1664 réponses à ce sujet

[durengo]

first of all....

it isn't a mmo or we could say that all games they have collecting tasks and/or a open world are mmo.

then could be skyrim also a mmo and many other rpg too. because collecting tasks was always a part of rpg s.

 

and if i think back to 1980 and then forward till today then i can say...yes ,rpg s in the good old times had many of collecting tasks.

and since you can craft armor , clothes and weapons in rpg s (in general ) there are many more of them to get the ressources you need.

 

if i look at the main storyline of dai and the main storyline of dao and da2 ....then  i can see that the playtime of all main storylines from all three games are between 20+ and 40+/- hours .without dlc s and expansions of course.

 

if you play only the dai main storyline then the 'open world ' doesn't matter.but yes we got in dai a 'open world' and it is full of sidequests they doesn't belongs to the main story and there are few quests they belongs to the main story.

 

no one said that all quests in general belongs only for the main story and whoever thought that it will be so didn't know enough about the rpg genre.i can't remember that all quests in skyrim belongs to the main story..

 

i can't remember that all quests in general belongs to the main story from drakensang...

 

if i go back to older rpgs.. i can't remember that in gothic all quests only belongs to the main story...but i can remember that it has lots of collecting tasks too.

 

whats about baldurs gate?

 

and even if i look on kotor......was there all quests main story focused ? no!

 

you may say that in dao and da2  are all quests main story focused but that wouldn't be true.

 

it exist many rpg they not always hold your hand to escort you through the world

 

 

 

 

maybe you feel that the open world of dai looks like bare to you.... and you may miss content.ok i agree.

you may say that this is boring . i say if you feel that way then it is ok.

[Tremere]

Yes. Perverse. You saw disappointment where there wasn't any.

Edit: but it's not inconceivable that my interpretation of the quotes is irreversibly colored by having seen the original post in its entirety.

I see... Insofar as interpretations (not to mention opinions) are subjective, I'll accept that you didn't see what I did. Though I am impressed with your ability to see behind the print and make such a definitive statement about what was there and what wasn't.

[Elhanan]

I use the MMO term because:

* said so in my own review.
* DAI won an Award for best MMO/ RPG.
* Articles have written of the previous plan to have DAI as a MMO.

For myself, I have only experienced a single MMO: SWTOR; skipped, passed, or avoided the others. But I have done a little research on them as far back as '98-'99 when I joined the various Bioware boards. Using the term has nothing to do with mechanics, setting, harvesting, etc. It has more to do with telling a story set in a vast location(s). Any negativity is derived from mechanics used in such settings: trinity, threat, over the top FX for abilities, etc, but I did not use them in SWTOR either.

Now perhaps some see all the content and size as a way to lose sight of the storied goal. I see it as a way for the Player to help craft that story. It is not as hand's off as Skyrim, but it is not as linear as some other RPG's; works well for me.

DAI allows me a lot of freedom in which I get to play. What I hope is they will allow even more by returning Attribute distribution to the Player, more quickslots, lift weapon restrictions, etc. And while it isn't perfect, the game is very good.

[Cobwebmaster]

Fully agree with your comments Messeur Cousland. I would add that I found mostly aimlessly wandering around countless "open worlds" on petty quests exhausting, and a real test of gaming stamina, tolerance, and endurance. Such actions  played a big part in my racking up 150 hours of gameplay  which detracted significantly from my enjoyment of the experience. At one point I actually considered abandoning the game completely

It's a shame that Bioware decided to improve on their great strengths by diluting them in favour of a concept with which they were traditionally unfamiliar. Sadly a lot of the available RPG interaction with NPCs I skipped being too preoccupied with tying up myriad quests in multiple areas, and getting fed up in the process. 

 

[Rawgrim]

first of all....

it isn't a mmo or we could say that all games they have collecting tasks and/or a open world are mmo.

then could be skyrim also a mmo and many other rpg too. because collecting tasks was always a part of rpg s.

