The Dalish absolutely have made their lives better by refusing to integrate. They live longer and healthier lives than they would if they were stuck in the rotten bowels of human cities, and their mages aren't ripped away from them and locked in towers.
I do not know ,this still debatable.
Yay, the Dalish magic debate. This will be fun. 
an actual Dalish mage who was forced out of their clan into the Wilds with no real expectation of survival is our only source, damned first hand accounts being so unreliable....
You know its bad when your mages think the templars are a nice alternative
Plenty of mages accept authoritarian systems. But while not all Dalish clans do this ethically, it must be said that Minaeve's situation worked more or less exactly as it was supposed to. I would, however, in any theoretical Dalish unification, put a stop to this practice with those clans that do it (or clan singular, since we only have Minaeve's as an example).
I do not know ,this still debatable.
not a healthier lifestyle when you're as likely to be run through by templars/demons you summoned/enraged locals/werewolves you cursed for eternity/the Champion of Kirkwall as a City elf is to die of disease or some other urban squall
Yay, the Dalish magic debate. This will be fun.
I still don't think the 3 mage rule makes any sense for the Dalish.
Plenty of mages accept authoritarian systems. But while not all Dalish clans do this ethically, it must be said that Minaeve's situation worked more or less exactly as it was supposed to. I would, however, in any theoretical Dalish unification, put a stop to this practice with those clans that do it (or clan singular, since we only have Minaeve's as an example).
Yes, clearly a system that send of kids into the Wilds is one that 'works'.
Also, its unlikely that this is an isolated practice of a single clan.
Yes, clearly a system that send of kids into the Wilds is one that 'works'.
Also, its unlikely that this is an isolated practice of a single clan.
Well, we have no evidence otherwise. But again, it's a system that I do want to change, like many systems involving mages.
Yes, clearly a system that send of kids into the Wilds is one that 'works'.
Also, its unlikely that this is an isolated practice of a single clan.
Doubt it's a 'system' since we have also sources that clans vastly differ from eachother (Solas, Felassan).
How could we know that? On the one hand we're told that Mages are seen as invaluable and suddenly we learn that they send extra mage kids in the Wilds in Inquisition (killing them directly would be more handy and safe if they are a danger). I'm hardly a Dalish stan but come on.
Doubt it's a 'system' since we have also sources that clans vastly differs from eachother (Solas, Felassan).
How could we know that? On the one hand we're told that Mages are seen as invaluable and suddenly we learn that they send extra mage kids in the Wilds in Inquisition (killing them would be more handy). I'm hardly a Dalsih stan but come on.
its a system for that clan
invaluable, but also dangerous and since they don't have the capabilities to train a templar like force a necessary precaution. It might be simple a way to wash their hands of the extra mages "we didn't actually kill them, exposure/wild animals/humans/demons/etc... did"
The Dalish absolutely have made their lives better by refusing to integrate. They live longer and healthier lives than they would if they were stuck in the rotten bowels of human cities, and their mages aren't ripped away from them and locked in towers.
But they never were 'stuck in the rotten bowels of human cities', were they? Has anything about being Dalish improved since they first became the Dalish in 700 years or so?
You're forgetting Roma and travellers... Here in Europe...
Great discussion guys, and I have nothing really to contribute because I can see powerful arguments on both sides. Take the Roma in Spain they have given the world flamenco marvellous poetry and the pagentry of bullfighting on the other side... It is a horrible society in which to be a woman, honour killings, baby making, subjugation...
And there are people who will defend that because, 'hey, it's a cultural thing', but I don't see them offering to trade places with those women. No, no, it's all right for them to be treated like that, it's their culture; my culture is to have a career and my own money and control over my own life. One is not inherently better than the other, right? I'm sure that they enjoy being beaten all their lives as much as I enjoy my American Express card.
The thing is, an end to the subjugation of women would not mean the end of the flamenco. The one is good, the other is bad. And then out comes the sophistry and 'who are you to say that the subjugation of women is wrong, maybe it's wrong for you but not for others, and yadda yadda'. Jeebus, the things people will defend when they don't affect them personally.
So far as the ditching excess mage children is concerned this is not a universal rule but varies from clan to clan. I forget who said it (probably Solas) but the clans have grown further apart over the years. There are the clans we have met in game who seem to cherish their mage children and even willing to take on extras from outside the clans and there are others who don't. In a similar way there are clans who are not better than bandits and deliberately prey on human travellers and there are clans, like Lavellan, who generally try and keep on good terms and avoid human settlements where possible. Up in Rivain there are Dalish who are semi-permanent dwellers on the fringe of human settlements, likely because Rivain has a different attitude to magic from the rest of Thedas.
