136 réponses à ce sujet

[ComedicSociopathy]

Well, that's the funny thing that happens when there is an empire dedicated to eradicating every vestige of your culture.

 

Pffft. Elves and their excuses. 

[Medhia_Nox]

@OP:  Aside from the vallaslin (which I simply thought was blood magic that used to be used to make them "immortal") - I pretty much figured this was the reality behind the elves of DA already. 

 

Self-destruction is kind a DA elf "thing". 

[scruffylad]

I thought the reveal at the temple made a lot of sense, and it didn't shock me. (Then again, I was playing a human, so I didn't have any elven identity story background to get wrapped up in, either.)

 

Great empires are rarely built by kind and loving hippies who just want to smell the roses. But this seems to be a trap that a lot of fantasy elf cultures fall into: elves are kind and virtuous and their kingdoms are some sort of eco-candyland, only to be undone by other races which are so filthy and awful that the pure elves just can't bear to stay in the presence of such nasty befoulers. I'm glad to see that BioWare didn't fall into that trap. Not only are the modern elves a mix of slumdwellers and nomads, it turns out that their history has some inconvenient complexity to it as well. Hopefully they keep developing and exploring this down the road; there's a lot of potential to show the good and bad of the elves, especially their ancient history, and how that has or has not carried on into the present day.

[DanteYoda]

This is a BioWare game.  When DA4 comes around, every Dalish in the world will have somehow been given this knowledge.

And they'll look different again, with muscley arms.

[KaiserShep]

And they'll look different again, with muscley arms.

 

Abelas went forth and multiplied.

 

[Luqer]

I'm personally interested in how the truth could affect the Dalish in future games. Assuming word gets out about the truth of Arlathan, it might cause a rift between certain Dalish clans. Think about it. Dalish clans, though each clans are different, all mainly get along and never have we ever heard of a conflict between Dalish clans. This is because they all share the same view of their history and culture. 

 

Now imagine this. Some clans believe the truth of Arlathan and begin to adapt their way of life to the truth, changing the very foundations and traditions they have strived hard to maintain. Then, other clans choose to deny the revelation and stick to the status quo. Recalling back to a certain Dragon Age lore, there is one time of the year where all Dalish clans gather together in a certain place to retell their people's history as part of a way to avoid the risk of forgetting it. What if some clans begin to speak up and try to convince other clans about the truth of Arlathan and attempt to convince them to change the way they do things? It would lead to a very heated argument that would eventually escalate to a Dalish war.

 

We've been through Mage vs Templar wars, we've been through a City Elves uprising. So now, how about a Dalish war?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I'm personally interested in how the truth could affect the Dalish in future games. Assuming word gets out about the truth of Arlathan, it might cause a rift between certain Dalish clans. Think about it. Dalish clans, though each clans are different, all mainly get along and never have we ever heard of a conflict between Dalish clans. This is because they all share the same view of their history and culture. 

 

Now imagine this. Some clans believe the truth of Arlathan and begin to adapt their way of life to the truth, changing the very foundations and traditions they have strived hard to maintain. Then, other clans choose to deny the revelation and stick to the status quo. Recalling back to a certain Dragon Age lore, there is one time of the year where all Dalish clans gather together in a certain place to retell their people's history as part of a way to avoid the risk of forgetting it. What if some clans begin to speak up and try to convince other clans about the truth of Arlathan and attempt to convince them to change the way they do things? It would lead to a very heated argument that would eventually escalate to a Dalish war.

 

We've been through Mage vs Templar wars, we've been through a City Elves uprising. So now, how about a Dalish war?

 

This is what could possibly happen, although I am sure is Fen'Harel manages to awaken all the other Elven "gods", it will be a very different story indeed...

[Antergaton]

This is a BioWare game.  When DA4 comes around, every Dalish in the world will have somehow been given this knowledge.

 

Well put. They would have also obviously accepted it as completely true and not just some rumour the Shems are claiming to ruin their culture. Nope, definitely the truth.

[Antergaton]

Abelas went forth and multiplied.

 

He was sleeping and protecting a temple, he's got some catching up to do. 

[LobselVith8]

I'm personally interested in how the truth could affect the Dalish in future games. Assuming word gets out about the truth of Arlathan, it might cause a rift between certain Dalish clans. Think about it. Dalish clans, though each clans are different, all mainly get along and never have we ever heard of a conflict between Dalish clans. This is because they all share the same view of their history and culture.

But this isn't the case. It's mentioned that clans disagree during the Arlathvhen since not everyone has the same outlook. For example, Clan Lavellan differs greatly from Clan Virnehn. Even the story about the betrayal by Fen'Harel differs between Clan Ralaferin and Clan Sabrae.

