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Loghain's Broodmothers


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#51
Cecilia

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That's a bit of a stretch. It's a long way from saying "we won't do what you want simply because you tell us to" to actually going to war. More importantly, there's no way Teagan could even have fought that war, because he was holed up in Redcliffe immediately afterward with no outside communications.

An entirely valid alternative reading is that Teagan represented a suspicious opinion among many banns, one that was eminently justifiable. They had seen their fellow nobles, their King, Loghain, and a bunch of Grey Wardens march into the Wilds to fight darkspawn; they then saw what was left of the army running hell bent for leather out of the Wilds, minus a king, all his Wardens, and a sizable chunk of the army. Loghain blamed everybody but himself for the defeat and immediately set about making himself de facto ruler of Ferelden.

Under those circumstances, it would be entirely reasonable to question Loghain's account of events. So too would it be reasonable to point out that he wasn't the leader of the country and the bannorn were under no obligation to simply follow his orders if they weren't inclined to do so. And it would be reasonable to question, if Loghain failed to defeat the darkspawn with the forces he lost at Ostagar, why he should be entrusted with anything else. It's well and good to point out that Loghain (probably) had no direct knowledge of why the Wardens were necessary to deal with the Blight (a common tack of Loghain's biggest fans, including, if I'm not mistaken, you yourself), but it's a little tendentious to then turn around and say that the bannorn should simply have done what he demanded without questioning, as though Loghain were any different in this respect from the Wardens.

Teagan's comments were not intrinsically an act of rebellion. Perhaps, given the rapidity with which Loghain seized power, they were instead a suggestion to negotiate: they would not bow to Loghain simply because he demanded it, but perhaps they would do so if he gave them some sort of positive reason. A charitable reading of Loghain's actions after Ostagar is that he wanted to restore order quickly and unite the country against the (darkspawn/Orlesian/nug/whatever) threat, but even if this was the case, the actions he took to do so were functionally indistinguishable from a coup d'état, and people generally need more to go along with such a coup than "because I said so". And, even if Loghain were a genuinely disinterested actor, surely even his most die-hard supporters would concede that he was a singularly unpersuasive politician; the civil war may simply have started because he refused to explain his actions to anybody.

Anyway, it's extremely easy to explain the events after Ostagar without saying that that the bannorn launched a suicidal war against Loghain because reasons. That doesn't mean that you're wrong; perhaps the bannorn did exactly that, but there's simply no evidentiary basis for it one way or the other.

Not that an evidentiary basis would mean much anyway, considering the extent to which the developers alter and retcon the story based on their whims at the time. Ostagar has gone from being Loghain's fault (Origins) to Cailan's fault (Return to Ostagar) to Loghain's fault again (DA2) to an easy joke at the fans' expense (Threnn in Inquisition) to an event with an unknowable explanation that the devs are clearly interested in keeping ambiguous (Solas in Inquisition). They might very well decide something else tomorrow, in service of a different story. Trying to determine objectively correct lore explanations for virtually anything is a fool's errand.

 

Not to mention the fact that Loghain is implied to be highly unpopular among members of the nobility, some of whom still refused to genuinely acknowledge Anora's qualifications as a Queen and viewed both father and daughter as up-jumped commoners. We can argue all day over whether or not the Ferelden nobility is idiotic, but when we're dealing with a situation in which the country has lost its King and there is no heir to the throne, failing to be conciliatory and refusing to make concessions to the nobility is a sure-fire way to cause a civil war. Whether or not Loghain's intentions were noble, his actions (including selling elves into slavery - something which he explicitly does not deny responsibility for and describes as a "necessary evil") are very questionable. It is also highly suspect that Loghain could know nothing of Howe's treachery, even if he was ignorant of the massacre of the Couslands, and, regardless of your political needs, elevating and abetting someone like Howe indicates someone who either no longer has the interests of his country at heart, or someone who has a very skewed idea of what those interests are. (Or if we're arguing Loghain was just manipulated by Howe - well how idiotic is Loghain when he trusts someone like Howe and makes use of a known maleficar



#52
leaguer of one

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The nobles action destroyed Fereldan. Loghain is a general. He told them to unite and fight the blight together. Then Teagen gets all stupid and rebellious just because Loghain isn't Maric or his descendent. The only thing Loghain did wrong was outlawing the Wardens but the Wardens took their sweet time lighting the beacon and Loghain had no idea the building was over run by Darkspawn so any sane man would get suspicious of those actions.

