1602 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

I have a question for you all relating to this codex entry from DA:O:

"The keeper says that one day the Dalish will find a home that we can call our own. But why? Why should we tie ourselves to stone constructions like the humans and the dwarves? What is wrong with the life we have now? We owe nothing to anyone, we have no master but ourselves, and we go where the halla and the gods take us. There is nothing more wonderful than sitting on an aravel as it flies through the forest, pulled by our halla. We are truly free, for the first time in our people's history. Why should we change this?"

--From the journal of Taniel, clan hunter.

From this codex entry, it can be garnered that there are Dalish elves out there who do not desire sedentism due to a fear of the loss of their society's egalitarianism and nomadic lifestyle. So, what do those of you who roleplay Dalish elves think regarding whether or not the elves should strive to be more like their ancient ancestors in settling down and becoming sedentary? Do any of you agree with the clan hunter above - that the Dalish should embrace their nomadic lifestyle in order to guarantee preservation of their freedom and equality?

I would like to see the Dalish get their own homeland, although it would be prudent to have their haven far away from the Chantry and Andrastian society.

By settling down somewhere safe, the People can finally build a future for themselves, instead of simply trying to survive day to day in an overtly hostile enviornment of Andrastian kingdoms as nomadic wanderers.

[Elfyoth]

 

I have a question for you all relating to this codex entry from DA:O:

 

"The keeper says that one day the Dalish will find a home that we can call our own. But why? Why should we tie ourselves to stone constructions like the humans and the dwarves? What is wrong with the life we have now? We owe nothing to anyone, we have no master but ourselves, and we go where the halla and the gods take us. There is nothing more wonderful than sitting on an aravel as it flies through the forest, pulled by our halla. We are truly free, for the first time in our people's history. Why should we change this?"

 

--From the journal of Taniel, clan hunter.

 

From this codex entry, it can be garnered that there are Dalish elves out there who do not desire sedentism due to a fear of the loss of their society's egalitarianism and nomadic lifestyle. So, what do those of you who roleplay Dalish elves think regarding whether or not the elves should strive to be more like their ancient ancestors in settling down and becoming sedentary? Do any of you agree with the clan hunter above - that the Dalish should embrace their nomadic lifestyle in order to guarantee preservation of their freedom and equality?

 

The Dalish remaind me of the jewish pepole that had the Gehula, the Geuhla started after Rome destroyed the ancient jewish kingdom and the rebellion of Bar Kohvah, and the jews ran into other places starting the Gehulah, the Geuhla is techniclly what the Keepers say, Rabbis said "When the time comes, all jews will be united in their homeland, and the mashieh(A person sent by god smthing like Jesus) Will come and we will have a home again" Now, they had the chance to rebuild their country, but who the heck wanna go and start a country? Its much more easier to say "When the time will come" Then actually doing somthing, thats where my ancestors could do somthing and they didint, and when we did somthing we  were and still are at war. Thats why some jews say the Gehulah have not arrived yet. That the time have not come yet. Sorry got to far there... Anyway that hunter is feeling good with his life, they all have the dream of having a home, like the jews of the medival ages. But its much easier to say "When the time will come" And I am sure some of them asked their Rabbies "Why to return at all? We have gold a good house warm clothes and food, why should we do somthing?" And I am sure there were question at the start of the Zionism "Why we need to do somthing? Why don't we stay in Eroupe? Where its good, culture, music, good food, warm clothes, why would we go to that desert?" Techniclly, the major rise into Israel was when those pepole who stayed in "good ole eroupe" Died, in the Holocast.. Sorry for a big history thread... I went to far with that one to be mad at me, and no I am not going to delete deleted it already once, I did a post, if it is against the rule let the mods have it delted. AND PLEASE DONT START A POLITCALL ARGUMENT OR SMTHING. Cuz that were not my intentions, oh and read from the beginning  

[Eliastion]

I have a question for you all relating to this codex entry from DA:O:
 
"The keeper says that one day the Dalish will find a home that we can call our own. But why? Why should we tie ourselves to stone constructions like the humans and the dwarves? What is wrong with the life we have now? We owe nothing to anyone, we have no master but ourselves, and we go where the halla and the gods take us. There is nothing more wonderful than sitting on an aravel as it flies through the forest, pulled by our halla. We are truly free, for the first time in our people's history. Why should we change this?"
 
