56 ответов в этой теме

[kristopherah]

Everything thing here is speculation but I believe a good way for bioware to avoid canonizing one of the ending for the New mass effect is to place the setting in a new galaxy such as possibly the andromeda. It could be explained by the reapers developing relays between galaxies to scout out the entire universe. Maybe a joint species crew is sent out by the council (anytime between ME1 and 3) to investigate a new relay. It could echo the first game as a Shepard and co were sent to investigate Eden prime a new crew is sent to investigate this strange relay. As the new crew tampers with the relay they could accidentily acces it and be transported to a new galaxy with New planets species etc. .This theory is very ambitious as it requires bio. to create a whole new lore and mythos for a new galaxy which would be a pain but would certainly breathe a breath of fresh air to the series.

[Ithurael]

Would be cool. I always love new things.

 

Personally my money is still on an AU. Just a totally different story in the same galaxy with no shepard, no crew, same species, and no reapers.

 

I really do not hope we get a midquel.

[Ithurael]

Or maybe...maybe they will do a simultaneous AU with the Prime Universe...

 

Maybe the next threat will be some kind of multiverse enemy or even an entire dimension. I would LOVE to see how bioware handles black holes or wormholes.

 

I won't lie...I just watched Interstallar...cried a lot, feel great,  now I want to go through a wormhole.

[kristopherah]

I personally doubt they would do it but a mass effect multiverse would be amazing. Its hard to imagine an enemy that could top the reapers in scale and technogical advancement tho but a species or sentient being that could manipulate the fabric of time and space would certainly give them a run for there money.

[Ithurael]

Yog-Sothoth could do it...

[kristopherah]

Lol Mass Effect X Cthulu I would buy that for a dollar.

[themikefest]

I like to stay in the Milky Way since a very small portion has been explored

[kristopherah]

I like to stay in the Milky Way since a very small portion has been explored

An unexplored portion of our milky way would be a great setting also either in a new galaxy or an unexplored portion of our own it gave us the chance to explore new world's and species. The new crew could be involved with conflicts between new species and even make contact with non space faring species. I'd love the new game to have a more star trek vibe.

[KaeserZen]

Would be cool. I always love new things.

 

Personally my money is still on an AU. Just a totally different story in the same galaxy with no shepard, no crew, same species, and no reapers.

 

I really do not hope we get a midquel.

 

I am personally leaning towards that appraoch as well. A prequel or midquel wouldn't sell as well as it could because of many people still not liking the endings to ME3. A sequel would be a headache to put in place because it would either mean :

1) Choose a cannon ending and cannon shep, alienating many fans

2) Make everything that happened in ME1-3 irrelevant no matter what you chose

 

Alternate Universe/Reboot would be an elegant way out of this mess to be honest and I think I'd actually enjoy playing that. Take the same universe, a new cast and roll again.

They would have to go away with Reaper tech being the way to move around the galaxy, hence perhaps the new races leak with the "guardian" race acting as a "reverse" Reaper. Would make it an interesting dynamic.

 

This thread (http://forum.bioware...ges-me3s-canon/) suggested a "what if" with a midquel actuall altering the events of ME3. I doubt how it would be feasible but I think it woud really be awesome for a midquel (much better than some random dude doing some random stuff imho).

But lorewise and how it would actually affect the events of ME3 would be problematic to tie in so I unfortunately don't see that happening...

[Valmar]

I'm going with AU. All kinds of mediums already take this approach and its been proven successful. Don't see why MEU can't do the same.

 

That being said I don't think a new galaxy is necessary. A lot of our galaxy is not explored. Think of all the relays the council never activated. What we view as the galaxy map may be a very small little fraction of the entire network. Hell, the reapers themselves might still be out there. The crucible used the relay's to spread its blast. What about all the systems where the relays are dormant? Maybe some were still in dark space. Maybe  the next game has us activating the relays to spread the crucible signal and hunt down remaining reapers.

[Laughing_Man]

Not AU. Just no. This is not comics, Mortal Kombat, or a bad anime fanfiction.

