1664 réponses à ce sujet

[Tremere]

Where did he expressed disapitment about DAI ? changing project within the same company fter ten years of working on the same thing does not express that in any way. I've been working for the same company for longer than that and am I glad that i occupied four different positions keeping my mind fresh. Did he explicitely say anything ?

Again... For the sake of clarity, I'm basing my comments on this article. Sure, it can be interpreted however you wish, but clearly there's an element of disappointment. I'll concede that *maybe* I gave the word "disappointment" more emphasis than I should have (perhaps "dissatifaction" would have been a better choice), but... You be the judge. My opinion is just that.

 

“This is a pretty stressful time for everyone,” Gaider said. “Every cut feels like it’s reducing the overall quality of the game, until there are so many of them you feel like you’re producing a piece of crap—until you remind yourself that every game goes through this, and the alternative is shipping late or not at all.”

 

http://gamebreakingn...utting-content/

[Elhanan]

Again... For the sake of clarity, I'm basing my comments on this article. Sure, it can be interpreted however you wish, but clearly there's an element of disappointment. I'll concede that *maybe* I gave the word "disappointment" more emphasis that I should have, but... You be the judge. My opinion is just that.
 
 
http://gamebreakingn...utting-content/

Writers must feel a great loss, as every word is considered when scribing a character or dialogue; not for the thin-skinned, or those with hearted sleeves.

[Sartoz]

Hence the reason why I liked Item Dupe exploit. There are so many sidequests you need to do to farm EXP and sometimes having that extra push just allowed me to enjoy the game even more. The loot system is just boring compared to the powerful crafts I could make near the end of the game. That's just me though, I can't see myself doing full playthroughs again until an expansion comes along or until I get the Black Emporium because right now, DAI is my least favorite Dragon Age in the franchise and it's not because of the story... it's the gameplay mechanics and the loot system that make me walk away. I could do with multiple fetch quests, just not with items that are so weak that it's just another reason to just use them as cash fodder in the game.

Which is why I use the Cheat Engine to avoid useless grinding.

[DaemionMoadrin]

http://gamebreakingn...utting-content/

 

Quote from the article: Gaider said that it’s not a process fans can really understand. “They’re usually oblivious to what’s going on, harping on what color the sails should be while the hull is rapidly leaking water,” he said. “Which is a strange dissonance from our perspective, let me tell you.”

 

Yup, we're all stupid. Thanks, exactly what I wanted to hear. Unless you're stupid enough to release pre-alpha footage the fans don't even have any chance to talk about features that won't be included, alpha stage means the game is content complete after all. The problem is the huge difference between alpha and release. The DA:I beta must have been a massacre, with elements being cut everywhere.

 

It's no surprise that the game doesn't reflect the original vision anymore.

 

Edit: Stupid site.

[Tremere]

 

Quote from the article: Gaider said that it’s not a process fans can really understand. “They’re usually oblivious to what’s going on, harping on what color the sails should be while the hull is rapidly leaking water,” he said. “Which is a strange dissonance from our perspective, let me tell you.”

 

Yup, we're all stupid. Thanks, exactly what I wanted to hear. Unless you're stupid enough to release pre-alpha footage the fans don't even have any chance to talk about features that won't be included, alpha stage means the game is content complete after all. The problem is the huge difference between alpha and release. The DA:I beta must have been a massacre, with elements being cut everywhere.

 

It's no surprise that the game doesn't reflect the original vision anymore.

Gaider said that it’s not a process fans can really understand. “They’re usually oblivious to what’s going on, harping on what color the sails should be while the hull is rapidly leaking water,” he said. “Which is a strange dissonance from our perspective, let me tell you.” - See more at: http://gamebreakingn...h.xaKXxloK.dpuf

 

Gaider said that it’s not a process fans can really understand. “They’re usually oblivious to what’s going on, harping on what color the sails should be while the hull is rapidly leaking water,” he said. “Which is a strange dissonance from our perspective, let me tell you.” - See more at: http://gamebreakingn...h.xaKXxloK.dpuf

 

*nods* For the most part, you saw what I saw.

[Elhanan]

*nods* For the most part, you saw what I saw.

Considering the thread that was created about the release of early materials and needed cuts, it appears DG was spot on to quite a few.

[AlanC9]

I think that the problem with DA:I is that there really isn't any risk, and without risk.. all those rewards such as the inquisition power are just fairly meaningless.