--From the journal of Taniel, clan hunter.
 
From this codex entry, it can be garnered that there are Dalish elves out there who do not desire sedentism due to a fear of the loss of their society's egalitarianism and nomadic lifestyle. So, what do those of you who roleplay Dalish elves think regarding whether or not the elves should strive to be more like their ancient ancestors in settling down and becoming sedentary? Do any of you agree with the clan hunter above - that the Dalish should embrace their nomadic lifestyle in order to guarantee preservation of their freedom and equality?

This hunter's letter points to a serious problem some people tend to ignore. People on both sides, actually. As well as Solas
People think about Dalish as "what remained of ancient elves or the Dales at least" and consider their culture to be a preservation of ancient traditions. And while I don't necessarily blame people who think that, since the Dalish speak a lot about ancient traditions, the thing is that they are not runaways taking with them what they could. They had 700 years now (counting from the fall of Dales) and they built a completely different culture. They have their traditions, their beliefs, their way of life. They have many things the elves of the Dales didn't have - and lack many things they did. What some people - even (or perhaps especially) the hard-line elf-supporters tend to overlook is the fact that creation of an elven nation and bringing all the Dalish there so that they may settle means destraction of a whole hundreds years old culture. Dalish may try to convince you that they're the survivors looking for new home, but you shouldn't believe them. They're so much more, at least some of them.
 
One additional thing about this misconception is that I don't believe in two other truths: that all the elves were slaves of Tevinter (with no runaway Dalish-like nomads nor distant settlements that avoided the fate of Arlathan if they ever were a part of it) AND that all the elves after Andraste either turned back to Tevinter or became Dalish, in the sense of going to Dales to worship their gods. They just got freed and they just took part in religeous rebellion led by Andraste, while hardly remembering anything out of their old ways - do we really believe they just left and went to some distant land rather than remain in the lands where they lived, enjoying their freedom and cultivating their new religion? I'm pretty sure city elves existed long before the fall of the Dales. Though they likely were in much better position before they got stuffed into Alienages on wave of anti-elf sentiment that followed the war.
 
Ok, but I'm going off-topic. Back to the journal, I don't know where the equality factors into this hunter's letter, it's more of an idea of real freedom of not being tied to any place. Think about it - an average Dalish wanders in his life at the very least from one end of Ferelden to the other while average human spends his whole life in one village, working the same plot of land year after year until he drops dead. I can understand the sentiment of sticking to the nomadiic life that doesn't really seem all that bad for the Dalish, they don't really have it worse than the average for humans, especially humans in nations like Orlais... I think given the chance many of them would settle. But expecting them all to do this is... pretty naive. They have their own way of life, their own culture and while dreams of homeland are part of said culture, actually settling down... not really

[BronzTrooper]

 

I have a question for you all relating to this codex entry from DA:O:

 

"The keeper says that one day the Dalish will find a home that we can call our own. But why? Why should we tie ourselves to stone constructions like the humans and the dwarves? What is wrong with the life we have now? We owe nothing to anyone, we have no master but ourselves, and we go where the halla and the gods take us. There is nothing more wonderful than sitting on an aravel as it flies through the forest, pulled by our halla. We are truly free, for the first time in our people's history. Why should we change this?"

 

--From the journal of Taniel, clan hunter.

 

From this codex entry, it can be garnered that there are Dalish elves out there who do not desire sedentism due to a fear of the loss of their society's egalitarianism and nomadic lifestyle. So, what do those of you who roleplay Dalish elves think regarding whether or not the elves should strive to be more like their ancient ancestors in settling down and becoming sedentary? Do any of you agree with the clan hunter above - that the Dalish should embrace their nomadic lifestyle in order to guarantee preservation of their freedom and equality?

 

 

I see where the hunter is coming from, but the fact of the matter is that the Dalish don't have the amount of freedom he thinks.  They can't settle down anywhere for very long due to the fact that they would likely be considered squatters by humans, thus resulting in them being driven away.  There's also the fact that the Templars are a very real threat to any clan (for obvious reasons) and that the vast majority of the human population views the Dalish as being savages, little better than Tal-Vashoth.

