1664 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

youre also comparing 2006, to 2015... To thIs day, i can replay ME1, and never feel as though im doing chores.. I had to force myself to finish a single campaign.. More than 3/4 of it felt like a chore..While i agree, the main, and companion quests were good, there were only like 5-7 main, and 1 of each companion.. Not all of which were good btw.. Red Lyrium (woohoo), Warden Collectibles (yea.. I needed to collect MORE... Bottles, shards, etc..) Almost 10yrs later, its a far better experience for me!

 

How is collecting Matriarch's who-gives-a-crap writings or the Turian flags or whatever different from bottles or shards? Those are ME1 side quests. As are random locations with 0 dialogue in literal abandoned wastelands.

[In Exile]

I think that had to do with Bioware starting two brand new franchises back to back. ME and DA. They cost plenty to make, and they didn't have a huge fanbase at that point.

 

Selling out to EA is worse than Bioware not making AA titles. EA will milk the company for the franchises they have created, and then close the doors. They have done the same time and time again to other companies. This is why they are trying to cater the games to the most casual of gamers. The recent games have been so simplified that they border on being insulting to the players. This is done for one reason only. More immediate sales. The people behind the great games Bioware will be remembered for have all left the ship, and jumped over to kickstarter projects in order to make proper rpgs.

 

What we are getting from EA now is pretty much some "Justin Bieber" version of rpgs. Pretty much pure action games with 1-2 rpg elements in there so that it still qualifies as an rpg. Even the manuals are gone from their games, because they don't even need them anymore. The game constantly spoonfeeds you what to do, what to click, etc. And even despite of this, one of the EA bosses tells the press that their games are still too hard for their target audience. Let that one sink in. A game that requires you to cast 1 spell before every battle, and then button mash for the rest of it, is something that is considered to be too hard to do. Alternatively you can just place your face on the keyboard and just roll it all over the keyboard while drooling, and win every fight easily by doing that. Which is something I suspect some of the new fans are doing anyway.

 

That's not what happened historically. Bioware was already in a disastrous financial state, which is why they (along with pandemic) were bought out (largely) by some hedge fund or other in the US. It's that fund that flipped them both to EA.

 

All of this predates DA:O and ME. Or rather, their release. Bioware (like Obsidian) wasn't anywhere near as fiscally succesful as people think. The difference being that in the early 2000s Bioware couldn't have tried to fund their development via crowdfunding. Though their pattern in their games is quite clear that they don't value the supposed old-school mechanics people thought they valued that much to begin with, since they progressively abandoned them or disregarded them entirely in their post-BG1 titles (BG2 is arguable given predecessors like Fallout 1-2 and PS:T).

[wolfhowwl]

Mass Effect 1 happened without EA. That's a AAA title.

 

 

Yeah that had Microsoft behind it.

 

I'm not sure what kind of resources they had though since ME1 feels like the developers were in way over their heads and frankly the game was not good (it also shares some problems with DA3 as well).

[Bioware-Critic]

They are gaining a ton of casuals as fans now, but they are losing rpg fans and the old Bioware fans. Casuals are like the MTV kids, really. They follow hype, and nothing else. Seems an almost seasonal thing, really. They cling to stuff for a short while, then move on. The base fans are what keeps a franchise alive, if you lose them you are in trouble.

This!

 

You are right. They are like damn "Bieber-fanatics"!

 

I mean I don't have anything against Mrs. Bieber she is a wonderful metrosexual girl and all ...

But even though she would make an excellent catwalk-model for kids-fashion ... when it comes to voting for your own interest ... she simply is immature!

This whole "believe-the-hype-generation" ... when it comes to mindless shopping-frenzies ... they are the best!

And all I could say is "YOU GO GIRLS! ... SHOP TILL YOU DROP! ... YOU HAVE FUN!" But when it comes to anything else really ...

When it comes to using their brains and thinking about what is important in life or when it comes to take responsibility of any kind - no matter how small?

 

I would rather trust EA - than them, really!

[Il Divo]

I think that had to do with Bioware starting two brand new franchises back to back. ME and DA. They cost plenty to make, and they didn't have a huge fanbase at that point.