 

Beside Loghain was right, Cailan was about to throw away his Anora for Celene (I can't imagine any father being happy with that) and someone as cunning as Celene would have made Cailan her tool. Not to mention it's been confirmed that Alistair is half-Orlesian so Loghain was technically right about the Warden PC trying to give Fereldan into Orlesian hand.

More like Teagen got upset that he betrayed his king. People don't like working with people who backstab people. And even if they banded together fereldin would of still fallen being that there would be no wardens to help them and kill the archdemon.



#53
Monica21

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That's a bit of a stretch. It's a long way from saying "we won't do what you want simply because you tell us to" to actually going to war. More importantly, there's no way Teagan could even have fought that war, because he was holed up in Redcliffe immediately afterward with no outside communications.

An entirely valid alternative reading is that Teagan represented a suspicious opinion among many banns, one that was eminently justifiable. They had seen their fellow nobles, their King, Loghain, and a bunch of Grey Wardens march into the Wilds to fight darkspawn; they then saw what was left of the army running hell bent for leather out of the Wilds, minus a king, all his Wardens, and a sizable chunk of the army. Loghain blamed everybody but himself for the defeat and immediately set about making himself de facto ruler of Ferelden.

Under those circumstances, it would be entirely reasonable to question Loghain's account of events. So too would it be reasonable to point out that he wasn't the leader of the country and the bannorn were under no obligation to simply follow his orders if they weren't inclined to do so. And it would be reasonable to question, if Loghain failed to defeat the darkspawn with the forces he lost at Ostagar, why he should be entrusted with anything else. It's well and good to point out that Loghain (probably) had no direct knowledge of why the Wardens were necessary to deal with the Blight (a common tack of Loghain's biggest fans, including, if I'm not mistaken, you yourself), but it's a little tendentious to then turn around and say that the bannorn should simply have done what he demanded without questioning, as though Loghain were any different in this respect from the Wardens.

Teagan's comments were not intrinsically an act of rebellion. Perhaps, given the rapidity with which Loghain seized power, they were instead a suggestion to negotiate: they would not bow to Loghain simply because he demanded it, but perhaps they would do so if he gave them some sort of positive reason. A charitable reading of Loghain's actions after Ostagar is that he wanted to restore order quickly and unite the country against the (darkspawn/Orlesian/nug/whatever) threat, but even if this was the case, the actions he took to do so were functionally indistinguishable from a coup d'état, and people generally need more to go along with such a coup than "because I said so". And, even if Loghain were a genuinely disinterested actor, surely even his most die-hard supporters would concede that he was a singularly unpersuasive politician; the civil war may simply have started because he refused to explain his actions to anybody.

Anyway, it's extremely easy to explain the events after Ostagar without saying that that the bannorn launched a suicidal war against Loghain because reasons. That doesn't mean that you're wrong; perhaps the bannorn did exactly that, but there's simply no evidentiary basis for it one way or the other.

Not that an evidentiary basis would mean much anyway, considering the extent to which the developers alter and retcon the story based on their whims at the time. Ostagar has gone from being Loghain's fault (Origins) to Cailan's fault (Return to Ostagar) to Loghain's fault again (DA2) to an easy joke at the fans' expense (Threnn in Inquisition) to an event with an unknowable explanation that the devs are clearly interested in keeping ambiguous (Solas in Inquisition). They might very well decide something else tomorrow, in service of a different story. Trying to determine objectively correct lore explanations for virtually anything is a fool's errand.

 

It may a stretch, but the fact is that Teagan was the only noble in Denerim to publicly speak out against Loghain. He also likely didn't know he would be holed up in Redcliffe immediately after Denerim.

You will find very few (if any) Loghain supporters defending his political aptitude, but that's not the argument being presented. The argument is that Loghain ignored the darkspawn in favor of fighting a civil war when in fact the opposite is true. Loghain was forced into a civil war when what he needed were troops to fight the darkspawn. And in Loghain's defense, who else was there? Loghain is the only Teryn left and has more experience commanding an army than the rest of the nobles combined. He went about it incredibly poorly, but his title is earned and his experience is not meaningless. The nobility just seem to have very short memories, having somehow forgotten that Orlesians held their lands a mere 30 years ago.