I'd say that the Dalish are better off not living in alienages but that Mahariel's father was correct in thinking that they should not be quite so isolationist and might learn something from observing humans. I have assumed that the Keeper of the Lavellan clan was probably influenced by his addressing the clans when they were younger and this prompted them to encourage the fact finding mission to the Conclave. Now the truth is coming to light about events both in Arlathan and more recently with the Exalted March on the Dales, I'm hopeful that the Inquisitor will be able to address the clans (if a Dalish) and persuade them to consider reviewing their take on history and involve themselves a bit more with their neighbours to build a better future for everyone. What their own clan is doing up in Wycombe can be an example to all.
I note we aren't allowed to discuss the Jaws of Hakkon here but I would recommend playing that DLC if you are interested in elven history and getting a greater insight into magic generally. I must admit that whilst I found Solas a bit of a disappointment in DAI generally considering how much he obviously did know and yet never told us, the game itself has fulfilled my expectations in revealing a great deal more about events concerning the elves and clearly there is more to come if Solas is anything to go by.
But they never were 'stuck in the rotten bowels of human cities', were they? Has anything about being Dalish improved since they first became the Dalish in 700 years or so?
That was the city elves. And perhaps not, but nothing's improved for the city elves either, so it's not like integrating gets you anything in Thedas except more boots up your ass. And Sera's approach consists mostly of victim-blaming.
And today is the International day of the Romani or Roma people... http://en.wikipedia....i/Romani_people
Kudos to all of you, dudes!
Spoilered for size.
Spoiler
An araval?
Wow, never knew about this pepole!
In hebrew, Romani is a person from Romania the country.
This pepole are literally Dalish, although I still belive that the Dalish have some kind of jewishness in them.
Rome, destroyed the second holy temple at Jerusalem, the jews ran away, to eroupe (It was our fault by some historians an extreme jewish rebellion) just like MAJOR SPOILERS.
The jews in the jewish redemption didint force a fight for a homeland, they actually always said "when the time is right the redempption will end, and we will return to our homeland" Now remember Marethari? She said in DAO "When the time is right, we will return to the dales and we will make a homeland, and will teach those who have forgotten our ways" So yes, now that I see this Romani, I belive the Dalish are a combination of Romani, and Jewish pepole and culture.
I dont understand why some pepole are so suprised Arlathan had slaves. I mean, it was kind of obvious, almost every ancient empire in the real world had slaves. I never thought Arlathan have been "saints" and I am a great elven supporter, thats why I created this thread lol. I just mean we shouldnt be suprised at things, that we support the Elves, it dosent make them saints, that have done nothing wrong. 
And not everyone considers modern life an improvement, despite conveniences. Obviously I'm not talking about basic sanitation and medicine, and it's no doubt difficult if one individual wants to pursue a different path. This discussion however is heavily inflected with the assumption that modernity is the be-all end-all and that we're all marching towards some vision of "progress" that is both inevitable and highly desirable, and that you have to swallow it whole or reject the entire thing.
Are you female? Do you like having the vote? I do. Are you okay with sexual harassment in the workplace? Do you enjoy back breaking labour from dawn to dusk? I don't. What are your feelings on child labour? Segregation? Should homosexuality be illegal? Do you enjoy computer games and spare time in which to play them?
I remember the society into which I was born, and I look at the society in which we live today, and yes, it is an improvement, and not only because of 'conveniences' such as i-phones and the internet. It's easy to idealise the past and fool yourself into thinking that we were better then, more 'spiritual' or more 'in touch with ourselves' and so on, but poke it even just a little and it's rubbish.
its a system for that clan
invaluable, but also dangerous and since they don't have the capabilities to train a templar like force a necessary precaution. It might be simple a way to wash their hands of the extra mages "we didn't actually kill them, exposure/wild animals/humans/demons/etc... did"
'k.
Yeah might so it will remain an assumption until the authors make up their mind about how Dalish "as a whole" manage their mages. Until then I will just assume that it happened in Minaeve clan and could possibly... maybe happen elsewhere as a rule or under some specific circumstances. Because we have accounts of the opposite (possibly Lavellan clan/Zathrian's clan).
Are you female? Do you like having the vote? I do. Are you okay with sexual harassment in the workplace? Do you enjoy back breaking labour from dawn to dusk? I don't. What are your feelings on child labour? Segregation? Should homosexuality be illegal? Do you enjoy computer games and spare time in which to play them?
I remember the society into which I was born, and I look at the society in which we live today, and yes, it is an improvement, and not only because of 'conveniences' such as i-phones and the internet. It's easy to idealise the past and fool yourself into thinking that we were better then, more 'spiritual' or more 'in touch with ourselves' and so on, but poke it even just a little and it's rubbish.
I agree with you completely.
P.S Wasent homosexuality allowed in ancient Greece? 
Just wondering.
Oh and P.S no I am not a female btw. (It lookst like I am the one who posted the thing you are arguing about no I am not, just sayin.
