1664 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

I still have not killed all the Dragons in either campaign; only the ones encroaching on the people. And that is the link I use to join side quests to story. If one does not care about gaining influence, diplomacy, people, refugees, etc, then skip them. There are other ways to gain XP: codex bonuses, Kill XP, other side-quest choices, exploration, etc.

Helping the entitled spirit in Crestwood defeat the offending Rage Demon was amusing to me. I also liked listening to the Rift Mage trainer. Not parts directly linked to the main story, but entertaining nonetheless.

[Archerwarden]

It would be better if people just accepted that Inquisition will never have awesome quests like Cammen and Gheyna or the Desire Demon and the Templar. Those quests were outreageously awful it is exactly the story (and the choices) that made them so awesome.

Its not about accepting and moving on- I've accepted what DAI is but doesn't mean I can't give feedback and discuss with other players.

But your right part of what roleplaying is about is choices and and relation to the story. Not all its about though.

[Archerwarden]

I still have not killed all the Dragons in either campaign; only the ones encroaching on the people. And that is the link I use to join side quests to story. If one does not care about gaining influence, diplomacy, people, refugees, etc, then skip them. There are other ways to gain XP: codex bonuses, Kill XP, other side-quest choices, exploration, etc.

Helping the entitled spirit in Crestwood defeat the offending Rage Demon was amusing to me. I also liked listening to the Rift Mage trainer. Not parts directly linked to the main story, but entertaining nonetheless.

The Dragons were beautiful and each one was different.
For me - I play the game as the developers wished it to be played meaning I want to experience all that they have to offer. Its my choice and others may have other choices. I may be weird that way - I like to do everything or as much as I can.

I too like to see what is around the corner what new quest a npc will give me, what npcs are saying to each other or going into the Taverns and just listening to the songs! My they were pretty! Can't tell you how many hours I stayed in the Villas in the EmeraldGraves getting lost in the beauty of the rooms! Or standing at the ocean in the Storm Coast or watching the dragons from a distance before killing them. Or how many times I went to Hafters Wood just to see the words "Hafters Wood' appear on the screen because of Kal and Hafter in The Calling.

There is so much to love in DAI and it saddens me that there was also so much not.

Yes, I liked that quest in Crestwood also! It was very fun. Guess I'm saying I would have liked more of those.
The Rift Mage trainer was funny - She reminded me in a way of Inez the botanist! Picked that specialization just because.

If I skipped all that you mentioned above in your post there would be no game to play - Is your point?

Edited to add: Elhanan - Please tell me if I misunderstood: "If I skipped all that you mentioned above in your post there would be no game to play - Is your point?" LOL. You have a love of the DAverse as much as me- you can't expect me not to play all of it!

[Lilithor]

 

there are other rpg  (older ones and new ones) and they have a comparable map style . gear oriented? i didnt see that dai is gear oriented but anyways it exist other rpg they have the same and comparable gear system.

equipment style?   i repeat : there are other rpg they use a comparable equipment style like dai.

 

i could go on with that .. its the same with the quest style.. the crafting style and the combat style from dai.

 

and all the other rpg they are comparable  are rpg and not mmo.

First thing that people who discuss in the internet should learn: Picking exemples at random that do not represent a whole is not relevant.
If we are talking about name and characteristics and how certain characteristics make you classify a game in a certain way we are obviously not talking about absolutes, or origins or anything else like this. It is like arguing about pop music, you can't say something is or isn't pop music because it had a drum more common to rock music or a violin featured in classical music, these things alone do not define what kind of music they are, it is part of the whole.
So of course RPG share characteristics with MMORPG, as they do between all subgenres thus there is no point in talking about which RPGs do and which don't have a feature. I just pointed, and everybody who plays RPGs and MMORPGs for decades can too, that Inquisition features are in most of recent MMORPGs. From Final Fantasy in the NES to Inquisition I have played hundreds of single player RPGs and I have played hundreds of mmorpgs, most of them korean, and Inquisition play exactly like the most generic of them and nothing like the single player ones. Again you can of course find a lot of single player games that have some of those features I listed in the post you quoted but that combination exactly like in MMOs is very very rare outside of MMOs.
And newsflash: DAI was built on a MMORPGs. The project started as such and the base became DAI as stated by the devs so you are just arguing against a fact. Do as Elhanan, accept the fact. You can argue it is not bad like he did, but denying it is just denying reality.
 

