1664 réponses à ce sujet

[durengo]

 

 

And you are still missing my point. It is not about what they call you. It is about what kind of character you chose to play. In DA:O you can play an evil person, that still ends up stopping the blight. In DA:I you play a goodguy. No choice in it.

yep in dai you can only play the good guy and also in da2 .. dont forget da2! and i would also like to play the evil one in dai but that can't happen.. true.

so if you wanna say that you like dao more then da 2 and dai then it is ok.

 

but you missed all the time my point...

 

the large world from dai and the many different reasons to travel arround .. story based... main goal focused ..and also the travel part it not belong to the main goal but belongs to the matter that we play a hero. a travel with horse or not.

[Rawgrim]

yep in dai you can only play the good guy and also in da2 .. dont forget da2! and i would also like to play the evil one in dai but that can't happen.. true.

so if you wanna say that you like dao more then da 2 and dai then it is ok.

 

but you missed all the time my point...

 

the large world from dai and the many different reasons to travel arround .. story based... main goal focused ..and also not belong to the main goal. on horse or not.

 

No there are almost no reason for all the walking in DA:I other than having a look at the lovely gameworld.

 

The game is 90 percent fetch quests that has zero story, and almost no dialogue to them. They aren't tied to the main story in any way either. The main story takes about 10 hours to finish. That is very very short. Picking flowers and finding letters on the ground is not story based. Those are chores, not quests.

[durengo]

No there are almost no reason for all the walking in DA:I other than having a look at the lovely gameworld.

 

 

if you wanna go back to this topic and my argumentations why the travel .. the journey is neccessary then look all the pages back.. i don't repeat myself again since you are nothing else as a troll who ignores 90 percent of my answers.

 

we are done now

[Rawgrim]

if you wanna go back to this topic and my argumentations why the travel .. the journey is neccessary then look all the pages back.. i don't repeat myself again since you are nothing else as a troll who ignores 90 percent of my answers.

 

we are done now

 

I get it. Because you walk you are a hero...You should watch a movie called The Running Man. He doesn't just walk, he runs! Twice as heroic.

[durengo]

I get it. Because you walk you are a hero...You should watch a movie called The Running Man. He doesn't just walk, he runs! Twice as heroic.

i just let you know that the witcher wild hunt will be also only about walking and nothing else as walking...ohh and riding of course...you shouldnt buy or play it. it will dissapoint you because of the huge open world.i will enjoy it.

 

maybe you try a telltale game??? and about a movie or tv show..you should  look dynasty or dallas.. 90 percent of the action happens in little rooms and you can see many talking heads.

[Rawgrim]

i just let you know that the witcher wild hunt will be also only about walking and nothing else as walking...ohh and riding of course...you shouldnt buy or play it. it will dissapoint you because of the huge open world.i will enjoy it.

 

maybe you try a telltale game??? and about a movie.. look dynastie .. 90 percent of the action happens in little rooms.

 

What makes you think I don't like huge open worlds? It is possible to combine huge open worlds with the option of creating your own character, and have lots of story based quests, you know.

 

Quite a fan of making assumptions, aren't you?

[Il Divo]

Star Wars is very very lined up for a Good or Evil victory, though. Its at the very core of the franchise.

 

 

Sure, but core to the franchise and non-sensical story-telling are not inherently related. Not to mention, we've had Star Wars games which follow a set protagonist in the past. 

 

In conception, playing a Dark Side character means the player has to ignore about a million and one different plot holes in the main narrative, all due to the fact that you function as a blatant murdering pyschopath, which none of the Jedi really make note of. All this gets from your (mostly good aligned) party is "Hey, you shouldn't give in to the Dark Side". It's these kinds of problems that are quite common in role-playing games involving dark-side aligned characters. 

 

DA:I seems to have mostly 1 approach to things, though. You get zero setbacks for making a "wrong" choice.  And I certainly haven't found diferent approaches for the many fetch quests in the game. There really just is one way to pick flowers for people.

 

 

Fetch quests? Probably not. The player is essentially confined along one path, unfortunately, which does suck. But to someone claiming that your character is effectively an npc, I would ask them to show me how two characters are the same when they can distinguish between the Mages and Templars, romancing companions, their position on the Maker, encouraging Leliana to be more ruthless, etc. 

 

If we're approaching "npc" levels on this spectrum, I would think none of this (and more) should possible. 

[Rawgrim]

Sure, but core to the franchise and non-sensical story-telling are not inherently related. Not to mention, we've had Star Wars games which follow a set protagonist in the past. 