[KaeserZen]

Not AU. Just no. This is not comics, Mortal Kombat, or a bad anime fanfiction.

 

How would you go about solving the continuity if that was a sequel, especially with the vastly different scenarios just based on the 3 endings ?

Would you impose a canon ? How would you feel if that canon was completely different and contradictory to your playthrough ?

If they made a sequel where ultimately the choices didn't matter (Reapers eventually die, the synthesis doesn't work for long, etc), don't you feel that would invalidate all the impact your choices have, if all possible outcomes are merged in a bland soup ?

 

If they made a prequel, do you think that all of the players who absolutely disliked the endings (I'm unsure about the exact statistics, but I'm willing to bet it's between 25 and 50%) would buy the game knowing how the story pans out ?

[Valmar]

Not AU. Just no. This is not comics, Mortal Kombat, or a bad anime fanfiction.

 

Comics, anime, games have all done it before and it works. Look at all the different cartoons made for Batman. Yet they all still feel like Batman. Hellsing and Hellsing Ultimate. I could go on and on. The formula can work. I don't see any reason why Mass Effect couldn't pull it off. Personally I love ME more for its universe than the story. I wouldn't mind playing another story in that universe even if it is AU. Long as we get all the cool aliens and space exploration and technology.

[Laughing_Man]

How would you go about solving the continuity if that was a sequel, especially with the vastly different scenarios just based on the 3 endings ?

Would you impose a canon ? How would you feel if that canon was completely different and contradictory to your playthrough ?

If they made a sequel where ultimately the choices didn't matter (Reapers eventually die, the synthesis doesn't work for long, etc), don't you feel that would invalidate all the impact your choices have, if all possible outcomes are merged in a bland soup ?

 

If they made a prequel, do you think that all of the players who absolutely disliked the endings (I'm unsure about the exact statistics, but I'm willing to bet it's between 25 and 50%) would buy the game knowing how the story pans out ?

 

Comics, anime, games have all done it before and it works. Look at all the different cartoons made for Batman. Yet they all still feel like Batman. Hellsing and Hellsing Ultimate. I could go on and on. The formula can work. I don't see any reason why Mass Effect couldn't pull it off. Personally I love ME more for its universe than the story. I wouldn't mind playing another story in that universe even if it is AU. Long as we get all the cool aliens and space exploration and technology.

 

I disliked the ending on many levels. But despite the fact that I saw synthesis as a somewhat preferred option, due to it advancing the galaxy at large to the next stage in evolution if you will, I'm not invested enough in the ending in it's entirety to really care.

 

Destroy is "okay" as well, and is probably the likeliest choice for a military!Shepard, while control is somewhat iffy for a couple of reasons.

 

The thing is, no matter what choice they make canon, it won't make me like the ending.

 

That said, I like the ME universe, cool aliens and all. Therefore, I just want to see them solving this somehow, either by letting the player choose what solution was used, or by making one solution (I would guess destroy) canon, and moving on to tell a new - hopefully better - story, somewhere down the timeline.

 

I don't want to see something from before ME trilogy because well: Humans can't be biotics yet, technology is still crappy, and we know most of what occurred so it most likely going to involve some heavy handed retconing.

 

As for a story occurring inside the ME trilogy time-frame - that would mean that we are still inside the known conflict that we all know was solved in an extremely unsatisfying manner (for most), and whatever we do it won't really change the outcome.

 

And lastly AU, well, to me it feels just cheap. As I said, this plot device is often used in bad fanfiction stories or in anime (which is a lot of the time worse than fan fiction...), so just no, I don't want to see it. Not to mention the fact that starting to make distinctions between timelines etc. and what is considered canon is no less annoying than simply making a certain choice canon.

[KaeserZen]

You definitely make a strong case, I wanted to point out the main challenges that the writing team would be facing

 

I don't think the Alternate Universe (as in Earth #3421 like in comic books) is either elegant nor preferred and thanks for pointing out the comparison that people will make ! I'll now refer to this as a Reboot rather than AU hehe. As in : same setting as when you started ME1 (albeit with a very different protagonist and context), without the Reapers ever existing.

