270 réponses à ce sujet

[procutemeister]

I think that if they do include "Asian" characters in DA, they should create a new culture that is inspired by Asian cultures rather than represent them and make them look just like those in real life. Even if most of the countries we've seen in Thedas are mostly European-inspired, they're not exclusively "European". They have influences from other cultures as well.

 

That said, having characters that look Asian in the game would be a really cool addition and would make the DA world at least look more interesting, if nothing else.

[Draining Dragon]

I suppose I just don't see why not having people of your own ethnicity in a game is a problem. I certainly wouldn't bat an eye if the next two dozen games I play only had characters physically different from my own template, as long as I could make good-looking characters at all.

I agree. I don't see why people feel the need for their character to be the same ethnicity. I certainly didn't mind being restricted to Asian-looking characters in Jade Empire, because it fit the setting. In fact, only one white guy appears in Jade Empire, and he's a total caricature. And I found it hilarious.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I think it's a lot easier to not care if characters are like you if there are already plenty of characters in video games and the broader media that match your race/gender/sexuality etc.

 

I value the ability to play as a female protagonist in video games very highly. On the other hand, I couldn't care less about the ability to play a character that's straight or white. Why would I, when an overwhelming majority of video game protagonists are both of those things? (I also get excited by the existence of mentally ill characters who are something other than horrible clichés. Wish games had more of those.)

[AWTEW]

Actually,  the term Asian is rather problematic, in, and off itself. Media has taught us to think of Asian as Chinese/Japanese, but asia is much more culturally diverse than that.

 

But meh, I  don't see marketing approving of it anytime soon.

[Aov]

Thanks to this thread, I am becoming more and more aware of the complexities of Asian. It does usually point to China and Japan only, when that is hardly the scope of people whom it should cover.

 

Here's another thing - I don't need a character in a story to look exactly like I do in order to appreciate the story. But other people might.

 

I'm not saying every other person in the world feels that way. I'm not saying every Asian person. I'm not saying every black person. Or every Latino/a person. Or every white person. Or every (insert race that I'm too ignorant/insensitive to include in this sentence) person.

 

But I do know some Asians who feel that way. Some black people who feel that way. Some Latino and white people who feel that way. Maybe a handful. Or a roomful. Or more.

 

Let me give an example. Cosplay has become a phenomenon at local gaming conventions - and yes, I understand it's a global phenomenon, but again, I can't speak to that, because I don't live in other countries. I'm talking from my perspective as someone who lives the United States.

 

What I notice in North American gaming conventions is that cosplayers tend to dress up as their favorite characters from their favorite franchises. Now, certainly not every cosplayer dresses up for the same reasons. Some people may choose a costume because they only like the character design, and they've never even played the game the character comes from. Or maybe they hate the character and want to dress up like them as a joke.

 

The majority of the time, however, I think cosplayers dress up as the characters they love. Because they have some sort of connection to the character.

 

Now anime is a different beast altogether - because anime comes primarily from a Japanese (and Korean) motion picture industry outside of the United States. Even though, yes, I realize Tezuka, the "father" of anime was inspired by what he saw in Walt Disney's Snow White. But Walt Disney was inspired by the Brothers Grimm, and so on and so forth - we all gain inspiration from what came before us.

 

But in the confines of a North American gaming convention, here's what I tend to notice - Dragon Age Inquisition cosplayers, like cosplayers of any other video game, have a limited amount of characters to choose from. The Dragon Age roster is limited, as all rosters are, due to time and money and space. That's reasonable. 

 

Here's where it becomes problematic - If you're African-American and you happen to be the kind of African-American with a darker skin tone (I realize there are many African-American skin tones) - anyway, you really have one option for Dragon Age Inquisition cosplay. You can dress up as Vivienne. (Or you can dress as the Inquisitor, but literally anyone can dress as the Inquisitor because the Inquisitor has such racial flexibility, so I'm not counting the Inquisitor.) 

