1602 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Considering said Ball ended with the assassination of their long-reigning Empress by an agent of a darkspawn Magister (who was no less than Gaspard's own sister), anything associating Gaspard in any way with that assassination is guaranteed to cause discontent amongst the nobility for a long time. But even if we do assume that it wont last for ever, neither will Gaspard's reputation as he capitulates to Briala: he can only bide his time for a limited period without being viewed as a weak puppet of Briala/the Inquisition by the nobility. He can try and wriggle out of Briala's grasp now and risk a rebellion when Briala or the Inquisition spill the beans or he can bide his time and risk a rebellion against him as his reputation deteriorates. He's not in a good place right now (for those who picked Briala/Gaspard).

I disagree, if he has her executed he can prove that he is in control of the situation, the Inquisition likely won't go to war over it, as it'd be a horrendously stupid idea to attack Orlais.  He can rely on the military and his support in the nobility whereas Briala has no local support beyond her spies.  No one ever accuses Gasopard of being in cahoots with Florianne and there is no evidence for it, if the nobility doesn't accuse him of it right afterwards, I doubt they will wait years for it.

[In Exile]

I disagree, if he has her executed he can prove that he is in control of the situation, the Inquisition likely won't go to war over it, as it'd be a horrendously stupid idea to attack Orlais. He can rely on the military and his support in the nobility whereas Briala has no local support beyond her spies. No one ever accuses Gasopard of being in cahoots with Florianne and there is no evidence for it, if the nobility doesn't accuse him of it right afterwards, I doubt they will wait years for it.

Execute Briala *for what*? You're forgetting that even a political execution requires a show trial. What is he going to pin on her and how is he going to do it without being exposed?

He can try to assassinate her but that's quite different.

[Addai]

I disagree, if he has her executed he can prove that he is in control of the situation, the Inquisition likely won't go to war over it, as it'd be a horrendously stupid idea to attack Orlais.  He can rely on the military and his support in the nobility whereas Briala has no local support beyond her spies.  No one ever accuses Gasopard of being in cahoots with Florianne and there is no evidence for it, if the nobility doesn't accuse him of it right afterwards, I doubt they will wait years for it.

And Briala could have Gaspard assassinated to replace him with someone more pliable. /shrug

[Colonelkillabee]

Nothing to worry about since in this hypothetical scenario the Inquisitor would be her husband/wife/imperial adviser. And as we know the Inquisitor doesn't take any lip from some trumped up, chesse eating, mask wearing, weirdos in silly, impractical  outfits. 

 

Besides, Josephine is probably the most effective (and not crazy) adviser we have. With the Inquisitor's help she'd rule well, or at least better then the other three candidates. 

Eh, whatever floats your boat Personally, I would want nothing to do with Orlais, so she'd be on her own.

[Bad King]

I disagree, if he has her executed he can prove that he is in control of the situation, the Inquisition likely won't go to war over it, as it'd be a horrendously stupid idea to attack Orlais.  He can rely on the military and his support in the nobility whereas Briala has no local support beyond her spies.  No one ever accuses Gasopard of being in cahoots with Florianne and there is no evidence for it, if the nobility doesn't accuse him of it right afterwards, I doubt they will wait years for it.

 

The Inquisition wouldn't have to go to war over it. Gaspard is clearly terrified of the ramifications if that information gets out and unless he's highly deluded (and that information is actually completely harmless to his reputation), it's justified to believe that the nobility would wreak havoc over it without the Inquisition needing to lift a finger. It would of course be in the Inquisition's best interests to topple him considering he'd probably despise the Inquisition for aiding Briala in controlling him - they could simply stir up a rebellion and back another claimant to the throne.

 

So his choices are:

1). Move against Briala, have his secrets exposed, and face a crisis from within the nobility.