It might seem as a cop out but it would maintain the status quo between the different playthroughs !

 

You definitey nailed the problems with prequels, I really don't see Next ME being one (especially because of the more elaborate look the technology seems futuristic compared to ME3).

 

The most likely scenario like you said though is that it's going to be a sequel.

 

Spoiler

When you look at the stargazer post credit scene, it shares many similarities between with what we currently know about ME4 ! It's like the first teaser we could have.

 

 

If ME4 is a sequel, here are my personal predictions for the canon and the context :

 

Spoiler

1) It will be set at least 150 years after ME3 in the Milky Way

2) The protagonist will be the little kid Buzz Aldrin talks to

3) The story will revolve around a lambda explorer that gets caught into something bigger than him (refering to the interview of the new lead writer on the BW blog)

4) High Ems Destroy will be the canon ending. Destroy is the only option available for lower ems playthroughs and high ems gives the shepard lives ending. Having Reapers around makes it also very hard for proper conflict to arise

5) Krogans will not have been extinguished, whether shep cured them or another cure was found after the sabotaged doesn't really matter.

6) Quarians and Geth will be both wiped out during that timeframe. (Geth because of destroyed or lack of peace, Quarians either because peace couldn't be brokered or slowly died out after coming back to Rannoch)

 

I could be totally wrong about that, but I really feel that's the most sensible way it could go. I definitely would feel bad for those who didn't pick the canon ending and were really into their choice.

[Valmar]

And lastly AU, well, to me it feels just cheap. As I said, this plot device is often used in bad fanfiction stories or in anime (which is a lot of the time worse than fan fiction...), so just no, I don't want to see it. Not to mention the fact that starting to make distinctions between timelines etc. and what is considered canon is no less annoying than simply making a certain choice canon.

 

This is heavily subjective. Just because you don't like AU and find it cheap doesn't mean it doesn't work. It just means it isn't for you. From a broader spectrum it works, as proved by the popularity of comics, anime and video games that do it.

[Laughing_Man]

This is heavily subjective. Just because you don't like AU and find it cheap doesn't mean it doesn't work. It just means it isn't for you. From a broader spectrum it works, as proved by the popularity of comics, anime and video games that do it.

 

You are correct of course. But I still don't see a compelling reason for inventing a new AU, I just don't see the point.

 

I think Destroy being made canon is much more likely and simple.

I mean, Shepard's a soldier at the end of the day, and Destroy is most likely to have been Anderson's and admiral Scar Face' choice as well as you can understand from conversations with them.

 

Edit: I think that the popularity of the media types you mentioned is not because the AU mess they made all over the place, but rather despite that fact. This is not a selling point.

 

I mean, does this sound convincing to you?

 

"Come read our comic books! We have 432523 timelines so far and counting! No need to worry about immersion, in-story-logic, or holes in the plot - because we just start a new one every time! Isn't it grand?"

[Undead Han]

My preference would be for a direct sequel set in the Milky Way. Only 1% of the galaxy was explored at the end of ME3, so there is plenty of room for more stories to be set there.

 

Having said that...I'd bet on the next game being set in Andromeda or at some other point outside the Milky Way. It avoids having to address the effects of ME3's endings since it would be set entirely outside the active relay network. Also statements from Bioware seem to hint that the next game is not a direct sequel. Besides not referring to the next game as ME4, they even went so far as to caution us against using it. 

 

I think the Ark theory speculation might be on to something.

[Reorte]

From a realistic point of view a new galaxy is completely unnecessary. The known systems in ME, even allowing for large numbers that we've never seen or even heard of, is a tiny, tiny proportion of it. Asking for a new galaxy is failing to grasp the size of this one. It would also mean having to throw away a large amount of the setting, and that's a good chunk of the appeal of Mass Effect. May as well just create a new universe from scratch if you're going to do that.

