1602 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Since the general trend of DA has been towards the destruction of the things in mankind's way, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the elves join their ancient brethren in obscurity.

[MisterJB]

One of my favorite fantasy authors wrote about the same situation and his elves found this solution.
Rather than attempt to convince humans they are loyal citizens with pointed ears, they acknoledged they would always be se en as different. Thus they acknowledged this distinction and took advantage of it.
They founded their own independent city bit rather that fight to keep humans out, they invited them in...as costumers.
Their city caters to the dark desires humans won't admit having.
Want assassins? They havê them. Want arena fights to the death? They have them? Want drugs? Right here. Want brothels where elves of both sexes will do anything? They havê them.

Since they mantain neutrality and attend to people of all nations, their sovereignthy was respected.

No comments on this suggestion?

[Hellion Rex]

Since the general trend of DA has been towards the destruction of the things in mankind's way, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the elves join their ancient brethren in obscurity.

I would agree on the Dalish, but I can definitely see some of the smarter city elves assimilate into society just fine.

[Hellion Rex]

One of my favorite fantasy authors wrote about the same situation and his elves found this solution.
Rather than attempt to convince humans they are loyal citizens with pointed ears, they acknoledged they would always be se en as different. Thus they acknowledged this distinction and took advantage of it.
They founded their own independent city bit rather that fight to keep humans out, they invited them in...as costumers.
Their city caters to the dark desires humans won't admit having.
Want assassins? They havê them. Want arena fights to the death? They have them? Want drugs? Right here. Want brothels where elves of both sexes will do anything? They havê them.

Since they mantain neutrality and attend to people of all nations, their sovereignthy was respected.

I'll just comment on this real quick before I head out the door. I find it very interesting. It might be feasible in the far future, but not right now. I don't Orlais would ever respect an elven sovereign nation, even one so...inviting as this one.

 

I would imagine that these elves you refer to might have a different background then Thedosian elves might. What's their background?

[SgtSteel91]

One of my favorite fantasy authors wrote about the same situation and his elves found this solution.
Rather than attempt to convince humans they are loyal citizens with pointed ears, they acknoledged they would always be se en as different. Thus they acknowledged this distinction and took advantage of it.
They founded their own independent city bit rather that fight to keep humans out, they invited them in...as costumers.
Their city caters to the dark desires humans won't admit having.
Want assassins? They havê them. Want arena fights to the death? They have them? Want drugs? Right here. Want brothels where elves of both sexes will do anything? They havê them.

Since they mantain neutrality and attend to people of all nations, their sovereignthy was respected.

 

This is an interesting solution that could work, maybe make this Elf city next to or in Antiva or something? I think of assassins for hire, drugs, and brothels I think Antiva.

[Heimdall]

If any attempts at a revolution or a social reform in the Chantry or other such human controlled institutions is impossible or incredibly unlikely then what exactly is the point then of the elven struggle?

Actually I think reform in the Chantry and human society is the most viable option for peaceful coexistence and equality.

Historically speaking, some 90% of revolts and revolutions against the established power end in abysmal failure and a worse situation for those that survive. It isn't something to be undertaken for the sake of defiance.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Actually I think reform in the Chantry and human society is the most viable option for peaceful coexistence and equality.

Historically speaking, some 90% of revolts and revolutions against the established power end in abysmal failure and a worse situation for those that survive. It isn't something to be undertaken for the sake of defiance.

 

Some people here don't agree with that sentiment for some reason...

[SgtSteel91]

Some people here don't agree with that sentiment for some reason...

 

I guess the argument is that too much reform in a short amount of time would be met with heavy resistance from the majority and push back to keep the status quo.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I guess the argument is that too much reform in a short amount of time would be met with heavy resistance from the majority and push back to keep the status quo.

 

The mages and the city elves possibly managed to pull it off. Maybe if the Dalish got organized then just maybe they could too. Trying to do something is far more interesting and productive then nothing. 

[MisterJB]

I'll just comment on this real quick before I head out the door. I find it very interesting. It might be feasible in the far future, but not right now. I don't Orlais would ever respect an elven sovereign nation, even one so...inviting as this one.

 

I would imagine that these elves you refer to might have a different background then Thedosian elves might. What's their background?

