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It's just ... boring. Why, BioWare? This isn't you.


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#326
Elhanan

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The cinematic conversations I'm asking for wouldn't detract from the combat or exploration. They'd enhance it by giving it relevance, value and heart.
 
They'd only last a couple of minutes! And if you didn't want to play them they'd be skippable (as they've always been).

That isn't much to ask from a BioWare game, of all things. 
 
P.S. LOL. I can't believe I'm arguing for the inclusion of something that's been a staple in BioWare games for more than a decade, like it's some huge, controversial thing.


It is controversial for many. It became increasingly intrusive over time, esp when one could not escape them due to some interrupt, or would choose dialogue for the character that appeared to depart from the established character. But these folks can speak better for themselves. Personally, prefer to play a game than watch a film.

It also seems to increase the cost of production quite a bit; a factor for SWTOR and other titles with VO's.

#327
Il Divo

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The cinematic conversations I'm asking for wouldn't detract from the combat or exploration. They'd enhance it by giving it relevance, value and heart.

 

They'd only last a couple of minutes! And if you didn't want to play them they'd be skippable (as they've always been).

That isn't much to ask from a BioWare game, of all things. 

 

P.S. LOL. I can't believe I'm arguing for the inclusion of something that's been a staple in BioWare games for more than a decade, like it's some huge, controversial thing.

Next people are going to get upset because I want to shoot stuff in Call of Duty, or because I want to climb walls in Uncharted.

P.P.S. I ... don't play Call of Duty. 

 

The problem is that a couple minutes of cut-scenes actually represents a huge investment of resources, at least judging by Bioware's statements in regards to why the Extended Cut required so much effort for so little output.

 

Bioware's emphasis on cinematic conversations really took off with ME2. Before that, the game would just zoom in on the talking character's head for a bit. The current hybrid system (from my perspective) seems a way for Bioware to maximize their use of cut-scenes, while still allowing the less important dialogue to take up fewer resources. Not that I think there's anything wrong with your goal, but it's not simple as just taking a few more minutes to adapt everything into cinematics.  



#328
Regan_Cousland

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It is controversial for many. [Cinematic conversations and cutscenes] became increasingly intrusive over time, esp when one could not escape them due to some interrupt, or would choose dialogue for the character that appeared to depart from the established character. But these folks can speak better for themselves.

 

Personally, prefer to play a game than watch a film.

 

If a thirty-minute fighting quest includes two, skippable, minute-long cutscenes, how on earth are those cutscenes intrusive?

If the player can't tolerate the inconvenience of pressing the skip button ten times, then he should not be playing BioWare games.

 

He shouldn't be in the same room as them. lol



#329
Elhanan

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If a thirty-minute fighting quest includes two, skippable, minute-long cutscenes, how on earth are those cutscenes intrusive?

If the player can't tolerate the inconvenience of pressing the skip button ten times, then he should not be playing BioWare games.
 
He shouldn't be in the same room as them. lol


And as mentioned, the very same could be said of those requiring them. Why spend zots on things that are going to be skipped?

#330
durengo

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about the boring exploring:

 

many people wanted a open world into dai.a open world mean always that you must explore and that the journey be long.

personal i enjoy it .. i like to ride with the own horse around.. i'm a explorer  ... i'm a scout.

 

i like to get surprised about all what can be found in the wildness.

it's awesome to find mystical ruins (or a camp or a little village or a fortress) where you never expect to find something.

i love to explore the nature...like to find a river..or a hidden cave... a beautiful valley ..wonderful flowers ..or just a young cute hare into a bush.

 

whatever you can find it will surprise you ...because it is unknown until you find it.

it's not so simple as  to walk from point a to point  b and back.

 

to explore anything is a own adventure .that belongs to a true adventurer


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#331
AlanC9

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That makes for a less fun game, I think.
I would rather not know.


