251 réponses à ce sujet

[Fredward]

This thread is so interesting. I mean I do this too so this isn't a judgement but it's so interesting to see how people aren't just content with saying they prefer something and leaving it there, they have to convince themselves and/or their audience (or themselves BY trying to convince an audience) that one is better than another. Usually by pointing out how other choices are somehow lacking. It's like we have to devalue to value. Especially interesting when you consider the dynamic is probably similar with cultural/racial/religious tension.

 

Something that I've noticed with myself though is that when I switch to another race/class/whatever I do the exact same thing. Like I'm value the current one at the expense of the previous one even though it was clearly good enough then. It's weird.

[Korva]

This thread is so interesting. I mean I do this too so this isn't a judgement but it's so interesting to see how people aren't just content with saying they prefer something and leaving it there, they have to convince themselves and/or their audience (or themselves BY trying to convince an audience) that one is better than another.

 

To be fair, considering that the OP is pretty dismissive of human characters and people who play them, it's hardly a surprise that this attitude got some pushback and set the tone for the rest of the thread.

 

The Female Elf in game looks fine,

 

In your opinion, sure. I can't stand to look at these flimsy little things, because I want my characters to have at least some physical power and presence. Sure, the human model sadly doesn't have that either (hardly any female character in any game is ever allowed to), but at least it doesn't look quite as pathetic as the elf model.

 

The Dwarves in Inquisition look like how Dwarves have always looked.

 

Indeed. The male dwarves in the setting have something of a distinct look and always did. The female dwarves don't and never did. That's my point.

 

The idea that Elves = Starving Babyteen &  Female Dwarves = Short & Cute....Comes from a human centric point of view...A point of view that while does lay a solid foundation, is ultimately restrictive and constrictive.

 

What's restrictive is the still-prevalent notion that female characters must be "pretty" by real-world human standards, even when their male counterparts get distinct non-human looks. That's not my doing, that's on the heads of the designers and the people pulling the designers' strings.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

To be fair, considering that the OP is pretty dismissive of human characters and people who play them, it's hardly a surprise that this attitude got some pushback and set the tone for the rest of the thread.

 

 

In your opinion, sure. I can't stand to look at these flimsy little things, because I want my characters to have at least some physical power and presence. Sure, the human model sadly doesn't have that either (hardly any female character in any game is ever allowed to), but at least it doesn't look quite as pathetic as the elf model.

 

 

Indeed. The male dwarves in the setting have something of a distinct look and always did. The female dwarves don't and never did. That's my point.

 

 

What's restrictive is the still-prevalent notion that female characters must be "pretty" by real-world human standards, even when their male counterparts get distinct non-human looks. That's not my doing, that's on the heads of the designers and the people pulling the designers' strings.

 

There are plenty of reasons to dismiss human characters, especially human playable characters in Dragon Age. For one, they have little to no variety. All of them are nobility or had ties to nobility. Cousland, Hawke, Amell, Trevelyan. To say that it is overused would be an understatement. By contrast Elves have had variations between Dalish and City. Dwaves have the most variations which are Noble, Castless and Surfacer. Second is their bonus ability. It sounds good on paper and in early levels but the reality is you can legitimately get 5 extra skill points and you can duplicate Amulets of power make them a poor choice. 

 

What do you mean pretty by real world human standards ? Like have an asymmetrical face, a face that is not scarred, some neotenous features ? Those are just things that make not just humans but other biological creatures or even objects appealing. You know, like how pandas or cats are cute. But that must be the due to some imposition of standards, not because some features are just appealing. 

 

By your logic on flimsy-ness, then the many insects that exist are weak yet there are many who can lift proportionally more weight than their own mass. So it could not be down to the fact that Elves have some biological differences in their muscle and bone structure. It must be because its flimsy. Talk about being human-centric.

 

So Lace Harding and Bianca Davri look like they do not because they can look like that ? Or are you judging the entire Dwarven female in Thedas based on two women ? That's shallow, don't you think ? Female Dwarves can have beards. Can the other female races grow beards ? I do not think so. Plus, is females with beards pretty?. Furthermore, characters like Cassandra and Vivienne who are not conventionally attractive but still exist in game. You could even say that the Female Elven body is not conventionally attractive. 

 

Your entire argument is based on a human-centric perspective. An extremely limiting perspective and one that is most likely driven by self-insert. 

[parico]

Human just fits the story best.  I played a qunauri first just because I could.  Then a human.  The ball in orlais is much better as a human.  I tried the elves they look silly and have no good armor.  A dwarve... I never have liked them since they all look like fat little butterballs.  I prefered the human backstory in Origins too.  I was disapointed in the lack of backstory for all the characters in inquisition though.  Origins and DA2 gave you a connection to your characters via backstory that this game was lacking.    

