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[Build Guide] Legionnaire Defender


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#1
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Korbin would like all the ladies to know that he will be in Orzammar this week if you'd like the have a drink with him. B)



Synopsis:

So let's talk about the Legionnaire. This lovable dwarf is likely one of your first classes played in multiplayer. Even when you are not playing, he keeps busy in the Deep Roads holding off Darkspawn two days at a time!

Now, this build will be set up to build the Legionnaire as a pure Defender. A Defender is a class that directs damage away from ones allies. This is more recently become known as a tank.

A Defender can function in multiple ways. In this case, however, the build utilizes drawing enemy attention (or aggro) by taunting as the means by which to accomplish this role. This is also known as an aggro-tank.

This build actually has six usable abilities as a side effect of building the skill tree for maximal effect. This also allows you to tailor this build a bit from one match to the next, and also have viable options even when in the process of leveling.

Enjoy!
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#2
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Sorry for the mix up. Video is now up. Enjoy!

#3
Altruismo

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Cool.

I can confirm that I've also seen Counterstrike hit archers many, many times in the past.

I haven't used it in a Lego build for quite a while now though, and didn't see it happen in your video at all - perhaps it got stealth-patched?

 

I'm running WF, WC, Payback and Lunge and Slash at the moment, a build which originally started off as kind of a lark, but has morphed into something incredibly fun and effective. The cooldown reduction from WF makes the damage output much higher than I expected, I try to coast between 40% and 80% health for Blood Frenzy damage+, and when I get pushed onto Unyielding the damage is quite remarkable.

I really want a Payback Strike ring.



#4
Zorinho20_CRO

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I approve this build.

 

Also interesting accent,I enjoy listening while working.



#5
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Cool.
I can confirm that I've also seen Counterstrike hit archers many, many times in the past.
I haven't used it in a Lego build for quite a while now though, and didn't see it happen in your video at all - perhaps it got stealth-patched?
 
I'm running WF, WC, Payback and Lunge and Slash at the moment, a build which originally started off as kind of a lark, but has morphed into something incredibly fun and effective. The cooldown reduction from WF makes the damage output much higher than I expected, I try to coast between 40% and 80% health for Blood Frenzy damage+, and when I get pushed onto Unyielding the damage is quite remarkable.
I really want a Payback Strike ring.

 

When I mentioned it, I showed me countering a despair demon. I think it's more about range the enemy is from you than the type of attack. Just my thought.

Aside, you have an awesome idea for a damager Lego in using the CD reduction from WF to increase DPS. I like that.

I approve this build.
 
Also interesting accent,I enjoy listening while working.


My bastardized amalgam accent? Yeah I imagine it's entertaining. I take sarcastic pride that neither people from my home country or current home (or anyone else) can figure it out. A certain British person I play with thought I was Australian (for which I apologize to any Aussies here).

#6
Zorinho20_CRO

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When I mentioned it, I showed me countering a despair demon. I think it's more about range the enemy is from you than the type of attack. Just my thought.

Aside, you have an awesome idea for a damager Lego in using the CD reduction from WF to increase DPS. I like that.


My bastardized amalgam accent? Yeah I imagine it's entertaining. I take sarcastic pride that neither people from my home country or current home (or anyone else) can figure it out. A certain British person I play with thought I was Australian (for which I apologize to any Aussies here).

Hmm,I am not expert for English,but I thought you are American.Not that I spoke with many Aussies,though.



#7
Sidney

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Thanks for the guide. I was down the same road, I thought, but the theory of the build is right but the execution must be horribly flawed as my Legionarre dies at a ferocious pace. Damage received just seems > guard generated.

The difference is that I have war cry, walking fortress, payback strike and Unbowed. It sounds like War Cry is a reasonable skill for the mix based on the commentary. I both like what Unbowed claims to bring (it doesn't quite seem to do what it claims) plus access to the Untouchable Defense passive which I am hoping stacks with Bulwark.

#8
Altruismo

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Aside, you have an awesome idea for a damager Lego in using the CD reduction from WF to increase DPS. I like that.

 

Caliban, a bunch of mobs, decent +damage% stacking ability, and Payback Strike dropping towards a 2 second cooldown, the damage is pretty nice. Built to kill, a Lego is really good at it. I dropped Counterstrike specifically because the build hinges on getting into the thick of it ASAP and getting hit as much as possible, and with Counterstrike's knockdown I basically got hit once by each mob before the taunt wore off.