 

In conception, playing a Dark Side character means the player has to ignore about a million and one different plot holes in the main narrative, all due to the fact that you function as a blatant murdering pyschopath, which none of the Jedi really make note of. All this gets from your (mostly good aligned) party is "Hey, you shouldn't give in to the Dark Side". It's these kinds of problems that are quite common in role-playing games involving dark-side aligned characters. 

 

 

Fetch quests? Probably not. The player is essentially confined along one path, unfortunately, which does suck. But to someone claiming that your character is effectively an npc, I would ask them to show me how two characters are the same when they can distinguish between the Mages and Templars, romancing companions, their position on the Maker, encouraging Leliana to be more ruthless, etc. 

 

If we're approaching "npc" levels on this spectrum, I would think none of this (and more) should possible. 

 

Yeah but I think Kotor was the first SW rpg? The rest were mostly action games, I think. Correct me if I am wrong, though.

 

I see your point. But when the game takes control of my character to this extent, I end up thinking of him as an NPC. You have that infamous giggling fit the inquisitor gets when romancing Cassandra, and you also have that scene where the inquisitor promotes that templar fellow. The player has no say in it, and it is kind of a big deal.

[durengo]

this is different then....

. I like a large open-world RPG if it includes at least some compelling, BioWare-style storytelling, and not just filler quests. 
 

 

 

 

this:

. There's just too much filler and aimless wandering.

 

 

filler quests or not a huge world mean always also aimless wandering.about the difference between aimless wandering and exploring (is it aimless to be able to explore?)  you can read many comments frome me on the last 10 pages of this topic.

 

a huge world is and will be a huge world even if all quests would be story relevant and based.the travel through this huge world will be always a long walk.

 

iam not a developer..i have no clue how to make a rpg with a huge world .. where every step you make bring to you a new story relevant quest.dai has more then 100 hours playtime.. i played till now 205 hours long...how many playtime do it need to play a open world rpg game with a only story driven quest system?

 

by the way how long will be the story then? and how will you be able to fill a huge world only with quests they belong to the main goal of the game?

[Rawgrim]

this is different then....

 

 

 

this:

 

filler quests or not a huge world mean always also aimless wandering.about the difference between aimless wandering and exploring (is it aimless to be able to explore?)  you can read many comments frome me on the last 10 pages of this topic.

 

a huge world is and will be a huge world even if all quests would be story relevant and based.the travel through this huge would will be always a long walk.

 

iam not a developer..i have no clue how to make a rpg with a huge world .. where every step you make bring to you a new story relevant quest.dai has more then 100 hours playtime.. i played till now 205 hours long...how many playtime do it need to play a open world rpg game with a only story driven quest system?

 

by the way how long will be the story then? and how will you be able to fill a huge world only with quests they belong to the main goal of the game?

 

I am a developer, actually. Made about 100 quests last year. I make stuff for pen and paper rpgs, though. Easier to implement that stuff than in video games, though. No programming involved. No possible bugs either.

[durengo]

I am a developer, actually. Made about 100 quests last year. I make stuff for pen and paper rpgs, though. Easier to implement that stuff than in video games, though. No programming involved. No possible bugs either.

ok and? if you dont have the expierence to make such a game like dai and if you even don't know how to programming a video game then we shouldnt talk about it ..

 

and a pen and paper game is very different then a complex rpg like skyrim or dai.

 

by the way i have also a pen and paper game at home.. and i also write storys for it  with quests and so on.. but that doesn't make me to a proffessional developer.

[Rawgrim]

ok and? if you dont have the expierence to make such a game like dai and if you even don't know how to programming a video game then we shouldnt talk about it ..

 

and a pen and paper game is very different then a complex rpg.

 

Uhm....what? Making quests have to do with writing. Its like writing lots of stories.

 

Quests are the topic of the discussion, you know.

 

You can be part of an rpg development team without having the slightest clue about what an rpg even is, when you make one for consoles or the PC. Some of the team members are just great at making graphics, and that is their only job. I doubt David Gaider (the lead writer) made the animations for the game, or wrote the music for it. Do you?

 

Pen and Paper is more complex than video games, when it comes to the combat system, the game rules, and whatever else. The basic starter pack for d&d, for example, are three rulebooks. About 1000 pages all in all. 8 races, 10 classes, about 300 spells, 50 weapon types, about 250 feats (same as abilities really) and about 30 skills. Its impossible to implement all that perfectly into a video game. Even Baldur's Gate left a lot of it out. NWN2, and Temple of Elemental Evil were the ones that came closest to it, I think.

[Archerwarden]

But you see that is a matter of opinion. I believe that Bioware has finally seen the error of their ways and that DAI is a foot in the right direction back to the glory days (IMHO) of the BG series.

Yes but Dragon Age is a different series than BG. If they make BG3 in the spirit of BG then that would be one thing.

