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Why can't we have a romance option like Isabella for straight male gamers?


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#626
jeromefiefdom

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You got it.   :)

 

The thread has been all over the place, but a lot of it has been because of the redundancy of the topic.  From that poster alone, most of us posting in response have seen several  threads about this topic starting from this weekend.   It isn't just that the topic in-and-of itself is pretty shallow, but many of us are losing track at the number of times we've seen rant this since October alone.   We do talk about the topic, but we also try to have some fun with it.  Sidetracks are bound to happen, as well as some hijacking.   ;)

 

One night, someone started a thread complaining that there was too many female NPCs.  It was called "Females Everywhere?!?"   You know that the OP wanted this to be taken as a serious issue in Inquisition.  It...backfired.

 

By page three, it was filled with fans of Loghain gushing how hot he was.  Oddly enough, it hit about 37 pages before lock.  We had recipes, discussions about Dr. Who, comparing fish to companions (that's an old joke,) and so many tangents you wouldn't believe it.  I was there for a lot of it and I couldn't believe it.  It literally came down to several non-DA related posts and gifs questioning when the lock was going to hit before it was finally closed.

SOudns positivly lovely, definetly looking forwrd to that in the future (no sarcasm :)). I honestly dont get people who get so upset about this. I mean, games are played by pretty much everyone nowadays, its pretty damn difficult to cater to every taste. That said, Cassandra is extremely attractive to me (Im a straight male). THe sidetrackign sounds almost exactly liek my old times in 9th grade on 4chan (no, its not as bad as tumblr will telll you)



#627
Leo

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He thought Josie was mannish too? :blink:

 

In that one thread he spammed he did, but I guess his opinion changed to being "something about her face looks off".



#628
Grieving Natashina

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SOudns positivly lovely, definetly looking forwrd to that in the future (no sarcasm :)). I honestly dont get people who get so upset about this. I mean, games are played by pretty much everyone nowadays, its pretty damn difficult to cater to every taste. That said, Cassandra is extremely attractive to me (Im a straight male). THe sidetrackign sounds almost exactly liek my old times in 9th grade on 4chan (no, its not as bad as tumblr will telll you)

 

 

I'm a bisexual lady and I think Cassandra is hot.  The main reason why I haven't rolled up a male character to romance her is because I enjoy the friendship with her as a lady Inquisitor too much.  It's just like Morrigan for me all over again.  Morrigan is my favorite DA friendship (note to self, restart that thread) and even though I could either roll a male character or use the Equal Love mod, I enjoy the friendship so much that I don't want to.

 

Only, I was pretty sure that I'd like Cassandra, and I thought I'd hate Morrigan.  Who would've thought?   :P

 

As far as Tumblr goes, never touch the stuff.  The only reason why I would go to Tumblr was David Gaider's blog.  Unfortunately, he's closed it down at the moment.  I try not to let social media sway my opinion.   ;)


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#629
Jeremiah12LGeek

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I am curies why must people like you feel obligated post  Cersei gif and other nonsense until it's locked, just because it's unpopular opinion you must bash OP.

 

I didn't see her post a Cersei gif. Care to provide a quote to justify this oddly directed accusation about her bashing other posters?  :huh:



#630
Paul E Dangerously

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You got it.   :)

 

The thread has been all over the place, but a lot of it has been because of the redundancy of the topic.  From that poster alone, most of us posting in response have seen several  threads about this topic starting from this weekend.   It isn't just that the topic in-and-of itself is pretty shallow, but many of us are losing track at the number of times we've seen rant this since October alone.   We do talk about the topic, but we also try to have some fun with it.  Sidetracks are bound to happen, as well as some hijacking.   ;)

 

One night, someone started a thread complaining that there was too many female NPCs.  It was called "Females Everywhere?!?"   You know that the OP wanted this to be taken as a serious issue in Inquisition.  It...backfired.

 

By page three, it was filled with fans of Loghain gushing how hot he was.  Oddly enough, it hit about 37 pages before lock.  We had recipes, discussions about Dr. Who, comparing fish to companions (that's an old joke,) and so many tangents you wouldn't believe it.  I was there for a lot of it and I couldn't believe it.  It literally came down to several non-DA related posts and gifs questioning when the lock was going to hit before it was finally closed.

 

Honestly, it needs to be discouraged. Either pruned - like it would be in a "serious" topic, or just closed. This "self moderation by deliberately flooding topics with wacky reaction images and off topic stuff because I don't agree" is pretty juvenile. If it's not something you're interested in, then just don't post in it. Let it die or fall off the first page or what have you.