 

yes and many people they dont like fetch quest and fillers in general would skip this long conversation because its boring and doesnt matter.

 

and i repeat again:

i remember the quest giver in skyrim who told me that he lost his bow into a cave...and i have to find it...and after i found and gaved it back he said only .. 'thanks'.

 

how is that different then your 'ring' example? this is only one example from skyrim... we could talk about many more.i also remember many other rpg they are the same.

 

thats maybe sad...and sure i would also enjoy more conversation but  this isnt a evidence that the game is more an mmo as a rpg.

 

How is Skyrim related to any of this? LOL
People don't like fetch for various reason. For some it wouldn't matter anyway. For others it would. How is that it is important? It is RPG the more story to the quests, the better, it is not about people liking it or not. They are shallow as they are now. It is not a matter of liking or disliking it is a matter of lacking dialogue and lacking any link to the main plot.

 

The funny part is that there's a quest just like it in Inquistions. There's an elf in the Hinterlands that lost her husband to some Templars. She goes on to say that they killed him because they thought he was a Mage and they took his ring cause they thought it was magic. She asks for it back for his memory. It's the same exact thing! Haha

 

I guess that is why Bioware does not bother doing things right. You can't see the difference let me explain it to you: The woman in Inquisition didn't make me feel a thing. Her description was purely mechanical, if I was to be touched (and I wasn't) would be because I imagined how she felt about it and transformed those shallow words into something more, there wasn't an eloquent talk about how she felt. Cammen made it interesting to me to help him, the Desire Demon had enough talk time to make me question things in real life, and those were MINOR side quests in DAO.

That is the problem of Inquisition defenders they go on how things are the same, as the dude above is trying to do, but hey, they aren't. Of course you stabilish relations and similarities between things, well, between anything, human mind is amazing and I'm pretty sure at least one people in this planet related even things as distant to one another as black holes and popcorns, but having something in common is not being the same.

So when you compare things first thing people have to do is understand what is being compared, if the person understands that, then they can go on and see if what they are going to talk about really fits the comparison. In this case we are talking about shallow side quests x deep side quests. In RPG the text is everything, thus the way things are written are a lot more important than what is being said, in fact, what is being said matter little to nothing, the way it is said is all that matters. Take away the writting and Bioware games are Diablo with even worse combat. So, no, what I posted is not exactly like that quest. As all other quests in Inquisition, game is all on you, you have to care about the people freezing in Hinterlands because no NPC will make it matter to you, you have to grasp the idea, imagine a lot and see if you care or not, and you probably won't. Again, no, being the same in what is basic does not make something the same as a whole.

I wonder if the people who post things like that having been through college, when comparing things like these in arcticles people would promptly point you the falacies and false simmetries and other things. I don't know most of the technical terms in english, if I did I would probably bother explaining to you how is it that the way you compare things are wrong. It is like saying handball is soccer played with the hands instead of the foot, n the surface it may seem right, but to anyone who payed both it is pretty clear there are a lot of differences.

Edit: The woman in Winter Palace made me feel more than the one Hinterlands despite her story being less dramatic, her reason were ridiculous but the way she talked about it was more interesting, or perhaps should I say more coherent? The woman in Hinterlands does not act like it mattered to her as she said, her behaviour and speech just don't match.

[durengo]

The developers said open world and that they were heavily influenced by Skyrim.

I think in trying to please a wider audience the DAO type story, roleplaying, gameplay got lost.
I did think it would be a big open world- as big as Skyrim but with Bioware (DAO &DA2) choices, roleplaying, questing. I thought all the regions would have their own quests similar to DAO and relating to the main story.

I did not expect 100 hours of collecting herbs, shards, bottles, maps and 20 hours of story, nor did I expect quests where there would be limited ways to complete: ashes, talking goat - do the quest or ignore the quest.


Please note: I did like the game, didn't love it though.

ok .. we all use the word 'open world' here ...(i am too) .but thats wrong.... dai has no open world...a open world didn't include a load screen ..

in dai we have  some large open areas .. and if we travel from area (as example : hinterlants) to area (as example: val royeux) then we see  a load screen.in a real open world game the player could walk or ride from the hinterlants to val royeux without the gameplay break from a load screen.

 

skyrim is not a mmo.... if the developer said 'that dai were influenced by skyrim' then it  doesn't mean that this is the reason why dai is a mmo (dai isn 't also a mmo)

 

 

 

 

From my previous posts:

"It is a MMO-RPG; just w/o the Multiplayer part. For over a year before release I knew it was going to be multiple large areas; not Open World, so have little idea where anyone is disappointed at that reveal."