 

Yes, the Dalish should embrace their nomadic ways as part of their culture, but they shouldn't forget the reasons they became nomads in the first place.

[sjsharp2011]

I like Elves was going to be an elf on my next Inquisition run was thinking of making her a very pro elf elf as well.

[Drasanil]

It makes you wonder why the Dalish haven't ventured even farther than their traditional nomadic routes. There may be a continent out there completely undiscovered or even an island. It has to be better than having the Maker shoved in your face.

 

IIRC, Solas, mentions that some dalish clans have disappeared into the deep wilds entirely, essentially abandoning thedas when the elfquisitor asks him about other clans. 

[Eliastion]

IIRC, Solas, mentions that some dalish clans have disappeared into the deep wilds entirely, essentially abandoning thedas when the elfquisitor asks him about other clans. 

He could mean absolute reclusiveness... However, while it's unlikely that they got to sailing, really, there seems to be much to explore behind the western border of the map. Unfortunately those lands get "so you say something is there?" treatment. To the south we at least know that there are barbarian lands of the Chasind (and then frozen wastes if one would like to give any value to Chasind stories) but the West? Parts are post-Blight wastelands but there are some forests along the border of the map, so it's not like everything's destroyed - so what's behind them?

[Roamingmachine]

 

I have a question for you all relating to this codex entry from DA:O:

 

"The keeper says that one day the Dalish will find a home that we can call our own. But why? Why should we tie ourselves to stone constructions like the humans and the dwarves? What is wrong with the life we have now? We owe nothing to anyone, we have no master but ourselves, and we go where the halla and the gods take us. There is nothing more wonderful than sitting on an aravel as it flies through the forest, pulled by our halla. We are truly free, for the first time in our people's history. Why should we change this?"

 

--From the journal of Taniel, clan hunter.

 

From this codex entry, it can be garnered that there are Dalish elves out there who do not desire sedentism due to a fear of the loss of their society's egalitarianism and nomadic lifestyle. So, what do those of you who roleplay Dalish elves think regarding whether or not the elves should strive to be more like their ancient ancestors in settling down and becoming sedentary? Do any of you agree with the clan hunter above - that the Dalish should embrace their nomadic lifestyle in order to guarantee preservation of their freedom and equality?

 

 

I'm most likely in the minority in saying that the Dalish should remain nomadic. Why exchange free, if hard, life for bondage to a spesific place? I personally find nothing about sedentary life that would offer anything of real value to the Dalish that they do not already have. The fate of the Dales showed that any security provided by a nation is an illusion, providing only a solid target for their enemies.

[Eliastion]

I decided to just put it here, since I recently stumbled upon a codex entry that apparently confirmes nomadic Dalish to predate fall of Dales by a significant margin 
http://dragonage.wik..._Tale_of_Iloren

A tale about "dalish" clan from time of Second Blight, from Anderfels... Aaand there goes all the lore about all Dalish originating from the fallen Dales 

[MoonDrummer]

I decided to just put it here, since I recently stumbled upon a codex entry that apparently confirmes nomadic Dalish to predate fall of Dales by a significant margin 
http://dragonage.wik..._Tale_of_Iloren

A tale about "dalish" clan from time of Second Blight, from Anderfels... Aaand there goes all the lore about all Dalish originating from the fallen Dales 

Sometimes Bioware mess up their timeline, like the guy in the Dalish origin whose dad fought against Ferelden tribes after the fall of the dales.

[Herr Uhl]

And they added an expedition of Qunari that ended up in the Korcari Wilds somehow 1000 years before they appeared in Par Vollen in order to explain how there had been ogres in blights previous to the one in Origins.

[Eliastion]

Sometimes Bioware mess up their timeline, like the guy in the Dalish origin whose dad fought against Ferelden tribes after the fall of the dales.

You're right, they do that (there's also this whole mess with Alkistair and Fiona, though on smaller scale).

Still, since I generally believe that there were nomadic elves and/or some hidden elven enclaves even in height of Tevinter power (seriously, Thedas was much less populated then, hiding away would be much easier than after Dales fell) as well as andrastian "city elves" long before Dales fell (they forgot most of their lore and just regained their freedom fighting side by side with followers of Andraste - and I am to believe that no elves actually converted and/or decided that the nice idea of new elven homeland isn't worth all the trouble? They just got proof that they can actually coexist, even ally, with some humans! Especially those nice proto-andrastian folks)...

