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[Patchwork]

Shemlen is elven for "child" and is used toward humans, city elves, and basically anyone not Dalish as a derogatory term. Being called a "shem" basically means you are considered too "childish" to understand the ways of The People. 

 

In the situation with Gheyna and Cammen, if you reconcile them, the keeper will tell you that it's good to see some happiness but it's clear you don't understand their ways (the two of them shouldn't have been reconciled under Dalish tradition). When you initially approach the clan as a city elf, you are called a "flat ear" and are told you are as unwelcome as any human. In DA2, if you offer to help master Ilen gather some iron wood, he's offended a "shem" would suggest s/he could succeed where the elves failed. There's several dialogue pops up as you walk through the clan that you better watch your step and that you aren't welcome.

 

The Dalish aren't just wary that outsiders might attack them. They are very stuck in their ways and wary of outsiders affecting them. They have good reason for that, as they are trying to preserve their culture. But most clans aren't just going to welcome a non-Dalish elf and take his word as fact that their current practices are wrong. They might accept certain truths as proof is presented. But if all Solas had to offer was his word (asserting that he, a "shem," knew better) and walks in the Fade (which even the Dalish have a healthy fear of given their wariness of mages), I doubt that went over well.

 

A dalish is more likely to call a city elf 'flat ear' and from what I remember of DAO (the Alienage elves weren't featured much in DA2) they freely call humans 'shem' but unlike the dalish they welcome an elf from any origin. Among other insults anyone who left the Alienage probably got called a flat ear by other elves though. 

 

Solas' I saw it in the Fade handwave is weak, Fen'Harel might be used to his word being law but there's no reason why any modern elf should believe Solas when he offers no proof and becomes indignant when opposed.   

[LobselVith8]

Shemlen is elven for "child" and is used toward humans, city elves, and basically anyone not Dalish as a derogatory term.

You're confusing shemlen for da'len, and shemlen is used exclusively for humans by the Dalish. It's also not a derogatory term; you're confusing shemlen for shem.

Being called a "shem" basically means you are considered too "childish" to understand the ways of The People.

No, it doesn't.

In the situation with Gheyna and Cammen, if you reconcile them, the keeper will tell you that it's good to see some happiness but it's clear you don't understand their ways (the two of them shouldn't have been reconciled under Dalish tradition).

Plenty of people express joy when Cammen and Gheyna are together, and your approval with the clan increases.

When you initially approach the clan as a city elf, you are called a "flat ear" and are told you are as unwelcome as any human.

If you tell Mithra the truth, she lets you see Zathrian almost immediately. If you decide to be obtuse, she takes issue with it, since she safeguards the men, women, and children of the clan against threats. She also calls you out on it if you mention her attitude towards you when you're at camp.

In DA2, if you offer to help master Ilen gather some iron wood, he's offended a "shem" would suggest s/he could succeed where the elves failed. There's several dialogue pops up as you walk through the clan that you better watch your step and that you aren't welcome.

So, two people, in comparison to Velanna's clan responding positively when they see her in the company of humans, and Clan Lavellan saving humans who were poisoned with red lyrium, and then stayed to defend the Wycome elves from the Marcher armies, despite the risk of almost certain death.

The Dalish aren't just wary that outsiders might attack them. They are very stuck in their ways and wary of outsiders affecting them.

The Dalish have saved Andrastian elves at different times, and they signed a treaty to aid during the Blight, so I don't see how you can seriously make that assertion.

They are a group dedicated to keeping their religion and their culture despite the attempts to force them to abandon their ways and convert to the Andrastian faith.

They have good reason for that, as they are trying to preserve their culture. But most clans aren't just going to welcome a non-Dalish elf and take his word as fact that their current practices are wrong. They might accept certain truths as proof is presented. But if all Solas had to offer was his word (asserting that he, a "shem," knew better) and walks in the Fade (which even the Dalish have a healthy fear of given their wariness of mages), I doubt that went over well.

The Dalish wouldn't call Solas a "shemlen", since he isn't human.

[Assassino01]

Personally I do not see the issue with what was revealed at the Temple, and by Solas. Arlathan was never going to be some magical wonderland where everyone was happy and nothing went wrong. We were always going to get to know more about the elven gods, just like we are going to get more on the old gods in future installments. The Maker is the only god Bioware won't outright say is real or not (too close to getting into real life religion debate I guess).

