When your character mentions the attack on the Dales he says "Remarkable, one thing the Dalish got right. We should plant a tree to mark the moment."
I also recall him comparing them to children reenacting tales they heard wrong and mangling history.
where can you mention the attack on the Dales that gets Solas to comment on it? I don't think I've seen that before. is it in the Emerald Graves?
I've had a problem with the Dalish ever since my Warden first met them in DA:O and discovered that they looked down their noses at us for not being 'proper elves', and even had a derogatory term for us: 'flat-ears'. Being discriminated against by humans was already bad enough, but this was just too much. First of all, the traditions that gave them such a sense of smug superiority were hundreds of years old. They didn't even understand them themselves. They may have made sense in the context of a thousand years ago, but now they were just following them for no good reason. Secondly, what good had it done them? If 'holding to the old ways' means squatting in the woods eating berries and squirrels then maybe it's time to start considering some new ways, isn't it? And thirdly, those high-and-mighty elven ways couldn't have been much good to begin with, or else we wouldn't be in the sorry state that we are today.
Any way you look at it, hanging on to poorly-understood traditions from a different time that ended in disaster is just willful stupidity. That's one reason why I like Sera so much: because I agree with her completely. I did play as a Dalish elf, because... no other elf option, but I really miss playing as a City Elf.
I've had a problem with the Dalish ever since my Warden first met them in DA:O and discovered that they looked down their noses at us for not being 'proper elves', and even had a derogatory term for us: 'flat-ears'. Being discriminated against by humans was already bad enough, but this was just too much. First of all, the traditions that gave them such a sense of smug superiority were hundreds of years old. They didn't even understand them themselves. They may have made sense in the context of a thousand years ago, but now they were just following them for no good reason. Secondly, what good had it done them? If 'holding to the old ways' means squatting in the woods eating berries and squirrels then maybe it's time to start considering some new ways, isn't it? And thirdly, those high-and-mighty elven ways couldn't have been much good to begin with, or else we wouldn't be in the sorry state that we are today.
Any way you look at it, hanging on to poorly-understood traditions from a different time that ended in disaster is just willful stupidity. That's one reason why I like Sera so much: because I agree with her completely. I did play as a Dalish elf, because... no other elf option, but I really miss playing as a City Elf.
The hatred thing goes both ways, a lot of city elves view the Dalish as savages. Writing off the Dalish because of the words of a few, is the same as writing of the city elves because of those who join bandit groups, or writing off all humans because of the cheesmongers.
Squating in the woods eating berries and Squirrels is preferable to living in a slum, cowering in an alley every time you hear humans coming. Atleast in my eyes anyway.
High and mighty elven ways resulted in mirrors that could teleport you across the continent. So thats something.
Riiiiight, elven SUPPORT thread, remember? I shall now execute a cunning manouver to get us away from the topic of which elven sub-group is best (hint: all elves are cool).
So, given conflicting statements by the devs, and in game info, do the Dalish actually live longer than their bretheren in human settlements? I think they might. But I think it has more to do with a healthier enviorment and readily access to healing magic and food.
I don't think its anything remarkable, its just people in the city are more likely to get ill and/or murdered. 
The Dalish are hostile when you first meet them because they've come to expect bad things from strangers walking up to their camps. I don't imagine it makes much different to them if the bandits attacking them have pointy ears or rounded. Once they know you don't have bad intent, they're mostly friendly. The same is true of the alienage, where outsiders are also hazed.
The elves that allow themselves to be crowded into alienages and treated as animals, well, I can see the point the Dalish make that they'd rather be dead than that. Even Solas says that the elves living in cities are basically humans who do a few rituals they don't understand.
But of course there is no good option for elves- a life on your own terms but on the edge of survival or subjection and slavery in human lands, and most people are just trying to get by. I was mostly indifferent to Sera but her views are too couched in immaturity and irrationality to count for much in my book.