[durengo]

Uhm....what? Making quests have to do with writing. Its like writing lots of stories.

 

Quests are the topic of the discussion, you know.

 

You can be part of an rpg development team without having the slightest clue about what an rpg even is, when you make one for consoles or the PC. Some of the team members are just great at making graphics, and that is their only job. I doubt David Gaider (the lead writer) made the animations for the game, or wrote the music for it. Do you?

 

Pen and Paper is more complex than video games, when it comes to the combat system, the game rules, and whatever else. The basic starter pack for d&d, for example, are three rulebooks. About 1000 pages all in all. 8 races, 10 classes, about 300 spells, 50 weapon types, about 250 feats (same as abilities really) and about 30 skills. Its impossible to implement all that perfectly into a video game. Even Baldur's Gate left a lot of it out. NWN2, and Temple of Elemental Evil were the ones that came closest to it, I think.

yeah you are the big developer guy... its ok..

but you cant tell me how many hours it would need to convert all your storys into a video game ...how many hours  ..it need to programm all that stuff and then there will be the question if its possible to use all for a game or not... and  the developing of a computer game include the programming is more complex as to write a story for a pen and paper game on paper with a pen.

 

but anyways if you realy love to write own storys then you know that many things you write didn't belongs to a main goal from the heros .that you write about many things they have nothing to do with the main story.

 

like tolkien write much about the nature and clothing into the books and about aimless wandering .. and exploring..so that you can spend hours long to read it...thats a long journey...

but it doesn't belongs to the main goal . this is just to create atmosphere.to make the world feel alive.

 

some filler quest of dai do the same.and true if you need to find a necklace into a quest to give it to a maiden then it doesn't belongs to the main story of dai...like it doesn't belongs to the journey of frodo if tolkien write about the clothing of the elfes.i love tolkien and i love the books.

 

but yeah you are a right .. a good book or game should always ignore everything else and only care about that what realy  matters...the  main goal of the hero.

[Archerwarden]

I read Archerwarden's thoughts. I do not agree with all of them. My experiences with cRPGs dates back to 1979 starting with Akalabeth and Eamon. My perspective and experiences differ from some other posters unless you started playing in the same time period like others on this forum (AlanC9, Sylvius the Mad, Fast Jimmy, IeIdra and some others) even then we have our separate opinions and disagree with each other..
I have no problem with story. I played many an Infocom and Level 9 game. 
 
I started playing Bioware cRPGs in 1998 with Baldur's Gate 1. There were no cinematics, very few cut scenes. Everything happened in-game. Even Neverwinter Nights had very few cut scenes. Cinematics did not occur until DAO,  Knight of the Old Republic and Jade Empire..
 
Many gamers want to credit Brent Knowles with that, but then forget that he was also responsible for the NWN single player campaign which took the party from six to two. The writers still told a good story in NWN with very few cut scenes or cinematics. But I digress.
 
The BG series was able to tell excellent stories having very few cinematics or cut scenes also. I believe that the story should flow naturally with the gameplay. For me cinematics and cut scenes affect the rhythm of the game. YMMV
 
You are correct we will have to agree to disagree.

Yes and NWN and BG are different games, would love it they picked up where those left off.
But DAI is the third in series called Dragon Age. And Dragon Age: Origins had lots of cuts scenes and/or cinematics so asking for or expecting the same in its successor is not too much to ask.

[Archerwarden]

Its supposed to be an rpg, though. Not an interactive hiking trip. Its great to look at, by all means, but it has nothing "real" in it. Just various chores.
 
The Crestwood area being an exception, though. That are was very good. It was tied to the main story, and it had side quests with stories of their own.

Crestwood area was very well done, including the warden quest in the area the ghost and the scene with the 2 lovers.

[AlanC9]

Pen and Paper is more complex than video games, when it comes to the combat system, the game rules, and whatever else. The basic starter pack for d&d, for example, are three rulebooks. About 1000 pages all in all. 8 races, 10 classes, about 300 spells, 50 weapon types, about 250 feats (same as abilities really) and about 30 skills. Its impossible to implement all that perfectly into a video game. Even Baldur's Gate left a lot of it out. NWN2, and Temple of Elemental Evil were the ones that came closest to it, I think.

Note that D&D is on the high end of PnP complexity, though your point's still valid. PnP games that last for a while tend to have feature creep in a way that CRPG series don't.

[Rawgrim]

yeah you are the big developer guy... its ok..

but you cant tell me how many hours it would need to convert all your storys into a video game ...how many hours  ..it need to programm all that stuff and then there will be the question if its possible to use all for a game or not.