Take a moment to ponder the implications that a simple timer eating away at the "power" resource could have had. By draining the power resource each time the player travels to a zone or sends agents out on missions a very real risk would have been introduced to the game... and all those +1 power would suddenly have been something that the player cared about.

It would obviously need a lot of balancing and some better ideas, but I don't see any other way to tie all those side activities into the main plot.

Would RPG fans accept such a mechanism? I have no faith in us anymore.

[AlanC9]

Again... For the sake of clarity, I'm basing my comments on this article. Sure, it can be interpreted however you wish, but clearly there's an element of disappointment. I'll concede that *maybe* I gave the word "disappointment" more emphasis that I should have (perhaps "dissatifaction" would have been a better choice), but... You be the judge. My opinion is just that.

I think this is a perverse misreading of the quote. He's talking about the process in general. All game development works like this. Always.

This is mostly the article's fault for not making the context clearer. Pity the original isn't available anymore; fortunately, I read it before he took the Tumblr down.

 

@ DaemionMoadrin: yeah, he's never thought that fans have much of a clue. Not so much through stupidity as through ignorance, though.

[Il Divo]

Would RPG fans accept such a mechanism? I have no faith in us anymore.

 

The problem we also run into with this approach is it would just force players to explore the sandbox even more to accumulate more power to make up for the loss. I'm not sure that really addresses the criticism that DA:I needs more dynamic/interesting content. 

[AlanC9]

The problem we also run into with this approach it would just force players to explore the sandbox even more to accumulate more power to make up for the loss. I'm not sure that really addresses the criticism that DA:I needs more dynamic/interest content. 

 

Oh, yeah, we'd need a lot of redesign to make it work. I'm just not convinced that it's conceptually workable.

[Tremere]

I think this is a perverse misreading of the quote. He's talking about the process in general. All game development works like this. Always.

This is mostly the article's fault for not making the context clearer. Pity the original isn't available anymore; fortunately, I read it before he took the Tumblr down.

 

@ DaemionMoadrin: yeah, he's never thought that fans have much of a clue. Not so much through stupidity as through ignorance, though.

 

Perverse?

 

 

[Regan_Cousland]

If most of us agree that DA:I's greatest shortcoming is its lack of interesting content in relation to the enormity of its environments,  then I propose that the very best DLC that BioWare could release is a story-based expansion, similar to Dragon Age: Awakening, which -- instead of introducing new (and expensive) locales -- makes better and fuller use of the environments that already exist in the game.

 

Perhaps this expansion could revolve around a fascinating mystery that the Inquisition has to solve -- a mystery presented in BioWare's classic, cinematic style, populated with memorable characters, both fair-minded and foul, and which gives us compelling reasons to return to many of the stunning locations that were squandered on shard collecting and Rift-closing in the main campaign.

This expansion could occur after the main game, introducing a brand new conflict and new villains.

Or it could be used to shore up and flesh out the central narrative, transforming Corypheus and his henchmen into the well-developed and worthy adversaries that I'm sure they were intended to be.

 

[Tremere]

If most of us agree that DA:I's greatest shortcoming is its lack of interesting content in relation to the enormity of its environments,  then I propose that the very best DLC that BioWare could release is a story-based expansion, similar to Dragon Age: Awakening, which -- instead of introducing new (and expensive) locales -- makes better and fuller use of the environments that already exist in the game.

 

Perhaps this expansion could revolve around a fascinating mystery that the Inquisition has to solve -- a mystery presented in BioWare's classic, cinematic style, populated with memorable characters, both fair-minded and foul, and which gives us compelling reasons to return to many of the stunning locations that were squandered on shard collecting and Rift-closing in the main campaign.

This expansion could occur after the main game, introducing a brand new conflict and new villains.

Or it could be used to shore up and flesh out the central narrative, transforming Corypheus and his henchmen into the well-developed and worthy adversaries that I'm sure they were intended to be.

 

*nods* Good idea, but I think we know that this will lead to the inevitable, "Why wasn't this in the game from the start?"

[Regan_Cousland]

*nods* Good idea, but I think we know that this will lead to the inevitable, "Why wasn't this in the game from the start?"

 

Very true. The kind of content I described should have been in the game to begin with. We all know that.

Nevertheless, it remains the only kind of DLC content that would tempt me to continue playing the game (and simultaneously reassure me that BioWare haven't abandoned their old identity).

If they release anything that isn't heavily story- and roleplay-focused, then I'm out, because I can get my pure action fix from countless other games. 

