1602 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

Considering that there are two versions to this, what do you guys believe that triggered the events of the Exalted March on the Dales?

[SgtSteel91]

Hey, elven fans. There is a drawing of Garahel slaying the Archdemon in "The World of Thedas volume 2"

 

Is he on his Griffon while this happens?

[MisterJB]

Is he on his Griffon while this happens?

The griffon is on the drawing but it's falling, mortally wounded.

[Addai]

The griffon is on the drawing but it's falling, mortally wounded.

Crookytail 

[Master Warder Z_]

Crookytail

Eh to be fair dozens died just to get to that moment.

[In Exile]

Considering that there are two versions to this, what do you guys believe that triggered the events of the Exalted March on the Dales?

 

Do you mean the actual March or the war between the two countries? 

[Qun00]

Both?

The attack on Red Crossing is a good starting point.

[LOLandStuff]

Opening a can of worms.

 

Tsk. Not wise.

[MisterJB]

Did someone say Red Crossing?

I could have sworn I heard someone say Red Crossing. I have all these tired arguments here all ready to paste and everything.

[thetinyevil]

I really hope that in future games we see Elves getting a better hand then the one they have been dealt in the last what 800 years.

[dragonflight288]

Both?

The attack on Red Crossing is a good starting point.

 

This is a can of worms. I'll pay attention but I probably won't get too involved. 

 

Inquisition brought in so more details in the Emerald Graves, but the war itself was 10 years long. Sometimes when we talk about the Fall of the Dales, it's easy to to mistake the war for the exalted march and vice versa. 

 

I think Red Crossing was the needle that broke the camel's back, but there was a lot of tension building up well before it. Both sides talk of border skirmishes, the first hand account talks about how a human disappeared and the dalish were blamed without proof, then an elf was murdered before we even got to the actual skirmish. 

 

Add in the animosity from the dalish not helping Orlais with the second blight, the dalish seeing the Orlesians as little better than Tevinter, and the likely agitators on both sides and you have a recipe for disaster. 

 

That's as far as I'm going on the topic of the Exalted March. 

[dragonflight288]

I really hope that in future games we see Elves getting a better hand then the one they have been dealt in the last what 800 years.

 

When we say elves, do we mean elves in general, city elves and how they're treated by humans or the dalish being successful in finding a land and elves going there if they choose?

[LOLandStuff]

When we say elves, do we mean elves in general, city elves and how they're treated by humans or the dalish being successful in finding a land and elves going there if they choose?

 

Dalish and City Elves who must convert to the old ways to be accepted.

[dragonflight288]

Dalish and City Elves who're willing to convert to be accepted.

 

City Elves already are converted, and they're not closer to being accepted by humans than the Dalish. 

[LOLandStuff]

City Elves already are converted, and they're not closer to being accepted by humans than the Dalish. 

 

Both humans and Dalish suck for a City Elf.

 

They'd be better off without these two, honestly.

[dragonflight288]

Both humans and Dalish suck for a City Elf.

 

They'd be better off without these two, honestly.

 

Not necessarily true.

 

Pol left the alienage and joined Merrill's clan because he felt life among he Dalish was superior to the alienage. 

 

And I'm more than positive that the city elves of Wycome had better lives thanks to Clan Lavellan.

 

You'd have to take it on a clan-by-clan basis. 

[Bad King]

Not necessarily true.

 

Pol left the alienage and joined Merrill's clan because he felt life among he Dalish was superior to the alienage. 

 

And I'm more than positive that the city elves of Wycome had better lives thanks to Clan Lavellan.

 

You'd have to take it on a clan-by-clan basis. 

 

There's also Lanaya and Aneirin who were both taken in by Zathrian.

[Master Warder Z_]

There's also Lanaya and Aneirin who were both taken in by Zathrian.

A mass murdering blood mage sociopath can have charity! Who knew.

[Xilizhra]

A mass murdering blood mage sociopath can have charity! Who knew.

Sociopaths don't have emotional attachments in the same way that other people do. Zathrian had plenty of emotional attachments, he was just vengeful.

[LOLandStuff]

They'd still have to convert if they want to stick around the Dalish.

 

But if they have to live together as a whole, they'd better deal with it and not start a contest on who's god is better.

[Steelcan]

In short, the border tensions are responsible for the escalation into all out war, the border tensions were the result of mistrust and religious tension and the elves' behavior during the Blight.

 

Blame for the incident at Red Crossing goes both ways.  The humans didn't exactly get on well with the elves, killing two of them, but its hard to blame them for being suspicious when they are cut down by elite warriors of the Dales and their town attacked immediately afterwards.

 

After that though the Elves can't really claim any moral high ground, an invasion of an entire nation, sacking cities all the way to Val Royeaux, and refusing to surrender after the war had been turned.

[In Exile]

Sociopaths don't have emotional attachments in the same way that other people do. Zathrian had plenty of emotional attachments, he was just vengeful.

It's more than just being vengeful. Let's ignore what he does to the humans and focus on what he does to the Dalish. First, he perpetrated a fraud that basically mocked their most sacred beliefs about elven immortality. He led them to believe their (racist) views on isolation were justified because of a ritual he concocted. Second, once Witherfang appeared, he effectively let his people continue to suffer rather than do everything in his power (i.e. give up his vengeance) to save them.

That's not exactly caring.

[Bad King]

It's more than just being vengeful. Let's ignore what he does to the humans and focus on what he does to the Dalish. First, he perpetrated a fraud that basically mocked their most sacred beliefs about elven immortality. He led them to believe their (racist) views on isolation were justified because of a ritual he concocted. Second, once Witherfang appeared, he effectively let his people continue to suffer rather than do everything in his power (i.e. give up his vengeance) to save them.

That's not exactly caring.

 

On WItherfang, Zathrian was actively trying to kill the wolf by sending out hunters/the warden to slay it and take its heart: he did care about his clan enough to try and help them, though he was so consumed by hatred and vengeance that slaying the wolf was the only option for him (and his vengeance was exacerbated when the werewolves slew several members of his clan in order to get what they wanted).

 

IIRC, he wasn't personally perpetuating the idea that he was becoming immortal - perhaps he encouraged it to cover up his blood magic ritual but I think that was members of the clan coming to their own conclusions about him.

 

Regardless, he's hardly the morally black sociopath that some people like to see him as: he was probably once a good person driven by grief and anger into doing morally repugnant things, and even at the time we meet him, he has many redeeming characteristics such as the kindness he shows to Lanaya, Aneirin and the clan and his eventual recognition that he needed to sacrifice himself to undo his past mistakes.

[LOLandStuff]

You forgot to mention how the werewolves tried contacting Zathrian several times to end the curse and he was all lol nope. He just ignored them and let his people suffer.

[Master Warder Z_]

Regardless, he's hardly the morally black sociopath that some people like to see him as: he was probably once a good person driven by grief and anger into doing morally repugnant things, and even at the time we meet him, he has many redeeming characteristics such as the kindness he shows to Lanaya, Aneirin and the clan and his eventual recognition that he needed to sacrifice himself to undo his past mistakes.

 

He was an uppity, intolerant racist mass murderer.

 

._.

 

Those are facts.

 

Oh sure lets call subjecting generation after generation to the influence of a demonic curse for basically what amounts to as "kicks" as a repugnant act and leave at that.

 

And then when you actually call him out on his bullshit he proclaims never, never, never in a very childish manner.

 

Honestly all his little blood ritual did was give him enough time to stew in the sepsis of his own brain.