94 réponses à ce sujet

[Stronglav]

Hating someone just because he is different what's it called?

Hello WW2!!Did this humanity has learned in the last 70 years??

I don't think so.

[Pasquale1234]

It would still be a weird comment because most keepers we see work on some consoles. That should give her some indication of what they are

Honestly - I thought the keepers were machines until Vigil explained that they are genetically engineered organics.

[RatThing]

Hating someone just because he is different what's it called?

Hating. Racism is discrimination between human ethnic groups. Because humans aren't really inherently different in their nature, the term has legitimately a negative connotation. Aliens are inherently different. And that I think the term is misplaced doesn't mean I support a disrespectful view on other sapient species, but I think you should acknowledge the differences.

 

 

Hello WW2!!Did this humanity has learned in the last 70 years??

I don't think so.

 

Would someone please think of the children .

[Valmar]

Here it is: Link
Search for Stormwaltz, it's Chris L'Etoile's username
 
I'll put a quote here:
  

Dat Google

 

Edit: It seems not to be what you were looking for, but still relevant to the discussion

 

Yes, relevant and I do appreciate that you took effort to find a source.

 

Though this still doesn't say anything about a bug. In fact I'd go as far to say that that the fact that she defends Ashley this way is a sign that it isn't bugged. She doesn't say its bugged, she says she wishes she wrote something else. Her defense of it was basically "well, look! they DO look like animals!" Which isn't a defense that sits well with me. Every single defense I've thus far seen for Ashley has been the same kind of stuff people use to defend racism in the real world.

[Karlone123]

All I'm going to say is that I agree with Valmar. When you have to defend your position with words "it's not racism... not really", then I'm inclined to believe your argument is standing on pretty shaky legs to begin with.

 

Same with "I'm not racist but...".

[Iakus]

Yes, relevant and I do appreciate that you took effort to find a source.

 

Though this still doesn't say anything about a bug. In fact I'd go as far to say that that the fact that she defends Ashley this way is a sign that it isn't bugged. She doesn't say its bugged, she says she wishes she wrote something else. Her defense of it was basically "well, look! they DO look like animals!" Which isn't a defense that sits well with me. Every single defense I've thus far seen for Ashley has been the same kind of stuff people use to defend racism in the real world.

WEll as I said, it's difficult to look up posts that are nearly a decade old.  THe original posts may not even exist any more.  But it did exist.  I suppose someone could try to contact him to confirm the bug (or someone else who worked on the original Mass Effect) but would anyone bother to answer a this point?  So I guess it's just a matter of trust at this point.

 

I was able to find a post that copy/pasted some stuff he said.  It's not the original post, obviously:

 

http://www.gamefaqs....57497495?page=2

 

Spoiler

 This is for anyone who thinks Ashley is racist/xenophobic. It's a post by Chris L'Etoile, who was a writer for BioWare:

"I find it interesting that so many people have stereotyped her as "the racist." At a couple of points she blasts the Terra Firma party as being "bigots," and she openly admires the power of the Destiny Ascension in the Citadel approach cutscene - not quite what you'd expect from a xenophobe.

 

In her first conversation she spells out her thinking pretty explicitly (the bear and dog metaphor), and it's nothing more than a short paraphrase of the most memorable passage in Charles Pelligrino and George Zebrowski's novel "The Killing Star":

When we put our heads together and tried to list everything we could say with certainty about other civilizations, without having actually met them, all that we knew boiled down to three simple laws of alien behavior:

 

1. THEIR SURVIVAL WILL BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN OUR SURVIVAL.
If an alien species has to choose between them and us, they won't choose us. It is difficult to imagine a contrary case; species don't survive by being self-sacrificing.

 

2. WIMPS DON'T BECOME TOP DOGS.
No species makes it to the top by being passive. The species in charge of any given planet will be highly intelligent, alert, aggressive, and ruthless when necessary.

 

3. THEY WILL ASSUME THAT THE FIRST TWO LAWS APPLY TO US.

And it's hard to dispute this. At the least, you could say the krogan live by these rules. It's certainly a more suspicious and pessimistic point of view than most of us are comfortable with. But is it racism, or realism?

 

Anyway. I fully expected some people write her off as a bigot. What surprises me is that no one's pointed out that her position does have some sense. Evidently, I did something very wrong here.

 

To answer a question from... I don't know, tens of pages ago, if you romance her and have persuade, you can convince her to be a bit less extreme in her opinions."

