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Asian characters in Dragon Age


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#1
Aov

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So before I start what is going to be a controversial topic, let me just say that I have been a Bioware fan for years. My first game (and probably the one I have the most nostalgia for) was Neverwinter Nights. I played the expansion packs Shadows and Hordes, played Knights of the Old Republic (which seemed in my view to be Neverwinter in disguise), and am now playing Dragon Age, which is my favorite franchise to date.

 

I love fantasy (moreso than sci-fi, and that's the only reason why I haven't yet played Mass Effect). I love Bioware because they do a special brand of fantasy. Where other developers will create a world for the moment you're playing in it, Bioware will create a multi-century world history full of culture and politics and war. Where other developers will create race factions for the sake of competition, Bioware will create an entire socio-economic web of privilege and oppression. Where other developers will make an entertaining video game, Bioware will make an complex, thought-provoking experience that just happens to be a video game. As anyone on this forum can probably attest to, Bioware is definitely something special.

 

What I want to address is the representation of Asian identity in Dragon Age Inquisition. It worries me that out of all the possible party members and friends of the Inquisition, I don't see many Asian faces or Asian names. I don't see any of the main followers as Asian. I don't see any of the enemies as Asian.

 

The only person who might possibly be Asian is the Inquisitor, and that would be an aesthetic choice at character creation. I notice that a couple of the default heads have Asian features, which is certainly an awesome thing.

 

Now, since I'm from the United States, I suppose Asian identity to me is a lot different than Asian identity in the world as a whole. I'm not going to pretend that I know what Asian means in other countries, because I don't. So I'm speaking with my experience living in the United States, a very diverse nation when it comes to race, and perhaps because of that, a very troubled nation when it comes to race.

 

To Bioware's credit, Dragon Age has been more welcoming to people of color than any other major fantasy franchise that I can think of. In Dragon Age Inquisition, not only are there two strong people of color as party mates - I'm talking about Dorian and Vivienne - but there is also a strong person of color as a council member - and by that I mean Josephine.

 

What distinguishes Dragon Age Inquisition from its two predecessor games is that for the first time, even the common folk walking around the game are people of color. The NPCs in a town and the random enemy spawns include people of color. This is a huge and groundbreaking accomplishment. Because people of color are not only the "unique" ones in your party but also the "normal" ones you encounter.

 

Here's where it starts to get complicated - I am going to dare to call Dorian and Vivienne black characters, and Josephine a Latina character, although I know this is far from an accurate statement. Nevertheless, it is the closest I can describe the difference between a "black" person of color and a "Latino/a" person of color and an "Asian" person of color.

 

What I fail to see in Dragon Age are specifically "Asian" people of color.

 

Granted, what Bioware does have in their library is the Jade Empire release, a role-playing game set in a Chinese-inspired world. But I feel that Jade Empire does not address the issue I'm trying to discuss. For a lot of black, Latino, and Asian people, oftentimes there is a lack of representation in a game like Dragon Age, a game that is quite obviously situated in a European-based fantasy realm. It is no great stretch of the imagination to find French influences in the Empire of Orlais, or English influences in the Kingdom of Ferelden. If the only place that an Asian person can be a party mate or a council member or an NPC is in Jade Empire, a game in which almost all the characters are Asian, then I think we have a problem on our hands.

 

I can say for certainty that there is a current competitor on the market who released a sci-fi MMO with "Asian" people of color - notably a robot from India and a faction leader from Japan. So it is indeed possible to include Asians in a sci-fi fantasy setting. Granted, this certain competitor is not nearly the storyteller and world-builder that Bioware is, but that's why I think Bioware can do it, too, and do it better.

 

It may be argued that this is a never-ending spiral of who belongs and who doesn't. If we include Asian people, then what about people from the Middle East? Don't they want to be part of the game too? What about indigenous people? What about people with disabilities? What about elderly people? What about people with bigger body types? We can't possibly include everyone -  all games have a start and end point, and invariably someone is bound to be left out. There's not enough time or money or space to create a game that embraces everyone. It's unrealistic.