 

and if i think back to 1980 and then forward till today then i can say...yes ,rpg s in the good old times had many of collecting tasks.

and since you can craft armor , clothes and weapons in rpg s (in general ) there are many more of them to get the ressources you need.

 

if i look at the main storyline of dai and the main storyline of dao and da2 ....then  i can see that the playtime of all main storylines from all three games are between 20+ and 40+/- hours .without dlc s and expansions of course.

 

if you play only the dai main storyline then the 'open world ' doesn't matter.but yes we got in dai a 'open world' and it is full of sidequests they doesn't belongs to the main story and there are few quests they belongs to the main story.

 

no one said that all quests in general belongs only for the main story and whoever thought that it will be so didn't know enough about the rpg genre.i can't remember that all quests in skyrim belongs to the main story..

 

i can't remember that all quests in general belongs to the main story from drakensang...

 

if i go back to older rpgs.. i can't remember that in gothic all quests only belongs to the main story...but i can remember that it has lots of collecting tasks too.

 

whats about baldurs gate?

 

and even if i look on kotor......was there all quests main story focused ? no!

 

you may say that in dao and da2  are all quests main story focused but that wouldn't be true.

 

it exist many rpg they not always hold your hand to escort you through the world

 

 

 

 

maybe you feel that the open world of dai looks like bare to you.... and you may miss content.ok i agree.

you may say that this is boring . i say if you feel that way then it is ok.

 

 

99 percent of the side quests in BG and Kotor had a story to them, and most of them had different outcomes too. The side quests in DA:I doesn't have any of these. "I lost my ring!" Then you travel from point A to point B, pick up the ring, return and get a "thank you". That's it. Its as empty as it can possibly get.

[200Down]

Here's something that may make you go "hmmmmm" for a bit

 

1. First 30 hours of the game are quite a bit of fun. (sure it's debatable but for the most part it I think it's true)

 

2. In those first 30 hours the best combat is found, best cuttscenes, best story, etc...

 

3. After 30ish hours everything gets watered down and feels completely unfinished in some areas.

 

4. Some skills don't actually do what they say BUT this doesn't much matter for sales does it? Sure don't. As long as reviews are released based on a single playthrough we can get by with ALLLLLL sortsa BS.

 

5. Most reviews where based around a single playthrough where the fun parts are still fresh in the mind and faults may not even be amediately apparent.

 

6. Good reviews amount to successful sales numbers. Some popular youtube reviewers get over 2 million views on AAA games.

 

Conclusion? The entire game is built to impress the most popular reviewers. Which meens $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

Just a theory and obviously this could be completely wrong but eh... something to think about at the very least.

[Il Divo]

99 percent of the side quests in BG and Kotor had a story to them, and most of them had different outcomes too. The side quests in DA:I doesn't have any of these. "I lost my ring!" Then you travel from point A to point B, pick up the ring, return and get a "thank you". That's it. Its as empty as it can possibly get.

 

What? BG is notorious for this kind of thing with a few (rare) exceptions. Go here and collect this magic belt for a dwarf by killing an ogre. Go here and collect a white wolf pelt. Kill a house full of spiders. Collect a book. That's about as mundane and bland as it gets, like many of DA:I's over world quests. 

 

Tales of the Sword Coast was the only part of BG I would consider typical "Bioware level" quality. The Werewolf Island was particularly well done. 

[Rawgrim]

What? BG is notorious for this kind of thing with a few (rare) exceptions. Go here and collect this magic belt for a dwarf by killing an ogre. Go here and collect a white wolf pelt. Kill a house full of spiders. Collect a book. That's about as mundane and bland as it gets, like many of DA:I's over world quests. 

 

Tales of the Sword Coast was the only part of BG I would consider typical "Bioware level" quality. The Werewolf Island was particularly well done. 

 

You also get a long conversation about the belt, and also about the spider infested house. The white wolf bit isn't even a quest. The guy just mentions he is buying pelts. You don't even get XP for that one. They all involve a semi lengthy conversation in any case, and they at least give flesh out the quest a bit. In DA:I you get a "I lost this, can you fetch it?" and a "thank you" at the end. that's it. In some cases you don't even get that. You find letters on the ground that tells you you need to get inside a hut or something.