Yeah, I can see that. It's actually sort of odd for Bio to go that route, since the narrative genres they are -- copying? translating to CRPG form? paying homage to? -- typically don't give the protagonist that much knowledge and control over what happens next. I think it's an artifact of the way they implemented nonlinearity in those games.

#332
Dinkledorf

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And as mentioned, the very same could be said of those requiring them. Why spend zots on things that are going to be skipped?

Why spend "zots" (is that a word?) on huge mostly empty with not much to do areas (subjectively speaking of course)? Clearly not everybody was/is skipping them but at least the option is there that appeases both sects of players, now the option is not there.  I would personally rather see them spend a bit more "zots" on that and less on the empty world and thus achieve what I believe would be a better balance.

 

I agree with the OP, DAI does not "feel" right, complete, whatever at least for my personal expectation of a DA (or even Bioware) game.  

 

And to a previous mention a page or two above, yes, the spawning issue is real, I notice it every time I open a save game that's out in the "world" and get to pick the exact same resources and fight almost the same enemies again that were picked and or killed what in actual game time was a mere minutes ago.  That does break whatever immersion there was to begin with, for me.


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#333
Regan_Cousland

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I feel like Obi-Wan Kenobi talking to a bunch of Dark Side-bound Anakin Skywalkers sometimes. lol

 

"Anakin, filler quests are evil."

"From my point of view, the story is evil."

"Well then you are lost!"

 


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#334
AlanC9

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Why spend "zots" (is that a word?) on huge mostly empty with not much to do areas (subjectively speaking of course)?.


IIRC "zot" is something Gaider came up with a few years ago. We needed a unit of measure for how much work goes into a feature for our hypothetical game design threads.

#335
dreamgazer

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"Zot" is business school nomenclature. It gets tossed around a lot in management classes.

#336
Lee T

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As one that likes and enjoys both Skyrim and DAI, there seems to be something varied in the equation; the Player, and not Bioware. No failure; simply a differing opinion.

Letting Bioware out of this equation is very generous.

All I can say is that for everything that I liked in previous Bioware games and Bethesda games, I find DAI sorely wanting.

That they failed to capture what I like about open ended, open world games, that's a bummer. That they failed to keep what I like about their games, now that is very weird. Even the Last series of games that disapointed me I still played them at least once. With DAI I almost have to force myself to plow through, that's not something that I expect from a game let alone a Bioware game.

As far as I'm concerned they tried a jack of all trade and mastered none.

Considering the number of studio who at least once made a CRPG I liked, I'm gonna try hope, again (after four miss in a row that's bordering on the insane). I'm gonna chalk it up to trying to bite more than they could chew, new technology, first open world game, first try at emulating what they liked in Skyrim, first try at emulating what they like in Ubisoft game, first try at too much of stuff.

I'll hope that by next game they'll be in a safer place and finally make a game we can all enjoy, like they did so many times... So many years ago.
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#337
Dinkledorf

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IIRC "zot" is something Gaider came up with a few years ago. We needed a unit of measure for how much work goes into a feature for our hypothetical game design threads.

 

 

"Zot" is business school nomenclature. It gets tossed around a lot in management classes.

Ahh, thank you.  Need zots to make widgets.


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#338
Derrame

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Two questions for the people reading and posting here: how many times have you completed the game? do you plan getting the dlc's?



#339
Realmzmaster

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BioWare themselves stated that they were "aggressively investigating Skyrim" while creating Inquisition. 

BioWare might have drawn elements from Baldur's Gate, but I believe making Inquisition more like Skyrim was their greater goal (successful or not).


 

 

I have both games sitting on my hard drive and I can compare them to each other side by side. DAI takes a lot of the design elements of BG1. Far more than any elements from Skyrim. The one point missing is the random encounters when moving from one area to another or fast traveling  that happen in BG1.

 

Most of the elements that posters have been talking about DAI taking from Skyrim were staples of many of the earlier cRPG series like Wizardry, Ultima, Bard's Tale and Might & Magic.