[SurelyForth]

There are plenty of reasons to dismiss human characters, especially human playable characters in Dragon Age. For one, they have little to no variety. All of them are nobility or had ties to nobility. Cousland, Hawke, Amell, Trevelyan. To say that it is overused would be an understatement. By contrast Elves have had variations between Dalish and City. Dwaves have the most variations which are Noble, Castless and Surfacer. Second is their bonus ability. It sounds good on paper and in early levels but the reality is you can legitimately get 5 extra skill points and you can duplicate Amulets of power make them a poor choice. 

 

[snip]

 

Your entire argument is based on a human-centric perspective. An extremely limiting perspective and one that is most likely driven by self-insert. 

 

This, Fredward. This is why people are kind of defensive about who they prefer to play. 10 pages and this **** keeps getting pulled out as if repetition alone will erase the nuances and hooks for interesting storytelling that do exist and make statements like "Hawke was just like Cousland!" true. 

[Han Yolo]

I'm attracted to human dudes, so I like playing one. 'Tis shallow I know.

Don't find humans boring at all though. I mean, it's a fantasy world and they have fantasy cultures. I like Orlais (Well, I wanna burn it to the ground but it's interesting nevertheless), and Ferelden, and Rivain.

[TheRatPack55]

I'm attracted to human dudes, so I like playing one. 'Tis shallow I know.

Don't find humans boring at all though. I mean, it's a fantasy world and they have fantasy cultures. I like Orlais (Well, I wanna burn it to the ground but it's interesting nevertheless), and Ferelden, and Rivain.

 

Comfort yourself with the thought that you at least straight-out admit it, while many of the vocal 'other' races apologists apparently only play them for the articles codex entries... 

[Beregond5]

I couldn't justify the presence of a Dwarf in the Conclave, to be honest. Sure, the backstory the game offers you is good enough, but, comparing it to a human mage's or even a human noble's reasons for being there, it feels rather weak - at least in my mind. The same could be said about Qunari.

And the only reason that I haven't completed a playthrough with an elf yet, however shallow it is, is the way their body shape looks. Too spindly.

Still, that doesn't mean I won't try them out at some point, if only for a change of pace.

[Fredward]

I couldn't justify the presence of a Dwarf in the Conclave, to be honest. Sure, the backstory the game offers you is good enough, but, comparing it to a human mage's or even a human noble's reasons for being there, it feels rather weak - at least in my mind. The same could be said about Qunari.

 

To me the background that makes the least sense for showing up at the Conclave is the elf. Dwarves have a vested interest in the lyrium trade which the Conclave was gonna have a major impact on however it went, we've seen qunari mercenaries before and it's weird but not THAT weird that they'd be employed as a neutral third party peace keeping force, humans have that Chantry connection and mages. Well mages. Elves though? Who sends someone with extremely obvious facial tattoos to go spy? That's just weird.

 

Not that this actual means anything. You can headcanon you way around anything. For instance my Dalish elf was clashing with his clan and the Keeper sent him to the Conclave to get him away for a while as much as to figure out what was happening there.

[Panda]

Cause Cullen doesn't like qunaris

 

I have currently one human woman, one qunari man and one dwarf woman. I'd like to do one human man and one elf (idk which sex) in some point.

[Beregond5]

To me the background that makes the least sense for showing up at the Conclave is the elf. Dwarves have a vested interest in the lyrium trade which the Conclave was gonna have a major impact on however it went, we've seen qunari mercenaries before and it's weird but not THAT weird that they'd be employed as a neutral third party peace keeping force, humans have that Chantry connection and mages. Well mages. Elves though? Who sends someone with extremely obvious facial tattoos to go spy? That's just weird.

 

Not that this actual means anything. You can headcanon you way around anything. For instance my Dalish elf was clashing with his clan and the Keeper sent him to the Conclave to get him away for a while as much as to figure out what was happening there.

Hmm...  I didn't realise the Qunari was there as security, I thought he was there to spy. I must have mixed up backgrounds.

And I couldn't agree more about about the tattoos. XD It makes me wonder why there couldn't be an elf who was part of the Circle in one of the character choices, really. I suppose then it wouldn't be that different from a human mage's

[coldflame]

I am not that far in for the sp, but from what I have heard human fits better with the story and a human Mage fits best and actually makes you feel like the chose one.

[Killdren88]

I wouldn't be caught dead playing another race. Humans are superior.

[Addai]

To me the background that makes the least sense for showing up at the Conclave is the elf. Dwarves have a vested interest in the lyrium trade which the Conclave was gonna have a major impact on however it went, we've seen qunari mercenaries before and it's weird but not THAT weird that they'd be employed as a neutral third party peace keeping force, humans have that Chantry connection and mages. Well mages. Elves though? Who sends someone with extremely obvious facial tattoos to go spy? That's just weird.

I'm sure Lavellan didn't say "I'm here to spy." A Dalish elf might very well be interested in the mage-templar war and could present themselves as an emissary/ observer, though for the clan's purpose they'd be there to see what's going on and judge whether it's a threat to the clans or not.