 

 

Case in point: the old fans couldn't sustain them. Wikipedia, which granted is liable to be modified, indicates that Bioware was acquired by Elevation Partners in late 2005, 7 months after Jade Empire's release. 

 

 

Selling out to EA is worse than Bioware not making AA titles. EA will milk the company for the franchises they have created, and then close the doors. They have done the same time and time again to other companies. This is why they are trying to cater the games to the most casual of gamers. The recent games have been so simplified that they border on being insulting to the players. This is done for one reason only. More immediate sales. The people behind the great games Bioware will be remembered for have all left the ship, and jumped over to kickstarter projects in order to make proper rpgs.

 

And what was the alternative? Making the games that only the BG vets wanted them to make? Again, they moved away from that design philosophy as soon as they made KotOR and told everyone who liked Vancian Casting to buzz off. That's what I find amusing about this. You actually think this is a post-EA position, when Bioware released two games pre-EA which are about as simplified as DA:I, if not more so, one of which employed tps mechanics and can be regarded as a Gears of War clone. The idea that Bioware themselves wanted to make AAA games driven by cinematics and disregard old school mechanics couldn't possibly enter the picture. 

 

What we are getting from EA now is pretty much some "Justin Bieber" version of rpgs. Pretty much pure action games with 1-2 rpg elements in there so that it still qualifies as an rpg. Even the manuals are gone from their games, because they don't even need them anymore. The game constantly spoonfeeds you what to do, what to click, etc. And even despite of this, one of the EA bosses tells the press that their games are still too hard for their target audience. Let that one sink in. A game that requires you to cast 1 spell before every battle, and then button mash for the rest of it, is something that is considered to be too hard to do. Alternatively you can just place your face on the keyboard and just roll it all over the keyboard while drooling, and win every fight easily by doing that. Which is something I suspect some of the new fans are doing anyway.

 

 

See, this is a typical example of the EA-hate train. Yes, EA has garbage press, this is nothing new. You can hate DA:I. But the notion of these pure action games with 1-2 RPG elements isn't a recent phenomenon. They started it up in 2005. I certainly didn't need a manual with my copy of Jade Empire or Mass Effect. 

[Rizilliant]

You are right! ME1 happened because of Microsoft and Bioware's exclusive deal with them. The problem is that Bioware was in financial trouble. The old fan base was not in a position to sustain Bioware. Bioware needed capital that is why they formed a partnership (VG Holding) with Elevation Partners along with Pandemic. Elevation Partners invested $300 million in the partnership. The minute Bioware formed the partnership it was no longer in control of its future.

 

Elevation Partners wanted a return on their investment. Bioware was not in a position to buyout Elevation partners. Elevation parnters put the partnership up for sell. EA bought the partnership for over $800 million. That made everyone who had a stake in VG Holding rich.

 

Without Elevation Partners and EA Bioware would have most likely closed its doors.

in all honesty, it would have been for the best.. It was all down hill from there imho... Each new edition has been less, and less...As far as im concerned, ME1, and Origins are the final products of a great rpg developer.. Every single release afterwards, was a clear intervening of EA... Begin the era of DLC!

[Rizilliant]

How is collecting Matriarch's who-gives-a-crap writings or the Turian flags or whatever different from bottles or shards? Those are ME1 side quests. As are random locations with 0 dialogue in literal abandoned wastelands.

Read the posts... We've stated why several times

[Rizilliant]

Dbl Post: Deleted 

[Il Divo]

in all honesty, it would have been for the best.. It was all down hill from there imho... Each new edition has been less, and less...As far as im concerned, ME1, and Origins are the final products of a great rpg developer.. Every single release afterwards, was a clear intervening of EA... Begin the era of DLC!

 

http://nwn.wikia.com.../Premium_module

 

It started a long time ago. 

[Argazaar]

Putting it here, as it seems the best place. I agree with OP even though for a different reason.

 

I have sunk 75 hours into my first DA:I play. I did enjoy it. The world was great, the story was great, the characters and their interactions were also great.

 

However, despite that, I'm quite disappointed with the game. I replayed DA:O and DA II several times and loved it every time. I have replayed ME trilogy so many times I just need to close my eyes and see it all unfold before me. DA:I, though, I have absolutely no desire to replay. Played it once, don't see any point in it anymore.