 

It's not required to post in every topic. Self restraint is a thing.

 

I honestly think it wouldn't be as bad if it had ever been allowed to go it's course and actually let people vent - like they have against any number of other issues, no matter how shallow. Given the "I want" threads from the community that are allowed to run endlessly and are equally as vapid, it's not really that unusual. All this does is cause people to post it again, because they feel like they're being drowned out and their opinion isn't heard.


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#631
R0vena

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I think one of the problems with that topic (besides obvious personal preferences) is that it assumes straight male gamer automatically means straight male Inquisitor.

I know a lot of straight males who prefer to play females and couldn't care less how LI's for males looks like.

 

From my personal point of view (female myself), Cass is very pretty and Josy is cute. Never thought Isabela is that hot, liked Merrill much better.))


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#632
SnakeCode

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Honestly, it needs to be discouraged. Either pruned - like it would be in a "serious" topic, or just closed. This "self moderation by deliberately flooding topics with wacky reaction images and off topic stuff because I don't agree" is pretty juvenile. If it's not something you're interested in, then just don't post in it. Let it die or fall off the first page or what have you.

 

It's not required to post in every topic. Self restraint is a thing.

 

I honestly think it wouldn't be as bad if it had ever been allowed to go it's course and actually let people vent - like they have against any number of other issues, no matter how shallow. Given the "I want" threads from the community that are allowed to run endlessly and are equally as vapid, it's not really that unusual. All this does is cause people to post it again, because they feel like they're being drowned out and their opinion isn't heard.

I was going to mention this. Trolling threads to deliberately get them locked needs to stop. If you don't like the message of a thread, by all means post a civil counterargument explaining why you disagree, but don't call the OP (or his/her entire gender) names and generalize a whole group of people. Trying to censor people you disagree with is never the answer.


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#633
AresKeith

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Honestly, it needs to be discouraged. Either pruned - like it would be in a "serious" topic, or just closed. This "self moderation by deliberately flooding topics with wacky reaction images and off topic stuff because I don't agree" is pretty juvenile. If it's not something you're interested in, then just don't post in it. Let it die or fall off the first page or what have you.

 

It's not required to post in every topic. Self restraint is a thing.

 

I honestly think it wouldn't be as bad if it had ever been allowed to go it's course and actually let people vent - like they have against any number of other issues, no matter how shallow. Given the "I want" threads from the community that are allowed to run endlessly and are equally as vapid, it's not really that unusual. All this does is cause people to post it again, because they feel like they're being drowned out and their opinion isn't heard.

 

Which is what the OP did in the first thread he made

 

Then he decided to spam the same thread across the whole forum, along with constantly calling DA:I the "gay game", not to mention than he even spammed the lead writer with this. So yea the OPs thread pretty much are justified to be trolled 


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#634
Panda

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I was going to mention this. Trolling threads to deliberately get them locked needs to stop. If you don't like the message of a thread, by all means post a civil counterargument explaining why you disagree, but don't call the OP (or his/her entire gender) names and generalize a whole group of people. Trying to censor people you disagree with is never the answer.

 

Trolling troll threads sound pretty valid to me.



#635
jeromefiefdom

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I'm a bisexual lady and I think Cassandra is hot.  The main reason why I haven't rolled up a male character to romance her is because I enjoy the friendship with her as a lady Inquisitor too much.  It's just like Morrigan for me all over again.  Morrigan is my favorite DA friendship (note to self, restart that thread) and even though I could either roll a male character or use the Equal Love mod, I enjoy the friendship so much that I don't want to.

 

Only, I was pretty sure that I'd like Cassandra, and I thought I'd hate Morrigan.  Who would've thought?   :P

 

As far as Tumblr goes, never touch the stuff.  The only reason why I would go to Tumblr was David Gaider's blog.  Unfortunately, he's closed it down at the moment.  I try not to let social media sway my opinion.   ;)

 

I can definetly understand that. I love Blackwall's character, but enjoy his camraderie a ton. A friend of mine did use the bi cassandra mod for her use though, and she liked it. I do love the writer blogs (Gaider, Gaiman, Snyder), but tumblr appraoches close mindeness from the other side, so to speak



#636
Grieving Natashina

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Some of my posts have been on topic, some haven't.  When it comes to threads such as the "Females Everywhere?!?" thread, I honestly didn't think it would be allowed to stay in the DA forums as long as it had.

 

Like a lot of conversations, this one has been branching out all over the place.  Sure, we've had a lot of silly gifs and dismissive comments, but most of the thread has actually been discussing why and how another Isabela would not work for all straight men, despite blanket statements made to the contrary.  We've also talked about the OP's insistence that BioWare do something about these "mannish" women and frankly, how immature and silly it ends up sounding.

