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[Linkenski]

Synthesis is just what the reapers are, true, but the difference is that the Reapers killed organics in the process because they didn't grasp the concept of human/organic emotion, but synthesis doesn't kill organics and it doesn't seemingly change them in a negative way. It just, on top of what already makes them organic, opens them up to understand synthetics. It's lame because the way its presented is terrible pseudo-science that doesn't have the detail most other fictional science has in MEU. Other than that I think the concept is at least interesting, but I wish the execution hadn't been so poor.

[Valmar]

Maybe. I still struggle with the idea that the intelligence is capable of devising a method to truly 'preserve' organic life, because they don't understand organics in the first place.

To an AI, 'life' just requires some programs, algorithms, data, and a platform in which to process them. Millions of geth can live in a single server. EDI lives in a blue box on the Normandy, but can also use a mobile platform as an interface. So they harvest organics, make some goo, upload it to a server with an operating system and some processing algorithms, and voila! You have preserved organic life!

These billion organic 'minds' would not have the priorities, values, needs, desires, concerns of organics. They would operate per whatever operating software exists in that server. That you used some organic goo in the process does not mean it resembles organic life. I know EDI makes some comments about the human reaper being created on the collector base, but consider the source. EDI doesn't understand organics, either.

To a synthetic, the mind is the only thing worth preserving. Organics might see other things - like heart, soul, courage, desire, will - as being more descriptive of their true nature and essence. Saren comments about organics being driven by emotion instead of logic during the encounter on Virmire.
 

 

That is definitely a valid interpenetration. Infact I'd even argue it is more likely than not how it actually "went down". Still, the process of the reapers is left vague and shrouded with enough mystery that it leaves it open. I admit my bias here but I've always liked the idea that those individual minds do retain their "identity" similar to how the geth programs do but ultimately become something more. Reapers are just a glorified organic version of the geth consensus. The reason the cycle continues is because no civilization, after giving this gift, has failed to realize to the necessity of it.

 

Leviathan DLC was originally going to be about a "rogue reaper" so that could had easily played into it and revealed that not ALL reapers necessarily had the same conclusion. That isn't what happened obviously, and with what we have in the lore now what you bring up makes the most sense. Still, my bias keeps me clinging onto it as a "this would had been cool" idea. lol.

 

 

Memories, knowledge, experience - to a synthetic, it's all just data. That data might combine to give each reaper a unique personality. I think the reapers we encountered had different personalities.

You make some interesting points, though. If the leviathan saw other organic species as tools, that disrespect would probably be reflected in the instructions given to the intelligence, and it makes sense in light of Saren's indoctrination. Saren felt that he could avoid complete indoctrination, because he would no longer be useful. Perhaps the leviathan limited their enthrallment in similar fashion. And perhaps the intelligence was designed to shackle the organics it preserved in the same fashion.

 

Possible. It fits in with what we have. Though I still think the issue comes from how vaguely they instructed it. They just told it to preserve life. The Intelligence then went to turn that into meaning it needs to bring peace between organics and synthetics and find a way to preserve both of them. Where as the Leviathans, I doubt, really cared if the machines were saved and just wanted to keep their thralls healthy and working. Since they were vague and only said "preserve life" and didn't give specifics, the Intelligence had a different interpretation of what they wanted, fueled by the fact it isn't organic itself yet obviously considers itself to be a form of life.
 

 

Synthesis is just what the reapers are, true, but the difference is that the Reapers killed organics in the process because they didn't grasp the concept of human/organic emotion, but synthesis doesn't kill organics and it doesn't seemingly change them in a negative way.

 

Does it? Or does it just make them ascend into a new forum of life that is beyond our current understanding? Speculation abounds.

 

 

[Linkenski]

I think it transcends them to a new form of life that is beyond our comprehension, so what I meant was, I think they are everything organics were, but more, and if an organic stood before a synthesized organic they would not have the same level of empathy.

But again, that's where synthesis fails to me, because if it really is an evolution that should be beyond our wildest imaginations, then showing it and writing it with face-value visuals and words makes it extremely unbelievable.

[Valmar]

I think it transcends them to a new form of life that is beyond our comprehension, so what I meant was, I think they are everything organics were, but more, and if an organic stood before a synthesized organic they would not have the same level of empathy.

But again, that's where synthesis fails to me, because if it really is an evolution that should be beyond our wildest imaginations, then showing it and writing it with face-value visuals and words makes it extremely unbelievable.

 

Synthesis touches on it though. Look at the peace and understanding that comes in synthesis. Even the violent, savage krogan seem to be getting along just fine with their new understanding of the world. What's to say the same doesn't happen with the billion reaper minds. They have new understanding and ascended to a new plain of existence, able to embrace perspectives that are far beyond the limits of our limited mortal minds.

 

For me synthesis fails because throwing Shepard into a beam of light somehow changes all the DNA in the galaxy to be the same, right down to the trees and clothes. The general concept behind it isn't bad though, imo. Dues Ex Human Revolution had a similar ending in concept and that worked pretty well, imo.

[Linkenski]

I think there's a problem with the fact that Synthesis in its epilogue makes everything sound like it's perfect and you mention the krogan getting along fine too, when really Synthesis was supposed to only affect the understanding between organic and synthetic.

 

And again it raises the question: "why is "synthetics vs organics" the biggest conflict?" because in theory (and let's be honest that's all we have for synthesis) it should only affect organics relationship towards synthetics but not organics vs organics conflicts, so that's still on the plate and those are bound to go bad just as much as synthetics (especially if you cured the Genophage with Wreav)