[durengo]

I use the MMO term because:

* said so in my own review.
* DAI won an Award for best MMO/ RPG.
* Articles have written of the previous plan to have DAI as a MMO.

For myself, I have only experienced a single MMO: SWTOR; skipped, passed, or avoided the others. But I have done a little research on them as far back as '98-'99 when I joined the various Bioware boards. Using the term has nothing to do with mechanics, setting, harvesting, etc. It has more to do with telling a story set in a vast location(s). Any negativity is derived from mechanics used in such settings: trinity, threat, over the top FX for abilities, etc, but I did not use them in SWTOR either.

Now perhaps some see all the content and size as a way to lose sight of the storied goal. I see it as a way for the Player to help craft that story. It is not as hand's off as Skyrim, but it is not as linear as some other RPG's; works well for me.

DAI allows me a lot of freedom in which I get to play. What I hope is they will allow even more by returning Attribute distribution to the Player, more quickslots, lift weapon restrictions, etc. And while it isn't perfect, the game is very good.

maybe we all should remember what mmo means... mmo=massively multiplayer online  and rpg=roleplay game    mmorpg (like swtor, world of warcraft and so on) =massively multiplayer online roleplay game

 

massively multiplayer online= a online game with hundred or thousands or more players they play together this game on maybe one server...or on many different server.

 

that can't happen in dai , we can't play together with 100 players. even if we could use a co-op mode to be able to play the dai storyline  together with some friends.. then it wouldn't dai a mmo.it would like baldurs gate   a normal rpg wit co-op modus.. and not a mmo.

[durengo]

You also get a long conversation about the belt, and also about the spider infested house. The white wolf bit isn't even a quest. The guy just mentions he is buying pelts. You don't even get XP for that one. They all involve a semi lengthy conversation in any case, and they at least give flesh out the quest a bit. In DA:I you get a "I lost this, can you fetch it?" and a "thank you" at the end. that's it. In some cases you don't even get that. You find letters on the ground that tells you you need to get inside a hut or something.

a long conversation or a short conversation.. who doesn't realy matter makes the big difference between how good or bad a game is? did you remember the story of this belt? must be a very interesting one if its so important for you.

 

or was it just a bothering that must be skipped.. a fetch quest and filler? and why should a quest giver talk hours long with you about the ring he lost?are there more words to say as simply 'thank you' if you bring the ring back? should he talk with you about that the ring is the one with the might ?One ring to rule them all to find them all, to drive into the darkness to bind them " 'gollum..gollum'

 

and about the letters you can find on the ground...that reminds me on skyrim.

and like i remember the quest giver in skyrim who told me that he lost his bow into a cave...and i have to find it...and after i found and gaved it back he said only .. 'thanks' .how is that different then your 'ring' example?

[200Down]

God, I want to give DAI more credit than calling it an MMO. 

 

I might have complaints, and it shares some traits in it's smaller quests, but it really isn't that bad.

Same, but then again... looks, smells, tastes like a duck... it's probably a duck

 

Players shouldn't hold back on pointing out stuff that obviously isn't up to thier standards.

It's not thier fault that BW was stupid enough to put things in the game that aren't fleshed out like they should have been. And in some cases not even finished or buggy as hell.

 

I've put alot of hours into the game and can't complain about NOT getting my moneys worth in TIME but I can honestly say the quality of content isn't there for BW standards.

[Lilithor]

maybe we all should remember what mmo means... mmo=massively multiplayer online  and rpg=roleplay game    mmorpg (like swtor, world of warcraft and so on) =massively multiplayer online roleplay game

 

massively multiplayer online= a online game with hundred or thousands or more players they play together this game on maybe one server...or on many different server.

 

that can't happen in dai , we can't play together with 100 players. even if we could use a co-op mode to be able to play the dai storyline  together with some friends.. then it wouldn't dai a mmo.it would like baldurs gate   a normal rpg wit co-op modus.. and not a mmo.