2). Continue to capitulate to Briala and, when the time is right, move against her. His secrets would then be exposed which IMO would be damning, but even assuming you are correct and the nobility would have lost a lot of interest in his involvement at the Winter Palace, his reputation would already be in tatters by then due to his acting as a puppet for so long. Combining that with the newly released information that he's a bit of a crook, the nobility are unlikely to look at him with approval by that point.

3). Continue to capitulate to Briala's demands for elven equality and hope that the nobility fear the Inquisition's alliance with Briala enough to stay in line. If a few nobles decide to move against him, he can work with Briala (and perhaps the Inquisition) to crush the conspirators. Gaspard gets to remain Emperor and the only price he has to pay is to push for a few policies that improve elven rights and offer them some power.

 

To me, his best option is the third one: option one makes him appear a villain, option two makes him appear weak and villainous (to a varying degree depending on whether my view or your view is correct) and option three makes him appear weak but is the most likely to have him remain in power as long as he plays ball.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Eh, whatever floats your boat Personally, I would want nothing to do with Orlais, so she'd be on her own.

 

Can't blame for waving nothing to do with that cesspool. 

[Steelcan]

Execute Briala *for what*? You're forgetting that even a political execution requires a show trial. What is he going to pin on her and how is he going to do it without being exposed?

He can try to assassinate her but that's quite different.

As if charges can't be trumped up, attempted murder, murder, treason, torturing puppies

 

Have her walk into a mace a half dozen times in the middle of the night.

[Steelcan]

And Briala could have Gaspard assassinated to replace him with someone more pliable. /shrug

doubtful, if Gaspard is on the throne the only other two contenders are dead, you can't just say "you're emperor now"

[Red of Rivia]

doubtful, if Gaspard is on the throne the only other two contenders are dead, you can't just say "you're emperor now"

They will and appoint another, Game of Thrones.

[In Exile]

The Inquisition wouldn't have to go to war over it. Gaspard is clearly terrified of the ramifications if that information gets out and unless he's highly deluded (and that information is actually completely harmless to his reputation), it's justified to believe that the nobility would wreak havoc over it without the Inquisition needing to lift a finger. It would of course be in the Inquisition's best interests to topple him considering he'd probably despise the Inquisition for aiding Briala in controlling him - they could simply stir up a rebellion and back another claimant to the throne.

So his choices are:
1). Move against Briala, have his secrets exposed, and face a crisis from within the nobility.
2). Continue to capitulate to Briala and, when the time is right, move against her. His secrets would then be exposed which IMO would be damning, but even assuming you are correct and the nobility would have lost a lot of interest in his involvement at the Winter Palace, his reputation would already be in tatters by then due to his acting as a puppet for so long. Combining that with the newly released information that he's a bit of a crook, the nobility are unlikely to look at him with approval by that point.
3). Continue to capitulate to Briala's demands for elven equality and hope that the nobility fear the Inquisition's alliance with Briala enough to stay in line. If a few nobles decide to move against him, he can work with Briala (and perhaps the Inquisition) to crush the conspirators. Gaspard gets to remain Emperor and the only price he has to pay is to push for a few policies that improve elven rights and offer them some power.

To me, his best option is the third one: option one makes him appear a villain, option two makes him appear weak and villainous (to a varying degree depending on whether my view or your view is correct) and option three makes him appear weak but is the most likely to have him remain in power as long as he plays ball.

Gaspard had power at one juncture: when the Inquisitor wanted to install Briala. At that point his option was to threaten to shatter everything. His best move, IMO, was to hold Thedas hostage like some megalomaniac villain.

Briala can't rule alone. With Celene dead and Gaspard discredited there isn't a clear ruler for Orlais.

So he says he'll rule alone and have Briala executed on the spot for her role in Celene's death, or the Inquisition can enjoy seeing Orlais fall into chaos and be left without the army they need.

[Bad King]

As if charges can't be trumped up, attempted murder, murder, treason, torturing puppies

 

Have her walk into a mace a half dozen times in the middle of the night.