[Lee T]

I think this is a perverse misreading of the quote. He's talking about the process in general. All game development works like this. Always.
This is mostly the article's fault for not making the context clearer. Pity the original isn't available anymore; fortunately, I read it before he took the Tumblr down.

@ DaemionMoadrin: yeah, he's never thought that fans have much of a clue. Not so much through stupidity as through ignorance, though.

I work on a completely unrelated business, but one I used to be a fan of before I got through the mirror so to speak. That's the first time I realised that other than the actual professionals people make a lot of assumption and don't even have a clue about the inner workings behind the curtain.

I do not mind this kind of speach from a game developper, because it's true, we don't know jack about the process they're going through.

I imagine macking a game must be an exercise in frustration, bumping head with all the different departments, dreams constantly countered by technical feasability, staff availability, and budget constraints. It's probably harder for the writers since their only limit is their imaginations and how many word they can lay down on the paper, and then things get cut, modified, etc.

Hence why I'm not sure David Gaider's words should be taken as a complaint toward this particular project or as the writer's blues after seeing it's baby gone through the gears of the technical departments.

A friend of mine, who actually work in video game development, but who can't talk to me about anything happening behind the door because of NDA once sent me this :

http://kotaku.com/fi...unti-1687510871

[TBJack]

Quote from the article: Gaider said that it’s not a process fans can really understand. “They’re usually oblivious to what’s going on, harping on what color the sails should be while the hull is rapidly leaking water,” he said. “Which is a strange dissonance from our perspective, let me tell you.”

 

Yup, we're all stupid. Thanks, exactly what I wanted to hear. Unless you're stupid enough to release pre-alpha footage the fans don't even have any chance to talk about features that won't be included, alpha stage means the game is content complete after all. The problem is the huge difference between alpha and release. The DA:I beta must have been a massacre, with elements being cut everywhere.

 

It's no surprise that the game doesn't reflect the original vision anymore.

 

Edit: Stupid site.

 

He never said that we're stupid or that we can't understand it.  He just said that fans don't have the same perspective of the game that devs do.  Which makes sense.  We see the finished product, and judge it based on that, while they watch it get built from the ground up.  Of course things look different to each group.  When he says that we're "oblivious to what's going on" he's referring to the actual work that goes on in the studio, not calling us stupid.

[Lee T]

It's informative, but I think a lot of gamers know the difficulties. They don't need to be condescended to. Like in one of his examples, in just creating an NPC. I know enough what a pain in the ass that just basic rigging and animating is.

A classic bias is imagining that what you know is common knowledge. You did know, good for you, I didn't and many still do not. Hence why many wrong assumptions are made about how easy it is to make a NPC.

[Archerwarden]

If most of us agree that DA:I's greatest shortcoming is its lack of interesting content in relation to the enormity of its environments,  then I propose that the very best DLC that BioWare could release is a story-based expansion, similar to Dragon Age: Awakening, which -- instead of introducing new (and expensive) locales -- makes better and fuller use of the environments that already exist in the game.
 
Perhaps this expansion could revolve around a fascinating mystery that the Inquisition has to solve -- a mystery presented in BioWare's classic, cinematic style, populated with memorable characters, both fair-minded and foul, and which gives us compelling reasons to return to many of the stunning locations that were squandered on shard collecting and Rift-closing in the main campaign.

This expansion could occur after the main game, introducing a brand new conflict and new villains.

Or it could be used to shore up and flesh out the central narrative, transforming Corypheus and his henchmen into the well-developed and worthy adversaries that I'm sure they were intended to be.

That would be a good Idea. Like it before end game though. Maybe tying showing more about the link with Corypheus and the Wardens or the Tevinter mage?

[k177sh0t]

Have to agree with you OP.

 

There's not enough side story quests to keep you constantly invested in the DA universe

[Lilithor]

A classic bias is imagining that what you know is common knowledge. You did know, good for you, I didn't and many still do not. Hence why many wrong assumptions are made about how easy it is to make a NPC.

It was pretty obvious for me since I was like 12? Anyone who understand the basics knows this. You probably didn't know because you never spent time to think about it before, if you did you would know. Like when I played games as a child I tried to understand how they had movement, first I thought they made the whole screen with all possible outcomes, then I realized it was impossible, then I asked pepople and most didn't know, eventually I learned about all the small elements and how they are separated and animated, but it was about 2D games. As a teen I learned about 3D models by trying to mod games. A little later I learned about development because of RPGs and forums. But of course if you, or any adult, spend like 10 minutes thinking about it you would know most of what is written there because things just don't jump out of thin air.