The translation is: "DAI features elements present in most of modern MMORPGs"
Also translating elements:
- Quest style
- Combat style
- Crafting style
- Equipment style
- Map style
- Gear oriented

Nobody is really talking about multiplayer here, we are talking about having elements in common with MMORPGs. The worst of MMORPGs was compiled in a single player game called Inquisition.

[Lilithor]

a long conversation or a short conversation.. who doesn't realy matter makes the big difference between how good or bad a game is? did you remember the story of this belt? must be a very interesting one if its so important for you.

 

or was it just a bothering that must be skipped.. a fetch quest and filler? and why should a quest giver talk hours long with you about the ring he lost?are there more words to say as simply 'thank you' if you bring the ring back? should he talk with you about that the ring is the one with the might ?One ring to rule them all to find them all, to drive into the darkness to bind them " 'gollum..gollum'

 

and about the letters you can find on the ground...that reminds me on skyrim.

Depends on how you play the game. For people who care about story, it makes ALL the difference. If I'm walking home and someone stops me in the way and says "I've lost my ring" I would answer "hope you find it goodbye".

If the same person said "I've lost my wedding ring, I spent a whole year saving money to restore it to be exactly like when my husband gave me, it is the only thing that reminds me of him after he died in the fire that destroyed all we had but the ring, it was unrecognizable when I found it. Now a thief stole my purse and beat me unconscious, the ring was in my hand and now I don't know if it the thief took it of if it just fell... I don't care about the other things but I don't know how can I live without that ring, without... him..."

Now I would be A LOT MORE INCLINED to help this person.

It would be better if people just accepted that Inquisition will never have awesome quests like Cammen and Gheyna or the Desire Demon and the Templar. Those quests were outreageously awful it is exactly the story (and the choices) that made them so awesome.

[durengo]

The translation is: "DAI features elements present in most of modern MMORPGs"
Also translating elements:
- Quest style
- Combat style
- Crafting style
- Equipment style
- Map style
- Gear oriented

Nobody is really talking about multiplayer here, we are talking about having elements in common with MMORPGs. The worst of MMORPGs was compiled in a single player game called Inquisition.

there are other rpg  (older ones and new ones) and they have a comparable map style . gear oriented? i didnt see that dai is gear oriented but anyways it exist other rpg they have the same and comparable gear system.

equipment style?   i repeat : there are other rpg they use a comparable equipment style like dai.

 

i could go on with that .. its the same with the quest style.. the crafting style and the combat style from dai.

 

and all the other rpg they are comparable  are rpg and not mmo.

[durengo]

If the same person said "I've lost my wedding ring, I spent a whole year saving money to restore it to be exactly like when my husband gave me, it is the only thing that reminds me of him after he died in the fire that destroyed all we had but the ring, it was unrecognizable when I found it. Now a thief stole my purse and beat me unconscious, the ring was in my hand and now I don't know if it the thief took it of if it just fell... I don't care about the other things but I don't know how can I live without that ring, without... him..."

 

yes and many people they dont like fetch quest and fillers in general would skip this long conversation because its boring and doesnt matter.

 

and i repeat again:

i remember the quest giver in skyrim who told me that he lost his bow into a cave...and i have to find it...and after i found and gaved it back he said only .. 'thanks'.

 

how is that different then your 'ring' example? this is only one example from skyrim... we could talk about many more.i also remember many other rpg they are the same.

 

thats maybe sad...and sure i would also enjoy more conversation but  this isnt a evidence that the game is more an mmo as a rpg.

[Dinerenblanc]

yes and many people they dont like fetch quest and fillers in general would skip this long conversation because its boring and doesnt matter.

and i repeat again:
i remember the quest giver in skyrim who told me that he lost his bow into a cave...and i have to find it...and after i found and gaved it back he said only .. 'thanks' how is that different then your 'ring' example? this is only one example from skyrim... we could talk about many more.

