tbh, if anything, I think that the qunari were kind of like a science experiment of the kossith that didn't exactly go to plan, and thus, they were driven away. Maybe the kossith are related to the elves in some way, but we've yet to see what they look like. Perhaps they look similar to the lizard-men paintings in the Exalted Plains?
Hmmm maybe...
This hunter's letter points to a serious problem some people tend to ignore. People on both sides, actually. As well as Solas
People think about Dalish as "what remained of ancient elves or the Dales at least" and consider their culture to be a preservation of ancient traditions. And while I don't necessarily blame people who think that, since the Dalish speak a lot about ancient traditions, the thing is that they are not runaways taking with them what they could. They had 700 years now (counting from the fall of Dales) and they built a completely different culture. They have their traditions, their beliefs, their way of life. They have many things the elves of the Dales didn't have - and lack many things they did. What some people - even (or perhaps especially) the hard-line elf-supporters tend to overlook is the fact that creation of an elven nation and bringing all the Dalish there so that they may settle means destraction of a whole hundreds years old culture. Dalish may try to convince you that they're the survivors looking for new home, but you shouldn't believe them. They're so much more, at least some of them.
My Dalish Inquisitor was a bit like that.
A hunter who enjoys being a nomad and the current way of life of the Dalish.
Sure it's a hard life , but getting a land doesn't thrill him at all.
He liked having his own elven culture , and it's important to him...but he doesn't long for the old days of Arlathan when everyone had the "gift".
Anyway from a non RP point of view , I think hunters are threatened by a change like sedentary lifestyle.
Among the nomadic Dalish they are important .It would change.
I'd like to see some fracture among the Dalish , with those who are pro "Dalish" with their current lifestyle and others who really wants to bring back the old ways : a land mostly ruled by mages.
(...)
I'd like to see some fracture among the Dalish , with those who are pro "Dalish" with their current lifestyle and others who really wants to bring back the old ways : a land mostly ruled by mages.
If Dales is anything to go by, I don't think Dalish settling down would actually lead to land ruled by mages. Definitely not any more than they are ruled by mages now. Keepers of Dales were important, but in the priesthood-in-pretty-religious-country way rather than de-facto-rulers kind of way.
And the main problem of Dalish would not be actually hunters becoming less important, but rather the fact that they don't really know sh*t about agriculture 
Unless they are joined by "city" elves (I'd say that in reality quite a lot of "city elves" actually live in the country and work as farmhands - we know that some of them do, I frankly believe that it's the majority, only they're not as noticeable as in cities, lumped together in a big Alienage) they will have a very hard time adjusting. And if they ARE joined by city elves, that would breed a whole bunch of different problems for the new elven homeland, starting with "and why the hell should Dalish automatically rule" from City Elves with Dalish (and their moar-elven-teh-thou approach) having a hard time to understand that perhaps they really need to treat city elves more or less equally rather than as children who need to be educated since obviously they have no idea what this whole being elven is all about...
Ok, but now I'm starting to get into problems more relevant to situation of my one character in p&p RPG campaign.
Either way, as for hunters - I don't think their position would be very challenged for two reasons. First - most Dalish are hunters to some extent and in fact its other, rarer skills that are nobilitating... But when we're talking about the elite professional hunters, I bet they're also the best warriors and do most of scouting and fighting for the clan - and when Dalish settle, they're gonna need military and physical prowess of those elite hunters will guarantee them the position of protectors and defenders of the new elven homeland... And such responsibility is exactly where nobility tends to arise from. So, while hunting will likely become less important in time, I wouldn't really worry about the hunters 
I think elves need a homeland but a place they can also wonder semi - nomadic I guess. Do they have Elven heavy armors? And I think City Elves are needed for being close to humans and knowing them.
"Heavy armors". Plate armor isn't really heavy. But yea they have them sort of. Steel combined with leather.
"Heavy armors". Plate armor isn't really heavy. But yea they have them sort of. Steel combined with leather.
Plate armor IS heavy. The place where fantasy (or more RPG) falls short of reality is the fact that chainmail isn't really much lighter, with weight of plate armor being better distributed. And leather armor isn't all that comfortable either, when we're at it...