 

As for the "I can't tell the aliens from the animals" line, that was supposed to only be said near keepers, because they DO sort of look like animals, not a sentient alien race.

 

And since I'm sure there are people who don't understand the bear and the dog metaphor, just pay attention. The bear is Saren, the human is the Council, the dog is humanity.

 

Ashley is not racist.

[God]

WEll as I said, it's difficult to look up posts that are nearly a decade old.  THe original posts may not even exist any more.  But it did exist.  I suppose someone could try to contact him to confirm the bug (or someone else who worked on the original Mass Effect) but would anyone bother to answer a this point?  So I guess it's just a matter of trust at this point.

 

I was able to find a post that copy/pasted some stuff he said.  It's not the original post, obviously:

 

http://www.gamefaqs....57497495?page=2

 

Spoiler

 This is for anyone who thinks Ashley is racist/xenophobic. It's a post by Chris L'Etoile, who was a writer for BioWare:

"I find it interesting that so many people have stereotyped her as "the racist." At a couple of points she blasts the Terra Firma party as being "bigots," and she openly admires the power of the Destiny Ascension in the Citadel approach cutscene - not quite what you'd expect from a xenophobe.

 

In her first conversation she spells out her thinking pretty explicitly (the bear and dog metaphor), and it's nothing more than a short paraphrase of the most memorable passage in Charles Pelligrino and George Zebrowski's novel "The Killing Star":

When we put our heads together and tried to list everything we could say with certainty about other civilizations, without having actually met them, all that we knew boiled down to three simple laws of alien behavior:

 

1. THEIR SURVIVAL WILL BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN OUR SURVIVAL.
If an alien species has to choose between them and us, they won't choose us. It is difficult to imagine a contrary case; species don't survive by being self-sacrificing.

 

2. WIMPS DON'T BECOME TOP DOGS.
No species makes it to the top by being passive. The species in charge of any given planet will be highly intelligent, alert, aggressive, and ruthless when necessary.

 

3. THEY WILL ASSUME THAT THE FIRST TWO LAWS APPLY TO US.

And it's hard to dispute this. At the least, you could say the krogan live by these rules. It's certainly a more suspicious and pessimistic point of view than most of us are comfortable with. But is it racism, or realism?

 

Anyway. I fully expected some people write her off as a bigot. What surprises me is that no one's pointed out that her position does have some sense. Evidently, I did something very wrong here.

 

To answer a question from... I don't know, tens of pages ago, if you romance her and have persuade, you can convince her to be a bit less extreme in her opinions."

 

As for the "I can't tell the aliens from the animals" line, that was supposed to only be said near keepers, because they DO sort of look like animals, not a sentient alien race.

 

And since I'm sure there are people who don't understand the bear and the dog metaphor, just pay attention. The bear is Saren, the human is the Council, the dog is humanity.

 

Ashley is not racist.

 

His post doesn't highlight the other positions she holds, only explains by virtue of one analogy that isn't inherently racist.

 

Ashley is a racist.

 

I would say that to Chris L'etoile himself, as he wrote her (and as he speculates, did something very wrong with her).

[Valmar]

@Iakus

 

My issue is trust. Unless I see an official version, its just hearsay. That doesn't mean I think anyone who says "they said it was a bug" is a liar. It just means I don't trust claims without evidence. Not with how insanely easy it is to spread misinformation. Especially when you're dealing with something like this where personal bias can easily hinder validity.

 

Here are the facts I have that I can observe:

 

1. The wiki notes the line being said but makes no mention of it being a bug or such bug existing, despite having a good reputation for making note of such trivia.

 

2. The one direct quote from Chris that can be found has him talking about the scene but he defends it with "they do look alien" and actually talks about HANAR, not keepers. He makes no mention of there being a bug. This would had been a great time to bring up the bug or the keepers yet he suspiciously didn't. He calls that line a "mistake" not a bug.

 

3. No one can find the original post and just point to other users who have claimed to have read it.

 

Given what I can observe here the evidence says that it isn't a bug. #2 especially works in favor of saying there is no bug. That isn't to say that its impossible. I'm just saying that based off the evidence presented, I don't accept it. If someone finds this original post then I will gladly change my stance to reflect the new evidence. Until then, I don't give Ashley a pass on it. If it was a bug he would say it was a bug instead of defending it with "they do look like animals". That is my rational. I don't think I'm being unreasonable with it, either. Not with the evidence I have presently, anyway.

