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[Rekkampum]

The qunari couldn't even beat the tevinters. There's something just there, keeping the empire alive more or less.

 

That elvhen magic they hoarded.

[Nelyafinwe]

That elvhen magic they hoarded.

That or something in the farthest deepest, darkest places under the empire where even gods should fear to tread, nor any dark spawn can be found. Beware.

[Uccio]

From what we know there seem to be three major military powers in Thedas: Tevinter, Nevarra and Orlais. And then there are Qunari. Tevinter and Qunari are probably a bit stronger than the Orlais and Nevarra pair, so if we "vanished" Qunari, Tevinter would probably be able to beat Nevarra or Orlais. But if either of the two were to find some allies? Or managed to incite some massive slave revolt in Tevinter?

Orlais unwilling to join the alliance wouldn't be a problem. Orlais stabbing the alliance in the back - well, that would be another story. But if Orlais remained neutral? Nevarra + Ferelden + Inquisition + slave revolt + Dalish would crush Tevinter (though they would likely have problems with the capital). The problem is that Orlais is a filthy opportunist so nobody could assume that they would really remain neutral. So were the Qunari to disappear, we would end up with Orlais, Tevinter and Nevarra looking at each other menacingly but unable to really do anything since any of the three trying to seriously go on the offensive would be exposing its back to the third party.

 

If the qunari couldn´t beat the Imperium neither will the combined forces of your awerage countries added with some elves. No way. 

[Caddius]

If the qunari couldn´t beat the Imperium neither will the combined forces of your awerage countries added with some elves. No way. 

Every empire can and does fall. It's just a matter of enough coincidences and opportunists hitting it at once.

I wonder if Tevinter still has the giant civil wars they used to have back in the glory days? Or do they restrict themselves to the magisters assassinating each other? Do the magisters make use of the Army to win influence, or is that seen as being in poor taste, and would lead to backlash, considering the endless Qunari conflicts?

While Tevinter has weathered Exalted Marches before, that was a few centuries ago. I'm leaning on Tevinter having grown stronger in the past few decades, just enough to be threatening enough that Celene wanted to get Ferelden as an ally against it and Nevarra.

Regardless, if the entirety of a world was set against, Tevinter would fall, eventually. Even if they won the first war, which I wouldn't put past them, the sheer loss of resources would lead to a decline, as the original Imperium did after the combination of civil wars, the First Blight, and Andraste's uprising.

I can very easily picture Tevinter slowly falling into a full Byzantine decline. Dwindling to lonely Minrathous until eventually magic or technology advances enough that a conqueror sees fit to break through the walls and end one of the oldest civilizations in Thedas.

 

So moving back onto elfiness: What are everyone's thoughts on blood magic in Arlathan?

Solas claims that blood magic reduces the ability to enter the Fade.

Blood magic is used in Jowan's ritual to enter the Fade in Origins.

The Seven Magisters used blood magic and lyrium en masse to enter the Fade physically.

Blood magic is often involved in ripping open the Veil and demonology.

One of the claims for blood magic's origin is the Tevinter Imperium interrogating captured elves, and using that knowledge to 'sink Arlathan beneath the earth'. Apparently the truth is more complicated than that.

Other sources claimed are: Dumat teaching it to Thalsian, a High Priest of the Neromenian tribes. Notably this is a few centuries after the Old Gods are said to have taught the Neromenians magic in general. And the Forbidden Ones, including our lovely Imshael.

The elves among the First Grey Wardens are said to have contributed their knowledge of Arlathan to create the Joining. Tevinter mages contributed knowledge as well. The Joining Ritual involves lyrium, darkspawn blood, Archdemon blood, and mages entering the Fade. 

Banter between Solas and Dorian really emphasizes just how much of Arlathan's culture and magical practices the Tevinter Imperium stole and pretended was their own creation. This includes foci like the Orb of Destruction, apparently used by the Neromenian Dreamers that were the predecessors of the Magisterium.

[Eliastion]

Tevinter didn't grow stronger in recent decades. Tevinter is on decline, trying to act cool but it can't even keep its won borders safe, their glorious capital is full of refugees...

Frankly it seems like Qunari just don't really want to go for the final push and are content with bleeding them slowly. Smart move, perhaps as a full-scale assault would still mean great losses for them and would likely bring a response from suddenly threatened South.