I'm finally glad that Payback stun and knockdown are really unreliable.

People don't realise that a Caliban Payback Strike with the full bonuses does nearly twice as much "base" damage as Fade Cloak, and a Lego can self buff that around 40-60% fairly easily if there are a lot of targets on him.

Yeah, 600% of 225 damage is better than 1000% of 75.

 

Needless to say I just don't pick Lego with an Ele in the lobby.



#9
Dieb

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Nice!

 

Non-straightup-damage builds are way too underepresented, anyways. I feel the most comfortable with supporting roles, but I found that in PuGs, people mostly just don't care about your attempts to give things some structure. They will come crawling back as soon as you crank it up to Perilous though.



#10
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Hmm, I am not expert for English, but I thought you are American.

 

That is correct.
 

Thanks for the guide. I was down the same road, I thought, but the theory of the build is right but the execution must be horribly flawed as my Legionarre dies at a ferocious pace. Damage received just seems > guard generated.

The difference is that I have war cry, walking fortress, payback strike and Unbowed. It sounds like War Cry is a reasonable skill for the mix based on the commentary. I both like what Unbowed claims to bring (it doesn't quite seem to do what it claims) plus access to the Untouchable Defense passive which I am hoping stacks with Bulwark.

 

The key is to not rely on Guard too much in it's current state because it is not very functional. Walking Fortress and Counterstrike are your main means of damage mitigation, with the emphasis on the former. Using the cool down reduction from Walking Fortress and from Flow of Battle are the keys to keeping your cool downs minimized, so you want to put whatever you can on him to increase Cunning/Critical Chance and also promote Rogue classes to maximize Flow of Battle.

 

Untouchable Defense, last I heard, does not work.

 

Unbowed is essentially just like War Cry, except that War Cry has an AoE taunt and Unbowed has an AoE stagger. War Cry is more for aggro-tanking whereas Unbowed is more for non-tank builds. Counterstrike is essentially War Cry on steroids, and has a much longer cool down to compensate. Having both War Cry and Counterstrike on a build makes threat generation insane.

 

Caliban, a bunch of mobs, decent +damage% stacking ability, and Payback Strike dropping towards a 2 second cooldown, the damage is pretty nice. Built to kill, a Lego is really good at it. I dropped Counterstrike specifically because the build hinges on getting into the thick of it ASAP and getting hit as much as possible, and with Counterstrike's knockdown I basically got hit once by each mob before the taunt wore off.

I'm finally glad that Payback stun and knockdown are really unreliable.

People don't realise that a Caliban Payback Strike with the full bonuses does nearly twice as much "base" damage as Fade Cloak, and a Lego can self buff that around 40-60% fairly easily if there are a lot of targets on him.

Yeah, 600% of 225 damage is better than 1000% of 75.

 

Needless to say I just don't pick Lego with an Ele in the lobby.

 

With a damage build I would outright ignore Counterstrike and War Cry, honestly. If you want Guard generation, I'd honestly go with Unbowed. That's a better choice for a damager build, as you are not tanking. Just my thoughts.

 

Although, in doing that you do lose the stun to taunted enemies with Payback Strike, but that's not a big loss honestly.

 

Like I said, it's a very interesting idea, and I may "steal" it for a build video later (credit given), although hopefully by then I'll have Caliban. Currently Firm Tourney Axe is my best, which worked out well as the Critical Chance played well with Flow of Battle.

 

Nice!

 

Non-straightup-damage builds are way too underepresented, anyways. I feel the most comfortable with supporting roles, but I found that in PuGs, people mostly just don't care about your attempts to give things some structure. They will come crawling back as soon as you crank it up to Perilous though.

 

I play Perilous the vast majority of the time. Fortunately, this build could honestly care less what the PuGs do. Bring your Arcane Warrior, Elementalist, Archer... whatever. I can still out-generate threat and hold aggro over any PuG with which I've played. The best part is when they comment on how easy the match was, but can't figure out why (hint: The enemies were focused on me the whole time).

 

While the power of a good Assassin or Archer is definitely fun (Archer is the next build up on the list I think), the real fun I have found is with taking the non-damager roles, like the Templar Leader, Arcane Warrior Controller, or this build. Eventually, enough people will get bored of playing the same tired old Archer and Arcane Warrior builds, and I'll have been there the whole time...  ;)



#11
Sidney

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That is correct.
 