[Kynare]

Ashley was only 25-ish years old during ME1. She was naively loyal to the Alliance and firmly believed that allowing aliens access to their ship wasn't a good idea as it'd only been 30 years since first contact. Regardless if that stemmed from personal bias or not, she had a good point, because Joker did confirm in ME2 that the Alliance didn't trust the aliens Shepard brought on the ship either. It was wise of her to bring it up, and wise of Shepard (as an Alliance commander) to consider that side, assuming they had any merit to their military career.

 

Is it so impossible to believe that she may have matured and changed come ME3? Perhaps they do fail at giving her sufficient content to explain her side or apologize to Shepard (same with Kaidan), but it's not wrong to assume that her views aren't so radical by then considering she'll reconcile with Shepard, rejoin the Normandy and accept the Spectre position. No racist comments during ME3 either.

 

She made insulting comments in ME1, but does that make her a racist for life? Or just understandably young and inexperienced?

 

To be honest, after seeing the reception and people trying to pick her character apart and make assumptions about her, it would have been even better if they just went all out and made her a racial extremist who refuses to even talk to aliens. Give her an eye patch and a cyborg arm while they're at it. 

[Iakus]

@Iakus

 

My issue is trust. Unless I see an official version, its just hearsay. That doesn't mean I think anyone who says "they said it was a bug" is a liar. It just means I don't trust claims without evidence. Not with how insanely easy it is to spread misinformation. Especially when you're dealing with something like this where personal bias can easily hinder validity.

 

Here are the facts I have that I can observe:

 

1. The wiki notes the line being said but makes no mention of it being a bug or such bug existing, despite having a good reputation for making note of such trivia.

 

2. The one direct quote from Chris that can be found has him talking about the scene but he defends it with "they do look alien" and actually talks about HANAR, not keepers. He makes no mention of there being a bug. This would had been a great time to bring up the bug or the keepers yet he suspiciously didn't. He calls that line a "mistake" not a bug.

 

3. No one can find the original post and just point to other users who have claimed to have read it.

 

Given what I can observe here the evidence says that it isn't a bug. #2 especially works in favor of saying there is no bug. That isn't to say that its impossible. I'm just saying that based off the evidence presented, I don't accept it. If someone finds this original post then I will gladly change my stance to reflect the new evidence. Until then, I don't give Ashley a pass on it. If it was a bug he would say it was a bug instead of defending it with "they do look like animals". That is my rational. I don't think I'm being unreasonable with it, either. Not with the evidence I have presently, anyway.

Like I said, the proof may no longer exist.  All I can say is it existed once, but the Internet isn't exactly an ideal repository for archived knowledge.  You may trust the word of others or not.  Or hope that someone official someday confirms it and let that "proof" linger for a few years before it too gets swallowed up.

 

All I can really point to now is the game itself.  Take Ashley to the Citadel and talk to her someplace far away from any Keepers.  She will never say that phrase.  Take her somewhere fairly close to a Keeper, even if it's still out of sight, and she will.  The bug is the radius where she'll say that line, as it's meant ot be closer, and thus more obvious what is triggering it.

 

All I can really point to as "proof"

[Mordokai]

Ashley was only 25-ish years old during ME1. She was naively loyal to the Alliance and firmly believed that allowing aliens access to their ship wasn't a good idea  

 

See, that's why I consider her stupid/hypocritical. She makes mention of Wrex and Garrus and expresses her doubts about them being allowed on Normandy. Really Ashley? You wouldn't allow a member of species who helped in constructing the Normandy onboard? And you have problems with "dumb" krogan mercenary, whom, by his own admonition, race is unable to produce scientists and even if they could, he's just about the furthest thing away from one?

 

Yet, you never make mention of the quarian mechanic who, by her own words, is enthralled by the Normandy, all of it' tech and is slumming right next to that super advanced drive and is making friendly with the chief mechanic. Oh, and her race has a reputation for being thieves, vagrants and, in general, no good doing scoundrels.

 

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[Pasquale1234]

Given what I can observe here the evidence says that it isn't a bug. #2 especially works in favor of saying there is no bug. That isn't to say that its impossible. I'm just saying that based off the evidence presented, I don't accept it. If someone finds this original post then I will gladly change my stance to reflect the new evidence. Until then, I don't give Ashley a pass on it. If it was a bug he would say it was a bug instead of defending it with "they do look like animals". That is my rational. I don't think I'm being unreasonable with it, either. Not with the evidence I have presently, anyway.