 

True, there may not be enough time or money or space. But we are dealing with fantasy, storytelling, and art - all of which are not the most practical things in the world, and definitely not realistic, but we enjoy them anyway. What is it that resonates so strongly in our hearts, that makes us turn to games and books and other seemingly frivolous things to make sense of our world, or to imagine a better one?

 

Dragons exist in almost every world culture - perhaps thanks to a universal storytelling tradition, or perhaps thanks to dinosaurs. What I'm wondering is this - might there ever be an Asian dragon post-Inquisition?


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#2
Guest_EmmyDupre_*

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I think you have a very good  point.  Asian culture,and characters of all colors, should be represented. We are going north in the future. Hopefully we will see several.  It would make things more diverse and interesting. I especially want to see Asian armor and an Asian merchant.  :)



#3
LonewandererD

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First they need a reason to actually have Asian cultures in the game beyond "hey, why not" and then be able to include in such a way that doesn't make it feel like they're just clumping them in there for the heck of it. Also, they are still fleshing out their current cultures like Tevinter and the Qunari and haven't really touched on the Anderfels, Rivain or Nevarra so an Asian culture would be pretty far off if its coming at all.

 

-D-.


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#4
actionhero112

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What I think is important is to create a variety of characters in terms of appearance to better immerse their audience. Do I think the Asian culture has to be represented? No, societies in thedas have their own culture, we don't need phoned in gi's and kimonos. But I do think we need characters that better reflect the races of people that play these games at least in appearance. That's not hard to do.

 

Also Jade Empire 2 would be appreciated that game was legit.  



#5
Hanako Ikezawa

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I would love if they added a race of humans that are representative of Asians, though with how Thedas is set up they will most likely have to have them be a people from another continent who have discovered Thedas.


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#6
Regan_Cousland

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The OP implicitly raises another interesting, and potentially controversial, question (which I shall attempt to answer at my own risk, lol):

Is it BioWare's responsibility to give people of every colour, creed and ethnicity in our world a role in Dragon Age?

 

As creators, aren't they entitled to say, "Asian-inspired cultures don't exist, and Asian-looking people are extremely rare in Thedas," without justifying themselves?

 

I, like any fair-minded fan, wouldn't object to the existence of an Asian-inspired Theodosian culture (it sounds quite exciting!) ... but I do object to artists and developers having to alter their own, personal creations to pander to political correctness.

So should BioWare include more Asian-looking people in Dragon Age because they want to? I say, "Hell yes! Bring on the Chinese Fireball dragon."

Should they do it because people might call them racist if they don't? I say, "No way! Thedas is your baby. Treat it as you will."

Integrity, in today's heavily censured society, is every bit as important social inclusivity.

(P.S. I've never used the word "inclusivity" before. I'm very proud of myself right now.)


 


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#7
Monoservo

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i like to see Asian northerners who lives were it is cold you know white hair long beards


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#8
DarkAmaranth1966

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Okay so they give us Asian NPCs, then should not there also be Pakistani, Native American, African, Indian, Hatian, Hispanic, Italian....... and the list goes on. Let the devs create the characters they see in their mind's eye. It's a fantasy world, there are no Orlesians, Fereldens, Qunari, Rivani, Teventerites, Nevarrans, Marchers or any other DA race in the real world, why does there need to be any of any earthly race in that world?


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#9
Regan_Cousland

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i like to see Asian northerners who lives were it is cold you know white hair long beards

 

That ... is actually quite a cool and novel idea.

I'm not sure about the white hair and beards. The Qunari already have white hair covered.

But an Asian-inspired race that lives in Nordic climes could be neat. 

How much is known of the native tribes of the Anderfels? Perhaps they could be Asian-looking.


