Also, keep in mind the protagonist is an avatar of the player. He must represent the player's philosophy and mentality, not try to corner him into making predetermined choices. It's the player's right to establish his avatar's morality.
Second, as there are players who'll discriminate gender and sex orientation, there are others who won't and characters who either will or won't.
Either way, the game remains democratic.
The argument of the thread owner is right.
If Bioware includes discrimination and racism in its games - not in a negative way, but to render its fictional worlds as close as possible to reality -, showing things like:
segregation toward minorities such as elves (who are abused by their masters, live in alienages and are called knife-ear)
racism against Qunari: Javaris calls them horn heads and the average citizens of Kirkwall hate the qunari presence (with the exception of the elves)
racism and segregation between people of same origin - Abelas doesn't recognise an elven Inquisitor as one of their own; Dalish discriminate city elves
religious intolerance - the Chantry see the Qunari and Tevinters as heretic. It also condemns mages on principle, keeping them on a leash and turning a blind eye to abuses within the Circle
then the prejudice regarding sexual orientation should've been present as well, since the player expressing his personal views (imbued with his prejudices) is considered normal.
There are even characters who'll express their prejudice toward you (sometimes without reason or provocation), like Sten and his diatribe of women can't fight.
Bioware is usually very open minded and designs mature entertainment. Showing such reality is not mature enough? Prejudices exist, are part of the franchise and the guy just pointed out another one that should've been present.
If the matter is bothersome, then the many examples of racism and discrimination in the game should also bother in the same proportion.
I don't remember any instances where your own character is someone who embrace these notions and this is what the OP is asking for.
Your character never calls elves "knife ears" and Qunari "horn heads", never questions how Leliana and Morrigan can fight, you can be disdainful of Andraste and that's about it.
Also, keep in mind the protagonist is an avatar of the player. He must represent the player's philosophy and mentality, not try to corner him into making predetermined choices. It's the player's right to establish his avatar's morality.
It's still Bioware's character, they can write the protagonist anyway they want
Along with the fact they have a word budget
Not actually true, there are homophobic persons in Thedas, even outside Tevinter. Hawke's uncle was homophobic.
While Thedas is not homophobic, individuals can be,
People being homophobic does not disprove or discredit the assertion that homosexuality isn't a big deal.
Agree with you OP. Also don't you just love how if you miss one flirt chance with Cassandra, you are pretty much screwed out of relationship with you. But if you skip Dorian flirts, even 5 times in a row, almost every dialogue option has one. [..]
Modifié par BioWareMod02, 23 février 2015 - 02:44 .
inappropriate comment
I dont see how people can agree with the op..
The argument of the thread owner is right.
If Bioware includes discrimination and racism in its games - not in a negative way, but to render its fictional worlds as close as possible to reality -, showing things like:
segregation toward minorities such as elves (who are abused by their masters, live in alienages and are called knife-ear)
racism against Qunari: Javaris calls them horn heads and the average citizens of Kirkwall hate the qunari presence (with the exception of the elves)
racism and segregation between people of same origin - Abelas doesn't recognise an elven Inquisitor as one of their own; Dalish discriminate city elves
religious intolerance - the Chantry see the Qunari and Tevinters as heretic. It also condemns mages on principle, keeping them on a leash and turning a blind eye to abuses within the Circle
then the prejudice regarding sexual orientation should've been present as well, since the player expressing his personal views (imbued with his prejudices) is considered normal.
There are even characters who'll express their prejudice toward you (sometimes without reason or provocation), like Sten and his diatribe of women can't fight.
Bioware is usually very open minded and designs mature entertainment. Showing such reality is not mature enough? Prejudices exist, are part of the franchise and the guy just pointed out another one that should've been present.
If the matter is bothersome, then the many examples of racism and discrimination in the game should also bother in the same proportion.
Here's where I see an issue with your argument:
1.) The avatar is not completely yours to set. There are many things that your avatar can't do. The writer sets this in line with his/her vision for the character. You can influence parts of it, but you don't have complete say on your character. For example, you can't murder anyone you see. You also can't be overtly racist or homophobic.
2.) The difference between your examples of discrimination and what the OP is asking for is that there aren't any real world elves, dwarves, mages, and qunari playing the game. There is a distinct difference.
I think your issue likes with Bioware deciding to write Herald as a specific person allowing for slight differences instead as Warden from DA:O with replies being more extreme.
I am glad for once there is a developer keeping it sane. We don't see threads asking for Herald to be able to shout at Vivienne "You dirty <insert the well-known racist slur>!", after all. And thank goodness at least for that.
meh the racism was really toned down IMOYeah, except for all the other racism and prejudice.