 

The world may be vast and open, however Bioware is misunderstanding here something. The vastness is not the important thing. Things get old very quickly and DA:I has nothing else to lean on. The story and characters are great, however your decisions have such a completely insignificant impact it's not even funny. Even DA II is so much superior in this regard. Deciding the fate of Bethany (or killing off Carver), Anderson, Isabella, siding with Mages or Templars, etc. Many of these were cosmetic decisions, however the impact was clearly shown and felt in the story, both at the moment the decision was made and as the story progressed further. DA:I's decisions are a note on the side. With few small exceptions, you make a decision and you never hear about it again. At most written somewhere non-important.

 

Skyrim works as an open world not only because it's huge but also because of it's modding community, always bringing something new. DA:I, on the other hand, you play once and what other reason do you have to get back to? I don't need to explore everything again - what a waste of my time. I re-play Bioware games because I can impact the world and people in it in a different way, even if it's through shitty cosmetic decisions. In DA:I, where the feeling of impact from different decisions was sacrificed in favor of open world, it's just pointless.

 

Not to mention those character romances... Game developer whose brand was built on romance deciding to limit our choices to characters many people don't like (as romance options, that is)? Like Sera or Cassandra? Was feedback from DA II, where you had to choose between a pure non-appealing tomboy or a pirate **** not enough? Which idiot sits with his thumb up his ass and makes these decisions? Games are played to be enjoyed. You want to introduce "unique" characters such as these, great - I don't mind... However, make them minority and give us more enjoyable "mainstream" romance options. Plainly beautiful, enjoyable character types like Josephine, Morrigan, Tali, Miranda, Ash or Liara (ME2 and 3 one, that is). I play games as entertainment, as a fantasy where as many things as possible are just ideal. The chance of you completely missing that ideal exponentially increase with your deviation to uniqueness, either physical (Cassandra) or character-related (Sera). Why are you purposefully trying to maim one of the reasons why people play your games and why they want to replay them?

 

DA:I is still and enjoyable game, however it's a step in the wrong direction. I do understand it's all about profit and as long as DA:I has good sales, Bioware will continue changing things accordingly. However, personally, I currently feel like I won't be buying the next DA/other franchise game from Bioware (we will see about ME4 - I hope it will offer another ME experience, rather than DA one)... The games may be good, however they increasingly don't offer things I seek from Bioware. Great stories with great characters and romance, where your decisions matter. Why should I waste my money, when I can eventually get the games from other sources for free, play them once and forget about them the next day? I remember many memorable scenes from ME and first two DA games and different routes I took while role-playing as different characters. Even though increasingly spoiled by ME3 ending and DA II romance options (and gameplay, but I can live through that). DA:I? I remember only Josephine, Varric, the event that concluded with march to Skyhold, Winter Palace ball and politics and few great companion moments. All together maybe 5% of the whole games. With only one play-through and absolutely no desire to play it again and try different decisions (what for? they have no impact). All else? Just unfocused, blurry, linear mush. Make the story more compact and focused. Show us how our decisions change the world and people around us. Introduce better female romances (as a male gamer)... Rather than increase the size of the world. Bethesda will always 100% outclass you in that department; not to mention it's not why people buy and enjoy Bioware games in the first play.

 

For other posters, no need to reply to this. I don't visit these forums nor do I plan to in the future. Just wanted Bioware to hear the feedback. While I believe it to be nearly completely pointless and ignored from Bioware's side, one can still hope. On that note, I think I will go and replay ME2 and ME3. Writing this made me actually want to do so again. This time, maybe I will finally forgive Ashley for ME2 and her doubts.

[Saphiron123]

How is collecting Matriarch's who-gives-a-crap writings or the Turian flags or whatever different from bottles or shards? Those are ME1 side quests. As are random locations with 0 dialogue in literal abandoned wastelands.

Well, for starters there's 115 freaking shards. Spread across multiple giant empty maps, that open a temple with no unqieu story that culminates in a bloody pride demon fight. What an incredible waste of time.

It's 100x worse.