There is no prolonged history of conflict and slavery. Mostly, the human kingdoms keep growing and pushing elven tribes out of their territories.

Eventually, some decided to join a demigod intent to wipe out humanity while others joined the human kingdoms. When the villain was defeated, the elves who had joined him formed said city while the others condemned them for what they perceived as immorality.

By the end of the books, the other elves are nearly extinct because the humans keep encroaching on their living space but the city and its elves remain.

[In Exile]

No comments on this suggestion?

 

It's not per se a bad idea in the sense that it's pragmatic but I think it requires a substantial sacrifice on the part of the elves, to essentially debase themselves for the entertainment of their betters with the long-term aim being to accrue enough power and standing that they'd no longer have to do that and, instead, have a functional city state (if not more). 

 

On the practical side of things a lot of those services already have strong established presences (e.g. the Antivan Crows) or otherwise are so freely legalized (e.g. prostitution) that there wouldn't be much of a market for travel. At most you could have gladiatorial games (which the Tevinters also seem to have) but I don't see that combat being so popular among most of Southern Thedas. 

 

In the end, I don't think it can work in-setting. 

 

 

The mages and the city elves possibly managed to pull it off. Maybe if the Dalish got organized then just maybe they could too. Trying to do something is far more interesting and productive then nothing. 

 

The mages only pull it off because of the Inquisition. Their rebellion wasn't going particularly well for them, and seemed to be localized to a small swath of Ferelden. Fiona's desperate alliance with Tevinter suggests that she didn't think the mages could actually survive a stand-up fight with the templars. 

[Assassino01]

Why would the humans even need a city sized elven brothel? All the services this hypothetical city would provide can already be found in any major city in Thedas. 

[Bad King]

No comments on this suggestion?

 

Ignoring the fact that on a moral level this suggestion would be repugnant to most elves, it would also fail on a practical level.

 

1). Human nations are already highly diverse and varied as it is. Something considered immoral in Orlais might be perfectly acceptable in Tevinter, Antiva, Rivain etc. So even if the elves did set up a city that offers alternatives for the pariah desires for humans, they'd be in competition with other human nations. If I want assassins, I can already go to the Antivan crows, if I want whores, I can go to the darker corners of any city in Thedas, if I want to keep slaves or purchase magical artifacts forbidden by the Chantry, I can pay a visit to Tevinter. It would be tough to compete with these nations that already have these things and do them better.

 

2). If such a city was successfully established, offering services that are disgusting in the view of those who hold power in human nations and doing so in such an open and transparent manner is basically asking for an Exalted March. It would be impressive if such a city survived for more than a week.

 

So your suggestion would completely fail IMO.

[Steelcan]

The mages and the city elves possibly managed to pull it off. Maybe if the Dalish got organized then just maybe they could too. Trying to do something is far more interesting and productive then nothing. 

trying to get them organized would be a hard sell indeed, they aren't really build for massive cooperation, and they aren't as formidable a force as I imagine many to think they are.  If the entire armed forces of the Dalish clans numbered over 20k I'd be very surprised

[Bad King]

trying to get them organized would be a hard sell indeed, they aren't really build for massive cooperation, and they aren't as formidable a force as I imagine many to think they are.  If the entire armed forces of the Dalish clans numbered over 20k I'd be very surprised

 

If they chose their terrain well (e.g dense woodland lacking permanent settlements or sparsely inhabited mountains and valleys), the Dalish could really punish invading human armies through guerrilla warfare. As they're highly mobile and decentralised, an attacking army would have trouble hitting them where it hurts while simultaneously being harassed by archers/skirmishers and while also running out of supplies. But yeah, organising and uniting such a coalition would be difficult due to how diverse the Dalish are as a culture.

[Assassino01]

trying to get them organized would be a hard sell indeed, they aren't really build for massive cooperation, and they aren't as formidable a force as I imagine many to think they are.  If the entire armed forces of the Dalish clans numbered over 20k I'd be very surprised

 

The Dalish gathered a fairly decent army on short notice back in Origins. It is more the disorganized nature of the Dalish that keeps them from being a threat, not their numbers, or lack of them. 

[Addai]

Since the general trend of DA has been towards the destruction of the things in mankind's way, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the elves join their ancient brethren in obscurity.