I think your comparison of Loghain's knowledge of the Wardens and the Blight versus the nobility following Loghain is good, but still off. Loghain's reasons for mistrusting the Wardens and the Orlesians are well-established, at least for the player. Even Eamon says something like, "I know Loghain. He never wanted power." The nobility's distrust of Loghain is rooted in nothing more than him being born a commoner, and is more dislike that distrust.

The bannorn were not required to follow his orders, but by choosing not to where does that leave them? Exactly where they ended up, losing the civil war and losing their only commander, however it happens. This is the same bannorn that fought each other over what were essentially property-line disputes, so thinking that they went to war with Loghain because reasons is really not out of the realm of possibility, and there is in fact some evidence for it. There's a power vacuum, so nobles will fight.

Teagan may not have intended his comments to spark a rebellion, but if that is true then he can be accused of the same political ineptitude as Loghain. Publicly speaking against a higher-ranking noble, the father of your queen, and the leader of your armies is going to lead to the kind of reaction Teagan's comments ended up getting. Purposefully or not, he built support for a rebellion merely by stating it.


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#54
Monica21

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More like Teagen got upset that he betrayed his king. People don't like working with people who backstab people. And even if they banded together fereldin would of still fallen being that there would be no wardens to help them and kill the archdemon.

 

Teagan wasn't at Ostagar and has no idea what happened. Teagan's point of view is meaningful only in that it potentially sways the rest of the nobles into civil war.



#55
DinkyD

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It's amazing how many people who defend Loghain don't actually read his Codex entry. His codex entry states that Loghain's supporters  are fighting "their neighbours who blame him for the death of the King" suspicion is not restricted to the warden and her/his allies. Teagan is no political man, and has no influence over the nobility. Teagan is putting voice to the feeling in the landsmeet. Teagan says "not all believe" Loghain's story -  he hasn't created it he doesn't have that influence.


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#56
Monica21

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It's amazing how many people who defend Loghain don't actually read his Codex entry. His codex entry states that Loghain's supporters  are fighting "their neighbours who blame him for the death of the King" suspicion is not restricted to the warden and her/his allies. Teagan is no political man, and has no influence over the nobility. Teagan is putting voice to feeling in the landsmeet. Teagan says "not all believe" Loghain's story -  he hasn't created it he doesn't have that influence.

 

People who defend Loghain argue against what's presented. Like the spurious and quite ridiculous original post about telling the Landsmeet how Broodmothers are made in an effort to make the case against Loghain that much worse.

 

That said, no one has said his codex entry has nothing to do with the war. Many of us just think the nobles are really stupid.


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#57
leaguer of one

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Teagan wasn't at Ostagar and has no idea what happened. Teagan's point of view is meaningful only in that it potentially sways the rest of the nobles into civil war.

He knew what happen he just did not directly saw it. Even then the act ensured that Loghan would of lost no matter what because he let all the wardens needed to end the blight die. He's doomed to fail no matter what he does.



#58
leaguer of one

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People who defend Loghain argue against what's presented. Like the spurious and quite ridiculous original post about telling the Landsmeet how Broodmothers are made in an effort to make the case against Loghain that much worse.

 

That said, no one has said his codex entry has nothing to do with the war. Many of us just think the nobles are really stupid.

It a case that his actions made things worse. Imagine if you have a general who did an action hubris that made the army he is fighting stronger. That's what loghain is doing in all of dao.



#59
DinkyD

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People who defend Loghain argue against what's presented. Like the spurious and quite ridiculous original post about telling the Landsmeet how Broodmothers are made in an effort to make the case against Loghain that much worse.

 

That said, no one has said his codex entry has nothing to do with the war. Many of us just think the nobles are really stupid.

 

Yes, sorry for any confusion, it wasn't replying to the original post I should have quoted. My contention was around whether blame for Ostagar was limited to  teagan and the wardens which was the area you were addressing?



#60
Monica21

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Yes, sorry for any confusion, it wasn't replying to the original post I should have quoted. My contention was around whether blame for Ostagar was limited to  teagan and the wardens which was the area you were addressing?

 

Um, I'm not sure what you mean. The loss at Ostagar didn't have anything to do with Teagan and only kinda sorta is about the Wardens, if only because they failed to accurately represent what the Ferelden forces would be facing.



#61
dragonflight288

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He knew what happen he just did not directly saw it. Even then the act ensured that Loghan would of lost no matter what because he let all the wardens needed to end the blight die. He's doomed to fail no matter what he does.