But as DAI devs have themselves indicated, the design is based on MMO designs. This is not a problem for me, as I enjoy playing without crowds, and enjoy exploring environs crafted for me.

every shortcut for a term has his official definition:

cia =Central Intelligence Agency

fbi=Federal Bureau of Investigation

mmorpg= massively multiplayer online roleplay game

mmo= massively multiplayer online

 

massively multiplayer denote a large amount of player (100 persons +) they play together one game .

ther are no other versions of different definitions what mmo stand for or what all else mmo could maybe mean.

mmo denote not a game who use a special quest system.. or a special combat system...

 

if dao would be able to get played  with 100 or 1000 people together then it would be a mmo .. .no it would be a mmorpg .

 

thats why dai cant be a mmo-rpg or a mmorpg and also not a mmo.

 

i never was reading that a developer said that dai is a mmo.

[Elhanan]

The Dragons were beautiful and each one was different.
For me - I play the game as the developers wished it to be played meaning I want to experience all that they have to offer. Its my choice and others may have other choices. I may be weird that way - I like to do everything or as much as I can.

I too like to see what is around the corner what new quest a npc will give me, what npcs are saying to each other or going into the Taverns and just listening to the songs! My they were pretty! Can't tell you how many hours I stayed in the Villas in the EmeraldGraves getting lost in the beauty of the rooms! Or standing at the ocean in the Storm Coast or watching the dragons from a distance before killing them. Or how many times I went to Hafters Wood just to see the words "Hafters Wood' appear on the screen because of Kal and Hafter in The Calling.

There is so much to love in DAI and it saddens me that there was also so much not.

Yes, I liked that quest in Crestwood also! It was very fun. Guess I'm saying I would have liked more of those.
The Rift Mage trainer was funny - She reminded me in a way of Inez the botanist! Picked that specialization just because.

If I skipped all that you mentioned above in your post there would be no game to play - Is your point?

Edited to add: Elhanan - Please tell me if I misunderstood: "If I skipped all that you mentioned above in your post there would be no game to play - Is your point?" LOL. You have a love of the DAverse as much as me- you can't expect me not to play all of it!

I was responding to this mostly:

" don't see where putting ashes, getting a potion to help a mother breathe, killing 10 dragons fits in the overall main storyline.
Not to say some of them were not interesting and should not be there at all - I am not saying that. I just come to expect more from a DAO & DA2 game. "

Perhaps the game is so large and vast, one may not recall said moments, while storied cut-scenes may resonate better for them. I tend to agree with this post; enjoy the game as intended, and not as predicted.

[Archerwarden]

ok .. we all use the word 'open world' here ...(i am too) .but thats wrong.... dai has no open world...a open world didn't include a load screen ..
in dai we have  some large open areas .. and if we travel from area (as example : hinterlants) to area (as example: val royeux) then we see  a load screen.in a real open world game the player could walk or ride from the hinterlants to val royeux without the gameplay break from a load screen.
 
skyrim is not a mmo.... if the developer said 'that dai were influenced by skyrim' then it  doesn't mean that this is the reason why dai is a mmo (it is no mmo)

every shortcut for a term has his official definition:
cia =Central Intelligence Agency
fbi=Federal Bureau of Investigation
mmorpg= massively multiplayer online roleplay game
mmo= massively multiplayer online
 
massively multiplayer denote a big amount of player (100 persons +) they play together one game .
 
thats why dai cant be a mmo.
 
i never was reading that a developer said that dai is a mmo.

Don't think I said the developer said DAI was an MMO - I am saying it has Massively Multiplayer Online aspects/elements to it that I do not think fit in the Single Player RPG DAverse.

Open world is a word the company used. I am using it the broad sense that it is big you can go most anywhere within that map as opposed to a hallway game. Just as a point of reference for open world- CD Projeckt used that term to describe The Witcher - think of it that way and you will get my meaning.

Not a video game industry person here just someone who loves the DAverse.

And please don't lecture me on the use of abbreviations. I know I have many typos and I forget to edit before posting sometimes... but really.

Whats your point?

[durengo]

Whats your point?

my post doesn't only belong to you .. it was a answer from me to elhanan too and in generel to all the ones they start to mix different terms together... they can't normaly bound together because of the own denote from each one.