But it was completely useless anyway because when judging games those "problems" depend of budget, size of the team, engine and so on. Those things alone say nothing. Creating an NPC can be very complicated or very simple depending on how they direct the proccess, can happen in 15 minutes, one day, one year or even more. Same goes for anything else. In the case of a game like DAI most complications come from the synchronization of the teams, sometimes you will have the writting and graphics set but you can't create the final content because of other people still working on another things, then when everything is ready you realize that the inital idea won't work due to some reason you couldn't even imagine then they have to go back and rework this content by either making the game work with it or changing it to fit the current state of the game.

The thing is you can and should judge developers. It is not about being easy or hard, it is about what they owe you according to the "tier" of game you are buying, what they advertised, what you paid, and so on. If you want to have sympathy for them, go on but it is not about anything other than fairness and the law. It is a product I bought, not a friendship. It doesn't matter if they are happy, or sad, depressed or even if a beloved one died, it is a product, I want the product to be as good as they say it is, period, they can mourn after my game is working properly. If I believed in spirits and they all died in a plane crash I would suicide and torture them in the afterlife to do things right in their next life.

[AlanC9]

Perhaps some bias. i think a lot of gamers like dabbling with assets though and end up learning basics of 3d programs, 3d models, etc. Not enough to be experts or anything. Or even good amateurs. lol. Just enough to know it's hard work.

What percentage is "a lot"?

[Tremere]

It was pretty obvious for me since I was like 12? Anyone who understand the basics knows this. You probably didn't know because you never spent time to think about it before, if you did you would know. Like when I played games as a child I tried to understand how they had movement, first I thought they made the whole screen with all possible outcomes, then I realized it was impossible, then I asked pepople and most didn't know, eventually I learned about all the small elements and how they are separated and animated, but it was about 2D games. As a teen I learned about 3D models by trying to mod games. A little later I learned about development because of RPGs and forums. But of course if you, or any adult, spend like 10 minutes thinking about it you would know most of what is written there because things just don't jump out of thin air.

But it was completely useless anyway because when judging games those "problems" depend of budget, size of the team, engine and so on. Those things alone say nothing. Creating an NPC can be very complicated or very simple depending on how they direct the proccess, can happen in 15 minutes, one day, one year or even more. Same goes for anything else. In the case of a game like DAI most complications come from the synchronization of the teams, sometimes you will have the writting and graphics set but you can't create the final content because of other people still working on another things, then when everything is ready you realize that the inital idea won't work due to some reason you couldn't even imagine then they have to go back and rework this content by either making the game work with it or changing it to fit the current state of the game.

The thing is you can and should judge developers. It is not about being easy or hard, it is about what they owe you according to the "tier" of game you are buying, what they advertised, what you paid, and so on. If you want to have sympathy for them, go on but it is not about anything other than fairness and the law. It is a product I bought, not a friendship. It doesn't matter if they are happy, or sad, depressed or even if a beloved one died, it is a product, I want the product to be as good as they say it is, period, they can mourn after my game is working properly. If I believed in spirits and they all died in a plane crash I would suicide and torture them in the afterlife to do things right in their next life.

 

Anyone reading the highlighted comment would have to see the irony of statement, considering the fact that the developers of Dragon Age and indeed most games these days aren't young people... Much less teenagers. But of course you (or any teenager) spends about 10 minutes thinking about this. (Ironic, huh?) That you took the time to investigate the inner workings of games throughout your youth speaks highly of your curiosity and you came away more knowledgeable for it. Good for you, but you should never make the assumption that others (regardless of their age) don't have the same or in fact a more evolved sense of curiosity. It's that kind of puerile arrogance that spawns comments like Lee T's, and while I may or may not share his thoughts on some things, his comment would apply to anyone... Regardless of age.

 

Look, for all I know you're computer genius, but I make no assumptions beyond what you shared with us today. The point is, you don't live in a bubble and there are probably more people like you (and some more evolved), than you might imagine. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that those people come in difference races, creeds, colors, sexes and sexual orientations and many with their own unique skill sets... Yes, and different ages too. I've always said that there's nothing wrong with people being the center of their own universe, so long as it doesn't lead you to believe that you're the center of everyone elses.

 

Remember: "Assumption is the mother of all f*** ups!" So don't assume or presume to know what other people are capable of or have done. It might make people assume that you're arrogant and opinionated. Then again, I don't know you, so...