And as for elven heavy armors, it depends what you consider to be "elven armor". If you think about ancient elves and Dales, the answer is: yes. For ancient elves we have those in Temple of Mythal that apparently wear some kind of plate, then there's this http://dragonage.wik...Elven_armor_set
It's considered medium, but as looks go it's a heavy armor (apparently heavy elven armors were not that heavy ).
With Dalish it's a bit different. Heavy armors aren't very useful for their needs. Still, Varathorn fashions for you a silverite scale armor from ironbark (don't ask ) so apparently they have necessary skills to produce heavier protection than your usual hunter-turned-warrior gear. Whether dalish plates you encounter in the game are actually created by modern Dalish or very old artifacts is another question. Of course they wouldn't sell old artifacts... but that would be possibly going too far with interpreting gameplay to draw lore-related conclusions. In various places you can buy things that Dalish definitely wouldn't be likely to part with for money (that dalish "shop" in DA:I lets you buy a really old keeper's robe, for example...)
Either way, I assume that elven plate armors at the very least do exist, whether they are occasionally crafted nowadays or not:
http://dragonage.wik...ven_Plate_Armor
Plate armor IS heavy. The place where fantasy (or more RPG) falls short of reality is the fact that chainmail isn't really much lighter, with weight of plate armor being better distributed. And leather armor isn't all that comfortable either, when we're at it...
Your definition of heavy is probably different than mine. My family's got lots of military people, so I've been able to throw on the full outfit and equipment packs for the fun of it, and that is something I can handle. Plate armor is something like thirty to sixty pounds. That for me is not heavy.
Your definition of heavy is probably different than mine. My family's got lots of military people, so I've been able to throw on the full outfit and equipment packs for the fun of it, and that is something I can handle. Plate armor is something like thirty to sixty pounds. That for me is not heavy.
You apparently never tried any physically straining exercise in that not-heavy armor... The problems with armors is that you need to actually fight in them. This makes a hell of a difference.
Unless you believe "heavy armor" to be something so heavy that it's unusable in actual battle?
You apparently never tried any physically straining exercise in that not-heavy armor... The problems with armors is that you need to actually fight in them. This makes a hell of a difference.
Unless you believe "heavy armor" to be something so heavy that it's unusable in actual battle?
I can run in modern military attire. That's heavier than plate. The idea of "heavy armor" is something from videogames and fantasy. It's simply a class thing, to show it's heavier than what magelings and assassins wear, because they for whatever reason decided mages can't wear more sturdier attire.
I don't call anything "heavy armor" unless we're talking in video game so people know exactly what I'm talking about. Since we're talking about lore however, I mentioned what was being talked about. Plate armor basically, which the elves do have. Since plate isn't even the heaviest attire out there for medieval armor, it seems a pointless categorization to keep, but you're free to.
Maybe first agree on a definition?
"4. Armor is extremely heavy and renders its wearer immobile.—Wrong.
An entire suit of field armor (that is, armor for battle) usually weighs between 45 and 55 lbs. (20 to 25 kg), with the helmet weighing between 4 and 8 lbs. (2 to 4 kg)—less than the full equipment of a fireman with oxygen gear, or what most modern soldiers have carried into battle since the nineteenth century. Moreover, while most modern equipment is chiefly suspended from the shoulders or waist, the weight of a well-fitted armor is distributed all over the body. It was not until the seventeenth century that the weight of field armor was greatly increased in order to render it bulletproof against ever more accurate firearms. At the same time, however, full armor became increasingly rare and only vital parts of the body, such as the head, torso, and hands, remained protected by metal plate."
source: "Arms and Armor -- Common Misconceptions and Frequently Asked Questions"
http://www.metmuseum...ams/hd_aams.htm
Since there's no firearms in DA you can surely find some middle ground.
Maybe first agree on a definition?
snip
Since there's no firearms in DA you can surely find some middle ground.
It's just pointless semantics really. I don't like referring to armor as "heavy armor" because of the misconception that is attached to thanks to videogames. Not in a lore discussion.
Same for the giant and super thick claymores and such that look way heavier than any weapon ever has a right to be.
"Heavy armors". Plate armor isn't really heavy. But yea they have them sort of. Steel combined with leather.
They also use Ironbark, which according to Origins is as strong as steel but far lighter.
They also use Ironbark, which according to Origins is as strong as steel but far lighter.
You know there is Ironbark in inquisition as well right? 