 

As for Blood Magic, I wouldn't be all that surprised if it was really as old as magic itself. The idea of linking magic and life itself seems to appear a lot, blood magic being just application of this link by directly converting lifeforce to magic. Though even normal magic kinda works this way - that's why casting spells is straining. I personally think that mana being almost interchengable with stamina - while it's obviously just a game mechanic - happens to reflect a little bit of more universal truth But with blood magic you apparently more rely on raw power while with normal magic you more rely on the Fade to fuel your spells... (that's the only sensible explanation I would have for BM interfering with ability to enter Fade - you just learn to rely on physical world more and those are bad habits for a Dreamer )

Which leads to an interesting lore  problem - would it be possible to train a child with no magical talent to become a blood mage? Or at least something like Templars but with powers based on their own blood rather than Lyrium (or some special blood as is the case for Reavers)? 

[Uccio]

Depends on whether those elves have some of their gods backing them.

 

That would be the oddball possibility true.

[TK514]

Depends on whether those elves have some of their gods backing them.

 

If they're all like Solas, the Qunari can just sit back and watch the elven gods bad decision themselves to death.

[Red of Rivia]

That would be the oddball possibility true.

If Qunaris continue to deny magic and evolve their technology, I do not doubt that in a very distant future the Qunari may end the Imperium. However, it will be equal to the Soviet Union after their own empire will fall because of this system of government. Theories aside, if the next is set in Tevinter, we will see what is the extent of such conflict and including the participation of the elves.

[Eliastion]

If Qunaris continue to deny magic and evolve their technology, I do not doubt that in a very distant future the Qunari may end the Imperium. (...)

I think it depends. We don't know much about how magic really works - if its advancement isn't somehow inherently impossible now, Qunari might not have the advantage in long run any more than they have in short run. The question is whether there is a serious military research going on in Tevinter or not. Basically, while magic is supposedly on the decline, there are old artifacts that still work - which means their effects could possibly be re-created. And the old magic that works includes working teleportation system. Re-creating this might be out of human reach in any foreseeable future but this kinda shows the potential and we seem to have some magic (Although admittedly difficult to cast) that would be really battle-changing. Imagine if they found a way to "pre-cast" an effect of magnitude comparable to the Storm of the Century so that it could be used by less skilled mages.

Or even perhaps it would be possible to create some magical artifact usable by non-magicians too? Imagine, say, arrows with fireball-like effect and hand them to a handful selected archers as artillery support for your troops.

 

Basically, while magic in Thedas has declined (as well as Technology, when you think of it) there seems to be development potential in it that can be - and possibly is - unlocked by necessity created by Qunari war. The fact that magic isn't technology doesn't mean it's static - there is as much room for innovation as there is withing technology. And we know for sure that there are great and terrible things magic can achieve. And (with a little bit of enchanting on the side) it's not hard-limited in application by having enough magicians.

[Uccio]

If Qunaris continue to deny magic and evolve their technology, I do not doubt that in a very distant future the Qunari may end the Imperium. However, it will be equal to the Soviet Union after their own empire will fall because of this system of government. Theories aside, if the next is set in Tevinter, we will see what is the extent of such conflict and including the participation of the elves.

 

It can go either way. Tevinter can shape up and come up with even more impressive magic crushing the cursed oxmen.

[Rekkampum]

If Qunaris continue to deny magic and evolve their technology, I do not doubt that in a very distant future the Qunari may end the Imperium. However, it will be equal to the Soviet Union after their own empire will fall because of this system of government. Theories aside, if the next is set in Tevinter, we will see what is the extent of such conflict and including the participation of the elves.

 

Their society is a meritocracy and not similar to the Soviet Union at all.

[Uccio]

Well Alexius was working on time magic so... who knows, maybe someone will come up with something even more fabulous.

[Red of Rivia]

 

Their society is a meritocracy and not similar to the Soviet Union at all.

Figure of speech, but we know that will not last long.

Well Alexius was working on time magic so... who knows, maybe someone will come up with something even more fabulous.

Hm, yes, but no one knows for sure if it was time travel, remember the doubts of Solas? I would consider. But no doubt they get something new, but still, I believe that magic has its limits.

[Eliastion]

(...)
Hm, yes, but no one knows for sure if it was time travel, remember the doubts of Solas? I would consider. But no doubt they get something new, but still, I believe that magic has its limits.