I believe the Dalish having their own kingdom again could lead to significant change, but as the remnants of the Dales, I don't think the revelations about Arlathan would have that deep of a repercussion. It's no different than Keeper Hawen and the Dalish adapting to the discovery about humans and elves both playing a part in the start of the war.

Now imagine this. Some clans believe the truth of Arlathan and begin to adapt their way of life to the truth, changing the very foundations and traditions they have strived hard to maintain. Then, other clans choose to deny the revelation and stick to the status quo. Recalling back to a certain Dragon Age lore, there is one time of the year where all Dalish clans gather together in a certain place to retell their people's history as part of a way to avoid the risk of forgetting it. What if some clans begin to speak up and try to convince other clans about the truth of Arlathan and attempt to convince them to change the way they do things? It would lead to a very heated argument that would eventually escalate to a Dalish war.

But the Dalish are already quite different from Arlathan, as Solas addressed. They aren't the remnants of Arlathan, but the Dales. And I don't see why the truth would be resisted when the entire premise of the People is to uncover it; Keeper Hawen and the Dalish accepted the truth about Red Crossing, after all. Even Clan Sabrae didn't think the ancient elves were perfect. In fact, there's no evidence anyone does.

We've been through Mage vs Templar wars, we've been through a City Elves uprising. So now, how about a Dalish war?

But that makes no sense. The Dalish have become divergent from each other for centuries now, without warring with one another. There's no reason they would do so now.

[Ashagar]

I'd have to agree you got appparently clans that get along with humans in that country with all the spirit worshipers, a clan in the free marches that cared so much about human affairs they send a spy to a conclave and can become part of the ruling government of a human city to ones that are pretty much murderous bandits to those strange dalish outside the marquis of Seuit and many who fall between. The Dalish are extremely diverse and haven't gone to war with yet in spite of that at least far as we know. There are two few dalish compared to the humans or the rest of the elves for that matter for them to be killing each other.

[WardenWade]

The ancient empire of Arlathan exercised slavery and Solas wants to bring this "Golden age of the elves" back?

Still I suspect a split between the Dalish. Some may succeed their teachings and accept the forgotten ways of Arlathan or maybe some might be more stubborn and stick with the status quo. I think city elves (especially ones living in rundown alienages) will be the most forthcoming.

Indeed, I wonder if the city elves would understand the struggle, and what Solas

Spoiler

aka the Dread Wolf

is attempting to achieve, better than many Dalish in some cases?  At any rate, in many cases they live the life, and mentality, he is trying to free the elves from.  The city elf Warden's origin story seems to me pretty much spot on to Solas' goals of restoring the past, but not exactly as it was.  Obviously, many of the city elves are extremely conflicted about the Temple of Mythal, but it is interesting to consider.

[TK514]

But the Dalish are already quite different from Arlathan, as Solas addressed. They aren't the remnants of Arlathan, but the Dales. And I don't see why the truth would be resisted when the entire premise of the People is to uncover it; Keeper Hawen and the Dalish accepted the truth about Red Crossing, after all. Even Clan Sabrae didn't think the ancient elves were perfect. In fact, there's no evidence anyone does.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Solas' initial disdain regarding the Dalish a result of him revealing certain truths to whatever clan he encountered (I don't think it is specified) and being rebuffed?  That would indicate that some clans definitely are resistent to some truths when those truths contradict long held beliefs.

[citizen002057394]

I feel for them Dalish. Even if they got their history wrong it doesn't mean that they should abandon their quest for self rule and maintaining their own culture. But I also agree that some of them need to erase their elf-supremacy way of thinking.

 

BTW... thanks to my inquisitor with the male british voice I end up head canonning the Lavellan clan as a well educated and enlightened bunch 

[TheBlackSwordsman]

They're just like Jon Snow

[Heidirs]

It surprised me to realize how self destructive the elves are. The dalish have always said the city elves aren't their people, and now we have the ancient elves saying the dalish aren't their people. It's like, gez, guys, how do you expect to reconstruct your culture if you shun each other?

[Fredward]

Abelas' haughty declaration that 'you are not my people' really shook my elf. He wasn't a particularly good Dalish but the idea that this history his people were trying to recapture, for centuries, was represented by this arrogant, petty **** who would rather destroy the last collection of knowledge, the last known tie to that past just sickened him. Everything he thought he knew turned out to be a big fat lie. It was a character defining moment and it was pretty depressing that that wasn't reflected more in game. A Dalish character REALLY should've gotten a scene or two where they talked about what it all meant to them.

 

Chasing the past in the hopes of regaining a future suddenly seemed like a really bad and extremely sad endeavor.

[SotiCoto]

... Huh?

What reveal? 
I didn't get any of this from the temple... 
And I thought I was paying attention. 

Do you have to be playing as an Elf to get it? 