 

Frankly, the idea that some kind of nomadic elven culture was out there during 2nd Blight, a culture that could actually serve as a "blueprint" for later Dalish society, fits rather nicely for me

[dragonflight288]

I'm most likely in the minority in saying that the Dalish should remain nomadic. Why exchange free, if hard, life for bondage to a spesific place? I personally find nothing about sedentary life that would offer anything of real value to the Dalish that they do not already have. The fate of the Dales showed that any security provided by a nation is an illusion, providing only a solid target for their enemies.

 

You probably are in a minority. I mean sure, the idea is sound and it's what the Native Americans (and to a certain extent Australian aborigines today) have done for centuries, well the native americans stopped after they were put into the reservations.

 

There are a few reasons to settle a place.

 

1. Their cultures is slowly changing on a clan-to-clan basis. Don't get me wrong, they share a religion and a sense of pride in being elven, but it is also inevitable that distance from one another has them evolve differently. Some clans, like the Lavellan clan is peaceful, considerate and willing to put their necks on the line for humans and other city elves for the greater good. Other clans are little better than raiders and bandits. Take the clans in Rivain and compare them to the ones in Tevinter and you have only the most barebone of similarities in beliefs but a completely different mindset and thus approach to how to deal with humans or dwarves, or anyone not dalish. 

 

2. Their numbers are slowly going down to the point that they have occasionally trade clan members to prevent in-breeding, make sure each clan has enough mages to fulfill their needs, while also dealing with limited resources. 

 

3. Their religion is outlawed and they are hunted for sport by some Orlesian nobles or by overzealous templars wanting to capture or kill their Keepers and Firsts. 

 

I am of the opinion that the elves need a place to settle to build up their numbers, unite as a culture and feel free to create a society of their choosing, and one that's not beholden to the tenets of the Chantry or Andrastian humans who are in the majority racist against elves. 

 

They need to build a position of strength, whether militarily, economically, or more preferably, both, so that even if humans see them as less than human and not worthy of being people, they have no choice but to respect that level of strength to the point that it makes them think twice of trying to take their freedom or land. 

 

I know this is a really high bar to reach, and at the moment I don't really see a way it can feasibly done, but the elves deserve a place to call their own where they can live on their own terms. 

 

They have that to a certain degree as nomads, but with the constantly being hunted by racist humans or overzealous religious fanatics with swords and the general racism they face, they are also to an extent controlled by that lifestyle.

[element eater]

Elves we cause all the problems constantly get ourselves killed

 

and STILL look down out noses at you, and that's why we are the best

 

(this was a joke)

 

elves are great tho

[MisterJB]

Are you suggesting it's higher than any other group of similar economic and political oppression? Bold, to admit your racism that openly.

Racism towards a race that doesn't exist. Besides, pointing out possible internal differences between races without placing one above the other is not racist any more than saying "elves have pointy ears unlike humans" is racist.

 

Regardless, the rate of criminality among elves when compared to other social groups is irrelevant. What is relevant is that in DAO there are four possible riots and one that happens always. In DA2, elves joined the qunari against Kirkwall. In Masked Empire, there is a guild of thieves composed solely of elves and one of their members even reflects how he likes killing humans.

These incidents had provocation, I admit, but they still harm innocent people. One of the human merchants said guild kills asked them to take care of the horse rather than harming them hinting he was a good person who loved animals.

Therefore, chances are, this ban on weapons probably saves innocent lives.

[BronzTrooper]

Racism towards a race that doesn't exist. Besides, pointing out possible internal differences between races without placing one above the other is not racist any more than saying "elves have pointy ears unlike humans" is racist.

 

Regardless, the rate of criminality among elves when compared to other social groups is irrelevant. What is relevant is that in DAO there are four possible riots and one that happens always. In DA2, elves joined the qunari against Kirkwall. In Masked Empire, there is a guild of thieves composed solely of elves and one of their members even reflects how he likes killing humans.

These incidents had provocation, I admit, but they still harm innocent people. One of the human merchants said guild kills asked them to take care of the horse rather than harming them hinting he was a good person who loved animals.

Therefore, chances are, this ban on weapons probably saves innocent lives.