 

He knew Loghain retreated. He made it out, and even believes it himself, that the reasons for the retreat were self-serving and a fortuitous power grab. 

 

And yes, Loghain was doomed no matter what would have happened because he needed Wardens and Loghain supporters don't hand wave that away. We defend his actions at Ostagar because given his experience with the wardens and orlesians in the past, and the historical precedent of both being highly suspicious (with Orlais being confirmed to be a threat, just not the one he saw. Celene wanted to achieve through marriage and diplomacy what Mehren failed to do with force,) and we don't fault him for his decision at Ostagar because he was working with what he had. 

 

He wouldn't know a Warden is needed to kill an archdemon. The Wardens are remarkably tight-lipped about that. Not even Alistar, who was a warden six months before we were knew the secret. 

 

He wouldn't know it was a blight. There was no sign of an archdemon and the wardens weren't saying why they thought it was a blight beyond that it was their opinion and they felt it. It's not like Duncan could go to Cailan and Loghain and say "I'm having dreams about the archdemon. There's a blight," would be taken seriously. Kind of like Shepard in ME. "What are we going to tell them? I had a bad dream?" Even Cailan doubted it was a blight. 

 

History has shown the danger of allowing Orlais to help with blights. They went to Nevarra during the third blight ostensibly to help, and never left. We even hear the soldiers around Ostagar talking about it. 

 

The beacon, according to the devs was an hour late. And as Alistair says after defeating the Ogre, we surely missed the signal. The plan had fallen apart well before the beacon was lit, and it was no longer Loghain sweeping in and flanking the darkspawn while Cailan and the Wardens held strong.

 

Even Wynne admits to abandoning the King in party banter with Loghain when she tries calling him out on it, although she tries to justify it by saying she had no army, and Loghain responds that he had no magic to help break the darkspawn ranks. And this is proven in the mage origin where Duncan tells the Warden that only seven mages were sent to Ostagar, and Gregoire opposed sending more. 

 

Loghain's defenders don't defend him selling elves into slavery, poisoning Eamon or hiring the crows, but we also don't unfairly assign him blame for every little thing that happens because he's the main antagonist. Nor do we hate Teagon. We feel Teagon's idealism got in the way of the real threat of the darkspawn and helped incite the civil war because he misconstrued Loghain's motivations for the retreat. 


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#62
DinkyD

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Um, I'm not sure what you mean. The loss at Ostagar didn't have anything to do with Teagan and only kinda sorta is about the Wardens, if only because they failed to accurately represent what the Ferelden forces would be facing.

 

I meant that it wasn't only Teagan that blamed Loghain for what happened at Ostagar - you mentioned that it was only Teagan that spoke out, but my point that he wasn't voicing just his own opinion - it was shared by others in the Landsmeet specifically.

 

Actually, what's the thread called? Yeah, this is a bit weird.



#63
phaonica

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So at landsmeet instead of makin the big decision on Loghain; bring in some of the Legion of the Dead and have them explane on how broodmothers are made and explain to him what exactly he did when he let The land he ruled fall. I mean yeah some of his peasants escaped and the men captured were probably eaten but the females? Nice fresh broodmothers if they survive the process. To bad Anora wasn't home when the dark spawn came a'calling.


Yeah, and while you're at it, go ahead an execute every single person in the world who isn't a Grey Warden or Legion of the Dead member, because clearly they aren't actively doing anything about the rampant Broodmother problem, either.
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#64
TEWR

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Loghain's defenders don't defend him... ...poisoning Eamon or hiring the crows

 

Well, I do, but mainly because these two things don't bother me. The former's politics and the latter's flattering.



#65
Cecilia

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I meant that it wasn't only Teagan that blamed Loghain for what happened at Ostagar - you mentioned that it was only Teagan that spoke out, but my point that he wasn't voicing just his own opinion - it was shared by others in the Landsmeet specifically.

 

Actually, what's the thread called? Yeah, this is a bit weird.

 

Yeah~ I'm not Loghain's biggest fan, in fact I rather dislike him, but the OP's topic is ... yeah. It reminds me of how some people who don't like Viv blame her for everything from murdering Bastien's wife to slowly poisoning Bastien. (I still don't like Loghain and never will ugh thinking about his face raises my blood pressure 10/10 would execute again)



#66
dragonflight288

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I meant that it wasn't only Teagan that blamed Loghain for what happened at Ostagar - you mentioned that it was only Teagan that spoke out, but my point that he wasn't voicing just his own opinion - it was shared by others in the Landsmeet specifically,.