 
The key is to not rely on Guard too much in it's current state because it is not very functional. Walking Fortress and Counterstrike are your main means of damage mitigation, with the emphasis on the former. Using the cool down reduction from Walking Fortress and from Flow of Battle are the keys to keeping your cool downs minimized, so you want to put whatever you can on him to increase Cunning/Critical Chance and also promote Rogue classes to maximize Flow of Battle.
 
Untouchable Defense, last I heard, does not work.
 
Unbowed is essentially just like War Cry, except that War Cry has an AoE taunt and Unbowed has an AoE stagger. War Cry is more for aggro-tanking whereas Unbowed is more for non-tank builds. Counterstrike is essentially War Cry on steroids, and has a much longer cool down to compensate. Having both War Cry and Counterstrike on a build makes threat generation insane
 


Well hearing that about Untouchable is a downer. I'll setup with counter strike assuming I can slog through this build and get him promoted. I've just pulled some equipment that should help Pirate Captain's Cutlass and Estwatch Shield. Had nothing but commons on this cat until this morning.

#12
Altruismo

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With a damage build I would outright ignore Counterstrike and War Cry, honestly. If you want Guard generation, I'd honestly go with Unbowed. That's a better choice for a damager build, as you are not tanking. Just my thoughts.
 

 

I keep War Cry for the AoE taunt (I want to get hit) and for the 4 seconds of Cutting Words (I'm not the only one doing damage). Generally after the first Payback, I'm not losing the agro, but getting it in the first place is important, especially when WF is ready to go. Guard generation is actually not a primary concern, working to milk Blood Frenzy when I've also got decent damage and HoK means I've had to develop a mindset where around 60% health is "full" and everything above that is "guard".



#13
Torkelight

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(y)

Same build I used on my lego, about a month or two ago.



#14
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Well hearing that about Untouchable is a downer. I'll setup with counter strike assuming I can slog through this build and get him promoted. I've just pulled some equipment that should help Pirate Captain's Cutlass and Estwatch Shield. Had nothing but commons on this cat until this morning.

 

Keep in mind that Untouchable Defense may have been fixed by now, or may be fixed in the future. Just like the upgrade to War Cry.
 

I keep War Cry for the AoE taunt (I want to get hit) and for the 4 seconds of Cutting Words (I'm not the only one doing damage). Generally after the first Payback, I'm not losing the agro, but getting it in the first place is important, especially when WF is ready to go. Guard generation is actually not a primary concern, working to milk Blood Frenzy when I've also got decent damage and HoK means I've had to develop a mindset where around 60% health is "full" and everything above that is "guard".

 
*facepalm* Yeah, I didn't think about that... You need aggro to get hit for the upgrade for WF.
 
The mindset you developed with that build is the same mindset I developed with my Reaver. It's a precarious juggling act, but at least the Lego has WF and Unyielding to fall on if things get too hot lol.



#15
Sidney

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So I wheeled out my long abandoned Lego last night after this discussion.

Added Payback Strike into my active skills now understanding the value in clearing effects. War Cry, unbowed and Walking Frotress ( can't and likely won't be able to get counter strike on this build). Level 16 with top tier armor, Estwatch Shield, Pirates Cutless, amulet +10 strength, belt +3% melee defense. 2 promotions on Mages and 1 on rogues - just to be clear what I am playing with. Went into Routine to test what I learned. All went well, soloed all 3 factions (learned to hate chasing Despair Demons as a melee character) really felt like a walking fortress.

Got to threatening as part of a team, met the Templars and they tore me apart. Archers blew through my guard like it was tissue paper. Was trying to rotate guard generating skills as they came online. Held off payback unless I was knocked down or surrounded and I was getting value from the strike. No good. Does counterstrike make that much of a difference in the total package? Is this about not having enough promotions to build up HP or lower cool down?

#16
TheHutz

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So I wheeled out my long abandoned Lego last night after this discussion.

Added Payback Strike into my active skills now understanding the value in clearing effects. War Cry, unbowed and Walking Frotress ( can't and likely won't be able to get counter strike on this build). Level 16 with top tier armor, Estwatch Shield, Pirates Cutless, amulet +10 strength, belt +3% melee defense. 2 promotions on Mages and 1 on rogues - just to be clear what I am playing with. Went into Routine to test what I learned. All went well, soloed all 3 factions (learned to hate chasing Despair Demons as a melee character) really felt like a walking fortress.