I think the bug factor is inferred here:

As for the "I can't tell the aliens from the animals" line, that was supposed to only be said near keepers, because they DO sort of look like animals, not a sentient alien race.

But regardless of authorial intent, I agree the character comes across as racist.

[Valmar]

 No racist comments during ME3 either.

 

Not surprising when the writer is on record saying he regrets the lines that were percieved as racist. I can understand why he'd be more careful with her dialogue next time around. For all I say against Ashley I don't think she was necessarily meant to be a racist character. I just think the writer failed at making her not come off as a racist. Personally I suspect the "Tali's like my sister" angle was pulled out of nowhere just to add more "see, not racist!" to the character. I /never/ got the impression that she had any kind of bond with ANY of the aliens.

 

 

Like I said, the proof may no longer exist.  All I can say is it existed once, but the Internet isn't exactly an ideal repository for archived knowledge.  You may trust the word of others or not.  Or hope that someone official someday confirms it and let that "proof" linger for a few years before it too gets swallowed up.

 

All I can really point to now is the game itself.  Take Ashley to the Citadel and talk to her someplace far away from any Keepers.  She will never say that phrase.  Take her somewhere fairly close to a Keeper, even if it's still out of sight, and she will.  The bug is the radius where she'll say that line, as it's meant ot be closer, and thus more obvious what is triggering it.

 

All I can really point to as "proof"

 Why put proof in quotations?

 

Personally Ashley has always said the animal line in one area of the citadel for me. That being said I fully admit that I never took Ashley with me anymore than I absolutely had to.

 

 

See, that's why I consider her stupid/hypocritical. She makes mention of Wrex and Garrus and expresses her doubts about them being allowed on Normandy. Really Ashley? You wouldn't allow a member of species who helped in constructing the Normandy onboard? And you have problems with "dumb" krogan mercenary, whom, by his own admonition, race is unable to produce scientists and even if they could, he's just about the furthest thing away from one?

 

Yet, you never make mention of the quarian mechanic who, by her own words, is enthralled by the Normandy, all of it' tech and is slumming right next to that super advanced drive and is making friendly with the chief mechanic. Oh, and her race has a reputation for being thieves, vagrants and, in general, no good doing scoundrels.

 

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

 

Yeah, that always struck me as odd as well. I'd be far more understanding of distrusting a quarian engineer than some random former C-Sec officer and random krogan in this context. Though even still I find her complaints to be a bit amusing in a way, considering the nature of how she got aboard the ship herself. She kinda just dropped in our lap yet is all suspicious of these others. If it was a matter of "Hey, we don't know these people, they could be spies or something" okay, theres an argument. Not one I'd agree with but its something. Her reason for being suspicious of them was specifically because they're not human, nothing else was cited.

 

 

I think the bug factor is inferred here:

As for the "I can't tell the aliens from the animals" line, that was supposed to only be said near keepers, because they DO sort of look like animals, not a sentient alien race.
 

 

Yes, certainly. Except this is just a quote from some random forum goer. You're quoting some random person who is supposedly quoting something the writer said. We have no citation of the actual original quote, though, no proof that it exists other than someone on some forum saying "hey, they said it was a bug".

 

There is no actual direct post showing it was actually the writer who said this. Infact the only post we have from the writer has him NOT saying its bug and defending it because hanar look like animals. If you can show me the actual source of this, actual evidence that he said this and not just hearsay then I'll change my position on it. Everything provided thus far has just be the word of someone else. Pass a story around a classroom enough times and see how quickly and easily that story changes. Amplify that by a million and you have the internet.

 

Without a direct source I'm not willing accept this as proof of a bug. Not when we have proof of the writer defending the line and yet suspiciously making no mention of there being a bug.

[JasonShepard]

@Valmar:

 

Purely out of curiosity - even if there was a direct quote from Chris that it was a bug, would it change your opinion of Ashley at all? (I'm asking because it seems strange to be getting hung up over a single line.)

 

(Personally, I'm of the opinion that it was possibly a bug, and I'm pretty sure that the gamefaqs quote is from him, but no, I don't have proof.)

[Iakus]

See, that's why I consider her stupid/hypocritical. She makes mention of Wrex and Garrus and expresses her doubts about them being allowed on Normandy. Really Ashley? You wouldn't allow a member of species who helped in constructing the Normandy onboard? And you have problems with "dumb" krogan mercenary, whom, by his own admonition, race is unable to produce scientists and even if they could, he's just about the furthest thing away from one?