'Flat-ears', they call us. That's derogatory. They may be friendly, but they still look down on you with pity and contempt, as if they were your superiors. That's the thing I hate: their smug 'elfier-than-thou' attitude. It would still be wrong even if it were justified, but as it turns out, it isn't even that! Their so-called traditions are garbled nonsense. Their idealised ancestors were slavers and tyrants.
I support the Dalish against human intolerance and abuse, but I hate their attitude. They need to stop looking backward, stop looking down their noses at others, and start working on a way forward, instead of trying uselessly to get back to a thousand years ago. As for Sera, you should get past the Buffy-speak and listen to what she actually says, because it makes a lot of sense.
The hatred thing goes both ways, a lot of city elves view the Dalish as savages. Writing off the Dalish because of the words of a few, is the same as writing of the city elves because of those who join bandit groups, or writing off all humans because of the cheesmongers.
Squating in the woods eating berries and Squirrels is preferable to living in a slum, cowering in an alley every time you hear humans coming. Atleast in my eyes anyway.
High and mighty elven ways resulted in mirrors that could teleport you across the continent. So thats something.
It's hardly the words of a few, it's an essential part of their philosophy that they're better than you, despite all evidence to the contrary. And which city elves, in DA:O, DA2, or DA:I did you see discriminating against them? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't remember that scene.
You're right that cowering in an alley is no way to live, which is why my Warden and Shianni made it a point to fight back. That is what I mean by 'moving forward'. Never mind what elves did or didn't do a thousand years ago: let us focus on what elves can make of themselves today, as part of the society that they belong to and not the idealised dream of an ancient empire that, as it turns out, wasn't as wonderful as it's been made out to be.
And sure, the mirrors are cool. Doesn't seem to have prevented them from destroying themselves though, so I wouldn't be too proud. They had slaves, served bloodthirsty gods, and had devastating wars among themselves. Is that anything to aspire to get back to?
Riiiiight, elven SUPPORT thread, remember? I shall now execute a cunning manouver to get us away from the topic of which elven sub-group is best (hint: all elves are cool).
So, given conflicting statements by the devs, and in game info, do the Dalish actually live longer than their bretheren in human settlements? I think they might. But I think it has more to do with a healthier enviorment and readily access to healing magic and food.
You're right, sorry. Shutting up now in progress.
I am in favor of preservation of culture. So this so-called ''old way'' in my opinion needs to be preserved, for they do not become human at once. If their culture die , what will remain? nothing, they will embrace another culture and soon there will be forgotten forever. If I were an elf, I 'd rather tie to the old ways than having to bend over to humans. This is not negotiable.
The Dalish are hostile when you first meet them because they've come to expect bad things from strangers walking up to their camps. I don't imagine it makes much different to them if the bandits attacking them have pointy ears or rounded. Once they know you don't have bad intent, they're mostly friendly. The same is true of the alienage, where outsiders are also hazed.The elves that allow themselves to be crowded into alienages and treated as animals, well, I can see the point the Dalish make that they'd rather be dead than that. Even Solas says that the elves living in cities are basically humans who do a few rituals they don't understand.But of course there is no good option for elves- a life on your own terms but on the edge of survival or subjection and slavery in human lands, and most people are just trying to get by. I was mostly indifferent to Sera but her views are too couched in immaturity and irrationality to count for much in my book.
I am in favor of preservation of culture. So this so-called ''old way'' in my opinion needs to be preserved, for they do not become human at once. If their culture die , what will remain? nothing, they will embrace another culture and soon there will be forgotten forever. If I were an elf, I 'd rather tie to the old ways than having to bend over to humans. This is not negotiable.
@Dorrieb
tbf, Dalish culture isn't what dictates where they live. It's the fact that Orlais had given the elves of the Dales an ultimatum at the end of the Exalted March: either abandon their culture and live in human cities as second-class citizens, or be forced to become wandering nomads that weren't welcomed anywhere in human territory. The Dalish don't choose to live as nomads anymore than city elves choose to live in alienages.