 

That the Vallasalin used to be slave markings is a bit of a slap in the face to Dalish pride. No doubt City Elves and humans would lord it over them if they found out (much like people who aren't too fond of the Dalish do on this very forum). But like any other culture they would, after the initial period of shock, spin it into their mythos. "Yes they used to be slave markings to show favour to the gods. Now they signify not slavery, but pride in our culture, and out devotion to our gods", and so forth. 

 

That the Dalish got a lot wrong in regards to their gods we already knew. And so did they.  They admit they don't know much on multiple occasions. They admit they only have "stories". It doesn't change anything in regards to their belief in the elven Pantheon. Only how some of the gods ought to be viewed. 

 

As for Arlathan. Arlathan to the Dalish today is more or less what Rome was to European civilization for a good while. The "ancient empire", the "height of our civilization", the golden age, and so on. Not necessarily something they'd want to recreate in detail. But more a proof that despite many defeats in more recent times "The People" were once great, and can be so again.

 

The new knowledge really changes little for the Dalish in regards to their culture and way of life. The most crucial factors for them; Their lack of a homeland, and persecution at the hands of the humans, are still reality. Until that change the Dalish will likely change little.

[Addai]

The real changes are what we know and what can potentially change metaphysically. We now know the elves could create areas of the Fade (or something like the Fade) where non-elves can't traverse except with difficulty. Their gods are waking up, for good or ill, so these areas are becoming accessible again. For most elves, this probably won't change a thing, which is why Solas isn't much concerned with them- they're too far gone, too entrenched in society in southern Thedas or enslaved in northern Thedas. But for a few, the ancient pathways could change everything.

[JaegerBane]

My view is that it will evolve them or finish them altogether. You might have the odd conservative branding it as Shem rumour, but it won't take long for younger elves - who tend to be the ones that question the traditions more than anyone - to start questioning the tattoos and strict adherence to the Keepers.

I was fascinated by the revelation. As much as I like the Dalish, I was suspicious of how it was always humans that caused every woe the elves suffered and how it was their fault and they stole their history blah blah blah, at some point it takes two to tango and something that profound didn't sound like the fault of a single world power.

What I'm interested in finding out was whether the Elves' prior culture had something to do with Fen'Harel's actions.

[Heidirs]

Perhaps I am mixing up the terms. Regardless, Solas would have been seen as an outsider. Him just going up to the Dalish and telling them they are wrong (if that's the only way he approached it) would not have been taken kindly. 

[Poledo]

Our own history is based on stories passed down either through oration or written documentation and always subject to the person's personal views who is documenting it. It is completely inaccurate. We are the Dalish, think about it.

[zambingo]

That's a good observation, Poledo. However to say history is completely inaccurate could be a stretch. There are bound to be truths mixed with perceptions.

[Shahadem]

Our own history is based on stories passed down either through oration or written documentation and always subject to the person's personal views who is documenting it. It is completely inaccurate. We are the Dalish, think about it.

 

Except that written documentation tends to be more accurately reproduced. We also have other ways of learning and verifying history, such as studying ruins, DNA, etc.

 

Solas points out a huge problem with the DA narrative. The memories of major events are recorded and kept in the Fade. So why does noone other than Solas know anything about these memories in the Fade even though the spirits are all fully aware of them?

 

There was way too much ill conceived retconning in DA:I.

[Mir Aven]

Didn't like them before still don't like them after. Although the whole reveal that humans didn't have anything to do with the downfall of elves and that the elves pretty much destroyed themselves did make me laugh.

[Bad King]

Didn't like them before still don't like them after. Although the whole reveal that humans didn't have anything to do with the downfall of elves and that the elves pretty much destroyed themselves did make me laugh.

 

Tevinter still conquered and enslaved the elves, but Abelas blames the elves for their own downfall due to their civil war which made them ripe for conquest by external powers. It's like the British monk Gildas's work De Excidio et Conquestu Britanniae in which he blames infighting and corruption for the downfall of post-Roman Britain in the face of invading Pictish, Germanic and Irish tribes.

[Mir Aven]

Tevinter still conquered and enslaved the elves, but Abelas blames the elves for their own downfall due to their civil war which made them ripe for conquest by external powers. It's like the British monk Gildas's work De Excidio et Conquestu Britanniae in which he blames infighting and corruption for the downfall of post-Roman Britain in the face of invading Pictish, Germanic and Irish tribes.

 

I didn't mean to say that humans never did anything wrong. It's the fact that Dalish Elves blamed their whole downfall on humans and never even considered that they could have made a mistake themselves that I find funny now that we know the truth. Basically as I understand it the Dalish belived that humans are solely responsible for what they became today.