I can run in modern military attire. That's heavier than plate. The idea of "heavy armor" is something from videogames and fantasy. It's simply a class thing, to show it's heavier than what magelings and assassins wear, because they for whatever reason decided mages can't wear more sturdier attire.
I don't call anything "heavy armor" unless we're talking in video game so people know exactly what I'm talking about. Since we're talking about lore however, I mentioned what was being talked about. Plate armor basically, which the elves do have. Since plate isn't even the heaviest attire out there for medieval armor, it seems a pointless categorization to keep, but you're free to.
And by modern military attire, you mean BDUs, full plate carrier (no backtalk, stick all the kevlar plates in) full of ammunition, grenades, first aid and other necessities, a helmet, a rifle and about thirty more pounds of other equipment?
Just to be on the same page. Off duty isn't the same as full combat.
Also, there are people in real life who think of something else than a Tiger and the like when "heavy armor" is mentioned?
Maybe first agree on a definition?
"4. Armor is extremely heavy and renders its wearer immobile.—Wrong.
An entire suit of field armor (that is, armor for battle) usually weighs between 45 and 55 lbs. (20 to 25 kg), with the helmet weighing between 4 and 8 lbs. (2 to 4 kg)—less than the full equipment of a fireman with oxygen gear, or what most modern soldiers have carried into battle since the nineteenth century. Moreover, while most modern equipment is chiefly suspended from the shoulders or waist, the weight of a well-fitted armor is distributed all over the body. It was not until the seventeenth century that the weight of field armor was greatly increased in order to render it bulletproof against ever more accurate firearms. At the same time, however, full armor became increasingly rare and only vital parts of the body, such as the head, torso, and hands, remained protected by metal plate."
source: "Arms and Armor -- Common Misconceptions and Frequently Asked Questions"
http://www.metmuseum...ams/hd_aams.htm
Since there's no firearms in DA you can surely find some middle ground.
I agree. WWII US Infantrymen carried around 60 pounds of equipment, as I recall.
You know there is Ironbark in inquisition as well right?
Pfft, three units, as I recall.
Also, Masterwork. It's not like it's a Very Rare Tier 4 Metal...
*barges in weaving flag of elfynes*
So far there seems to be no major flame-war on this thread, so...fingers crossed
On a different note....I was curious what happens if you give the red-crossing letter to the chantry? Do they reach the same "fault on both sides" conclusion?
*barges in weaving flag of elfynes*
So far there seems to be no major flame-war on this thread, so...fingers crossed
On a different note....I was curious what happens if you give the red-crossing letter to the chantry? Do they reach the same "fault on both sides" conclusion?
I don't know, tho intrensting.... 
*barges in weaving flag of elfynes*
So far there seems to be no major flame-war on this thread, so...fingers crossed
On a different note....I was curious what happens if you give the red-crossing letter to the chantry? Do they reach the same "fault on both sides" conclusion?
I believe they use it to further justify their annihilation of the Dales and the continued poor treatment of elves, while accepting zero blame themselves.
The elves need a leader to unite them all, they are very separate.
And by modern military attire, you mean BDUs, full plate carrier (no backtalk, stick all the kevlar plates in) full of ammunition, grenades, first aid and other necessities, a helmet, a rifle and about thirty more pounds of other equipment?
Just to be on the same page. Off duty isn't the same as full combat.
Obviously not the rifle, ammunition or grenades. We did bring our own civilian guns though. I went camping with my uncle for the hell of it, so we brought his equipment for that, like the e-tool and all the **** in his pack he's always carrying around. When he comes over. Also cleaned out his mre's.
The elves need a leader to unite them all, they are very separate.
Good luck with that there is way too much bad blood at least on dalish side to this happen.
On a different note....I was curious what happens if you give the red-crossing letter to the chantry? Do they reach the same "fault on both sides" conclusion?
They accepted and agreed that, yes, the elves were at fault.
Hmmm. Ain't nobody seeing that whitesteel though.
Good luck with that there is way too much bad blood at least on dalish side to this happen.
Garahel 9:42 Dragon for President. The grave is no bar to his call.
Garahel 9:42 Dragon for President. The grave is no bar to his call.
If you are saying he would pull that off nope at best he would unite city elves.Dalish would just say he isn't true elf as he was city elf.
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