 

but anyways if you realy love to write own storys then you know that many things you write didn't belongs to a main goal from the heros .

like tolkien write much about the nature and clothing into the books and about aimless wandering .. and exploring..so that you can spend hours long to read it...thats a long journey...

but it doesn't belongs to the main goal . this is just to create atmosphere.to make the world feel alive.

 

some filler quest of dai do the same.

 

but yeah you are a right .. a good book or game should always ignore everything else and only care about one main goal.

 

Nope. A very small developer. But I do write quests and lore.

 

No clue how many hours it takes to program it, add graphics to it, animate it, or voice act it, no. And oddly enough, it has nothing to do with the subject either. The subject is about adding quests with stories to them. Which Bioware has done plenty in every other title.

 

That bit you are describing is found in the codex. The one you didn't bother to read since you believed The Warden in DA:O saved the world.

 

And no. Tolkien doesn't write about aimless wandering. It is painfully clear, that they hare heading straight for certain destinations. The characters even spend several chapters planning out where to go. And all the info you get there is actually pretty important to the story, and why the people do what they do in the books. Didn't read it, did you?

 

Yes. A good book should stick to the story, and the main goal, yes. It is actually very very vital. Which is why Tolkien did that. Sorry you missed it, though.

 

A roleplaying game doesn't have to stick to the main story too tightly. A roleplaying game puts you, the player, in the driver's seat of your own story. The game may have an ultimate goal of that particular chapter, like the main quest involving the dragons in Skyrim. But around it you get tons of other huge storylines and quests you can play through, to develop your character and actually roleplay.

 

Picking flowers isn't the same as doing the Dark Brotherhood questline.

[Rawgrim]

Crestwood area was very well done, including the warden quest in the area the ghost and the scene with the 2 lovers.

 

Yes. the Crestwood area stands out. I agree. It had several story based quests, and it felt very much alive.

[Rawgrim]

Note that D&D is on the high end of PnP complexity, though your point's still valid. PnP games that last for a while tend to have feature creep in a way that CRPG series don't.

 

Yeah I just used D&D as an example. It is the one I have played recently, so it was freshest in my mind. But there are so many rues and features in most pen and paper rpgs that its just not doable to include everything in a crpg. Pen and Paper will always be more complex, really.

[luism]

What besides the large maps is so much like bg1 ? I'm confused at the constant comparisons by the same couple of posters.

[Regan_Cousland]

This is a reply that I made to a user in a different thread, but I'm going to repost it here because it's more relevant. (I don't make a habit of reposting. First time!)

The user stated that many fans' biggest problem with Dragon Age 2 was that it wasn't open world, and then implied that we're ungrateful, because BioWare very kindly made Dragon Age: Inquisition open world, and we're still moaning.

Here is my response:

 

I'm sorry, but that's not true. Most people's problem with Dragon Age 2 was that it reused the same environments over and over and over again.

 

People wanted questing to take place in more varied environments -- like the environments in Dragon Age: Origins. 

Very few people, by comparison, demanded an open world. The open world was largely BioWare's idea because BioWare chose to compete with Skyrim.

 

And I'm sure that most people who did  support Dragon Age becoming open-world wouldn't have approved of open worlds with such shallow content.

 

So please don't act as though BioWare gave us exactly what we wanted and we're still not happy. They didn't.

[durengo]

 

Picking flowers isn't the same as doing the Dark Brotherhood questline.

in skyrim also exits quests where you have to picking flowers or to find a necklace.so we must'nt talk about that.

 

but anyways frome the big developer (you) to a hobby story writer for a pen and paper game (me).. please a serious answer to this question:

if i write a story then i describe my characters , heros , enemys , innocents and so on more in detail.. i descripe the nature  more in detail ..tolkien do the same.but how did that belongs to a main goal of the story ?? iam sure you didn't bother with such details into the storys you write(because all must belong to the main goal).but i love to do.

 

if you say that all quests into the open world of dai are only uninteressting filler quests because they doesn't belongs to the main story of the game.. are you noticed that some of them tell the player much about thedas? about the history of thedas ? and the history of many peoples? tolkien do the same into his books.it helps you to understand why ... what .. was happend or what happens now and why.some filler quests descripe the different areas in thedas...other quests let you find books about the gods of thedas and again you can get many background informations frome those filler quests.

[luism]

This game desperately needs some dlc love in both single and mp it's novelty has more than worn off with me. If they could Polish the turd that was da 2 with dlc then this game has some hope.

[AlanC9]

What besides the large maps is so much like bg1 ? I'm confused at the constant comparisons by the same couple of posters.

Well, the question of what makes a game "like" another game depends on what you think the distinguishing characteristics of the games are. Large maps are an important way in which DAI and BG1 both resemble each other and differ from other Bio games. Most of the other features they have in common are also in other games.