165 réponses à ce sujet

[LemurFromTheId]

For a lot of people who played during the first year, the Valiant was a strong competitor not only because it was easy to use, but because back then, all those fancy mods everyone takes for granted either didn't exist, or we were still leveling them up and acquiring them. On top of that, players who completed the weekly challenges were likely to have a higher level Valiant than any other Ultra Rare sniper rifle (barring spending real money.)

 

With the advent of time and manifest building, the Valiant takes hits in several categories, and I would no longer comfortably call it a top-tier sniper rifle. But, if those DLC mods were taken away, like the +50% weight piercing mod, and the DLC ammo like the Phasics were taken away, I suspect it edges back up a little.

Yeah, the shield gate changes hit the Valiant hard.  Your choices used to be either using the SI to strip shields and OSK, use a multi-shot rifle to 2SK, or use a rapid-fire gun like the Indra.  Valiant is the best 2SK sniper rifle on the game, so it was very valuable back then.  Not so much now.

 

That's small potatoes. There's a very simple reason why Valiant isn't a top-tier SR anymore: Black Widow damage was buffed by 44%, Javelin damage was buffed by 56%, Valiant damage was never buffed.

[Heldarion]

^ 

 

Valiant needs 2 headshots on an Infiltrator to kill a Centurion even with Phasic ammo (although Distruptor ammo is actually better for Valiant) or 3 body shots. 

 

Black Widow needs 1 body shot and can do it through thicker walls wihout losing damage. 1 headshot will kill a stationary Phantom. 

 

BW is better at mook killing and at boss killing. 

 

cloaked headshot*

[Operator m1]

That's small potatoes. There's a very simple reason why Valiant isn't a top-tier SR anymore: Black Widow damage was buffed by 44%, Javelin damage was buffed by 56%, Valiant damage was never buffed.

 

Pretty much this. Thing is, before the BW buff, there wasn't much of a reason to use it over the valiant sans the innate piercing.

 

I don't think we had phasic rounds at the time either, so BW was a ~2SK weapon on gold just like the valiant. It was just a heavier, harder-to-use valiant that fired slower, and reloaded slower with more damage per round (but not enough to save you a bullet, except against a boss unit).

 

If the other rifles weren't buffed, most of this thread would be people saying 'Valiant' right about now. It's debateable if the buffs were a bit much (or even better, if they shoulda've upped the valiant's damage, or its headshot multiplier to give it a niche while making it more worthwhile on non-sniper infiltrators, since many weapons lacking damage outside of the hands of an infiltrator has been a bit of a problem).

 

The valiant may not be 'top tier', but it's far from a junk rifle. The only real beef I have with it as how much themal clips, and commitment it takes to work down an atlas solo with it compared to the black widow. Outside of that, I do love that rifle for how great it feels, and how easy it is to score consecutive headshots across the length of hydra from the LZ, to the crates near the waterfall in the back of the map. That kind of control is pretty important to me, especially since I'm a filthy console peasant.

[LemurFromTheId]

Pretty much this. Thing is, before the BW buff, there wasn't much of a reason to use it over the valiant sans the innate piercing.

 

Before BW was buffed, many people still considered it the best SR for infiltrators, and for a very good reason: its shooting cycle matches TC cycle almost perfectly. You can cloak, fire three times with TC bonuses, reload and reload-cancel with TC.

 

Valiant isn't such a natural fit for Infiltrators, as you'll end up either waiting for TC or firing many of your shots without TC bonuses. Valiant can fire three times, reload with cancel and fire once more, getting four shots off within TC's 2.5 second window. But whether you reload immediately after the fourth shot, by which time your TC will be ready to use again, or fire fifth and sixth shots without TC, you'll be losing DPS compared to BW infiltrators.

 

I don't think Valiant's higher ROF works to its benefit like many seem to suggest. Even for the best headshotters out there BW seems to hit a sweet spot for being able to down mooks fast while giving enough time to line up a shot. Valiant has to fire much faster to keep up with the same DPS, making target switching especially way, way more difficult.

 

That said, Valiant was quite clearly the best SR at least for non-infiltrators before BW and Javelin got those huge buffs.

[Miniditka77]

That's small potatoes. There's a very simple reason why Valiant isn't a top-tier SR anymore: Black Widow damage was buffed by 44%, Javelin damage was buffed by 56%, Valiant damage was never buffed.

 

Well yeah, that too.  But even with those buffs, the BW or Javelin wouldn't be so clearly superior to the Valiant without the shield gate changes and Phasic ammo.  The BW and Javelin were always superior against boss enemies.  The fact that these guns can now OSK mooks makes them clearly better against mooks as well.  There's no longer any reason to use the Valiant unless you care about your cooldown.