#340
Dinkledorf

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@Derrame

 

Answers:

 

1. Have not finished it once yet, about 15 maybe 20 hours in.  I can't seem to get into it, that coupled with the fact that its necessary to hold the right mouse (all the time) to move the camera hampers my ability to play for more than an hour or so at a time, tops.  Its quite uncomfortable for me, I have a touch of arthritis.  

2. Quite unlikely.  I doubt I will finish this game as is.


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#341
Regan_Cousland

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Two questions for the people reading and posting here: how many times have you completed the game? do you plan getting the dlc's?

 

1. Inquisition is the first BioWare game that I've struggled to complete once. The game's tedium can reach such an extreme that it feels like torture. 

 

By contrast, I played the masterpiece that is Mass Effect 2 more times than any psychologically healthy adult should play any game. lol

I'd even start new ME2 playthroughs on the same day that I finished a playthrough, it was so addictive. 

 

 

2. I'll consider purchasing story-based DLC if the trailer impresses me.


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#342
Realmzmaster

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Two questions for the people reading and posting here: how many times have you completed the game? do you plan getting the dlc's?

 

Finished one complete playthrough siding with the mages. First playthrough clocked in at 254 hours. I am working on the second siding with the templars and  will probably be doing a third playthrough. Will purchase the dlc's


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#343
dreamgazer

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Two questions for the people reading and posting here: how many times have you completed the game? do you plan getting the dlc's?


Twice, taking a long break before the third. Yes to the DLCs.
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#344
Lee T

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Two questions for the people reading and posting here: how many times have you completed the game? do you plan getting the dlc's?


I have yet to finish it and I doubt I'll get the DLCs (Both because i would have to finish the game first which remains a mystery, and because not buying the DLC is the only way to "vote with your wallet" when you already bought the game).
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#345
Suhiira

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Yeah, during my first play thru there were many times I was 3/4ths bored grinding the pointless side quests because I had no clue if any on them would lead to anything important/interesting ... they didn't.

 

On subsequent play thrus I just skip most of them.

 

DA:I feels far more like an asian MMO, with repetitive respawns, repetitive side quests, 95% of the loot isn't worth picking up - I'd rather have just gotten money and not had to deal with the junk filling my inventory and having to sell it - little tactical combat value (I don't count NPCs having twice the movement speed, 3-5 time the HPs of PCs, thus requiring micromanagement to survive as "tactical").


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#346
AlanC9

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"Zot" is business school nomenclature. It gets tossed around a lot in management classes.


Ah. Thanks. I guess DG was just popularizing it, maybe? Anyway, we needed the term.
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#347
Sylvius the Mad

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Need zots to make widgets.

Exactly.  If widgets are unspecified products, zots are unspecified resources.



#348
Realmzmaster

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the bioware that made DA:I is not the same group  that made masterpieces like ME and ME2 and DA:O, sad but true

 

Not quite true, most of the principals that made the games you listed also made DAI. In fact Mark Darrah was the Executive producer for both DAO, DA2,  DAI and programmer for BG1 and BG2. David Gaider was lead writer for all three DA's and also a writer/programmer for BG2 and NWN. Most (if not all) of the writers for all three DA's are the same.

 

Mike Laidlaw was a writer for ME1 and one of the lead designers for DAO along with Jade Empire. Patrick Weekes was a writer for  ME1, ME2 and senior writer for ME3 along with Casey Hudson as producer for all three ME's.

 

Read the credits for all the games. Most of the principals as I said are still with Bioware.


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#349
Archerwarden

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I find it very hard to enjoy Inquisition (and not for a lack of trying, trust me). There's just too much filler and aimless wandering.

The game has many little flaws, most forgiveable -- but this one is almost a deal breaker.

Nobody enters a fantasy world to experience boredom.

The game is at least eighty percent walking around big, pretty environments doing dull tasks which have no emotive power and no relevance to the story.

The scenarios presented on the War Table seem far more intriguing than collecting shards or ram meat. Let me play those!

