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Elven Support Thread- No Jaws Of Hakkon Spoilers please! :D


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#1101
ComedicSociopathy

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All things being equal, I might agree. But it's not equal. Elves get a raw deal in Thedas. Humans by and large control most of the land, resources, wealth, and power, while elves get whatever scraps humans throw at them. That's not to say there aren't any poor humans, but elves suffer disproportionately more prejudice and poverty than average humans and don't have as many opportunities or escape hatches. Elves don't have any land or nations of their own since humans took it, don't have wealth or titles since humans keep elves financially dependent on them as servants and laborers (and tend to react violently when elves try to rise too high in human society), and they don't get to enjoy some poverty escape hatches like joining the army or Chantry if peasant life isn't treating them well. (Again, many poor human farm boys and girls have been shown to join the army, priesthood, or even Templar Order, while poor elves seem to be SOL.)

 

Yet, the second something beneficial of the elves is discovered (ancient magics, techologies, etc), the elves should give up what little they have to people who by and large already have more than them?

 

They shouldn't have to give it up. That's sort of the opposite of what I was trying to convey in an admittedly highly optimistic statement. The elves should get the eluvians because it would help them as a people communicate and connect with one another. The same can be said about almost every other civilization and race in Thedas. Yes, they've suffered more then pretty much everyone else but should that mean that others should be withheld technology that could make their own society's prosper? I don't think so. Once Southern Thedas has stopped its warring, sharing the eluvians with anyone the Inquisition can trust not to abuse them would be the right thing to do IMO. 

 

 

Bolded: What? What sense does that make?

 

Also, nice double-standard. When something positive or beneficial is discovered of the elves (like Eluvian technology), it doesn't belong to them, it belongs to everyone. But when something negative or destructive is revealed of the elves (the destruction of Arlathan), you choose to believe that the blame belongs only to them. Everything positive associated with elves? It's everyone's! Everything negative associated with elves? No, it's all theirs, not anyone else's.

 

Hope I didn't give you cause to be offended, friend.

 

I was just reiterating what Abelas and Morrigan told me about the fall of the ancient elves. They said the ancient elves warred among each other and turned off the eluvians to ensure that they couldn't be surprised attacked by other elves. I also did state that Tevinter had a hand in making things worse and destroying whatever was felt of the Arlathan. Honestly, though if we wanted to play the blame game I'd put the finger to Solas, the Creators and the Forgotten Ones. Their the ones who apparently were so awful that Solas had to seal them away, resulting in ancient elves killing each other in a panic. 

 

The modern elves shouldn't be derived of the eluvians just because of the faults of their Gods and their ancestors. They had nothing to do any of that business. I just think they also shouldn't be be the only ones allowed to have the eluvians either, just like I don't think that only humans should join the Chantry or live outside the alienage. It's unfair and only serves to marginalize others. I think were both tried of entire groups of people being marginalized, right? So, how about we all share the benefits of an amazing discovery. 



#1102
Steelcan

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I think the Eluvians should be destroyed, immediately, some of them probably already lead into the Black City (assuming its Arlathan) and the rest might not be so safe once the Crossroads disintegrates.


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#1103
Heimdall

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we don't know if the explosion would have happened regardless.  After Justinia was drained it may have exploded as well, o way to know for sure, and if the Orb was already powered up why'd Solas describe himself as too weak?

Because Corypheus was the one who opened it after Solas gave it to him, he just didn't give it back and instead started using its power in his own plans.  The conclave came after.



#1104
Steelcan

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Because Corypheus was the one who opened it after Solas gave it to him, he just didn't give it back and instead started using its power in his own plans.

right, he opened it at the Conclave, that's why the Anchor was bestowed on the Inquisitor and not Corypheus.

 

if he already had it fully unlocked, I doubt Solas would have let him keep it



#1105
Hellion Rex

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I think the Eluvians should be destroyed, immediately, some of them probably already lead into the Black City (assuming its Arlathan) and the rest might not be so safe once the Crossroads disintegrates.

I don't know why, but I got the sense that there were something in the Crossroads as well. Something...alive. And yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if there's an eluvian in the Black City.

 

 

If Flemeth is any proof, the mirrors can truly take you anywhere. On top of that, we now have proof of mirrors in the Fade, cause of how she directed Morrigan's to spit you out in the Fade.



#1106
Steelcan

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I don't know why, but I got the sense that there were something in the Crossroads as well. Something...alive.

just your friendly neighborhood demons spirits pressing on it from inside the Fade I imagine



#1107
Heimdall

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right, he opened it at the Conclave, that's why the Anchor was bestowed on the Inquisitor and not Corypheus.

 

if he already had it fully unlocked, I doubt Solas would have let him keep it

If he already had it unlocked, and had access to the power within, how would Solas stop him?



#1108
Master Warder Z_

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I think the Eluvians should be destroyed, immediately, some of them probably already lead into the Black City (assuming its Arlathan) and the rest might not be so safe once the Crossroads disintegrates.

...it could spread Orlais across the world but I agree.

I think I called them portals to hell in the past, that hasn't changed.