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#10
Sarielle

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Okay so they give us Asian NPCs, then should not there also be Pakistani, Native American, African, Indian, Hatian, Hispanic, Italian....... and the list goes on. Let the devs create the characters they see in their mind's eye. It's a fantasy world, there are no Orlesians, Fereldens, Qunari, Rivani, Teventerites, Nevarrans, Marchers or any other DA race in the real world, why does there need to be any of any earthly race in that world?

 

Except there are already black, white, latin and middle eastern-looking characters in the game.

 

There are a few Asian NPCs floating around already. Has DA really touched on where white and black people are originally from (ethnically) in-universe? I don't recall if so, and I see no reason there needs to be a big explanation surrounding why there's an Asian guy in my party or whatever.


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#11
KaiserShep

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I can't lie. I'd totally dig a DAverse equivalent of the Mongols.


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#12
MerchantGOL

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Untill bio ware tells me other wise, Jade empire took place on the other side of the globe


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#13
tmp7704

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What I want to address is the representation of Asian identity in Dragon Age Inquisition. It worries me that out of all the possible party members and friends of the Inquisition, I don't see many Asian faces or Asian names. I don't see any of the main followers as Asian. I don't see any of the enemies as Asian.

There was a thread on this topic a few months ago (either shortly before the game launch or shortly after, I can't remember) that got pretty large, and had some of the devs (including Mr.Gaider) chime in, either directly there or on their blog.

Those dev contributions boiled down to Thedas as it's currently written down not having any defined place populated with such characters. The possibility that this could change at some point down the road wasn't exactly ruled out, but it also didn't sound like it's something that's actively planned at the moment.

#14
MerchantGOL

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Except there are already black, white, latin and middle eastern-looking characters in the game.

 

There are a few Asian NPCs floating around already. Has DA really touched on where white and black people are originally from (ethnically) in-universe? I don't recall if so, and I see no reason there needs to be a big explanation surrounding why there's an Asian guy in my party or whatever.

As a black gamer i'm curious as to where all the black people were hiding int he first 2 dragon age games, personaly.


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#15
LonewandererD

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Anders is apparently from the Anderfels, and so is Mistress Woolesy. From what he have learn of their geography and place names the Anderfels would be an arid country with German influences though not Germanic itself.

 

DA has touched on the existence of "black" people  in that they don't come from any one place. The people of Rivain run the gambit of being just a bit tanned to very dark of skin and there are arid areas on the interior of Thedas (e.g. the Western Approach) where people of darker skin tone could very easily reside though not actually have to identify as being "black".

 

Back on point, I still don't think we should have Asianic cultures just for the sake of having Asianic cultures; I don't want a new race/culture/people that just happens to be Japanese. However, if they can find a way to include a people that are influenced by Asian culture but are immediately labelled as being Asian and are truly unique then i'm all for that.

 

-D-



#16
KaiserShep

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As a black gamer i'm curious as to where all the black people were hiding int he first 2 dragon age games, personaly.

 

I'm pretty sure there were some dark-skinned people in Origins, like the chanter in Lothering.



#17
tmp7704

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As a black gamer i'm curious as to where all the black people were hiding int he first 2 dragon age games, personaly.

There was a number of (mostly generic) NPCs who were given dark skin in the first two games. I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few of them got overlooked, though, because of the texture/engine induced limitations -- a good example of this would be Isabela in DAO; she had the darkest skin tone available in the game, and yet a number of people would swear up and down she's a white redhead and complaining how she got "changed" for DA2.

#18
MerchantGOL

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I'm pretty sure there were some dark-skinned people in Origins, like the chanter in Lothering.

 

 

There was a number of (mostly generic) NPCs who were given dark skin in the first two games. I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few of them got overlooked, though, because of the texture/engine induced limitations -- a good example of this would be Isabela in DAO; she had the darkest skin tone available in the game, and yet a number of people would swear up and down she's a white redhead and complaining how she got "changed" for DA2.