I take the "it's not ME4" line as merely saying that it's a completely new story, i.e. nothing whatsoever to do with Shepard and crew, and don't read in any more to it than that.

[Vazgen]

Looking at the conceptual prototype. Doesn't look like Milky Way to me.

Spoiler

Spoiler

[Valmar]

You are correct of course. But I still don't see a compelling reason for inventing a new AU, I just don't see the point.

 

I think Destroy being made canon is much more likely and simple.

I mean, Shepard's a soldier at the end of the day, and Destroy is most likely to have been Anderson's and admiral Scar Face' choice as well as you can understand from conversations with them.

 

Edit: I think that the popularity of the media types you mentioned is not because the AU mess they made all over the place, but rather despite that fact. This is not a selling point.

 

I mean, does this sound convincing to you?

 

"Come read our comic books! We have 432523 timelines so far and counting! No need to worry about immersion, in-story-logic, or holes in the plot - because we just start a new one every time! Isn't it grand?"

 

Personally I go with Destroy so I wouldn't be bothered, personally, if they made it canon. Just think about all the fans that prefer control and synthesis, though? It would really suck for them if MENext came out and just flushed their choice down the drain and said "nope, this was the real official ending". I don't think they should canonize any ending. If they did all they'd do is get people shouting again. I bet a lot of people who right now are for canon-destroy would use the opputunity to insult the ending anymore by saying "your choices didn't even matter in the next game because X was made canon anyway. Artistic Integrity!"

 

Imagine if you picked up ME3 and found out that you had to play as default Commander Shepard. No choice of class or appearance. Also, regardless of who you saved in ME1, Ashley is the survive and Kaidan died at the bomb site. Wouldn't you be upset? I mean, this isn't YOUR Shepard. This isn't the choices YOU made. Its one thing to railroad the player and give them no choice (working with Cerberus for example), its an entirely other thing to come out and say your last choices don't matter at all.

 

Even with the rachni, which is one of the most disappointing parts of the game imo, they didn't make "saved queen" as the default and only choice. They just worked around it by tossing in a BS clone.

 

As for AU in comics, well, I don't really think people really care about a consistent singular story. They love the characters and the universe they're set in. They just want more of them. It can seem confusing for outsiders, no doubt, but I'm sure the fans who love those characters enjoy reading more about them.

 

I mean, think about it, if they stuck in the same exact universe indefinitely how would they go anywhere? To even get into the story you'd have to roll back the clock a few decades and start from issue one.

 

Take Batman for example. Lots of fans of Batman. He has tons of takes and versions. Yet they all "feel" like Batman. You may have preferences (Batman TAS is mine) but they're all Batman. It isn't a central story that keeps people attached, its the universe and characters. How many different AU stories the series has shouldn't really matter. Since they're AU, you're not required to know anything about them to enjoy the one you're about to read. I don't need to know anything about AU 1-300 to be able to get into AU 301. They're self-contained arcs. Or so I'm assuming - I don't actually read comics. I could be wrong.

 

Bioware mentioned they wanted a fresh start with MENext but still wanted it to feel like a Mass Effect game. I believe this is achievable with AU. That doesn't mean I think they'd HAVE to go with AU to get it to work. Only that I think AU is a viable option to achieve the goal.

 

[Laughing_Man]

Looking at the conceptual prototype. Doesn't look like Milky Way to me.

*snip*

 

After comparing these pictures for about half a minute, I think that the difference is mainly in the colors and perhaps point of view, not in the shape of the galaxy. I think that both pictures show the same star map more or less.

 

Personally I go with Destroy so I wouldn't be bothered, personally, if they made it canon. Just think about all the fans that prefer control and synthesis, though? It would really suck for them if MENext came out and just flushed their choice down the drain and said "nope, this was the real official ending". I don't think they should canonize any ending. If they did all they'd do is get people shouting again. I bet a lot of people who right now are for canon-destroy would use the opputunity to insult the ending anymore by saying "your choices didn't even matter in the next game because X was made canon anyway. Artistic Integrity!"