I dont understand why some pepole are so suprised Arlathan had slaves. I mean, it was kind of obvious, almost every ancient empire in the real world had slaves. I never thought Arlathan have been "saints" and I am a great elven supporter, thats why I created this thread lol. I just mean we shouldnt be suprised at things, that we support the Elves, it dosent make them saints, that have done nothing wrong.
Perhaps, but as the elves are a different race and not a different ethnicity, I can understand human racism to them(while not agreeing), after all they are not human and who dominates the world are human. The elves have slaves and for them this are contradictory, you know? '' Oh, suffered so much'' say the elves, but they even had slaves, elven slaves, at least that's what I read in the topics, this is the main argument.
Are you female? Do you like having the vote? I do. Are you okay with sexual harassment in the workplace? Do you enjoy back breaking labour from dawn to dusk? I don't. What are your feelings on child labour? Segregation? Should homosexuality be illegal? Do you enjoy computer games and spare time in which to play them?
I remember the society into which I was born, and I look at the society in which we live today, and yes, it is an improvement, and not only because of 'conveniences' such as i-phones and the internet. It's easy to idealise the past and fool yourself into thinking that we were better then, more 'spiritual' or more 'in touch with ourselves' and so on, but poke it even just a little and it's rubbish.
Modernity for the elves A. has no significant technological advantages that we know of, and B. has brought nothing but societal misery. Why should they be expected to enjoy it?
Perhaps, but as the elves are a different race and not a different ethnicity, I can understand human racism to them(while not agreeing), after all they are not human and who dominates the world are human. The elves have slaves and for them this are contradictory, you know? '' Oh, suffered so much'' say the elves, but they even had slaves, elven slaves, at least that's what I read in the topics, this is the main argument.
So? Do they have human servants or slaves now? That their great great great great great grandfather was a noble elf that had slaves dosent mean they are to blame. As long as they live in the rot, being a nobody, or serving some tea or alchol, or wandering the woods instead, they have the right to complain.
Its like I will say that every south American is to blame for using slavery in the past.
And if they become slaves(somthing that I hope wont happen never) I wouldnt say that they dont have the right to complain, cuz their great grandfather was a racist ******* who had black slaves.
So? Do they have human servants or slaves now? That their great great great great great grandfather was a noble elf that had slaves dosent mean they are to blame. As long as they live in the rot, being a nobody, or serving some tea or alchol, or wandering the woods instead, they have the right to complain.
Its like I will say that every south American is to blame for using slavery in the past.
And if they become slaves(somthing that I hope wont happen never) I wouldnt say that they dont have the right to complain, cuz their great grandfather was a racist ******* who had black slaves.
Well, I can not answer that, since I do not share the same opinion of them.
I think it was predicted that they have slaves, I just did not think it would be they very population. I imagined that they were human, anyway.
I do not believe in genetic fault,as you said, because if we use that argument I would be guilty of rape and extermination of Jews, I did not do it, I was not even born.
Well, I can not answer that, since I do not share the same opinion.
I think it was predicted that they have slaves, I just did not think it would be they very population. I imagined that they were human, anyway.
I do not believe in genetic fault,as you said, because if we use that argument I would be guilty of rape and extermination of Jews, I did not do it, I was not even born.
What? I didint even talk about jews this time rofl
Edit: Ah!
That was the city elves. And perhaps not, but nothing's improved for the city elves either, so it's not like integrating gets you anything in Thedas except more boots up your ass. And Sera's approach consists mostly of victim-blaming.
When you enter the Servant's Quarters in Halamshiral with Sera, you find the body of a murdered cook. Sera gets angry. 'What kind of bastard stops to murder the cook?' she says. She cares about that cook, and the cook was an elf. The difference with Sera is that she doesn't see the victim as an 'elf', but rather as a helpless person who was casually murdered by those more powerful than her for reasons that had nothing to do with her. She would be equally as angry if the cook had been human, or a dwarf. Sera does anything but victim-blaming. She simply sees people for who they are, and not for what shape they are.
What? I didint even talk about jews this time rofl
It was just an example to highlight that I think their argument can not be taken into account. Genetic fault.
When you enter the Servant's Quarters in Halamshiral with Sera, you find the body of a murdered cook. Sera gets angry. 'What kind of bastard stops to murder the cook?' she says. She cares about that cook, and the cook was an elf. The difference with Sera is that she doesn't see the victim as an 'elf', but rather as a helpless person who was casually murdered by those more powerful than her for reasons that had nothing to do with her. She would be equally as angry if the cook had been human, or a dwarf. Sera does anything but victim-blaming. She simply sees people for who they are, and not for what shape they are.
Yes, I agree. But somtimes it is to far, somtimes she sounds like she hate her own race lol
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