You're dreaming. For one thing, there is no such trend. For another, the devs wouldn't eliminate a whole race. Racial distinctives are part of the lore. After DAI, it now seems apparent that elven gods will be antagonists/ plot movers in future content. The elves are here to stay, in one form or another.

[NaclynE]

I like elves even dalish. Its mostly the lore thats why i like them

 

However I feel bad for the city elves. frankly they need to rise up and fight for their beliefs because this whole alienage thing is ****ed up because they have to marry in their own circle while people like that Tim Curry character can waltz in and snag some elves and turn them into slaves which the elves cannot do a darn thing about.

 

Dalish I have no problems with though.

[SerendipitousElf]

If any attempts at a revolution or a social reform in the Chantry or other such human controlled institutions is impossible or incredibly unlikely then what exactly is the point then of the elven struggle?

 

Almost every idea on how to change the city elves and the Dalish elves lives has been shot down in one way or another. If that is the case then what is the solution then? Maintain the status quo? Continue wandering Thedas with no actual plan or hope on finding or reclaiming a homeland or keep on enduring the cruelty of human oppression? 

 

To me that is undeniably boring and quite depressing as well. 

I would like to think from the fantasy world prospective and also take into account that apparently the social system in DA games is comparable to Feudalism and not 19, 20 or 21 century social systems real world equivalents. So many of the ideas in this thread (as brilliant as they might be) will not work in that setting.

 

My idea would be to use the eluvians and whatever other elven artifacts were recovered and move to another world or dimension as Morrigan did. With the help of the ancient elves and Solas and the elven mages (Dalish and CE) - rebuild some of the elven might and magic. More developed magical capabilities and technology will allow elves to face the human states on a more equal footing. 

 

I also thought about the purpose of the Solas' orbs that our Inquisitor activated all over Orlais and Ferelden. What if they are not only build to strengthen the veil, but they can open the veil as well? If so, they can be used to open a bridge over the whole continent and then time magic can be used and the past can be changed altogether (Oh, the horror! ).

 

There are so many possibilities in a fantasy setting, but alas the writers will stick to the most mundane.

[Steelcan]

You're dreaming. For one thing, there is no such trend. For another, the devs wouldn't eliminate a whole race. Racial distinctives are part of the lore. After DAI, it now seems apparent that elven gods will be antagonists/ plot movers in future content. The elves are here to stay, in one form or another.

Morrigan would certainly disagree about that, and its fitting with DA's Tolkien-esque portrayal of much of the lore.

 

I don't see the elves maintaining their current visibility for much longer, especially after the Elven Gods are dealt with for good

[Steelcan]

The Dalish gathered a fairly decent army on short notice back in Origins. It is more the disorganized nature of the Dalish that keeps them from being a threat, not their numbers, or lack of them. 

without fairly exact numbers on the Dalish involved in the Battle for Denerim, I'm not going to be convinced it was a number in any way comparable to the armies that can be levied by the human nations of Thedas

[Elfyoth]

Morrigan would certainly disagree about that, and its fitting with DA's Tolkien-esque portrayal of much of the lore.

 

I don't see the elves maintaining their current visibility for much longer, especially after the Elven Gods are dealt with for good

I disagree, the elves are here to stay, bioware wont create a race with a full history, to wipe it out. 

[Elfyoth]

without fairly exact numbers on the Dalish involved in the Battle for Denerim, I'm not going to be convinced it was a number in any way comparable to the armies that can be levied by the human nations of Thedas

I suppouse the Dalish we saw at Denerim were several clans, not only the Clan we encountered. 

[Elfyoth]

However I feel bad for the city elves. frankly they need to rise up and fight for their beliefs because this whole alienage thing is ****ed up because they have to marry in their own circle while people like that Tim Curry character can waltz in and snag some elves and turn them into slaves which the elves cannot do a darn thing about.

 

Dalish I have no problems with though.

If they revold it will bring to chaos and destruction, who would help them? Maybe the Dalish.. But still, if they revolt all of Thedas would rise against them. No, the city elves need an organzition like the Inquisition to back them up for Alienages to be destroyed. 

[Elfyoth]

Why would the humans even need a city sized elven brothel? All the services this hypothetical city would provide can already be found in any major city in Thedas. 

Why would the humans even need Alienages? What it helps them for?