Got to threatening as part of a team, met the Templars and they tore me apart. Archers blew through my guard like it was tissue paper. Was trying to rotate guard generating skills as they came online. Held off payback unless I was knocked down or surrounded and I was getting value from the strike. No good. Does counterstrike make that much of a difference in the total package? Is this about not having enough promotions to build up HP or lower cool down?

Did you have turn the bolt?


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#17
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So I wheeled out my long abandoned Lego last night after this discussion.

Added Payback Strike into my active skills now understanding the value in clearing effects. War Cry, unbowed and Walking Frotress ( can't and likely won't be able to get counter strike on this build). Level 16 with top tier armor, Estwatch Shield, Pirates Cutless, amulet +10 strength, belt +3% melee defense. 2 promotions on Mages and 1 on rogues - just to be clear what I am playing with. Went into Routine to test what I learned. All went well, soloed all 3 factions (learned to hate chasing Despair Demons as a melee character) really felt like a walking fortress.

Got to threatening as part of a team, met the Templars and they tore me apart. Archers blew through my guard like it was tissue paper. Was trying to rotate guard generating skills as they came online. Held off payback unless I was knocked down or surrounded and I was getting value from the strike. No good. Does counterstrike make that much of a difference in the total package? Is this about not having enough promotions to build up HP or lower cool down?

 

Just stumble through the build you have now, promote, and try the build and strategy I have in the video. In most cases, you will want Walking Fortress, War Cry, Counterstrike, and Payback Strike. I will only bring To The Death under specific team conditions (namely, if I know the team can kite and kill puny mobs by themselves, so I can keep focus on the big boys). Try this out and you may find yourself quite surprised.

 

Tip: Note that War Cry has a 4 second taunt and Counterstrike has a 6 second taunt. Be careful not to overlap them (its wasteful)..

 

Did you have turn the bolt?

 

Spot on. This is an almost-required passive for every warrior that has it.


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#18
Altruismo

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So I wheeled out my long abandoned Lego last night after this discussion.

Added Payback Strike into my active skills now understanding the value in clearing effects. War Cry, unbowed and Walking Frotress ( can't and likely won't be able to get counter strike on this build). Level 16 with top tier armor, Estwatch Shield, Pirates Cutless, amulet +10 strength, belt +3% melee defense. 2 promotions on Mages and 1 on rogues - just to be clear what I am playing with. Went into Routine to test what I learned. All went well, soloed all 3 factions (learned to hate chasing Despair Demons as a melee character) really felt like a walking fortress.

Got to threatening as part of a team, met the Templars and they tore me apart. Archers blew through my guard like it was tissue paper. Was trying to rotate guard generating skills as they came online. Held off payback unless I was knocked down or surrounded and I was getting value from the strike. No good. Does counterstrike make that much of a difference in the total package? Is this about not having enough promotions to build up HP or lower cool down?

 

You've run into two (of many) reasons why I like Lunge and Slash (Despair Demons and Archers).

As Hutz said, if you don't have Turn the Bolt, archers will hurt.

And yes, for the build and game-play style that Mortiel is demonstrating, Counterstrike makes a lot of difference for a few reasons.

Counterstrike itself always gives 100% guard.

Because the taunt range is line of sight you can step into a room, taunt everyone, then step back out around the corner and they will all follow you - the archers will come into melee range and won't be attacking while they move.

The knockdown from the counterattacks effectively reduces the damage you take, because downed dudes don't hurt anyone.

To get Counterstrike, you have to pick up Unyielding, which is an automatic 5 seconds of "Walking Fortress" that kicks in if you get knocked to 5% health (it then goes on cool-down for a minute).

While Unbowed is alright for an "oh crap" button, it doesn't really compare to Counterstrike IMO; I'm not actually a fan of Unbowed at all.

 

Tip: Note that War Cry has a 4 second taunt and Counterstrike has a 6 second taunt. Be careful not to overlap them (its wasteful)..

 

Indeed, and you want to use Counterstrike before Walking Fortress to maximise the cool-down reduction you'll get on it. If possible wait until Counterstrike has ended so you're not knocking people down while you're invulnerable and getting cool-down reduction every time you get hit.

You might also feel like it's a waste to use War Cry while Walking Fortress is up and you've got full guard, not true! The War Cry will apply Cutting Words and make sure they keep hitting you - if you can get hit 8 times in 4 seconds while Walking Fortress is up, that will mean you have War Cry ready to go again as soon as it wears off.