It likely has some, but things like teleportation (Eluvians), tactical nuclear warheads (explosions like the one at Summit) and creation of neurally integrated cybernetic augmentation (golems) seem to lie within those limits. With some refinemet, "magical" means (spells and enchanting) seem to be perfectly capable of keeping up with modern and SF-grade technology. Obviously, much of those things is far beyond reach of contemporary Thedosians, but all those things still seem to be possible, seeing as they do work in modern-day Thedas - even though in most cases any know-how and underlying theory has been lost.

So, while I do believe there are limits to magic, it's about as binding a statement as "there are limits to technology" in some post-apo setting where you keep stumbling upon teleporters and still-working mechas

[Red of Rivia]

It likely has some, but things like teleportation (Eluvians), tactical nuclear warheads (explosions like the one at Summit) and creation of neurally integrated cybernetic augmentation (golems) seem to lie within those limits. With some refinemet, "magical" means (spells and enchanting) seem to be perfectly capable of keeping up with modern and SF-grade technology. Obviously, much of those things is far beyond reach of contemporary Thedosians, but all those things still seem to be possible, seeing as they do work in modern-day Thedas - even though in most cases any know-how and underlying theory has been lost.

So, while I do believe there are limits to magic, it's about as binding a statement as "there are limits to technology" in some post-apo setting where you keep stumbling upon teleporters and still-working mechas

Sorry, I'm Russian , I did not understand what you mean, can you explain again just a little simpler? 

[Eliastion]

Sorry, I'm Russian , I did not understand what you mean, can you explain again just a little simpler? 

We know that magic in Thedas allows (since we've seen those things happen):
- teleportation (that's what Eluvians do, with a bit of dimensional travel too)
- huge explosions (like the in the Summit, comparable to a small nuke, I think)
- outfitting a person with an "armor" integrated with their body that provides extra strength along with protection, pretty much an artificial body (that's what golems are)
Those are some amazing feats, ones that would need technology that generally is either modern (for us) or even happens only in science-fiction settings. Such magic is (usually) beyond reach of normal mages/dwarves, but - as we are shown - it still works which means that it COULD be re-created at some point.

Basically, while technological advancement can make Qunari more powerful, it doesn't imply that the rest of the world will stand in place unless they turn to technology. Qunari could advance to modern firearms (complete with modern artillery and air support) and yet magic - with appropriate amount of magical research added - could remain a perfectly viable alternative. Advancing technology doesn't automatically give you an edge over a "magical" enemy - because magic can advance as well.

Though, to be fair, I don't think either of the sides would be likely to completely ignore the "incompatible" ideas. After all if you can put a powerful rune into your bow, why not into an AK-47 equivalent. And if you can make AK-47 equivalent, why not upgrade it with a rune that stops it from overheating and makes it more precise.

[Heimdall]

We know that magic in Thedas allows (since we've seen those things happen):
- teleportation (that's what Eluvians do, with a bit of dimensional travel too)

Eh, more like traveling through an intermediary dimension to reach a different point in the original dimension. Like hyperspace in nay number of scifi settings.

- huge explosions (like the in the Summit, comparable to a small nuke, I think)

Okay, the explosion wasn't THAT big.

- outfitting a person with an "armor" integrated with their body that provides extra strength along with protection, pretty much an artificial body (that's what golems are)

I think armor with rune enchantment might be closer to the mark. Golems would be more like Dreadnoughts in Warhammer 40k (Cyborgs permanently grafted into walking tank armor.

[Elfyoth]

So Wycome's rulers can be...

Spoiler

Elves if you make the right decisions in DAI well what it means for the future of elves in there?

[Addai]

^ It's pretty easy for that war table quest line to go the other direction entirely, so I doubt that will be canon, though maybe a Keep choice. If it's the latter then they need to add some acknowledgement in the game. If Lavellan's clan is wiped out, it's too weird that no one even bats an eye about it.

[Fredward]

^ It's pretty easy for that war table quest line to go the other direction entirely, so I doubt that will be canon, though maybe a Keep choice. If it's the latter then they need to add some acknowledgement in the game. If Lavellan's clan is wiped out, it's too weird that no one even bats an eye about it.

 

I think it might be one of the most unforgiving war table quest-chains in the game. One mistake and BAM! everyone's dead.

[LobselVith8]

So Wycome's rulers can be...

Spoiler

Elves if you make the right decisions in DAI well what it means for the future of elves in there?

I would wager, at least locally, the elves would have basic rights (including the right to carry weapons, to be protected against assault under the law, and the right to defend themselves against attacks), and that the elven religion wouldn't be outlawed like it is in the rest of the Andrastian kingdoms (but it's possible that could change with the elven Inquisitor).