 

* points to the Chevaliers *

 

The thing is, the ban on weapons in the alienages has more to do with the fact that elves are barely considered people by the majority of the nobility.  Same goes for the casteless in Orzammar, who literally have to resort to crime, otherwise they end up begging on the streets.  It also makes purges on the alienages that much easier, since the majority of the elves would be unarmed, and thus, no real threat to the guards.

 

The best comparison to real life I can think of is the plantations in the southern US pre-Civil War.  While the slaves had numbers, the one thing they didn't have was weapons, and that put them at a serious disadvantage.  Since they had no real way to defend themselves, they had to submit or (attempt to) flee.  Once the slaves started getting access to weapons (whether by stealing them, or otherwise) they became bolder and decided to fight back.  Same goes for the elves.  Allow them to have weapons, and you give them power that can be turned against you.

 

Granted, yes, there are likely nobles who enforce those bans with the common people in mind, but most nobles are of the mind that they feel they need to prevent the elves from having any sort of power to keep their own asses safe.

[Eliastion]

Racism towards a race that doesn't exist. Besides, pointing out possible internal differences between races without placing one above the other is not racist any more than saying "elves have pointy ears unlike humans" is racist.

 

Regardless, the rate of criminality among elves when compared to other social groups is irrelevant. What is relevant is that in DAO there are four possible riots and one that happens always. In DA2, elves joined the qunari against Kirkwall. In Masked Empire, there is a guild of thieves composed solely of elves and one of their members even reflects how he likes killing humans.

These incidents had provocation, I admit, but they still harm innocent people. One of the human merchants said guild kills asked them to take care of the horse rather than harming them hinting he was a good person who loved animals.

Therefore, chances are, this ban on weapons probably saves innocent lives.

As much as Iike elves, I get your reasoning. Your conclusion, though, is inherently flawed. What we know is that elves apparently do have weapons (remember when you enter Alienage during Archdemon attack? Iirc, they had the problem of not having any armor to speak of, but weapons were not a problem)... and indeed they have to, since Thedas in general and Ferelden in particular is a place where going completely unarmed is, generally, a bad idea. Having a weapon won't help you much against a proper warrior, but it makes common thugs think twice.

And then there is the problem of who would really obey such a regulation. And the obvious answer is: not those who would actually go and kill someone for no reason.

 

Still, all this is somewhat difficult to discuss, since it doesn't seem to be terribly consistent. We know that our City Elf warden has learned fighting from his/her mother, but there seems to be a need for Borrowed Sword. But we get to receive a really decent dagger of our mother's later in the game. But there is the ban for weapons. But there are armed elves and nobody bats an eye. And apparently Alienage is indeed full of weapons (there seems to be no shortage of that when you try to convince Shianni to fight by your side against Darkspawn). And the city seems to rely on self-defense for crime prevention. But if you steal and mess up, you have a virtual army of guardsmen going after you. Just what the hell

I mean, unless we at some point get some serious, canonical clarification of some issues, there's a lot of head-canoning and hand-weaving needed there to wrap your mind around what's really going on in Denerim (and its Alienage)...

[Elfyoth]

Do you guys think that the theory that Qunari are elves who were experimnted with dragon blood? 

[TK514]

Do you guys think that the theory that Qunari are elves who were experimnted with dragon blood? 

 

No.  Not everything has to tie back to elves.

[Steelcan]

there's an idea that elves are qunari who experimented with dragon blood?

[Elfyoth]

there's an idea that elves are qunari who experimented with dragon blood?

Yep, the theory is in exsistance. 

[BronzTrooper]

Yep, the theory is in exsistance. 

 

There was also a theory that Flemeth was an archdemon, but we know that isn't true.

 

I am curious about those lizard-men paintings in the Exalted Plains, though...

[Red of Rivia]

Do you guys think that the theory that Qunari are elves who were experimnted with dragon blood? 

[BronzTrooper]

Do you guys think that the theory that Qunari are elves who were experimnted with dragon blood? 

 

tbh, if anything, I think that the qunari were kind of like a science experiment of the kossith that didn't exactly go to plan, and thus, they were driven away.  Maybe the kossith are related to the elves in some way, but we've yet to see what they look like.  Perhaps they look similar to the lizard-men paintings in the Exalted Plains?