use the same strategy with the BW, but that means you aren't doing nearly as much damage as the Javelin.
As mentioned, Javelin isn't nearly as dependant on phasics to get OHK's either. On plat, I can take my Incendiaries on my QFI (for Sabotage TV spec fire explosions) and still kill damn near any basic mook in a single headshot. BW will take two headshots and up to 3 bodyshots for shielded/ barrier mooks without them.
It all depends on utility and personal preference. I think the BW is the best overall sniper rifle on the game, especially on most infiltrators (not on the GI). There are lots of other great ones though, and many people do better with the Javelin. And the Valiant and Kishock might be better on a non-infiltrator where cooldowns matter.
Out of all weapon categories, the phrase 'personal preferance' can rightfully be best used to describe the SR category.
Valiant is an extemely user-friendly head popper due to fast RoF, fast reloading, and almost no movement of the scope after firing, allowing for a consistent FoV, which makes for amazingly easy followup shots. Debateable on how good it is for a non-infiltrator, though. It's as light as a mantis, and still technically does more DPS than a black widow. Cleans up mooks fast.
The black widow is still death incarnate, though. It shreads larger boss units because of its innate piercing + mod make easy double hits. It's a terror against cerberus when given phasic ammo, killing gold level phantoms in two rounds, any other mook in one headshot, and downs atlases within two clips easily. Heavy as hell, and kicks like a mule when fired. The scope position does reset shortly after firing, but in that time, the valiant is lining up the next shot while you're waiting to attempt to get your bearings on the next target with the black widow after scoring a kill.
I can't speak on behalf of the jav since even if mine is at lvl10, and the damage + piercing is like being smited by a god, I really don't have much of a love for single shot rifles.
^
Valiant needs 2 headshots on an Infiltrator to kill a Centurion even with Phasic ammo (although Distruptor ammo is actually better for Valiant) or 3 body shots.
Black Widow needs 1 body shot and can do it through thicker walls wihout losing damage. 1 headshot will kill a stationary Phantom.
BW is better at mook killing and at boss killing.
^
Valiant needs 2 headshots on an Infiltrator to kill a Centurion even with Phasic ammo (although Distruptor ammo is actually better for Valiant) or 3 body shots.
Black Widow needs 1 body shot and can do it through thicker walls wihout losing damage. 1 headshot will kill a stationary Phantom.
BW is better at mook killing and at boss killing.
This is a good example of the difference between utility, and "DPS on paper." I believe the math is that the Valiant has the highest DPS, without factoring in anything else.
For a lot of people who played during the first year, the Valiant was a strong competitor not only because it was easy to use, but because back then, all those fancy mods everyone takes for granted either didn't exist, or we were still leveling them up and acquiring them. On top of that, players who completed the weekly challenges were likely to have a higher level Valiant than any other Ultra Rare sniper rifle (barring spending real money.)
With the advent of time and manifest building, the Valiant takes hits in several categories, and I would no longer comfortably call it a top-tier sniper rifle. But, if those DLC mods were taken away, like the +50% weight piercing mod, and the DLC ammo like the Phasics were taken away, I suspect it edges back up a little.
This is a good example of the difference between utility, and "DPS on paper." I believe the math is that the Valiant has the highest DPS, without factoring in anything else.
For a lot of people who played during the first year, the Valiant was a strong competitor not only because it was easy to use, but because back then, all those fancy mods everyone takes for granted either didn't exist, or we were still leveling them up and acquiring them. On top of that, players who completed the weekly challenges were likely to have a higher level Valiant than any other Ultra Rare sniper rifle (barring spending real money.)
With the advent of time and manifest building, the Valiant takes hits in several categories, and I would no longer comfortably call it a top-tier sniper rifle. But, if those DLC mods were taken away, like the +50% weight piercing mod, I suspect it edges back up a little.
Pretty much this - I believe the CSR, though, has the most in a "single clip" dps for SRs.
There was a time where the Valiant and Black Widow were comparable, but Bioware buffed the BW (along with many other guns) and the Valiant was left behind. It's still a great SR though, especially on lower difficulties.
Anyone claiming that the Javelin lacks in CQC needs to git gud. Properly utilized, it enables you to do a ton of damage and get back into cover to reload quickly, which in practical terms is better on higher difficulties than standing in one place with the BW being pelted by multiple foes for a full 3 seconds, unless you're using a tanky kit. You can also use the same strategy with the BW, but that means you aren't doing nearly as much damage as the Javelin.
As mentioned, Javelin isn't nearly as dependant on phasics to get OHK's either. On plat, I can take my Incendiaries on my QFI (for Sabotage TV spec fire explosions) and still kill damn near any basic mook in a single headshot. BW will take two headshots and up to 3 bodyshots for shielded/ barrier mooks without them.
I agree, but the Javelin's fire rate (and if you miss) makes it a weaker CQC option - especially if you're going against multiple mooks and even more so if those mooks are ones like Dragoons, Possessed Captains, etc. who will survive a Javelin bodyshot. I'm not saying it's bad CQC, it's just not as good as a BW imo
As far as Phasics on plat go, you're better off using Warp IV on a BW depending on your kit. Marauders, for example, still take 2 shots to kill with a BW (and a cloaked headshot!) on some infiltrator kits, e.g. the Human, with Phasic III. Warp IV does the same but is superior against most, if not all, bosses.
Sigh...there should have been Phasic IVs
This is a good example of the difference between utility, and "DPS on paper." I believe the math is that the Valiant has the highest DPS, without factoring in anything else.
For a lot of people who played during the first year, the Valiant was a strong competitor not only because it was easy to use, but because back then, all those fancy mods everyone takes for granted either didn't exist, or we were still leveling them up and acquiring them. On top of that, players who completed the weekly challenges were likely to have a higher level Valiant than any other Ultra Rare sniper rifle (barring spending real money.)
With the advent of time and manifest building, the Valiant takes hits in several categories, and I would no longer comfortably call it a top-tier sniper rifle. But, if those DLC mods were taken away, like the +50% weight piercing mod, and the DLC ammo like the Phasics were taken away, I suspect it edges back up a little.
Yeah, the shield gate changes hit the Valiant hard. Your choices used to be either using the SI to strip shields and OSK, use a multi-shot rifle to 2SK, or use a rapid-fire gun like the Indra. Valiant is the best 2SK sniper rifle on the game, so it was very valuable back then. Not so much now.
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