 

Edit: Nope, not feeding a troll that has been banned on several accounts.


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#637
Jeremiah12LGeek

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I was going to mention this. Trolling threads to deliberately get them locked needs to stop. If you don't like the message of a thread, by all means post a civil counterargument explaining why you disagree, but don't call the OP (or his/her entire gender) names and generalize a whole group of people. Trying to censor people you disagree with is never the answer.

 

The bulk of the conversation has been about Isabela, Dorion, and the various romances, which are, to at least some extent, on topic. I don't think it's correct to characterize this as trolling just because most of the people discussing it don't agree with the OP's oft-stated position.

 

By contrast, the OP spammed the forums with 30-40 threads declaring that Josephine and Cassandra were ugly enough to make him vomit. While that may not be trolling, it is certainly far more inappropriate behaviour than the predominantly civil conversation in here.

 

There is a tendency for certain people (and I'm not accusing you of this, personally, SnakeCode) to accuse members who suggest that requesting certain things are silly, of trolling the OP, and this accusation is inevitably tied to whether or not the accuser agrees with something that the OP said. It is only when they disagree, or are indifferent, that they acknowledge that some of the repeated threads requesting content based on personal taste are silly.

 

Actual examples of people trying to get a thread locked by trolling it are quite rare. Far more common is the tactic of using levity to turn divisive, or acrimoniously-repeated requests into something less negative and hostile.

 

What I think is a mistake, is to assume that spamming threads about asking for specific love interests, or patches to make characters looks different would actually accomplish anything or gain traction if people only posted in them who agreed, or posted their disagreement once and then left.

 

Also, asking no one to converse unless they agree with a thread's premise doesn't make sense, because it is a forum. It simply won't work that way. People are going to converse in a natural ebb and flow, just like in any medium. Again, I'm not accusing you of this, but saying, "they should only be able to converse if they are supporting the positions that I agree with in a serious manner" isn't going to accomplish anything, since no one is obligated to do that (and it's not realistic.)


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#638
Paul E Dangerously

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Which is what the OP did in the first thread he made

 

Then he decided to spam the same thread across the whole forum, along with constantly calling DA:I the "gay game", not to mention than he even spammed the lead writer with this. So yea the OPs thread pretty much are justified to be trolled 

 

I don't mean this thread in general or even this guy's threads, but this type of topic. The "I don't think the DAI Straight Male LIs are very attractive" threads have never been allowed to run their course. Either they got this treatment, or were closed by mods after the topic creator was flamed to death. Thus, you get topic whack-a-mole. This is what happens when something is almost completely squelched.

And no, nothing ever entitles people to act like a petulant jackass, regardless if it's the topic creator or anyone else.

 

Some of my posts have been on topic, some haven't.  When it comes to threads such as the "Females Everywhere?!?" thread, I honestly didn't think it would be allowed to stay in the DA forums as long as it had.

 

Like a lot of conversations, this one has been branching out all over the place.  Sure, we've had a lot of silly gifs and dismissive comments, but most of the thread has actually been discussing why and how another Isabela would not work for all straight men, despite blanket statements made to the contrary.  We've also talked about the OP's insistence that BioWare do something about these "mannish" women and frankly, how immature and silly it ends up sounding.

 

Edit: Nope, not feeding a troll that has been banned on several accounts.

 

You could say this for damn near any of the "Satiate my personal preferences" threads that are allowed to run their course, and many of them Bioware actually listens to. It all boils down to a cry to "give me what I want", which is silly at the best of times.


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#639
AlanC9

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Honestly, it needs to be discouraged. Either pruned - like it would be in a "serious" topic, or just closed. This "self moderation by deliberately flooding topics with wacky reaction images and off topic stuff because I don't agree" is pretty juvenile. If it's not something you're interested in, then just don't post in it. Let it die or fall off the first page or what have you.

This is a bit confused. From what I've seen mockery isn't used on topics that people are uninterested in, it's used on topics that they're opposed to. It's not that people are uninterested in the OP's viewpoint, it's that they think he has terrible taste and implementing his ideas would make the games worse.

Edit: You can make a case that we resort to this stuff too easily, but from what I've seen the OP has forfeited any respect he ordinarily would have deserved.
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#640
AresKeith

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You could say this for damn near any of the "Satiate my personal preferences" threads that are allowed to run their course, and many of them Bioware actually listens to. It all boils down to a cry to "give me what I want", which is silly at the best of times.