I can understand the letting go of traditions if it's leading to the collapse of your society, but that isn't what's going on with the Dalish. The Dalish are trying to rebuild what they lost. Same could be said of the dwarves, but they're being slower about it (not to mention that their culture is sort of forcing them to circle the drain).
Personally, the Dalish are my favorite faction in the DA universe, though I deeply respect the city elves due to how much they have to survive in their day-to-day. I don't care if one of them is 'more elfy' than the other. They have their own cultures and I'm not one to decide who's got the right culture. There's so much grey in the world and all we have are our opinions in the end.
Plus, if you listen closely to the dialogue in the city elf origin, there are elves who believe the Dalish either don't exist, or they're savages, the latter of which is what many humans believe of the Dalish.
Anyway, lets just talk about how awesome the elves in general are. 
Sometimes Sera takes it a bit too far, but it's understandable that none of the City Elves like being told they're not "real elves" and being called flat ear.
Its worth noting that Dalish and City Elves will have next to no contact with each other. The odd Dalish elf will go to an alienage for whatever reason, and the odd city elf will go join a clan, or some Elven bandits. I'm not sure where Sera has been to have received these insults and where her hatred of anything Elfy comes from, maybe she was just brainwashed by the people that raised her, or maybe she got rejected by a clan (and if so I don't blame them she is a pain in the ass).
It would still be wrong even if it were justified, but as it turns out, it isn't even that! Their so-called traditions are garbled nonsense.
Actually, it's rather remarkable how much the Dalish have got right despite the destruction of many of their ancient records. They speak elven, place a great value on halla as their ancestors did and many of their details about the elven pantheon are correct. It also seems likely that the Dread Wolf's plot to trap the gods (as reported in their folklore) actually happened and that the protagonists were all real (and not merely folklore): we know that the creators all actually existed and I feel that the Forgotten Ones are going to be developed in later games.
Seeing as you present yourself as a fan of city elves, I find it intriguing that you also voice your agreement with Sera who looks down on any attempt to continue elven culture regardless of whether those elves are Dalish, city or ancient (e.g Solas). She was raised by humans and holds very different views to those we've heard from the city elves in Denerim, Kirkwall, Halamshiral etc. most of whom appear to be just as determined as the Dalish to retain what aspects of elven culture they can.
It's hardly the words of a few, it's an essential part of their philosophy that they're better than you, despite all evidence to the contrary. And which city elves, in DA:O, DA2, or DA:I did you see discriminating against them? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't remember that scene.
The contempt that many city elves feel towards the Dalish is developed in DA:O. Pol is a city elf taken in by the Dalish camp and informs you that many of the city elves he lived amongst said that the Dalish were savage and not true elves and comments during the city elf origin suggest the same. The city elf bandits that murdered the Dalish warden's father certainly had no qualms about murdering their fellow elves. Sera in DA:I is a classic example of a city elf (albeit a non-typical city elf) that's discriminatory towards the Dalish - even if the Dalish Inquisitor is friendly to her for the whole game, she still continues to throw around generalising comments about the Dalish including sneering at the Inquisitor when Solas reveals that the vallaslin used to be slave tattoos (during a moment in which I imagine the Inquisitor would have been very upset).
Edit: was ninjaed. The following is a respons to MoonDrummer
Yeah. But the there is that stuff about that craftsmans father, who apparantly fought against the Alamari tribes of Ferelden, and how Lenaya claims Zathrian's lifespan is extraordinary but that all Dalish live long lives. Makes me wonder a bit.
True but, I think the craftman's father fighting against the tribes was Bioware messing up their timeline more than anything. I have wondered if what Zathrian said about other Dalsih who are living as long as him was true, or just something he said to cover his tracks, don't really know tbh.
Their traditions are garbled, but not entirely false. The fact is that the core of their beliefs- that Arlathan was a great city and the creators were real- have been confirmed by DAI as well as the fact that elves were immortal.'Flat-ears', they call us. That's derogatory. They may be friendly, but they still look down on you with pity and contempt, as if they were your superiors. That's the thing I hate: their smug 'elfier-than-thou' attitude. It would still be wrong even if it were justified, but as it turns out, it isn't even that! Their so-called traditions are garbled nonsense. Their idealised ancestors were slavers and tyrants.