 

Yet, you never make mention of the quarian mechanic who, by her own words, is enthralled by the Normandy, all of it' tech and is slumming right next to that super advanced drive and is making friendly with the chief mechanic. Oh, and her race has a reputation for being thieves, vagrants and, in general, no good doing scoundrels.

 

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Did Garrus help build the Normandy?  No, Garrus is a civilian, on a cutting edge warship. he should be suspicious of him.  As suspicious as a human civilian not cleared to know about the ship's systems.   And Wrex is a mercenary.  He doesn't have to understand tech to sell it.

 

If anything it's Ashley's lack of concern for Tali that's odd.  but she was shown to be taken by her, treating her like a kid sister.

 

And in the end, teh quarians ended up with stealth drives remarkably like the Normandy's

 

Why is it that every thread abou ther has to become a "bash Ash thread"?

[Iakus]

 

 Why put proof in quotations?

 

Personally Ashley has always said the animal line in one area of the citadel for me. That being said I fully admit that I never took Ashley with me anymore than I absolutely had to.

 

Because I'm still not sure people determined to hate Ash  would accept even a direct quote from L'etoile, whatever.  They may doubt that the person really is him, or he's backpedaling, or saying what we want to hear, etc.

 

I am willing to bet, though, that the one area of the Citadel she says that line for you ahs a Keeper nearby.

[Vazgen]

For me she says that line on the Presidium. And there are a lot of keepers there, I can't think of any place that doesn't have a keeper nearby

[Mordokai]

Did Garrus help build the Normandy?  No, Garrus is a civilian, on a cutting edge warship. he should be suspicious of him.  As suspicious as a human civilian not cleared to know about the ship's systems.   And Wrex is a mercenary.  He doesn't have to understand tech to sell it.

 

Garrus is a C-Sec officer, which is kinda far away from a civilian. Furthermore, she wasn't judging him based on his civilian status(or lack of it), but on his race. That's quite different. And again, turians helped build the Normandy... he may have not had his talons in it personally, but do you really think there's anything he could steal that turians don't already know?

 

I'll begrudgingly agree with your point about Wrex, though, much as Valmar pointed out, she had problem with his race, not his employment.

 

 

If anything it's Ashley's lack of concern for Tali that's odd.  but she was shown to be taken by her, treating her like a kid sister.

 

And in the end, teh quarians ended up with stealth drives remarkably like the Normandy's

 

No, she started treating her as kid sister in third game... we get no indications she had those feelings in first game. Which makes it more weird.

 

And your second paragraph kinda doesn't do your argument any favour... though, given the smiley you used, I guess you are well aware of that yourself.

[Valmar]

@Valmar:

 

Purely out of curiosity - even if there was a direct quote from Chris that it was a bug, would it change your opinion of Ashley at all? (I'm asking because it seems strange to be getting hung up over a single line.)

 

(Personally, I'm of the opinion that it was possibly a bug, and I'm pretty sure that the gamefaqs quote is from him, but no, I don't have proof.)

 

It isn't just a single line I'm getting 'hung up' over, though. Ashley's character just projects racism to me, for many reasons. The animals line is just one offense on a rather long list. I also did point out that I don't believe the writer INTENDED on her to be racist. I just think he failed at making that clear. Its obvious based of how often she is criticized for being racist that the character has a racist vibe to her. I don't care if she is "really racist" or not. She still FEELS racist to me. That is the impression her attitude and comments have given me, regardless of what was the real intent.

 

The only reason I'm against the "its a bug" claim with the animal line is because people are defending Ashley's racist comment as being a bug. When there is no provided evidence to say its a bug it comes off as people grasping at straws for an excuse to not view Ashley as racist. It's a weak argument to me. "Oh, that isn't really racist, she isn't even meant to say it, its just a bug."

 

If its a bug, why did the writer defend it without calling it a bug? It seems to me that the writer just did a poor job (he even regrets it) writing the character's dialogue and made her give an impression he wasn't aiming for. If it really is a bug, okay. I'll concede that on a technicality that line isn't necessarily racist. That doesn't get rid of all the other dialogue in the game she has that is laced with the stuff. My impression of the character wouldn't change but I would avoid using the animal comment as a citation against her.