 

Not really, if the OP had said he found them unattractive it would be less of an issue but constantly going "they look like men, they look mannish I wanna vomit (recently he even said they look like transgender women) does sound immature 



#641
SnakeCode

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I was talking about threads that are deliberately hijacked like the "females everywhere " thread. Whether the OP was right or wrong in his assessment isn't the point. He wasn't trolling or deliberately baiting anyone, yet people were pretty obviously trying to get the thread locked from the very beginning, posting memes, generalizing insults aimed at "straight white males" and later, recipes.Which is why there's all the surprise that it stayed open for so long. 

 

It isn't so much threads being locked that bothers me, (some are clearly designed to bait people into arguments and those have to be closed,) It's the modding discrepancy. Troll or hurl abuse at an OP like in the females everywhere thread, and no warnings are handed out, and the person being abused is punished by having his/her thread locked. Do it in a thread like say, the Gay KISA  and the offending posters will have their posts removed and the thread will go on. There needs to be some consistency. All trolls and abusive posters need to be reprimanded, not just the ones seen as having conservative views.



#642
Paul E Dangerously

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Not really, if the OP had said he found them unattractive it would be less of an issue but constantly going "they look like men, they look mannish I wanna vomit (recently he even said they look like transgender women) does sound immature 

 

To be fair, the phrasing you have to use on this board in order not to trigger someone and get a flood of scathing responses is so dry and specific you'd need a lawyer to spit it out. Especially when it comes to anything that anyone sees as reflecting on themselves or on real-life standards, which is pretty much the sticking point of this issue.

 

And God help you if you ever use "we" or "our" instead of "I" or "my", because it will inevitably spawn 3x "You don't speak for everyone!" poster.



#643
Panda

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I was talking about threads that are deliberately hijacked like the "females everywhere " thread. Whether the OP was right or wrong in his assessment isn't the point. He wasn't trolling or deliberately baiting anyone, yet people were pretty obviously trying to get the thread locked from the very beginning, posting memes, generalizing insults aimed at "straight white males" and later, recipes.Which is why there's all the surprise that it stayed open for so long. 

 

It isn't so much threads being locked that bothers me, (some are clearly designed to bait people into arguments and those have to be closed,) It's the modding discrepancy. Troll or hurl abuse at an OP like in the females everywhere thread, and no warnings are handed out, and the person being abused is punished by having his/her thread locked. Do it in a thread like say, the Gay KISA  and the offending posters will have their posts removed and the thread will go on. There needs to be some consistency. All trolls and abusive posters need to be reprimanded, not just the ones seen as having conservative views.

 

He was trolling which was quite quickly find out after couple posts he did in that thread. If I remember right it was alternative account as well for troll who posted before under other name.

 

Trolls get trolling, immature people get immature answers. The forest yells back like you yell there.



#644
AresKeith

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To be fair, the phrasing you have to use on this board in order not to trigger someone and get a flood of scathing responses is so dry and specific you'd need a lawyer to spit it out. Especially when it comes to anything that anyone sees as reflecting on themselves or on real-life standards, which is pretty much the sticking point of this issue.

 

And God help you if you ever use "we" or "our" instead of "I" or "my", because it will inevitably spawn 3x "You don't speak for everyone!" poster.

 

They should use I or my. When your making a thread you're generally speaking for yourself, if others happen to agree let them speak up


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#645
(Disgusted noise.)

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I was talking about threads that are deliberately hijacked like the "females everywhere " thread. Whether the OP was right or wrong in his assessment isn't the point. He wasn't trolling or deliberately baiting anyone, yet people were pretty obviously trying to get the thread locked from the very beginning, posting memes, generalizing insults aimed at "straight white males" and later, recipes.Which is why there's all the surprise that it stayed open for so long. 

 

It isn't so much threads being locked that bothers me, (some are clearly designed to bait people into arguments and those have to be closed,) It's the modding discrepancy. Troll or hurl abuse at an OP like in the females everywhere thread, and no warnings are handed out, and the person being abused is punished by having his/her thread locked. Do it in a thread like say, the Gay KISA  and the offending posters will have their posts removed and the thread will go on. There needs to be some consistency. All trolls and abusive posters need to be reprimanded, not just the ones seen as having conservative views.

Not entirely true. I've got one warning and it was from snarking at a known homophobic poster. It was removed as well.



#646
Grieving Natashina

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Not entirely true. I've got one warning and it was from snarking at a known homophobic poster and it was removed as well.

I've never gotten an official warning point, but the same happened to me as well.  I was being a royal jerk to someone I strongly disagreed with, so the post was treated accordingly.   It wasn't my finest moment.