 

There's also the matter of actually capturing Briala for the trial to happen as she's a master of stealth and subterfuge who controls the eluvians and is in an alliance with the Inquisition. If she sought the Inquisition's protection, then Gaspard would have to back down or risk having his secrets exposed.

[TK514]

Execute Briala *for what*? You're forgetting that even a political execution requires a show trial. What is he going to pin on her and how is he going to do it without being exposed?

He can try to assassinate her but that's quite different.

She's an elf.  New Minted Noble or not, do you really think any of Orlais' Nobility would bat an eye if he just up and killed her over dinner?

[In Exile]

As if charges can't be trumped up, attempted murder, murder, treason, torturing puppies

Have her walk into a mace a half dozen times in the middle of the night.

Fake charges don't just come out of the ether. You need coconspirators, fake evidence, publicity. All of that is subterfuge.

As to your second point that's just an assassination.

[Steelcan]

The Inquisition wouldn't have to go to war over it. Gaspard is clearly terrified of the ramifications if that information gets out and unless he's highly deluded (and that information is actually completely harmless to his reputation), it's justified to believe that the nobility would wreak havoc over it without the Inquisition needing to lift a finger. It would of course be in the Inquisition's best interests to topple him considering he'd probably despise the Inquisition for aiding Briala in controlling him - they could simply stir up a rebellion and back another claimant to the throne.

 

So his choices are:

1). Move against Briala, have his secrets exposed, and face a crisis from within the nobility.

2). Continue to capitulate to Briala and, when the time is right, move against her. His secrets would then be exposed which IMO would be damning, but even assuming you are correct and the nobility would have lost a lot of interest in his involvement at the Winter Palace, his reputation would already be in tatters by then due to his acting as a puppet for so long. Combining that with the newly released information that he's a bit of a crook, the nobility are unlikely to look at him with approval by that point.

3). Continue to capitulate to Briala's demands for elven equality and hope that the nobility fear the Inquisition's alliance with Briala enough to stay in line. If a few nobles decide to move against him, he can work with Briala (and perhaps the Inquisition) to crush the conspirators. Gaspard gets to remain Emperor and the only price he has to pay is to push for a few policies that improve elven rights and offer them some power.

 

To me, his best option is the third one: option one makes him appear a villain, option two makes him appear weak and villainous (to a varying degree depending on whether my view or your view is correct) and option three makes him appear weak but is the most likely to have him remain in power as long as he plays ball.

Well first of all there are no other claimants to the throne, if Gaspard is in power all his relatives are dead, there may some twelfth cousin six times removed but that's hardly a rallying cry of legitimacy.

 

1.  That assumes there'd be a crisis, if the choice is "this uppity elf" or the rightful Emperor, I doubt the nobles will overthink it

2.  This assumes Gaspard can't reign them back in through coercion or violence, which he is rather good at doing

 

I think Gaspard is too proud to play ball forever

[In Exile]

She's an elf. New Minted Noble or not, do you really think any of Orlais' Nobility would bat an eye if he just up and killed her over dinner?

Yes. In politics these formal show trials matter because everyone wants a degree of protection. Gaspard having to play the game to kill Briala instead if just stabbing her in the throat in front of everyone is how all the nobles keep safe.

That's why his attempt to break the game only works at the peak of his power, backed by the Inquisition, and with a trail of blood.

[Steelcan]

They will and appoint another, Game of Thrones.

?

 

Robert had a rightful claim to the throne through his Targaryen grandmother, all the other kings before him were Targaryens and had varing degrees of legitimate claim, and after him Joffrey and Tommen are legally his kids

[Steelcan]

Fake charges don't just come out of the ether. You need coconspirators, fake evidence, publicity. All of that is subterfuge.

As to your second point that's just an assassination.