1. BioWare isn't required to be "fair" about anything. They aren't required to represent anyone's politics or point of view. The fact that in this case, they didn't represent yours isn't a failing on their part. They didn't allow players to spread slavery, or institute communism, either. Fulfilling every player's potential political agenda is not one of their jobs.
2. Speaking of agendas, including a variety of sexualities, and telling stories about them, is not an agenda, any more than including characters with different skin colours, or points of view is. If Dorion represents an agenda, then so does Cassandra, so does Solas, so does Josephine. Using the term "agenda" to describe the inclusion of a character, or their personal story, is representative of your own politics, not those of the story's writers.
3. The story at hand is a fundamentally heroic one, and the options presented are attached to that notion. There weren't a lot of "dark" or "Renegade" options this time around. That doesn't particularly bother me, but it is a legitimate criticism to point out that options for behaving in a less than altruistic fashion were fairly limited this time around. If you weren't specifically focused on Dorion's homosexuality, I might have been able to believe that this was your criticism, but by making it about a specific political issue, it sounds more like you're the one with an "agenda."
Note: The above does not have anything to do with my personal opinion of the quality of the story, which is mixed, like most people's.
Agree with you OP. Also don't you just love how if you miss one flirt chance with Cassandra, you are pretty much screwed out of relationship with you. But if you skip Dorian flirts, even 5 times in a row, almost every dialogue option has one. I think one of the patches will probably force click one if you don't do it and have dorian butt raping you before you can hit cntl - alt - delete or escape out of there.
I'm glad that Bioware did not include the responses you are asking for. Homophobia does not get a representation.
The lack of that response is accurate and true to the Thedas lore, considering the codex entry #78: sexuality in Thedas:
What I find most interesting is that, despite the lack of open discussion on matters of human sexuality, there is commonality to be found on the subject in all Andrastian lands. Typically, ones sexual habits are considered natural and separate from matters of procreation, and only among the nobility, where procreation involves issues of inheritance and the union of powerful families, is it considered of vital importance. Yet, even there, a noble who has done their duty to the family might be allowed to pursue their own sexual interests without raising eyebrows. The view on indulging lusts with a member of the same gender varies from land to land. In Orlais, it is considered a quirk of character and nothing more. In Ferelden, it is a matter of scandal if done indiscreetly but otherwise nothing noteworthy. In Tevinter, it is considered selfish and deviant behavior among nobles, but actively encouraged with favored slaves. Nowhere is it forbidden, and sex of any kind is only considered worthy of judgement when taken to awful excess or performed in the public eye.
—From In Pursuit of Knowledge: The Travels of a Chantry Scholar by Brother Genitivi
Also, keep in mind the protagonist is an avatar of the player. He must represent the player's philosophy and mentality
Actually, no. The protagonist has to be written and performed, which means including every potential player's philosophy and mentality is impossible.
And the avatar is not meant to represent the player. We are not elves, dwarves, or horned people from Thedas. It's an RPG, which stands for Role-Playing Game. It means you are taking on a character other than yourself.
Guest_Roly Voly_*
No, they're not being fair to both sides about it. And I'm absolutely happy about that.
I concur. Some positions don't deserve "equal time" and I'm totally fine with bioware not granting it.
Well that's because the bioware devs are also reptilian and don't want us to catch on to themI feel outraged that Bioware is not acknowledging my beliefs that all governments everywhere are being controlled by Reptilians.
I feel outraged that Bioware is not acknowledging my beliefs that all governments everywhere are being controlled by Reptilians.
Maybe Bioware is just a part of Reptilians' conspiracy.
Edit: Oh, Ninja'd 
. It looks like other people declassified the truth.
Shouldn't everything be inclusive for all viewpoints or is Dragon Age becoming the sounding board only for those of the LGBT community?
Guest_Roly Voly_*
Yeah, I sure am peeved that Inquisition wouldn't let my PC be a raging homophobe, but you wanna know what really grinds my gears?
Rape options.
I mean come on Bioware this a medieval fantasy game, I should be allowed to rape people!
And don't even get me started on the lack of pedophilia. Conner should of been a romance option in Origins is all I'm saying.
Jeez. Bioware sure has wimped out, right fellas.
(Bioware is under no obligation to implement the negative opinions or practices of some its players, especially when those beliefs wouldn't make sense in the setting.)
I have no idea where the OP is coming from.
Still, I must concedede that it was an extremely boring and predictible quest. There was no ambiguity or conflict.
(to Boost32) I think it is more that Gamlen is just a bitter arse. I believe his line of "I guess I don't have to ask which of you is the girl" is also said if you romance Fenris with a female Hawke, though I could be mistaken.
He also says this to a female Hawke who romances Isabela: "I hear you've been slipping it to that pirate s1ut in the Hanged man. What's that like with two women? I've always wondered." Which is pretty freaking gross to say to his neice.
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