No, it really doesn't. She's a child and a nasty one at that. Her hatred of her own identity is really sad.I support the Dalish against human intolerance and abuse, but I hate their attitude. They need to stop looking backward, stop looking down their noses at others, and start working on a way forward, instead of trying uselessly to get back to a thousand years ago. As for Sera, you should get past the Buffy-speak and listen to what she actually says, because it makes a lot of sense.
Other than what I said above, I mean the scene where men are harassing humans that go into the alienage.It's hardly the words of a few, it's an essential part of their philosophy that they're better than you, despite all evidence to the contrary. And which city elves, in DA:O, DA2, or DA:I did you see discriminating against them? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't remember that scene.
If they don't learn the lessons of the past, they'll just make the same mistakes again. And no, I don't think it's bad that the Dalish want to preserve their own traditions rather than assimilating. Even if imperfect, their traditions are their own, not dictated by the dominant culture. If the Dalish are too arrogant, the city elves are too complacent.And sure, the mirrors are cool. Doesn't seem to have prevented them from destroying themselves though, so I wouldn't be too proud. They had slaves, served bloodthirsty gods, and had devastating wars among themselves. Is that anything to aspire to get back to?
True but, I think the craftman's father fighting against the tribes was Bioware messing up their timeline more than anything. I have wondered if what Zathrian said about other Dalsih who are living as long as him was true, or just something he said to cover his tracks, don't really know tbh.
It's also possible that some Clayne still lived independently at that time within the Brecilian forest (like the Avvar or the Chasind who retained their independence from the tribes that formed Ferelden).
Its worth noting that Dalish and City Elves will have next to no contact with each other. The odd Dalish elf will go to an alienage for whatever reason, and the odd city elf will go join a clan, or some Elven bandits. I'm not sure where Sera has been to have received these insults and where her hatred of anything Elfy comes from, maybe she was just brainwashed by the people that raised her, or maybe she got rejected by a clan (and if so I don't blame them she is a pain in the ass).
I've no doubt Sera has run into a dalish elf or two, perhaps even the douchy clan from TME, but the ones that rejected her and made her feel not elfy enough are the City Elves who deride any elf who lives outside the Alienage. Particularly I imagine if they've been adopted by a human family.
Sera has a thing against all elves I doubt a CE Inquisitor would have been treated any better than a dalish one.
where can you mention the attack on the Dales that gets Solas to comment on it? I don't think I've seen that before. is it in the Emerald Graves?
Pick the bottom option on the elf culture conversation. Its not really about about the fall of the dales, the inquisitor just says that he comes from the elves that refused to submit and solas gets all snarky.where can you mention the attack on the Dales that gets Solas to comment on it? I don't think I've seen that before. is it in the Emerald Graves?
Wonder why Solas has such a bone up his arse about the Dalish though. He was the one that f##### up royaly with his brilliant "I will lock away their gods, this won't backfire. Time to go to sleep" scheme. One should think he would applaud that they at least try to remain a separate culture after all they have suffered as a result of his grand plan.
Wonder why Solas has such a bone up his arse about the Dalish though. He was the one that f##### up royaly with his brilliant "I will lock away their gods, this won't backfire. Time to go to sleep" scheme. One should think he would applaud that they at least try to remain a separate culture after all they have suffered as a result of his grand plan.
The dalish really aren't all that different from the avvar we meet in JoH and I've yet to see anyone demand they give up their ways and join mainstream human society.
No spoilers, please. Some of us don't play on XBONE or PC.
Here is my question for you all: How to solve the issue of elves in Dragon Age? Of course, let's be consistent and not come out and say that they would get an army and exterminate humans.
No spoilers, please. Some of us don't play on XBONE or PC.
It doesn't seem all that spoilery to me but tagged for you.
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