If the Emperor of Orlais comes to some nobles and says "we are going to take out this elf who has been ruining our culture" I doubt he'd be turned away

[Steelcan]

There's also the matter of actually capturing Briala for the trial to happen as she's a master of stealth and subterfuge who controls the eluvians and is in an alliance with the Inquisition. If she sought the Inquisition's protection, then Gaspard would have to back down or risk having his secrets exposed.

She's a master of stealth and subterfuge, who can't use any of it in the palace.  Have her arrested in the middle of the night, dragged out to a judge, she can be dead by sunrise

[TK514]

Yes. In politics these formal show trials matter because everyone wants a degree of protection. Gaspard having to play the game to kill Briala instead if just stabbing her in the throat in front of everyone is how all the nobles keep safe.

That's why his attempt to break the game only works at the peak of his power, backed by the Inquisition, and with a trail of blood.

 

If were were talking about someone the other nobles considered an actual peer, aka another human noble, I would agree.  But we aren't.  We're talking about an elf in Orlais.  Horses are considered more valuable.  There isn't a noble in the land that would bat an eye at the death of a "jumped up knife-ear".  Most of them probably consider her an insult to the nobility to begin with.

[Wulfram]

Nobles don't have to like the person being executed to be alarmed by the implications for themselves.

[Steelcan]

Nobles don't have to like the person being executed to be alarmed by the implications for themselves.

but will their disgust at an action underaken against a dead empress at a past Ball outweigh their present racism and dislike of the changes Briala implements?  Unlikely

[Master Warder Z_]

but will their disgust at an action underaken against a dead empress at a past Ball outweigh their present racism and dislike of the changes Briala implements? Unlikely

Hence why I view her dying inside a decade after the Breach.

Likely of a bad case of sword in the lung

[In Exile]

If the Emperor of Orlais comes to some nobles and says "we are going to take out this elf who has been ruining our culture" I doubt he'd be turned away

 

It's not that simple. He's got to actually have a racist furor to be able to take advantage of to pull it off, because, again, other nobles have a real interest in preventing their enemies from being able to kill them using flimsy justifications. 

 

If were were talking about someone the other nobles considered an actual peer, aka another human noble, I would agree.  But we aren't.  We're talking about an elf in Orlais.  Horses are considered more valuable.  There isn't a noble in the land that would bat an eye at the death of a "jumped up knife-ear".  Most of them probably consider her an insult to the nobility to begin with.

 

Race doesn't matter in this case, because not even Orlais condones the killing of elves for the sake of killing elves. They're racist, but like how people in the 60s-70s were racist, not the 30s. Briala obviously assumed a lot of power: she is blackmailing the throne and raised herself to the nobility. We're talking about an upstart that won the Game and is now having her defeated enemies bite at her heels. Other nobles need to know that winning the Game protects them. That's how the Game works. The alternative to that is just outright civil war. 

[Steelcan]

It's not that simple. He's got to actually have a racist furor to be able to take advantage of to pull it off, because, again, other nobles have a real interest in preventing their enemies from being able to kill them using flimsy justifications. 

 

 

Race doesn't matter in this case, because not even Orlais condones the killing of elves for the sake of killing elves. They're racist, but like how people in the 60s-70s were racist, not the 30s. Briala obviously assumed a lot of power: she is blackmailing the throne and raised herself to the nobility. We're talking about an upstart that won the Game and is now having her defeated enemies bite at her heels. Other nobles need to know that winning the Game protects them. That's how the Game works. The alternative to that is just outright civil war. 

Briala is doing stuff like tearing down the Alienage walls, I doubt the nobles are neutral on this

 

Chevaliers kill elves with impunity, purges of Alienages are a fact of life, and Gaspard would jump at the chance to prove the Game is a load of crap

[Red of Rivia]

?

 

Robert had a rightful claim to the throne through his Targaryen grandmother, all the other kings before him were Targaryens and had varing degrees of legitimate claim, and after him Joffrey and Tommen are legally his kids

They will point out another Emperor.