The funny part is that there's a quest just like it in Inquistions. There's an elf in the Hinterlands that lost her husband to some Templars. She goes on to say that they killed him because they thought he was a Mage and they took his ring cause they thought it was magic. She asks for it back for his memory. It's the same exact thing! Haha

[durengo]

The funny part is that there's a quest just like it in Inquistions. There's an elf in the Hinterlands that lost her husband to some Templars. She goes on to say that they killed him because they thought he was a Mage and they took his ring cause they thought it was magic. She asks for it back for his memory. It's the same exact thing! Haha

the funny part is  that player say that they dont like dai because of the fetch  quests..and fillers... that they skip them in general ... that the dont kill the dragons because it is bothering. but on the other side they say that a other rpg is so much better ...but the other rpg has fetch quests and filler too.and if we look at skyrim...the game has  dragons too ....

many of them mustn't be killed.

 

and then they say that they dont like that there is not much conversation into the dai fetch quests. why should they care about if they skip all anyway because they mean it is senseless to care about to find a ring or a belt or whatever into a quest for a bothering npc.

 

and then we can talk about the other rpg again .. the one it is so much better then dai... and we can talk about that many fetch quests into this game have less conversation for and into the fetch quests as well.

 

but you are right..it exist also in dai and many other rpg  enough quests and fetch quests they include large conversations.

[Il Divo]

You also get a long conversation about the belt, and also about the spider infested house. The white wolf bit isn't even a quest. The guy just mentions he is buying pelts. You don't even get XP for that one. They all involve a semi lengthy conversation in any case, and they at least give flesh out the quest a bit. In DA:I you get a "I lost this, can you fetch it?" and a "thank you" at the end. that's it. In some cases you don't even get that. You find letters on the ground that tells you you need to get inside a hut or something.

 

Semi-lengthy conversations? They involve a small paragraph of text, where someone tells you to do something, typically with comically bad dialogue. "Oh woe is me, I lost my belt, now go get it for me!". This is hardly what I want when I think of "story-based side quests". It's a weak comparison. 

[AlanC9]

I see... Insofar as interpretations (not to mention opinions) are subjective, I'll accept that you didn't see what I did. Though I am impressed with your ability to see behind the print and make such a definitive statement about what was there and what wasn't.

That's because I actually could go beyond the text in this instance. Like I already told you, I actually saw Gaider's original Tumblr post and the followups, so I can definitively state that my interpretation was correct.

But on reflection, I somewhat overstated things earlier. It isn't wrong to see disappointment as a possibility from the excerpts you saw. It was wrong to be certain about that interpretation, since it could have been wrong and in fact was wrong.

[Archerwarden]

Its amazing how people can look at the same thing so differently. 
 
3 playthroughs and loved every bit of it. 
 
Only had a few complaints overall and one of them was not really having control over the color of the armors that I picked up or made. Cassandra was wearing red armor half the time. The new tint system took away one of my only gripes lol

I know isn't? Its kind of fun to read different opinions!

I didn't know there was a color issue on the armour- I'm glad they fixed it then. That's one bug I don't have thankfully.

Speaking of Cassandra, how did you like her quest? Thought it was one of best - it showed another side too her. I loved the scene after the quest where she is leaning agains the table I think it was. And Miranda Raison VO was perfect (Jo Portman!)

[Elhanan]

maybe we all should remember what mmo means... mmo=massively multiplayer online  and rpg=roleplay game    mmorpg (like swtor, world of warcraft and so on) =massively multiplayer online roleplay game
 
massively multiplayer online= a online game with hundred or thousands or more players they play together this game on maybe one server...or on many different server.
 
that can't happen in dai , we can't play together with 100 players. even if we could use a co-op mode to be able to play the dai storyline  together with some friends.. then it wouldn't dai a mmo.it would like baldurs gate   a normal rpg wit co-op modus.. and not a mmo.

From my previous posts:

"It is a MMO-RPG; just w/o the Multiplayer part. For over a year before release I knew it was going to be multiple large areas; not Open World, so have little idea where anyone is disappointed at that reveal."