Edit to clarify: I mean War Cry will be ready again as soon as Walking Fortress wears off (not the taunt).


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#19
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Indeed, and you want to use Counterstrike before Walking Fortress to maximise the cool-down reduction you'll get on it. If possible wait until Counterstrike has ended so you're not knocking people down while you're invulnerable and getting cool-down reduction every time you get hit.

You might also feel like it's a waste to use War Cry while Walking Fortress is up and you've got full guard, not true! The War Cry will apply Cutting Words and make sure they keep hitting you - if you can get hit 8 times in 4 seconds while Walking Fortress is up, that will mean you have War Cry ready to go again as soon as it wears off.

Edit to clarify: I mean War Cry will be ready again as soon as Walking Fortress wears off (not the taunt).

 

You are completely correct. I was just cautioning against overlapping taunts, but this is a lot better detail. Kudos!



#20
Beerfish

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I get serious hand/finger fatigue with the Lego and miss Templar britches when I take them to perilous.  I can survive not too bad but it takes forever to kill even the mooks.  (I also spam shiled bash a bit too much with the right bumper.)



#21
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I get serious hand/finger fatigue with the Lego and miss Templar britches when I take them to perilous.  I can survive not too bad but it takes forever to kill even the mooks.  (I also spam shiled bash a bit too much with the right bumper.)

 

I just smash my face into the keyboard or controller. That helped me solo Perilous with the AW, after all... Why would it not work for the Lego?

 

B)



#22
DrKilledbyDeath

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Hey Mortiel, do you know a lot about how guard takes damage for a person?

 

Like, lets say I have 100 points of guard and I get hit for 200, does it just kill your guard then stop or would you take 100 points after the guard was gone (not factoring in things like damage mitigation or anything just wondering if even a couple points of guard can absorb a full blow)



#23
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Hey Mortiel, do you know a lot about how guard takes damage for a person?

 

Like, lets say I have 100 points of guard and I get hit for 200, does it just kill your guard then stop or would you take 100 points after the guard was gone (not factoring in things like damage mitigation or anything just wondering if even a couple points of guard can absorb a full blow)

 

You are asking if Guard has a "shield-gate" like ME3? As far as I have seen, no, but I have not specifically tested it.

Demon Commander used to shred right through full guard and health with a single hit on Perilous without a Spirit Tonic, but the damage might have just been high enough to bypass any "guard-gate".

 

However, I will ask our friendly BioWare devs if they could shed a bit more light on that. Let me see if I can find out more.



#24
Altruismo

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You are asking if Guard has a "shield-gate" like ME3? As far as I have seen, no, but I have not specifically tested it.

Demon Commander used to shred right through full guard and health with a single hit on Perilous without a Spirit Tonic, but the damage might have just been high enough to bypass any "guard-gate".

 

However, I will ask our friendly BioWare devs if they could shed a bit more light on that. Let me see if I can find out more.

 

Someone who uses the much maligned Dwarven Longsword might be a good person to answer the question.

Considering how most people I've seen talking about the sword seem to find the "3 guard per hit" to be very uninspiring, I'd guess guard is straight up additive to your health, and doesn't offer any cool "guard-gate".

I know I frequently see single hits take both the last of my guard and a chunk of health.

 

It does raise an interesting point though, the wording of the tooltip for guard is that it "must be broken before a target will take damage". That could be interpreted to indicate that damage can't "spill" to your health if you have guard when you get hit...

I wonder what is actually the intended function? Most likely what we have now, which appears to be guard being effectively "extra health"



#25
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Someone who uses the much maligned Dwarven Longsword might be a good person to answer the question.

Considering how most people I've seen talking about the sword seem to find the "3 guard per hit" to be very uninspiring, I'd guess guard is straight up additive to your health, and doesn't offer any cool "guard-gate".

I know I frequently see single hits take both the last of my guard and a chunk of health.

 

It does raise an interesting point though, the wording of the tooltip for guard is that it "must be broken before a target will take damage". That could be interpreted to indicate that damage can't "spill" to your health if you have guard when you get hit...

I wonder what is actually the intended function? Most likely what we have now, which appears to be guard being effectively "extra health"

 

Well, anyone watching the stream tomorrow should ask some specifics about these kind of mechanics I think... It would be a question the devs can actually answer, in contrast to the "DLC when?" question that gets asked a hundred times.