 

Now, what if for some odd reason, you don't happen to like Vivienne? Maybe her style of dress isn't for you, or maybe her views on mage-templar politics aren't for you. Well, okay, now what? You could dress up as Dorian - even if he is Indo-European, he's at least close, because he has a darker skin tone. Or Josephine - she's also close. Or you can dress as a Qunari. But as far as human characters, you have no other choices.

 

In a similar vein, there are no human characters in Dragon Age Inquisition for an Asian person (light-skinned Chinese, for example) to cosplay.

 

As a white cosplayer, there are quite a few possibilities: Morrigan, Cassandra, Cole, Blackwall, Sera, Varric, Cullen, Iron Bull, Leliana, Solas, and that's just counting the companions and the inner circle. If I don't happen to like Morrigan, I have the flexibility of being able to choose Cassandra instead. Or Sera. Or Solas.

 

I mean, obviously, Sera is an elf, just like Solas is an elf, so they're not exactly "white humans." But they have enough white facial features that really, all someone would have to do is paste on some pointy ears (or in Solas' case, shave off all kinds of hair) in order to look the part. Similar case with Iron Bull. Yeah, he has an abnormally pasty complexion, and he has horns. But again, the facial features.

 

Now, of course, there's always the argument that you can cosplay as whomever you want to. Be a black Morrigan. Be an Asian Cullen.

 

Here's the problem - Cosplay is a hobby built around accuracy. Oftentimes, it seems the thrill for cosplayers is to get the hair "exactly right" or to research a hoop skirt so that Morrigan's skirt falls "just so."  Accuracy is certainly not the most important thing, and for some cosplayers, they simply could care less about accuracy.

 

But the amount of insensitive remarks to cosplayers of color who portray traditionally "white" characters is just unbelieveable -

 

"You're an amazing crafter, and I love your necklace! But Morrigan's not supposed to be black." 

 

Or even "Are you a character from Dynasty Warriors? Oh, you're the Asian version of Cullen? Oh, I'm sorry. You didn't really look like Cullen."

 

And of course, not every Dragon Age fan wants to cosplay in the first place. Not everyone needs to express their fandom through cosplay, and I'm not saying they should. I'm just using cosplay as an example.

 

If one is inclined to make the argument that "it doesn't bother me personally as an Asian/black/Latino/white person to have or not have characters look like me so why is representation even an issue?"  - please take a moment and consider that it's not just one individual's opinions we're talking about. Dragon Age, as it exists right now, is probably fine for you personally.

 

But Dragon Age as it exists right now alienates even just one other person in the world, and I've met them at a convention, and I've met them here in this forum thread. That one other person's opinion is as valuable as your opinion. If Dragon Age becomes more welcoming and writes more people of color into its universe, it may not impact your freedom, because you're already happy with the game. But it will impact someone else's freedom quite a bit.

[ThreeF]

Or you can dress as the Inquisitor, but literally anyone can dress as the Inquisitor because the Inquisitor has such racial flexibility, so I'm not counting the Inquisitor.

Not about what you were saying, but for all the lore talk you can be an Asian looking Inquisitor and by that i don't mean just Chinese/Japanese looking, CC is quite flexible in this regard

[Vanth]

It has certainly been successfully argued that games should have more characters of race analogous to that of people with African descent in our own world, and DA:I bought into that with characters like Vivienne. If that argument applies, I don't see how that same argument doesn't apply to people of Asian descent. 

[Angry_Elcor]

I don't really care what races appear in a video game that I play, and I don't mind playing as characters that don't look anything like me. I also don't really see how having different races in a video game could actually be construed as offensive, or somehow inherently making the game worse. That doesn't seem like quality control, that seems like something else, entirely.

[AresKeith]

It have certainly been successfully argued that games should have more characters or race analogous to that of people with African descent in our own world, and DA:I bought into that with characters like Vivienne. If that argument applies, I don't see how that same argument doesn't apply to people of Asian descent. 

 

Those characters existed since DAO

[Vanth]

Those characters existed since DAO

 

Even more reason to catch up by providing representation for asian folk.

[AresKeith]

Even more reason to catch up by providing representation for asian folk.