 

Actually, what's the thread called? Yeah, this is a bit weird.

 

Ah. 

 

Teagan is the voice of idealism among the bannorn, but there are other sources about other nobles choosing to fight because they wanted to take advantage of the power vacuum. From the codex entries, in-game dialogue and the gossipers before the Landsmeet. 

 

Teagan's opinion is shared by others. Like that one noble who always supports the Wardens at the Landsmeet, but Teagan was the one who voiced it and gave the nobles who wanted to take advantage of the power vacuum a legitimate reason (in their minds) to oppose Loghain, and by default, their queen Anora. 

 

Teagan's comments, while shared by others, helped incite the rebellion. 



#67
dragonflight288

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Well, I do, but mainly because these two things don't bother me. The former's politics and the latter's flattering.

 

Okay, I stand corrected.

 

Most don't, and I suppose having the crows hired is flattering. 



#68
LOLandStuff

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And the reaction would be: "We don't want no woman fighting darkspawn. Send them back to the kitchen."

#69
leaguer of one

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He knew Loghain retreated. He made it out, and even believes it himself, that the reasons for the retreat were self-serving and a fortuitous power grab. 

 

And yes, Loghain was doomed no matter what would have happened because he needed Wardens and Loghain supporters don't hand wave that away. We defend his actions at Ostagar because given his experience with the wardens and orlesians in the past, and the historical precedent of both being highly suspicious (with Orlais being confirmed to be a threat, just not the one he saw. Celene wanted to achieve through marriage and diplomacy what Mehren failed to do with force,) and we don't fault him for his decision at Ostagar because he was working with what he had. 

 

He wouldn't know a Warden is needed to kill an archdemon. The Wardens are remarkably tight-lipped about that. Not even Alistar, who was a warden six months before we were knew the secret. 

 

He wouldn't know it was a blight. There was no sign of an archdemon and the wardens weren't saying why they thought it was a blight beyond that it was their opinion and they felt it. It's not like Duncan could go to Cailan and Loghain and say "I'm having dreams about the archdemon. There's a blight," would be taken seriously. Kind of like Shepard in ME. "What are we going to tell them? I had a bad dream?" Even Cailan doubted it was a blight. 

 

History has shown the danger of allowing Orlais to help with blights. They went to Nevarra during the third blight ostensibly to help, and never left. We even hear the soldiers around Ostagar talking about it. 

 

The beacon, according to the devs was an hour late. And as Alistair says after defeating the Ogre, we surely missed the signal. The plan had fallen apart well before the beacon was lit, and it was no longer Loghain sweeping in and flanking the darkspawn while Cailan and the Wardens held strong.

 

Even Wynne admits to abandoning the King in party banter with Loghain when she tries calling him out on it, although she tries to justify it by saying she had no army, and Loghain responds that he had no magic to help break the darkspawn ranks. And this is proven in the mage origin where Duncan tells the Warden that only seven mages were sent to Ostagar, and Gregoire opposed sending more. 

 

Loghain's defenders don't defend him selling elves into slavery, poisoning Eamon or hiring the crows, but we also don't unfairly assign him blame for every little thing that happens because he's the main antagonist. Nor do we hate Teagon. We feel Teagon's idealism got in the way of the real threat of the darkspawn and helped incite the civil war because he misconstrued Loghain's motivations for the retreat. 

1. Nothing in the lore says the beacon was late. That is just form a perspective of one of his supporters.

 

2. And him being in fear of the orlisian causing his action is the biggest problem of all. He needs to see that the darkspawn are the bigger problem. I know his back ground but he's acting like a headless chicken in front of a deadlier enemy. In fact that was what the entire nightmare section of dai all about. Fear driving people to need less rage, actions and self destruction instead of looking around themselves and seeing the real issues. The fact Loghain could not do that makes him a bigger fool. It matter not if the wardens are tight lipped about the darkspawn. They are the experts at killing them and the darkspawn destroy things by just being. Why let your experts of killing your enemy die off?



#70
LOLandStuff

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I think DG confirmed it the wardens were late with the beacon.

And those darkspawn you're fighting delayed you. It's not like they dropped dead as you made your way upstairs.