 

Though, if it helps any, I don't care if people keep her alive or romance or whatever. These are just my feelings on the matter, which the OP was asking for. I think she is racist and I don't like her character. She isn't worth it to me. I gave my reasons why. If the OP agrees with my argument, lovely. If not, also lovely. It doesn't matter much to me what side he decides to take, I'm not looking to change hearts and minds here. Just providing my own opinion. I'd usually say "go with whoever you like most" or something but he made it clear he doesn't want that type of response, lol.

 

 

Did Garrus help build the Normandy?  No, Garrus is a civilian, on a cutting edge warship. he should be suspicious of him.  As suspicious as a human civilian not cleared to know about the ship's systems.   And Wrex is a mercenary.  He doesn't have to understand tech to sell it.

 

If anything it's Ashley's lack of concern for Tali that's odd.  but she was shown to be taken by her, treating her like a kid sister.

 

And in the end, teh quarians ended up with stealth drives remarkably like the Normandy's

 

Why is it that every thread abou ther has to become a "bash Ash thread"?

 

Garrus was a C-Sec officer. Not a civilian. Even if he was that wasn't the grounds for why she was against him. It was specifically due to race. Even if there was justification it is still racism when your only reason cited is "they're aliens".

 

Wrex I can understand being suspcious of. Just not for the reasons or in the context that she is. She's worried about a krogan stealing Normandy secrets. That seems like a stretch. Her reason for this worry isn't even because he's a merc, its because he's an alien. At least with Liara her mistrust was presented with something other than "she isn't human".

 

The Tali sister connection was something only squeezed in ME3 if I remember correctly. I've given my thoughts on that though.

 

It is suspicious isnt it? Though I imagine she took those schematics in ME2 when the Normandy was a Cerberus vessel. Seems kinda fitting, really. She even sounds like shes conspiring something when she gets on the ship. Note the tone in her line to Jacob when he tells her she'll have full access to the systems. I have no issue with her taking things from Cerberus - especially given Cerberus' history with the quarians. It's the least they can do.

 

Interestingly I bet you'll find the most common complaint about Ashley to be her racism. If so many people feel she is racist, regardless of whether or not she is "really racist" wouldn't you say that's a sign that the writer messed up somewhere?

 

 

Because I'm still not sure people determined to hate Ash  would accept even a direct quote from L'etoile, whatever.  They may doubt that the person really is him, or he's backpedaling, or saying what we want to hear, etc.

 

I am willing to bet, though, that the one area of the Citadel she says that line for you ahs a Keeper nearby.

 

My personal feelings towards Ash do not change facts. If he actually said it, its fact. Beyond that it isn't like the animals line is the only thing I'm citing against her character here. There have been a great many things brought up against her. Even if that one was struck from the list doesn't suddenly redeem her of all shortcomings.

[Iakus]

Garrus is a C-Sec officer, which is kinda far away from a civilian. Furthermore, she wasn't judging him based on his civilian status(or lack of it), but on his race. That's quite different. And again, turians helped build the Normandy... he may have not had his talons in it personally, but do you really think there's anything he could steal that turians don't already know?

 

I'll begrudgingly agree with your point about Wrex, though, much as Valmar pointed out, she had problem with his race, not his employment.

 

Garrus is still a foreign national.  His status as a C-Sec officer makes him the equivalent of a cop, or perhaps a federal agent.  Either way, unlikely to have the clearances that would undoubtably be needed to hang out on an advanced warship.  You think Conrad Verner would have been allowed on the Normandy?  He's human, after all.

 

And while turians may have helped build the Normandy, not all of it is turian tech.  The Tantalus drive core, for example is I believe purely human tech.

 

 

 

No, she started treating her as kid sister in third game... we get no indications she had those feelings in first game. Which makes it more weird.

And your second paragraph kinda doesn't do your argument any favour... though, given the smiley you used, I guess you are well aware of that yourself.

 

 

Actually, the banter between Ashley and Tali is quite friendly in ME1:

 

Ashley: Are you okay, Tali? It looked like you got some dirty looks back there.

Tali: Many think less of quarians for traveling in the flotilla, and for creating the geth. They see us as scavengers, little better than thieves.

Ashley: That is sort of what I’d heard about your people. I guess you’re not in any one place long enough for people to get to know you.

 

And yes, I was noting that the one civilian on board Ashley didn't seem worried about appears to have given her people a bit of an edge in "discovering" stealth technology.