[Rizilliant]

Case in point: the old fans couldn't sustain them. Wikipedia, which granted is liable to be modified, indicates that Bioware was acquired by Elevation Partners in late 2005, 7 months after Jade Empire's release. 

 

 

And what was the alternative? Making the games that only the BG vets wanted them to make? Again, they moved away from that design philosophy as soon as they made KotOR and told everyone who liked Vancian Casting to buzz off. That's what I find amusing about this. You actually think this is a post-EA position, when Bioware released two games pre-EA which are about as simplified as DA:I, if not more so, one of which employed tps mechanics and can be regarded as a Gears of War clone. The idea that Bioware themselves wanted to make AAA games driven by cinematics and disregard old school mechanics couldn't possibly enter the picture. 

 

 

See, this is a typical example of the EA-hate train. Yes, EA has garbage press, this is nothing new. You can hate DA:I. But the notion of these pure action games with 1-2 RPG elements isn't a recent phenomenon. They started it up in 2005. I certainly didn't need a manual with my copy of Jade Empire or Mass Effect. 

KotOR, Origins, and ME1 were action/rpg's, and were widely accepted as success.. To this day, theyre still in demand.. They arent the isometric crpgs of BG, but Origins was created as BG2 spiritual successor, that could be played as an action/turn based strategy.. As a fan of those "old timer" games, i see no problem making a different title, in a different style.. Its not like they called it BG3, and put it in the 3rd person.. They made 3 new IP's, and were very successful in doing so! 

 

And as a matter of fatc, had they NOT gone with EA (or had the decision not too) in hindsight, we can see they would have (on their own) been resounding, fiscal success with 2 of those 3 IP's.(Dragon Age, Mass Effect).. 

 

Nothgn wrong with making different styles of game.. But dont change the game in the middle of a series, to a completely different genre, and call it part 2, or 3...DA would clearly have been a massive success had it been Origins 2, and 3.. Mass Effect would have been successful had it stayed in the style of ME1.. The entire Rpg genre was a "niche" genre, not just Bioware.. Its only become insanely popular, in the last decade, as its now "cool" to be a nerd, in this technology generation!

[Rizilliant]

Well, for starters there's 115 freaking shards. Spread across multiple giant empty maps, that open a temple with no unqieu story that culminates in a bloody pride demon fight. What an incredible waste of time.

It's 100x worse.

If he read the posts, he would have known why before he even responded...It never pays to jump the middle of a conversation..

[Rawgrim]

http://nwn.wikia.com.../Premium_module

 

It started a long time ago. 

 

 

NWN also came with th toolkit, so players could make their own modules any time. That makes it different.

[Rawgrim]

Case in point: the old fans couldn't sustain them. Wikipedia, which granted is liable to be modified, indicates that Bioware was acquired by Elevation Partners in late 2005, 7 months after Jade Empire's release. 

 

 

And what was the alternative? Making the games that only the BG vets wanted them to make? Again, they moved away from that design philosophy as soon as they made KotOR and told everyone who liked Vancian Casting to buzz off. That's what I find amusing about this. You actually think this is a post-EA position, when Bioware released two games pre-EA which are about as simplified as DA:I, if not more so, one of which employed tps mechanics and can be regarded as a Gears of War clone. The idea that Bioware themselves wanted to make AAA games driven by cinematics and disregard old school mechanics couldn't possibly enter the picture. 

 

 

See, this is a typical example of the EA-hate train. Yes, EA has garbage press, this is nothing new. You can hate DA:I. But the notion of these pure action games with 1-2 RPG elements isn't a recent phenomenon. They started it up in 2005. I certainly didn't need a manual with my copy of Jade Empire or Mass Effect. 

 

I don't hate DA:I. I gave it a 6 out of 10.

 

I am sure you didn't need a manual for ME or JE, but I am also sure you didn't need to be spoonfed everything you needed to do and click on, during the entire playtime either?

[Rizilliant]

Like I said.. The entire rpg genre was a small, niche populace.. It wasnt an overflowing player community, as it is now.. You cant throw a stone now, without hitting 10 new rpg's.. The PC gaming community, wasnt terribly huge..

[Il Divo]

NWN also came with th toolkit, so players could make their own modules any time. That makes it different.