[Heldarion]

^ Tactical cloak laughs at your puny cooldowns

[scabs_wartley]

Too much science. A really big gun with one, really big bullet/spread is all I want. Nobody is wrong in this thread. Claymoar and Javelin are the reasons I attempt a never ending quest for level 3 rail amps. Sometimes I put the HVB, piercing mod and APIV on the Javelin for no good reason except that I someday might have to shoot completely through the citadel... the long way. Maybe I'll even get that sought after ''Javelin kill streak'' by taking out a group of keepers.

[Fennekin]

Well, let's put it this way. I score 1st or 2nd pretty much 3/4 of the time when I use my Black Widow... I tend to be 3rd or 4th with any other sniper rifle. Do I suck? Maybe. Is the Black Widow practical and powerful? Definitely. My favourite gun in the game, hands down

[NOO3TASTIC]

Well, let's put it this way. I score 1st or 2nd pretty much 3/4 of the time when I use my Black Widow... I tend to be 3rd or 4th with any other sniper rifle. Do I suck? Maybe. Is the Black Widow practical and powerful? Definitely. My favourite gun in the game, hands down

 

Couldn't agree more. It's the best sniper rifle against all enemies on all difficulties except phantoms on platinum when you are hosting the game. Only thing I am not sure or haven't tested much is that if there is a certain infiltrator setup with amps, ammo, gear that can OHK phantoms on platinum when they are bubbled.

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

I score 1st or 2nd pretty much 3/4 of the time when I use my Black Widow... I tend to be 3rd or 4th with any other sniper rifle.

 

L2SniperRifle.

 

Also, E-Vag thread

[NOO3TASTIC]

L2QuickScope.

 

Corrected

[ImDedicatedToMyApologies]

 

TL;DR: The best sniper rifle in the game is the one you enjoy using the most.

that. To me the best sniper Widow for single shot (I don't like javelin), valiant for fast sniper, and arc pistol for overall best I just love snipers without scopes

[Deerber]

Too much science. A really big gun with one, really big bullet/spread is all I want. Nobody is wrong in this thread. Claymoar and Javelin are the reasons I attempt a never ending quest for level 3 rail amps. Sometimes I put the HVB, piercing mod and drill III on the Javelin for no good reason except that I someday might have to shoot completely through the citadel... the long way. Maybe I'll even get that sought after ''Javelin kill streak'' by taking out a group of keepers.

QFT with a little fix

Also, quite a bunch of people here seem to need to l2javpop

[PatrickBateman]

To end this, a GI with the Javelin is the highest possible sniper damage output possible in this game given that the player is good at using it.

 

A SI with a BW will also do very good as his ED can stagger most mooks giving time to line up shots - but that SI/BW can never compete with a highly competent GI/Javelin. 

[Excella Gionne]

Obviously her husband died.

[acicm2]

Obviously her husband died.

[Miniditka77]

To end this, a GI with the Javelin is the highest possible sniper damage output possible in this game given that the player is good at using it.

 

A SI with a BW will also do very good as his ED can stagger most mooks giving time to line up shots - but that SI/BW can never compete with a highly competent GI/Javelin. 

 

Pretty sure the DAI can just about match the GI's sniper damage (if not exceed it) with the BW.

[Fennekin]

L2SniperRifle.

 

Also, E-Vag thread

I know how to snipe, I'm just saying that I'd rather snipe using the Black Widow than anything else. Besides, I was just being modest and proving my point. I don't suck. I'm actually pretty good. There, I said it. Happy now? :c 

[acicm2]

Pretty sure the DAI can just about match the GI's sniper damage (if not exceed it) with the BW.

 

 

I dont understand how dragon age: Inquisition can match the GI's sniper damage.

[Miniditka77]

I dont understand how dragon age: Inquisition can match the GI's sniper damage.

 

I don't play games with magic and swords and all kinds of sex.  I only play games with space magic, space swords, and all kinds of space sex.

 

Actually, I ran the numbers, and if the DAI can slightly out-damage the GI with a normal BW setup (including debuffs from Recon Mine and Proxy Mine).  Without the debuffs considered, the GI does slightly more damage... unless the Drell has Melee Synergy active, in which case, the GI can't keep up in any situation. 

[PatrickBateman]

No, the DAI can't match a skilled GI/Javelin in damage.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

I prefer BW on DAI and Javelin on GI. I play the Drell is more of a general-purpose mook and elite killer, and the Geth as a boss-slayer. Both are wonderful damage-dealers.

[capn233]

I like the Javelin more.

 

Black Widow is actually much better for some factions on Gold though.

[Krazy_Kirby]

Widow is best but you have to reload cancel to make it better than bw

[acicm2]

I like the Javelin more.

 

Black Widow is actually much better for some factions on Gold though.

dat javelin shooting sound doe.