 

Imagine if you picked up ME3 and found out that you had to play as default Commander Shepard. No choice of class or appearance. Also, regardless of who you saved in ME1, Ashley is the survive and Kaidan died at the bomb site. Wouldn't you be upset? I mean, this isn't YOUR Shepard. This isn't the choices YOU made. Its one thing to railroad the player and give them no choice (working with Cerberus for example), its an entirely other thing to come out and say your last choices don't matter at all.

 

Even with the rachni, which is one of the most disappointing parts of the game imo, they didn't make "saved queen" as the default and only choice. They just worked around it by tossing in a BS clone.

 

As for AU in comics, well, I don't really think people really care about a consistent singular story. They love the characters and the universe they're set in. They just want more of them. It can seem confusing for outsiders, no doubt, but I'm sure the fans who love those characters enjoy reading more about them.

 

I mean, think about it, if they stuck in the same exact universe indefinitely how would they go anywhere? To even get into the story you'd have to roll back the clock a few decades and start from issue one.

 

Take Batman for example. Lots of fans of Batman. He has tons of takes and versions. Yet they all "feel" like Batman. You may have preferences (Batman TAS is mine) but they're all Batman. It isn't a central story that keeps people attached, its the universe and characters. How many different AU stories the series has shouldn't really matter. Since they're AU, you're not required to know anything about them to enjoy the one you're about to read. I don't need to know anything about AU 1-300 to be able to get into AU 301. They're self-contained arcs. Or so I'm assuming - I don't actually read comics. I could be wrong.

 

Bioware mentioned they wanted a fresh start with MENext but still wanted it to feel like a Mass Effect game. I believe this is achievable with AU. That doesn't mean I think they'd HAVE to go with AU to get it to work. Only that I think AU is a viable option to achieve the goal.

 

Relatively very few people are going to sing praises for ME3's ending, no matter what choice BW makes with the next game.

 

I like my choices acknowledged as much as anyone, but I came to realize the limitations of this approach. There comes a point where you need to choose between making your game a jack-of-all-choices that bends backwards with laughable solutions like Rachni-queen-clone that frankly emptied your choice from any meaning anyway, or you simply narrow the scope of your game's flexibility when it comes to these choices.

 

I mean, instead of trying to account for everything, and insult the player's intelligence with a ridiculous work-around that makes choices meaningless anyway, account only for a very few important choices, perhaps even one choice only, and give this choice a resounding impact on the game.

 

As for the rest? Just make the game a few hundred years down the time line - thereby making some choices irrelevant and leaving enough time for believable change when it comes for the rest of the choices.

 

Trying to appease everyone is a folly, ad DA:I somewhat proved. I want BW to make the best game they can without their hands being tied by anything.

 

As for comic books:

 

No one has to apologize for their taste in entertainment.

 

But that said, most comic books tend to be rather... flimsy when it comes to things like a coherent and engaging plot, real suspense etc. Much like anime it's very much about the over use of the rule-of-cool, an abundance of exclamation marks, and cheesy shameless and overused tropes.

 

That of course does not mean that they are bad, just childish in style. The AU thing is a part of that, and as you said yourself - a cheap way to please fans. (because why bother with originality?)

[Valmar]

Focusing on fewer choices that have bigger consequences (quality over quantity, basically) is fine but that doesn't mean it should be encoruaged that they completely retcon your choice. Instead of having the queen clone they should have just scrapped the rachni from the game completely. It isn't like they're integral to the plot. What they SHOULDN'T have done, however, is act like Shepard chose to spare the queen no matter what. Making a clone may cheapen the experience but it doesn't change your original decision.

 

Personally I don't really see why setting the game years in the future will bypass the problem they have left themselves with. As much as people complained at the all the endings were the same, they're all very different. one changes ALL life in the galaxy, right down to the plants and clothes. The other makes Shepard the Reaper God. Why would an immortal reaper god leave with his armada of sentient spaceships just because a few hundred or even thousands years have passed? That may seem like a lot of time to us mortals but Shepard would be immortal, time is just an illusion.