#71
leaguer of one

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I think DG confirmed it the wardens were late with the beacon.

And those darkspawn you're fighting delayed you. It's not like they dropped dead as you made your way upstairs.

Lore source please.



#72
TEWR

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1. Nothing in the lore says the beacon was late. That is just form a perspective of one of his supporters

 

Except for Alistair saying "We've surely missed the signal" and wanting to light it right away without even looking at the field of battle to see if the Darkspawn were fully committed as the plan called for.

 

they were not. In fact, they'd even breached Ostagar itself. Well, some anyway, as you see some soldiers on the bridge fighting Darkspawn once the beacon's lit.

 

When Duncan told us what to do, he said we had less then an hour to make it to the top of the tower.

 

 

 

And those darkspawn you're fighting delayed you. It's not like they dropped dead as you made your way upstairs.

 

The power of the toolset disagrees :P

 

But yes, jokes aside, the fighting delayed us.



#73
Eliastion

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And the reaction would be: "We don't want no woman fighting darkspawn. Send them back to the kitchen."

Well, jokes aside, that would be a position to be considered. A male captive ends up dead or, in worst-case scenario, as a ghoul. A female captive is potentially a serious threat. At the very least you don't want any women outside of your main forces (in your main force you need every soldier you can get AND you can try and take precautions where your soldiers commit suicide/kill each other if the battle is lost and they can't retreat (I don't think anybody wants to be taken alive by the darkspawn, regardless of gender). Smaller independent groups are a different matter - they can be ambushed and actually taken captive before they can do anything.

Though I'd say the greatest problem are non-combatants. It might seem barbaric, but killing off every single woman that can't or won't allow to be evacuated when the darkspawn draw near... it might be necessary. And, considering what happens if they get captured - possibly merciful too...



#74
leaguer of one

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Well. Truthfully, that would be a position to be considered. A male captive ends up dead or, in worst-case scenario, as a ghoul. A female captive is potentially a serious threat. At the very least you don't want any women outside of your main forces (in your main force you need every soldier you can get AND you can try and take precautions where your soldiers commit suicide/kill each other if the battle is lost and they can't retreat (I don't think anybody wants to be taken alive by the darkspawn, regardless of gender). Smaller independent groups are a different matter - they can be ambushed and actually taken captive before they can do anything.

Though I'd say the greatest problem are non-combatants. It might seem barbaric, but killing off every single woman that can't or won't allow to be evacuated when the darkspawn draw near... it might be necessary. And, considering what happens if they get captured - possibly merciful too...

Better yet, just give all the woman knives to off themselves if worse comes to worse. Tell the women enough to see death is a blessing if caught by darkspawn.  

My female elf warden always have a knife hidden on her...just in case. :unsure:



#75
Monica21

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2. And him being in fear of the orlisian causing his action is the biggest problem of all. He needs to see that the darkspawn are the bigger problem. I know his back ground but he's acting like a headless chicken in front of a deadlier enemy. In fact that was what the entire nightmare section of dai all about. Fear driving people to need less rage, actions and self destruction instead of looking around themselves and seeing the real issues. The fact Loghain could not do that makes him a bigger fool. It matter not if the wardens are tight lipped about the darkspawn. They are the experts at killing them and the darkspawn destroy things by just being. Why let your experts of killing your enemy die off?

 

Okay, let's rewrite Ostagar here as a thought exercise. Let's say that Loghain, Cailan, Alistair, and your Warden all know it's a true Blight and they know why. We'll assume that non-Wardens really don't like how the Wardens know it's a Blight, but they believe it.

 

The Orlesians were driven out of Ferelden 30 years ago, after an 80-year occupation. During that occupation they did things like raise taxes to the point that your common farmers (like the Mac Tirs) couldn't afford to pay them for the specific purpose of driving them off the land and giving that land to Orlesian nobles.

 

During the Third Blight the Orlesians entered Nevarra to "help" defeat the Blight and didn't leave. You have 4 legions of Chevaliers camped on the Ferelden border, along with Orlesian Wardens.

 

And we'll assume that since we're young and green that we haven't played through RtO yet and don't know about Cailan's plan to marry Celene. Knowing just those things about the Blight and the Orlesian occupation, do you let both the Chevaliers into Ferelden along with the Orlesian Wardens? Bigger question, do you trust the Chevaliers to leave when the Blight is over?


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