But as DAI devs have themselves indicated, the design is based on MMO designs. This is not a problem for me, as I enjoy playing without crowds, and enjoy exploring environs crafted for me.

[FreeWitch]

Personally, I get what the OP is saying here.

 

For me, part of the charm of this game is to be able to wander, collect stuff, enjoy the graphics and chill in game.  I don't find that boring at all.  However, I can understand why others don't like that.  That opinion is just as valid as any other.

 

To me this game is a huge step up from DA2 which I hated so much I wanted to bust it in half.  Others loved that game.  I never bought a single add on to that game and it was shelved immediately after I finished it.  Hence my confusion on who this Cory thing was.  Made me scratch my head for a while.

 

There are things the OP didn't list that I think need worked on.  Again, opinion.  Others believe this is the best game ever.  So all in all, I do get you OP and understand why the things you listed you don't like.  I might not agree but I can see what you're saying.

[Archerwarden]

I had no idea it'd be MMO like. You're saying it was obvious from the start? The one title they name dropped was Skyrim, about "looking into" it's ideas. That reference itself was incredibly vague, but it's more natural that people assumed they were trying to make a sandboxy game from that. Not anything MMO-like.
 
 
I don't even think it turned out too MMO like either though. I don't know what it's trying to be.

The developers said open world and that they were heavily influenced by Skyrim.

I think in trying to please a wider audience the DAO type story, roleplaying, gameplay got lost.
I did think it would be a big open world- as big as Skyrim but with Bioware (DAO &DA2) choices, roleplaying, questing. I thought all the regions would have their own quests similar to DAO and relating to the main story.

I did not expect 100 hours of collecting herbs, shards, bottles, maps and 20 hours of story, nor did I expect quests where there would be limited ways to complete: ashes, talking goat - do the quest or ignore the quest.


Please note: I did like the game, didn't love it though.

[Archerwarden]

first of all....
it isn't a mmo or we could say that all games they have collecting tasks and/or a open world are mmo.
then could be skyrim also a mmo and many other rpg too. because collecting tasks was always a part of rpg s.
 
and if i think back to 1980 and then forward till today then i can say...yes ,rpg s in the good old times had many of collecting tasks.
and since you can craft armor , clothes and weapons in rpg s (in general ) there are many more of them to get the ressources you need.
 
if i look at the main storyline of dai and the main storyline of dao and da2 ....then  i can see that the playtime of all main storylines from all three games are between 20+ and 40+/- hours .without dlc s and expansions of course.
 
if you play only the dai main storyline then the 'open world ' doesn't matter.but yes we got in dai a 'open world' and it is full of sidequests they doesn't belongs to the main story and there are few quests they belongs to the main story.
 
no one said that all quests in general belongs only for the main story and whoever thought that it will be so didn't know enough about the rpg genre.i can't remember that all quests in skyrim belongs to the main story..
 
i can't remember that all quests in general belongs to the main story from drakensang...
 
if i go back to older rpgs.. i can't remember that in gothic all quests only belongs to the main story...but i can remember that it has lots of collecting tasks too.
 
whats about baldurs gate?
 
and even if i look on kotor......was there all quests main story focused ? no!
 
you may say that in dao and da2  are all quests main story focused but that wouldn't be true.
 
it exist many rpg they not always hold your hand to escort you through the world
 
 
 
 
maybe you feel that the open world of dai looks like bare to you.... and you may miss content.ok i agree.
you may say that this is boring . i say if you feel that way then it is ok.

Yes but in DAO It felt as those all those quest were story related and many were. You can say that Cammen's quest is not story related but it added a quest that was fun, humorous. In that quest alone there were a variety of ways to accomplish that quest or you could tell him no. Also that quest was related to the overall Dailish Camp quest that was related to the overall main story quest of gathering allies, help those allies first then gain them.

I don't see where putting ashes, getting a potion to help a mother breathe, killing 10 dragons fits in the overall main storyline.
Not to say some of them were not interesting and should not be there at all - I am not saying that. I just come to expect more from a DAO & DA2 game.