 

Half the time people say "plot hole" they just need to exercise a little imagination.

[Frocharocha]

I wouldn't be caught dead playing another race. Humans are superior.

"You humans all are racist!"

-Random Turian.

[LobselVith8]

To me the background that makes the least sense for showing up at the Conclave is the elf. Dwarves have a vested interest in the lyrium trade which the Conclave was gonna have a major impact on however it went, we've seen qunari mercenaries before and it's weird but not THAT weird that they'd be employed as a neutral third party peace keeping force, humans have that Chantry connection and mages. Well mages. Elves though? Who sends someone with extremely obvious facial tattoos to go spy? That's just weird.

The elven protagonist pretended to be a mercenary; hence, the mercenary gear. There is also a precedent for Dalish elves who voluntarily leave the clan, as Velanna, Arianni, and Merrill prove.

Not that this actual means anything. You can headcanon you way around anything. For instance my Dalish elf was clashing with his clan and the Keeper sent him to the Conclave to get him away for a while as much as to figure out what was happening there.

Templars have been a threat to the clans for centuries; it's reasonable for the Dalish to have concerns about the Mage-Templar War since it could impact all the People, given the free mages among the clans.

[Killdren88]

"You humans all are racist!"

-Random Turian.

 

The day we encounter space Aliens, is the day racism among humans end. I'm almost willing to bet money on it.

[heretica]

I ALWAYS play as human mage. 

 

Is it serious, doctor?

[Hazegurl]

There are plenty of reasons to dismiss human characters, especially human playable characters in Dragon Age. For one, they have little to no variety.

*snip salty rant*

You just sound salty because humans are the popular choice.

 

RatPack "Comfort yourself with the thought that you at least straight-out admit it, while many of the vocal 'other' races apologists apparently only play them for the articles codex entries...  ;)"

 

Perhaps they're ashamed to admit they find anorexic bobble heads and hobbits attractive. lol!

 

Oh yeah and Tim Curry in Legend.

 

 

My personal sin.

[Korva]

This, Fredward. This is why people are kind of defensive about who they prefer to play. 10 pages and this **** keeps getting pulled out as if repetition alone will erase the nuances and hooks for interesting storytelling that do exist and make statements like "Hawke was just like Cousland!" true. 

 

Yep. He's not worth engaging with, because he doesn't talk to, but talk at. And p*ss condescension like it's going out of style. I get not liking a playable race for either lore or aesthetics -- hell, as I said, I hate the elf model and can't bear to look at it, so I don't know if I'll ever manage my planned elf mage playthrough. But I'm no going to rail at elf players for "daring" to like something I don't as if that was the original sin or something.

 

One's preference for one race (or class, for that matter -- why not insult people who play non-mages, too?) or another in a video game doesn't make anyone more or less sophisticated.

[Fredward]

Half the time people say "plot hole" they just need to exercise a little imagination.

Indeed.

 

The elven protagonist pretended to be a mercenary; hence, the mercenary gear. There is also a precedent for Dalish elves who voluntarily leave the clan, as Velanna, Arianni, and Merrill prove.


Templars have been a threat to the clans for centuries; it's reasonable for the Dalish to have concerns about the Mage-Templar War since it could impact all the People, given the free mages among the clans.

 

The templars are an ambient threat to Dalish mages, not an active one. The only time we've seen them bother with a clan was with Merrill's and that clan had become semi-permanent and the mage they were after was Feynriel, arguably not even a Dalish mage at all. But it's your headcanon so... ~shrug~

[Addai]

The templars are an ambient threat to Dalish mages, not an active one. The only time we've seen them bother with a clan was with Merrill's and that clan had become semi-permanent and the mage they were after was Feynriel, arguably not even a Dalish mage at all. But it's your headcanon so... ~shrug~

I'm sure the templar corpses in the Brecilian Forest in DAO weren't there by accident. And if they were out hunting Morrigan and Flemeth as Morrigan describes, it stands to reason they'd be doing the same to Dalish keepers.

[KaiserShep]

There are plenty of reasons to dismiss human characters, especially human playable characters in Dragon Age. For one, they have little to no variety. All of them are nobility or had ties to nobility. Cousland, Hawke, Amell, Trevelyan. To say that it is overused would be an understatement. By contrast Elves have had variations between Dalish and City. Dwaves have the most variations which are Noble, Castless and Surfacer. Second is their bonus ability. It sounds good on paper and in early levels but the reality is you can legitimately get 5 extra skill points and you can duplicate Amulets of power make them a poor choice. 

 

Seems to me that this is more an issue with the limitation the writers place in the story than it being an actual fault with the option itself, like, for example, the lack of a City Elf PC for Inquisition. In the next game, we could get just as much a variety of backgrounds for a human protagonist, depending on what Bio writes for the plot.

[Rykoth]

Because until mods can do meshes and come out with more qunari looking armors, I'm not playing qunari. I want to look the part, and thus human is it for me right now.