 

 

Trying to appease everyone is a folly, ad DA:I somewhat proved. I want BW to make the best game they can without their hands being tied by anything.
 

 

Isn't that precisely what AU would allow? Freedom to just focus on a new story they want to tell without being tied to accounting for anything having to do with the trilogy? They've made it clear the trilogy is over, Shepard's story is over, they want to move on. MENext will be its own thing. AU would provide the escape they need to stay within the general universe of Mass Effect with its aliens and technology but not be hindered by the original trilogy.

 

 

That of course does not mean that they are bad, just childish in style. The AU thing is a part of that, and as you said yourself - a cheap way to please fans. (because why bother with originality?)

 

Actually, I didn't say it was cheap. Or if I did, I didn't mean to. I said you thought it was cheap. As for claiming AU takes away originality, this I definitely have to disagree with. I've seen many AU that were far more original and unique then their base subject. AU opens up the door for original thinking because it frees the writer from being constricted to any particular set of foundation. The Justice League movie "Flashpoint Paradox", for example, imo, was very original and set in AU. The Injustice video game is AU yet I thought its story was original. I can think of many such examples. Though again, its all subjective since what I think is good is not necessary what others would find good.

 

That being said I still believe AU does provide plenty of leeway for originality and in a lot of cases originality is what sets AU's apart from their original. Compare the Adam West Batman with the darker Batman portrayed in The Animated Series. The two were clearly AU from one another and very different yet can both were enjoyed by a great many people. I don't believe AU hinders originality in anyway, I believe it encourages it. The writer should want their take on the subject to stand out from the original and that isn't something easily done without having your own original twist on the story.

[Treacherous J Slither]

If I was BW id just come up with a sensible ending and release it as free dlc. Retconning the terrible one we have now.

OR

AU in which the asari take their rightful place as rulers of the galaxy and guide us in a mother knows best manner as opposed to the prothean way of being so mean and everything. Just about everything else is the same. Except no reapers. And the geth never leave geth space. And the salarians developed and deployed the genophage all on their own and as a result have scared the crap out of the other races because of their brilliant ruthlessness. And there are far more than 3 mercenary bands ffs.

Boom.

[Laughing_Man]

Personally I don't really see why setting the game years in the future will bypass the problem they have left themselves with. As much as people complained at the all the endings were the same, they're all very different. one changes ALL life in the galaxy, right down to the plants and clothes. The other makes Shepard the Reaper God. Why would an immortal reaper god leave with his armada of sentient spaceships just because a few hundred or even thousands years have passed? That may seem like a lot of time to us mortals but Shepard would be immortal, time is just an illusion.

 

Essentially, I agree that at this point the choice BW facing is:

 

1. Emptying the ending choices from any real meaning: aka the Rachni clone. (God!Shep takes the Reapers to dark space to protect the galaxy from the Necromorphs, and Synthesis being reduced to a mere curiosity that is sometimes used to explain new advances in technology)

 

2. AU / prequel.

 

3. Canonizing one ending.

 

Now, I think that the ending makes no sense on many levels, but I won't go into it right now.

 

That said, I believe that Shepard is first and foremost an alliance soldier, and Destroy was presented as the "Soldier's Choice".

It also eliminates the problems of writing a post-singularity story, and the lack of real threat when God!Shep is controlling the Reapers.

This choice feels to me like the canon choice even as it is, and I say this despite usually going with Synthesis.

 

This is why I think that BW is going to go with option 3 and canonize Destroy - it's simple, elegant, and logical.

 

Comics, AU, and Originality:

 

I get what you're saying, and maybe it works for comics, but I wouldn't be really interested in a new "Mass Effect: AU".

I want to see technology developing, races maturing, old conflicts being resolved or reignited, not just a new take on the story, I can read fanfiction for this. A new franchise would be preferable in this case.

 

I think that as long as the lore is manageable, and not a huge mess like in some comics, the writer should own and respect what was written before. Otherwise everything becomes incredibly chaotic and to me - unappealing.