 

Makes it different from what? It's the exact same practice. Bioware offering players over-priced dlc? That seems to be exactly what happened. Is it different, comparatively speaking, from Bioware promising ME1 players there would be story dlc and later on contradicting themselves, pissing off some fans? Or from promising the same thing with ME2 and annoying others because they thought Lair of the Shadow Broker and Arrival should have been free? 

[Rawgrim]

Like I said.. The entire rpg genre was a small, niche populace.. It wasnt an overflowing player community, as it is now.. You cant throw a stone now, without hitting 10 new rpg's.. The PC gaming community, wasnt terribly huge..

 

Correction: "You can't throw a some now, without hitting 10 Action-games claiming to be rpgs"

 

Rpgs were on the rise, though. MMOs were popping up. Fallout, BG, and Morrowind were huge hits etc.

[wolfhowwl]

KotOR, Origins, and ME1 were action/rpg's, and were widely accepted as success.. To this day, theyre still in demand.. They arent the isometric crpgs of BG, but Origins was created as BG2 spiritual successor, that could be played as an action/turn based strategy.. As a fan of those "old timer" games, i see no problem making a different title, in a different style.. Its not like they called it BG3, and put it in the 3rd person.. They made 3 new IP's, and were very successful in doing so! 

 

And as a matter of fatc, had they NOT gone with EA (or had the decision not too) in hindsight, we can see they would have (on their own) been resounding, fiscal success with 2 of those 3 IP's.(Dragon Age, Mass Effect).. 

 

Nothgn wrong with making different styles of game.. But dont change the game in the middle of a series, to a completely different genre, and call it part 2, or 3...DA would clearly have been a massive success had it been Origins 2, and 3.. Mass Effect would have been successful had it stayed in the style of ME1.. The entire Rpg genre was a "niche" genre, not just Bioware.. Its only become insanely popular, in the last decade, as its now "cool" to be a nerd, in this technology generation!

 

What was the style of ME1?

 

Awful combat that controlled like ****?

 

An engine that felt like it was coming apart at the seams?

 

An empty world filled with the dullest side content imaginable? That ****** Mako?

 

RPG elements that were shallow (the skill trees) or so **** that they brought down the entire game (inventory, looting)?

 

A dull cast, poor dialogue, and pacing from hell?

 

ME1 was a bad game saved from bombing by absurdly overhyped reviews and a developer's existing legacy fanbase.

[wolfhowwl]

Case in point: the old fans couldn't sustain them. Wikipedia, which granted is liable to be modified, indicates that Bioware was acquired by Elevation Partners in late 2005, 7 months after Jade Empire's release. 

 

 

And what was the alternative? Making the games that only the BG vets wanted them to make? Again, they moved away from that design philosophy as soon as they made KotOR and told everyone who liked Vancian Casting to buzz off. That's what I find amusing about this. You actually think this is a post-EA position, when Bioware released two games pre-EA which are about as simplified as DA:I, if not more so, one of which employed tps mechanics and can be regarded as a Gears of War clone. The idea that Bioware themselves wanted to make AAA games driven by cinematics and disregard old school mechanics couldn't possibly enter the picture. 

 

 

See, this is a typical example of the EA-hate train. Yes, EA has garbage press, this is nothing new. You can hate DA:I. But the notion of these pure action games with 1-2 RPG elements isn't a recent phenomenon. They started it up in 2005. I certainly didn't need a manual with my copy of Jade Empire or Mass Effect. 

 

I remember reading a comment by an ex-BioWare guy now at Beamdog that Jade Empire flopped so hard that MS paid BioWare to get out of a deal with them, lol.

[Rawgrim]

Makes it different from what? It's the exact same practice. Bioware offering players over-priced dlc? That seems to be exactly what happened. Is it different, comparatively speaking, from Bioware promising ME1 players there would be story dlc and later on contradicting themselves, pissing off some fans? Or from promising the same thing with ME2 and annoying others because they thought Lair of the Shadow Broker and Arrival should have been free? 

 

Its different because they GAVE the customers the toolkit to make their own modules (for free). Now they charge for everything. Even to just "unlock" content that was already in the game when you bought it, like that Prothean dlc in ME3.