#1109
Steelcan

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If he already had it unlocked, and had access to the power within, how would Solas stop him?

he's the gorram Dread Wolf, I'd be disappointed if he didn't have a trick up his sleeve



#1110
ComedicSociopathy

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I think the Eluvians should be destroyed, immediately, some of them probably already lead into the Black City (assuming its Arlathan) and the rest might not be so safe once the Crossroads disintegrates.

 

Maybe instead of destroying them all we should do a thorough and careful examination of them to figure out which one's are dangerous and which one's lead to beautifully tropical beaches.

 

Having an instantaneous transportation system in a medieval setting is the sort of thing I wouldn't want to throw away. 



#1111
Hellion Rex

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just your friendly neighborhood demons spirits pressing on it from inside the Fade I imagine

Nah, I think it's something more. In the novel, remember how it was mentioned that the network was suddenly shut down, all at once, without warning? That seemed rather telling that something was going wrong.



#1112
Steelcan

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Maybe instead of destroying them all we should do a thorough and careful examination of them to figure out which one's are dangerous and which one's lead to beautifully tropical beaches.

 

Having an instantaneous transportation system in a medieval setting is the sort of thing I wouldn't want to throw away. 

smash them all, throw them into the sea, be rid of them once and for all

 

Eluvians aren't instantaneous as per TME, learn to ride horses instead



#1113
Heimdall

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he's the gorram Dread Wolf, I'd be disappointed if he didn't have a trick up his sleeve

By his own admission, he's weakened and Corypheus is more powerful than him even without the orb.

 

I imagine he had some plan, that's why he was nearby when the conclave happened, but he lost track of Corypheus after.



#1114
Steelcan

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Nah, I think it's something more. In the novel, remember how it was mentioned that the network was suddenly shut down, all at once, without warning? That seemed rather telling that something was going wrong.

Solas's work undoubtedly


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#1115
RobRam10

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...it could spread Orlais across the world but I agree

What a horrible usage of the Eluvians. They should be use to spread the glory of Tevinter to the whole of Thedas again.



#1116
Hellion Rex

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Maybe instead of destroying them all we should do a thorough and careful examination of them to figure out which one's are dangerous and which one's lead to beautifully tropical beaches.

 

Having an instantaneous transportation system in a medieval setting is the sort of thing I wouldn't want to throw away. 

But at what cost? Dimensional travel is all well and good, but I am also extremely wary of those "in-between" places that Morrigan briefly mentioned. We don't know what's on the other side of those glass devices.


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#1117
Steelcan

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By his own admission, he's weakened and Corypheus is more powerful than him even without the orb.

 

I imagine he had some plan, that's why he was nearby when the conclave happened, but he lost track of Corypheus after.

yeah, cause he underestimated Corypheus and thought he'd be atomized as well by the blast like everything and everybody else



#1118
Hellion Rex

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Solas's work undoubtedly

Damn, good point. Maybe whatever he actually "did" caused a simultaneous attack on all the major elven technologies and magical devices. Though, I'm still trying to figure out where he got all this power. I will grant that the elven gods were very strong, but how could he do this all by himself?



#1119
Hellion Rex

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smash them all, throw them into the sea, be rid of them once and for all

I remember someone mentioned once upon a time that we should cart them all to Orzammar and drop them into the lava there.

:lol:



#1120
ComedicSociopathy

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smash them all, throw them into the sea, be rid of them once and for all

 

Eluvians aren't instantaneous as per TME, learn to ride horses instead

 

But at what cost? Dimensional travel is all well and good, but I am also extremely wary of those "in-between" places that Morrigan briefly mentioned. We don't know what's on the other side of those glass devices.

 

Luddites the whole lot of you.  :P



#1121
Steelcan

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Damn, good point. Maybe whatever he actually "did" caused a simultaneous attack on all the major elven technologies and magical devices. Though, I'm still trying to figure out where he got all this power.

as part of his plan to seal the Creators in the Fade, cutting off easier routes into the Fade seems a logical continuation

 

he's probably a super powered spirit like Nightmare.  He mentions that there were "original" demons (iirc Fear and Desire being the "first") he could be the originator of Pride



#1122
Steelcan

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Luddites the whole lot of you.  :P

I haven't been called that in a while, not since Wulfie graced this forum with his presence...

 

course he added numerous other adjectives



#1123
Heimdall

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yeah, cause he underestimated Corypheus and thought he'd be atomized as well by the blast like everything and everybody else

I still think the blast was an accidental consequence of the ritual being disrupted.

 

If that was a normal consequence of the orb opening, then why would he try to open it himself in the first place?



#1124
Hellion Rex

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as part of his plan to seal the Creators in the Fade, cutting off easier routes into the Fade seems a logical continuation

 

he's probably a super powered spirit like Nightmare.  He mentions that there were "original" demons (iirc Fear and Desire being the "first") he could be the originator of Pride

Perhaps. He might simply be an elf possessed by a primordial spirit of Pride.

 

And true, that makes sense that he wanted to effectively cut off all access to the Fade.



#1125
Steelcan

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I still think the blast was an accidental consequence of the ritual being disrupted.

 

If that was a normal consequence of the orb opening, then why would he try to open it himself in the first place?

because he's capable of surviving it I imagine