 

 

as example:

its a big difference if someone say that dai (the whole game) is a mmorpg.... or if someone say that the quest system (only one part from dai) reminds him to the ones from a mmorpg.aside the fact that even different mmorpg could have different quest systems.

[Archerwarden]

I was responding to this mostly:

" don't see where putting ashes, getting a potion to help a mother breathe, killing 10 dragons fits in the overall main storyline.
Not to say some of them were not interesting and should not be there at all - I am not saying that. I just come to expect more from a DAO & DA2 game. "

Perhaps the game is so large and vast, one may not recall said moments, while storied cut-scenes may resonate better for them. I tend to agree with this post; enjoy the game as intended, and not as predicted.

Dear Elhanan, You do have a point. One of my first posts was similar to that - its so big that I get lost and detached from the story.

May I also add: I do enjoy your posts and you do remind me there are lots of things to love in DAI and that I need to see those more and not forget them.. Also - you have a wonderful sense of humor - I love the pun you wrote in the pun thread - it has kept me laughing for days everytime I think of it!

[Tremere]

That's because I actually could go beyond the text in this instance. Like I already told you, I actually saw Gaider's original Tumblr post and the followups, so I can definitively state that my interpretation was correct.

But on reflection, I somewhat overstated things earlier. It isn't wrong to see disappointment as a possibility from the excerpts you saw. It was wrong to be certain about that interpretation, since it could have been wrong and in fact was wrong.

Well, considering the fact that in that same post I stated that my opinion was just that, your interpretation of my words and intent is equally wrong. Perversely so.

[KilrB]

Inquisition is marketed as an RPG = Role Playing Game.

 

What is this crap about "as the developers wished it to be played" and "enjoy the game as intended, and not as predicted" ?

 

It is a ROLE PLAYING GAME and should be played, and enjoyed, be ME as I play it.

 

It should be played, and enjoyed, by you as YOU play it.

 

In DA:I can I:

 

Assign attribute/stat points?

Have a DW warrior?

Learn to cast spells as a rogue?

Learn to pick locks as anything but a rogue?

Join The Carta?

etc.

etc.

 

Yes, some of these would be more difficult to pull off but ...

 

If it is truly a role playing game, as advertised, there cannot be an "as the developers wished it to be played", imo.

 

Only a how the player wishes to play it.

[Rawgrim]

I all fairness, though, if anyone could learn to cast spells in DA, it would go against the lore quite a bit. The circles would be stuffed. then an they did add magical abilities to every class now, so...I just don't know anymore.

[KilrB]

I all fairness, though, if anyone could learn to cast spells in DA, it would go against the lore quite a bit. The circles would be stuffed. then an they did add magical abilities to every class now, so...I just don't know anymore.

 

All right ... use scrolls then.

[Cobwebmaster]

It's clear to me since da 2 that they have picked their side. Romance novel fans and action game fans. I would be a liar if I said that I did not enjoy elements from those 2 genres. Neither were ever that important to me since I fall asleep every time I play Diablo 3 and I have never actually read a romance novel all the way through I just skip to the good stuff lol.

As an ardent fan of Bioware since BG I always took up the romance options firstly in BG2 through to TOB then in NWN. During the time of NWN's popularity a number of discussion forums on romance were opened and discussed at length I being one of the contributors then. Bioware used a number of the points we raised in development (that's what they said at the time). I have to say looking at the romance options in DAI they don't seem to have been listening. Well written and interesting romances like Jaheira (BG2) and Aribeth (NWN) have not been repeated after DAO other than the rather tame and formal Josephine's encounter as a male human. the rest seem shallow and fragmented by comparison. Certainly in RPG terms there is nothing to match previous efforts and very little in depth exploration of individual personalities

[Elhanan]

As an ardent fan of Bioware since BG I alwasy took up the romance options firstly in BG2 through to TOB then in NWN. During the time of NWN's popularity a number of discussion forums on romance were opened and discussed at length I being one iof the contributors then. Bioware used a number of the points we raised in development (that's what they said at the time). I have to say looking at the romance options in DAI they don't seem to have been listening. Well written and interesting romances like Jaheira (BG2) and Aribeth (NWN) have not been repeated after DAO and other than the rather tame and formal Josephine's encounter as a male human. the rest seem shallow and fragmented by comparison. Certainly in RPG terms there is nothing to match previous efforts and very little in depth exploration of individual personalities

Aveline is perhaps one of the best written romances I have seen in games, even though it is not typically addressed as one.