#647
Paul E Dangerously

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They should use I or my. When your making a thread you're generally speaking for yourself, if others happen to agree let them speak up

 

It should be common sense that someone is always speaking for themselves. There's no need for the people that wait like vultures to pounce on something only to rack up another notch on their post count.



#648
daveliam

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It should be common sense that someone is always speaking for themselves. There's no need for the people that wait like vultures to pounce on something only to rack up another notch on their post count.

 

To be fair, anyone using "we" or "us" is likely doing so specifically to try to make their point seem more powerful.  And, if I disagree with that person who is attempting to speak for me, I don't see a problem saying so.  If someone were to claim to speak for you but were saying something you disagree with, wouldn't you point that out? 


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#649
Jeremiah12LGeek

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I was talking about threads that are deliberately hijacked like the "females everywhere " thread. Whether the OP was right or wrong in his assessment isn't the point. He wasn't trolling or deliberately baiting anyone, yet people were pretty obviously trying to get the thread locked from the very beginning, posting memes, generalizing insults aimed at "straight white males" and later, recipes.Which is why there's all the surprise that it stayed open for so long. 

 

Hmm... on that one I'd have to disagree. His opening post was about how having two women in a position of power at the beginning of the game was overwhelming because that's too many women, and unrealistic because women in positions of power was uncommon. Within a page or two, as I recall, he had compounded that by announcing that he was "serious," and that women were naturally unsuited to positions of power, so how could anyone argue otherwise.

 

If he wasn't trolling, and he genuinely believed what he was saying... I somehow won't lose any sleep over his thread getting hijacked, either way. He's probably not a good example. Plus, the people posting in there, for the most part, didn't want the thread locked, because they were having fun. Granted, some of that fun came from the pride of having subverted the premise of the thread by having the female BSN members in a giant free-for-all, but it was a jovial, social conversation, and I don't recall anyone directing hostility at the OP (past the light-hearted sarcasm and mocking of the first few pages.)

 

I didn't participate in that thread much beyond a brief side-eye at the OP on the first page, so I don't have a personal stake in any of it. I thought it was silly, but I certainly didn't find it represented any kind of serious issue with what happens on BSN.

 

It isn't so much threads being locked that bothers me, (some are clearly designed to bait people into arguments and those have to be closed,) It's the modding discrepancy. Troll or hurl abuse at an OP like in the females everywhere thread, and no warnings are handed out, and the person being abused is punished by having his/her thread locked.

 

I didn't see any trolling, or people hurling abuse at the OP. I could have missed it, but I don't think conversing about a different topic than the thread's premise is a hostile thing to do. Also, I don't think you have any way of knowing what warnings may or may not have been handed out, so that's not really a valid point. I don't think locking the thread was punishing the OP, since he had long since abandoned his effort (whether it was trolling or otherwise) and given the sentiment he expressed, I doubt that leaving it open had any hope of accomplishing anything, anyway. BioWare isn't going to stop having female characters in positions of power simply because it offends someone (if they weren't trolling, which I suspect they were.)

 

Do it in a thread like say, the Gay KISA  and the offending posters will have their posts removed and the thread will go on. There needs to be some consistency. All trolls and abusive posters need to be reprimanded, not just the ones seen as having conservative views.

 

I don't see the inconsistency. Knight in Shining Armour isn't a troll thread, and there is nothing hostile or demeaning to others in the premise of the OP. Even if the author of Females Everywhere wasn't a troll, his premise was that women shouldn't be in positions of power, and that having two women in a scene at the same time without a male character was overwhelming. That's not a conservative position, that's just an absurd position. There was no hope of a productive discussion from that. Frankly, I think the derailment was pretty close to a best-case scenario.

 

And for the record, I didn't really post in either thread (once in KISA, I think, and maybe three times in Females Everywhere.) I lurked Females Everywhere because it was funny, occasionally. In neither case do I feel I have any particular dog in the fight, and I don't see them as comparable. One was either going to be locked or abandoned from the start. People posting gifs or recipes wasn't going to harm anyone. Those things aren't offensive, and they aren't "bashing" anyone.



#650
Paul E Dangerously

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To be fair, anyone using "we" or "us" is likely doing so specifically to try to make their point seem more powerful.  And, if I disagree with that person who is attempting to speak for me, I don't see a problem saying so.  If someone were to claim to speak for you but were saying something you disagree with, wouldn't you point that out? 

 

If I pointed out any time I disagreed with someone who didn't clearly indicate they were only speaking for themselves, I'd never get anything done. Again, self-restraint.