 

EA even charged for the demo of DA:I this time. So yeah. Giving away the toolkit for the game so you can basically make 100 games of your own, and charging money for stuff that is already on the discs you paid for is quite different.

 

I have no issue with anyone charging money for brand new story content, though.

[Rawgrim]

What was the style of ME1?

 

Awful combat that controlled like ****?

 

An engine that felt like it was coming apart at the seams?

 

An empty world filled with the dullest side content imaginable? That ****** Mako?

 

RPG elements that were shallow (the skill trees) or so **** that they brought down the entire game (inventory, looting)?

 

A dull cast, poor dialogue, and pacing from hell?

 

ME1 was a bad game saved from bombing by absurdly overhyped reviews and a developer's existing legacy fanbase.

 

Are you sure you are talking about ME1 and not DA:I?

[Il Divo]

KotOR, Origins, and ME1 were action/rpg's, and were widely accepted as success.. To this day, theyre still in demand.. They arent the isometric crpgs of BG, but Origins was created as BG2 spiritual successor, that could be played as an action/turn based strategy.. As a fan of those "old timer" games, i see no problem making a different title, in a different style.. Its not like they called it BG3, and put it in the 3rd person.. They made 3 new IP's, and were very successful in doing so! 

 

 

 

But not successful enough to sustain what you consider the superior pre-EA experience. Saying "they're still in demand" means nothing. Bioware made KotOR, Neverwinter Nights, and Baldur's Gate, all very known among the RPG community. And then they went bankrupt. 

 

That doesn't scream to me they knew what they were doing. 

 

And as a matter of fatc, had they NOT gone with EA (or had the decision not too) in hindsight, we can see they would have (on their own) been resounding, fiscal success with 2 of those 3 IP's.(Dragon Age, Mass Effect).

 

Nothgn wrong with making different styles of game.. But dont change the game in the middle of a series, to a completely different genre, and call it part 2, or 3...DA would clearly have been a massive success had it been Origins 2, and 3.. Mass Effect would have been successful had it stayed in the style of ME1.. The entire Rpg genre was a "niche" genre, not just Bioware.. Its only become insanely popular, in the last decade, as its now "cool" to be a nerd, in this technology generation!

 

 

 If the game is dumbed down, it's dumbed down. Whether it's a sequel is irrelevant. Case in point: Bioware making Jade Empire. The mechanics exist regardless of their franchise. And both Jade Empire and Mass Effect can be facerolled about as easily as DA:I, if not more so. If you're actually serious about the "herp derp, faceroll keyboard", you would take note that Bioware has willingly gone that route of their volition. 

 

And ME2 was a critical success, both amongst professional critics and the fan base. 

[Rawgrim]

KotOR, Origins, and ME1 were action/rpg's, and were widely accepted as success.. To this day, theyre still in demand.. They arent the isometric crpgs of BG, but Origins was created as BG2 spiritual successor, that could be played as an action/turn based strategy.. As a fan of those "old timer" games, i see no problem making a different title, in a different style.. Its not like they called it BG3, and put it in the 3rd person.. They made 3 new IP's, and were very successful in doing so! 

 

And as a matter of fatc, had they NOT gone with EA (or had the decision not too) in hindsight, we can see they would have (on their own) been resounding, fiscal success with 2 of those 3 IP's.(Dragon Age, Mass Effect).. 

 

Nothgn wrong with making different styles of game.. But dont change the game in the middle of a series, to a completely different genre, and call it part 2, or 3...DA would clearly have been a massive success had it been Origins 2, and 3.. Mass Effect would have been successful had it stayed in the style of ME1.. The entire Rpg genre was a "niche" genre, not just Bioware.. Its only become insanely popular, in the last decade, as its now "cool" to be a nerd, in this technology generation!

 

Kotor and Origins were not action rpgs. They had plenty of non combat skills, and they didn't rely on the player's physical timing and physical reflexes to play.

[SofaJockey]

The tomb raider reboot? Where she is on the island in the Pacific? That was fun. Loved the climbing but the parachute kills me everytime! I was very happily surprised by that one.

The fetch/collections quests fit the story and gameplay very well.
The bow was great too.

 

Yes, that was an excellent game.

But short - left me wanting more (roll on Dec 2015)...