[AlanC9]

Well, considering the fact that in that same post I stated that my opinion was just that, your interpretation of my words and intent are equally wrong. Perversely so.

 
Well, yeah, after walking your position back in a couple of posts, you did end up here:

Again... For the sake of clarity, I'm basing my comments on this article. Sure, it can be interpreted however you wish, but clearly there's an element of disappointment. I'll concede that *maybe* I gave the word "disappointment" more emphasis than I should have (perhaps "dissatifaction" would have been a better choice), but... You be the judge. My opinion is just that.

The second sentence is a masterpiece of incoherence, btw. But yeah, you did say it was only your opinion. The thing is, it was a bad opinion. This is just not a case where multiple interpretations are valid, because Gaider really wasn't expressing disappointment, except possibly with the reality of his entire industry. And now that I look at the article you linked, the article is explicit that Gaider is talking about the process in general, and not anything unusual about DAI in particular. I was too kind to your position upthread.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

you are correct OP

this isn't bioware

this EAware or Biowaste 

[Tremere]

 
Well, yeah, after walking your position back in a couple of posts, you did end up here:


The second sentence is a masterpiece of incoherence, btw. But yeah, you did say it was only your opinion. The thing is, it was a bad opinion. This is just not a case where multiple interpretations are valid, because Gaider really wasn't expressing disappointment, except possibly with the reality of his entire industry. And now that I look at the article you linked, the article is explicit that Gaider is talking about the process in general, and not anything unusual about DAI in particular. I was too kind to your position upthread.

 

       

[Cobwebmaster]

Aveline is perhaps one of the best written romances I have seen in games, even though it is not typically addressed as one.

I have to say that while my Hawke in DA2 examined Aveline as a potential romantic interest I never invoked any LT's with her as she just wasn't my type - missed that XP. Instead I opted for Isabella. I also grabbed the Mark of the Assassin DLC to have a look at Tallis as a fun companion. Happy Days when Bioware was doing better role play stuff someways than in DAO (less serious,  more relaxed. and with fun options) - even if it was in DA2 which was a bit restricted in scope and areas to explore - apols for omitting mention of DA" relationships which  in some areas, both dramatic and intense on reflection)

Going back on topic instead of like the ME trilogy enjoyment levels which was great, greater, and greatest (except for the ending) we have the DA triplets with exceptional, not quite as good, and unnecessarily laborious 

[Elhanan]

And I found ME2 the least fave of the lot due to Thermal Clip policing after each area. It got better in ME3, but still is not a mechanic that aids the feel of urgency.

But Romances are a distant priority for me. Much prefer the main stories, or the tales of the NPC's than something from a Soap. And Cole is my fave new character for this reason.

[AlanC9]

I'm going to have to use one of my lifelines here. Can the studio audience tell me what message Tremere's trying to convey three posts up?

[DragonKingReborn]

I'm going to have to use one of my lifelines here. Can the studio audience tell me what message Tremere's trying to convey three posts up?

I'm going to go with "it's ok to laugh at someone who can bench press you if they're crying about being ridiculous". Or not, it's pretty confusing.

[Cobwebmaster]

The Dragons were beautiful and each one was different.
For me - I play the game as the developers wished it to be played meaning I want to experience all that they have to offer. Its my choice and others may have other choices. I may be weird that way - I like to do everything or as much as I can.

 

Firstly I agree that the dragons were different and well crafted but I didn't see the point in just killing them. In DAO the high dragon had become an object of worship. You could sneak by it if you wanted to on the way to fulfil a main quest line or choose to battle it to destroy the dragon cult's raison detre.

I'm a little wary of playing the game "the way the developers want me to". That's a bit like the tail wagging the dog! Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy the game overall, but got nowhere near as much magic zing from it as either DAO or DA2. 

My experience with Bioware gameplaying goes back for more than 15 years and I've played all of their single player games. The main quest line still has much to admire about it but all the side issues and tertiary quests in huge areas of wasteland and uninhabited regions did little more than detract from what for me would have been a much more praiseworthy experience. I certainly expect the opportunity to give feedback on both the good and the bad

[In Exile]

Didn't the entire Wizardry series do this?

And Mass Effect did it first for Bioware games particularly.

[Cobwebmaster]

I'm going to have to use one of my lifelines here. Can the studio audience tell me what message Tremere's trying to convey three posts up?

Can I recommend listening to "A World Of Our Own!" recorded in 1965 by an Australian band called The Seekers?