I've not done the elfy thing in DAI yet. Only Human Mage...  and started a Tal Vashoth... 

BUT I have a "Dalish Traitor" runthrough for DAO and DA2 that I set up in the Keep, and I intend to run it through Inquisition as well.... Every character a female Skinhead Archer with psychopathic tendencies and a special habit of killing off clans of Dalish (she killed the clan in Origins, and her own clan was killed by Hawke).
Now I think about it, that was the background I loaded for my Tal Vashoth too... 

[Chuvvy]

I thought it was nice to have most of my thoughts on them and the ancient elves confirmed.

[Heidirs]

... Huh?

What reveal? 
I didn't get any of this from the temple... 
And I thought I was paying attention. 

If you didn't play a Dalish inquisitor and didn't take Solas when visiting the temple, it's possible you missed some of the more "elfy" stuff.

[LobselVith8]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Solas' initial disdain regarding the Dalish a result of him revealing certain truths to whatever clan he encountered (I don't think it is specified) and being rebuffed? That would indicate that some clans definitely are resistent to some truths when those truths contradict long held beliefs.

I think almost anyone in Thedas would be resistant to a complete stranger claiming that he knows "the truth". However, given that we've witnessed the Dalish accept new truths in Origins, Awakening, and Dragon Age II, I don't see why anyone thinks that the default for the Dalish is a refusal to accept new information.

[Heidirs]

I think almost anyone in Thedas would be resistant to a complete stranger claiming that he knows "the truth". However, given that we've witnessed the Dalish accept new truths in Origins, Awakening, and Dragon Age II, I don't see why anyone thinks that the default for the Dalish is a refusal to accept new information.

 

Whenever you approach them in DA2 or Origins as a non-Dalish, they call you "shem" and tell you to go away. They do seem resistant to strangers at the very least. The Dalish have accepted new truths when faced with hard evidence... though, I imagine Solas was like "I've seen this in the fade" and they were like "psh, you crazy fade walker. Even the shem would think that's nuts. Go away."

[LobselVith8]

Whenever you approach them in DA2 or Origins as a non-Dalish, they call you "shem" and tell you to go away.

Shemlen is elven for human; hardly any of the Dalish we meet use the derogatory term shem. We meet Elora, Lanaya, Gheyna, Cammen, Athras, and others who are civil towards the protagonist. Sarel isn't civil, but that's because his wife was recently killed by the werewolves.

We also know that Andrastian humans are a threat to the Dalish, and have been for many centuries. Human lords and lynch mobs try to attack the clans, some threaten the clans with violence in an attempt to convert, and templars pursue mages.

They do seem resistant to strangers at the very least. The Dalish have accepted new truths when faced with hard evidence... though, I imagine Solas was like "I've seen this in the fade" and they were like "psh, you crazy fade walker. Even the shem would think that's nuts. Go away."

Being wary about outsiders when they have been a constant threat to your people is a very different thing than being unwilling to accept the truth.

[Heidirs]

Shemlen is elven for human; hardly any of the Dalish we meet use the derogatory term shem. We meet Elora, Lanaya, Gheyna, Cammen, Athras, and others who are civil towards the protagonist. Sarel isn't civil, but that's because his wife was recently killed by the werewolves.

 

Shemlen is elven for "child" and is used toward humans, city elves, and basically anyone not Dalish as a derogatory term. Being called a "shem" basically means you are considered too "childish" to understand the ways of The People. 

 

In the situation with Gheyna and Cammen, if you reconcile them, the keeper will tell you that it's good to see some happiness but it's clear you don't understand their ways (the two of them shouldn't have been reconciled under Dalish tradition). When you initially approach the clan as a city elf, you are called a "flat ear" and are told you are as unwelcome as any human. In DA2, if you offer to help master Ilen gather some iron wood, he's offended a "shem" would suggest s/he could succeed where the elves failed. There's several dialogue pops up as you walk through the clan that you better watch your step and that you aren't welcome.

 

The Dalish aren't just wary that outsiders might attack them. They are very stuck in their ways and wary of outsiders affecting them. They have good reason for that, as they are trying to preserve their culture. But most clans aren't just going to welcome a non-Dalish elf and take his word as fact that their current practices are wrong. They might accept certain truths as proof is presented. But if all Solas had to offer was his word (asserting that he, a "shem," knew better) and walks in the Fade (which even the Dalish have a healthy fear of given their wariness of mages), I doubt that went over well.

[TK514]

I think almost anyone in Thedas would be resistant to a complete stranger claiming that he knows "the truth". However, given that we've witnessed the Dalish accept new truths in Origins, Awakening, and Dragon Age II, I don't see why anyone thinks that the default for the Dalish is a refusal to accept new information.

 

So you agree that some clans are resistant to the truth when those truths contradict long held beliefs.