The story missions are great -- (especially the attack on Haven; so epic!) -- but there's not enough of them. Or rather, they're not integrated well enough into the rest of the game. They do nothing to make the side-quests feel worthwhile.

The game shouldn't make me feel lonely and depressed until I have enough Power or XP to progress to the next story mission.

Dragon Age: Origins was designed in such a way that it felt like one giant story mission. Almost everything you did felt critical to the success of the Grey Wardens' quest to unite the land.

The Deep Roads, for example, were endless, but at least we were there for a very good reason -- to find a Paragon, settle a civil war, and in so doing secure dwarven allies to defeat the Blight. That's the kind of motivation that makes grinding fun.

Why am I killing dozens of undead in the Fallow Mire? Or dozens of bandits in some desert? Why am I killing angry wolves and bears as I travel from one point of no interest to another point of no interest?

Because the Inquisition's directive is to "restore order" to the land? Wow, that's inspiring.  <_< 

Let Cullen's and Leliana's minions do that rubbish. 

In short, keep your Skyrim out of my Dragon Age, please. 

I love the big, beautiful environments BioWare crafted. Major kudos to the art team.

It's just so sad that there's nothing very fun to do in them. 

Ever heard the writers' saying, "Murder your darlings"? Well, those environments are your darlings; if they don't significantly enhance the story or the player's enjoyment, they should be eliminated and replaced with content that's fun to play.

The kind of content that pre-DA2 BioWare was always known and respected for.

Regan_Cousland,
I agree with you and what you've posted here.

The environments are beautiful and the companion quests are very well done but too short. I wanted more interaction, more quests with all the companions.

But the heart and soul is missing and in place of an immersive, emotional story we have a lot of chore quests or meaningless nothings.

I agree, the emotional impact from talking to quest givers and finding out why and how and what that particular quest has to do with the quest giver and the story as a whole is missing. The cut scenes and close ups add to that immersive, I am in the story feel as in I am the Warden or I am Hawke and this my world. For instance, in Redcliffe, talking to the Mayor you get two different dialog cut scenes if you bring Alistair or Zevran. Same with talking to Bann Teagon, Kaitlain, the Bar owner the dwarf.

Remember the Alienage and the emotional impact of walking around seeing first hand the poverty, squalor, fear, hopelessness then talking to Solis, Shianni, Ser Otto, the beggar woman, listening to the crowd talk about their disappearing loved ones. Seeing then freeing them. Then talking to the Elven slaver and the ending of the quest and the feeling of killing that last slaver and feeing and talking to the leader?. All that busyness of finding out who is missing why and how. All that story and emotions for 2 quests.

Compare that to DAI and the quest to free the slaves from the Red Templers. Did I talk to anyone who lost a loved one? Talk to an escaped slave? Find out from a person when talking to them why it was happening? Nope. Just went in and hacked and slashed killed the slavers, flicked the lock and set them free. Quest done on to the next.

So yes, I missed the story that was the entire game.

I do understand what they were doing with as Mr. Darrah said in an interview that they wanted to attract the 20 mill Skyrim players and 1st time RPG players. Also that a dev did say they were immensely inspired by Skyrim. But I don't think they understand what makes Skyrim a hit and what made DAO so great either.

In Skyrim there was so much to do - redoubts, dungeons, forts, dragons, thalmors, quests and quests, potions, harvesting, selling, crafting etc. Every inch was put to good use - so much to slack and hash and then the modders. My oh my the modders turned that game into that great game. But DAI is a poor mans Skyrim and nowhere near outstanding as DAO.

Bioware was always about the story, it had really fun combat, tactics, inventory, monetary, potions and graphics but always the immersive, epic, emotional story.

I hope you are right and can convince Bioware to go back to what made DAO great but I have not that hope.

Just wanted to support you :)
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#350
Dread-Reaper

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Two questions for the people reading and posting here: how many times have you completed the game? do you plan getting the dlc's?

Completed one playthrough at 58hrs, wanted to do a second but was bored out of my mind. No intention of buying any DLCs for this game.


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