 

None of them looked "Black to me" tanned skin but not black, hell i tried making a brother in the character creator and they never came out right



#19
Andraste_Reborn

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None of them looked "Black to me" tanned skin but not black, hell i tried making a brother in the character creator and they never came out right

 

Yeah, the old engine was terrible at showing darker skin tones. The Rivani characters were always intended to be various shades of black, but the first two games did a lousy job of conveying this most of the time. (Hooray for Frostbite!)



#20
tmp7704

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None of them looked "Black to me" tanned skin but not black, hell i tried making a brother in the character creator and they never came out right

That's unfortunately the extent of engine/artist capabilities in DAO/DA2. These "tanned" characters were intended to be black.

#21
Sarielle

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None of them looked "Black to me" tanned skin but not black, hell i tried making a brother in the character creator and they never came out right

 

Probably because the unmodded dark skintones were all splotchy and fugly.

 

Anders is apparently from the Anderfels, and so is Mistress Woolesy. From what he have learn of their geography and place names the Anderfels would be an arid country with German influences though not Germanic itself.

 

DA has touched on the existence of "black" people  in that they don't come from any one place. The people of Rivain run the gambit of being just a bit tanned to very dark of skin and there are arid areas on the interior of Thedas (e.g. the Western Approach) where people of darker skin tone could very easily reside though not actually have to identify as being "black".

 

Interesting :)



#22
stop_him

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As an Asian, I personally don't have any issues with non-representation. Growing up, I certainly noticed a lack of people who looked like me on TV, but I guess I've just become accustomed to seeing "round eyes" all the time. :rolleyes:  I'm not the emperor of Asians though, and don't speak for everyone, so I suspect others may feel differently on the subject, and I respect whatever they may think.



#23
MerchantGOL

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That's unfortunately the extent of engine/artist capabilities in DAO/DA2. These "tanned" characters were intended to be black.

No i think they were just supposed to be tan, i don't think Isabella is supposed to be black at all.



#24
Sarielle

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As an Asian, I personally don't have any issues with non-representation. Growing up, I certainly noticed a lack of people who looked like me on TV, but I guess I've just become accustomed to seeing "round eyes" all the time. :rolleyes:  I'm not the emperor of Asians though, and don't speak for everyone, so I suspect others may feel differently on the subject, and I respect whatever they may think.

 

Teh husband doesn't really comment about lack of representation. He does complain about all Asian guys, when included, either being martial arts masters or complete zeta males, lol. (EDIT: Walking Dead actually got praise on this point, I recall. :P )

 

But again, there are already Asian-looking NPCs without an explanation lore-wise. I don't see the harm in continuing to include them and holding off on their explaining their ethnic origin until it makes sense to introduce it/is fleshed out.



#25
Grieving Natashina

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The lore is still evolving, and we haven't met the human representatives of every single region of Thedas.  There is a lot left purposefully vague in the lore that the writers could expand later.  For example, one of the regions that hasn't been touched upon very much is Par Vollen.  We still don't know what the humans in Par Vollen look like, and not a lot is known about the region aside from warfare.

 

 Remember, Par Vollen had it's own unique culture and people before the Qunari showed up.  The codex talks about half-buried pyramids deep in the jungle.  Who's to say that the writers would make such people look like the Mayans or the Egyptians?   It's fantasy, so the writers wouldn't have to adhere to the cultures in our world perfectly.  Those humans of Par Vollen still exist, and nothing says that they were wiped out.  Well, you can certainly make a case for their culture, but the codex seems to indicate that the native humans are alive, just a part of the Qun.  

 

Just to be clear, the humans of Par Vollen was the quickest example that came to my mind of a people in Thedas that little is known about.  I'm not saying that would be the best/right/correct/whatever way to go.

 

I can accept the creator's reasons for not including some cultures/races, but I do want them to keep expanding the lore.  Since there is places and stories that have yet to really evolve, there is more than enough room for Asian folks to have a home country/region in Thedas.


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