 

They've also explained that their heritage comes from Rivain 

[Vanth]

They've also explained that their heritage comes from Rivain 

 

Rivain could be said to provide an analogy to South Asians, but not East Asians. 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Rivain could be said to provide an analogy to South Asians, but not East Asians. 

Both of our South Asian characters so far are from Tevinter, not Rivain.

[Vanth]

Both of our South Asian characters so far are from Tevinter, not Rivain.

 

Of whom are you thinking? I was thinking of Isabella, who I thought was from Rivain (but I may be mistaken).

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Of whom are you thinking? I was thinking of Isabella, who I thought was from Rivain (but I may be mistaken).

Dorian and his father. Isabela is black (partially black?) and she is from Rivain like Duncan and Vivienne.

[Vanth]

Really? I think you need to check the colours on your monitor. I never thought of Isabella as of African descent, and I never thought of Dorian as South Asian. In fact, I always thought of Dorian as being rather English. (Though to be fair, I never did Dorian's side quest, so never met his father.)

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Really? I think you need to check the colours on your monitor. I never thought of Isabella as of African descent, and I never thought of Dorian as South Asian. In fact, I always thought of Dorian as being rather English. (Though to be fair, I never did Dorian's side quest, so never met his father.)

Bioware has stated that Isabela is black and that Dorian's appearance is based off of someone of Indian decent.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Really? I think you need to check the colours on your monitor. I never thought of Isabella as of African descent, and I never thought of Dorian as South Asian. In fact, I always thought of Dorian as being rather English. (Though to be fair, I never did Dorian's side quest, so never met his father.)

Using skin tone as the be-all and end-all is a pretty reductive and shortsighted way to discuss ethnicity and discounts the validity of people with multi-ethnic backgrounds.

 

As far as Dorian, it's not up for debate. It's been said multiple times by different developers. http://dragonaging.t...g-im-sorry-guys 

 

Unfortunately the links to what Gaider has said are broken since he decided to delete his Tumblr. Similar things have been said for Isabela, but I don't have any of that saved.

[Fast Jimmy]

Because we've been doing that for forever many centuries, and the demographics of the audience are changing.

More people complaining doesn't mean gamers have become whiny; it means gamers and the society they live in are different than they were back in whatever [your?] day.

So every form of fiction must now be a parallel of real world diversity?

[Draining Dragon]

So every form of fiction must now be a parallel of real world diversity?

Apparently.

[Vanth]

Using skin tone as the be-all and end-all is a pretty reductive and shortsighted way to discuss ethnicity and discounts the validity of people with multi-ethnic backgrounds.

 

As far as Dorian, it's not up for debate. It's been said multiple times by different developers. http://dragonaging.t...g-im-sorry-guys

 

Unfortunately the links to what Gaider has said are broken since he decided to delete his Tumblr. Similar things have been said for Isabela, but I don't have any of that saved.

 

Actually, the link to Gaider's comment does work. He is says that the voice actor is of East Indian descent but has an English accent. That is not quite the same as you are claiming.

 

And if we are not using racial physical characteristics to distinguish someone's race, what are we using. How is Dorian South Asian in character or mannerism?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So every form of fiction must now be a parallel of real world diversity?

No, but there is no harm with people asking for it to be in every form of fiction. 

 

 

Actually, the link to Gaider's comment does work. He is says that the voice actor is of East Indian descent but has an English accent. That is not quite the same as you are claiming.

 

And if we are not using racial physical characteristics to distinguish someone's race, what are we using. How is Dorian South Asian in character or mannerism?

John Epler said that the closest real world analogue for Dorian's ethnicity is Indian. 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Actually, the link to Gaider's comment does work. He is says that the voice actor is of East Indian descent but has an English accent. That is not quite the same as you are claiming.

 

And if we are not using racial physical characteristics to distinguish someone's race, what are we using. How is Dorian South Asian in character or mannerism?

Way to cherry pick and ignore everything else there that's contrary to your position.

[AresKeith]

Way to cherry pick and ignore everything else there that's contrary to your position.

 

She's been doing that in the other thread too 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

She's been doing that in the other thread too 

I've been lurking in there. I should have known better than to engage.