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[Paragon Fury]

So I've run into a snag on the defense of Haven Mission.

 

My original Nightmare run ended early when I saw that Two-Handed Warrior was going to be a massive pain, so I ended it and switched to continuing the story from my Archer. I made extra sure that I out-leveled Champions of the Just, doing basically all the available sidequests except for the Shards/Temple and some Fade Rifts.

 

I barely survived Champions of the Just - ran out of potions and got lucky that Envy aggro'd onto Cole at less than 15% health so I could just plink away at him. So I'm Level 9, Party Members are Level 8. Thought I could handle this next story quest.

 

Very incorrect. I can get all the way to the end, but I cannot reach the end; I get to Fiona, but then even if I fudge my way in keeping some health pots she just annihilates the party with the help of her adds.

 

My party is:

 

Inquisitor : Archer

Blackwall: Sword'n'Board

Cassandra: 2HD Weapons

Vivienne: Spirit + Lightning Mage

 

I think one of the bigger issues is that I simply cannot find a better weapon for Vive or my Archer, or designs for them. I lucked out and got a Purple Armor for Blackwall and some blue weapons for him and Cassandra. But my Archer has had to make due with a piddly 70DMG bow and Vivienne still hasn't found anything to replace the 56DMG Purple Staff I found (which was at least good at the time).

 

The only things I have that I can do before the Haven defense mission are Rifts (which are filled with Level 9-12 demons that decimate my party right now), the Shards for the Temple (which I'm assuming just leads to a crap ton of high-level demons) or the Fallow Marsh...which is definitely pretty painful (if not outright impossible).

 

So I'm kind of at loss as to what to do here. The only thing I could think of is dropping all of Vive's Spirit abilities (except for Barrier) and just having her straight drop the Thunder on people, but I'm not sure that would work.

[Elhanan]

Personally recommend substituting another Mage for the 2H Warrior. The AoE spells are helpful, though I have only approached this battle from the other choice.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I agree, Spec Viv or Solas into Inferno with Immolate preferred then take both mages. Need to micro manage viv a bit to get her to cast barrier as often as she can and, keep it on melee fighters first. You and mages can stay at range a bit while the cooldown is on but, your tank needs barrier.

[actionhero112]

How much money do you have? 

 

Your first priority should be buying t2 heavy armor schematics for your tank and t2 weapon schematics for your dps from Val Royeaux. I usually have this before the Templar or Mage Sidequest. Even with t1 materials, they will be far better than what you're wielding right now. Usually. If you scum out a lot of Paragon's Luster from the Oasis you can get OP equipment for your party at this point. 

 

Lightning blows. Sorry but this is nightmare and Fire is a million times better. Everything and anything worthwhile in lightning at this point in the game can be gotten with one ability point. (Energy Barrage/Chain Lightning) so there is no reason to go deep into the lightning tree.

 

I usually get Wall of Fire for that fight, it makes melees a joke.

 

You can do the Fallow Mire at Level 8. I've done it earlier on nightmare. It's all in your equipment. 

[DomeWing333]

Fiona is very tough to directly confront on NM, but I've actually found that she doesn't like to move much from the little alleyway she comes out of. So I've actually been able get her to de-aggro from my whole group by just moving my people as far away from her as I can. That lets you deal with the Venatori first and then focus fire on her. If that doesn't work, then bring 2 warriors and give them loads of knockdown abilities like mighty blow, shield bash, and charging bull to interrupt her spell casting.

 

Also don't forget to equip grenades and regen potions. A couple Jar of Bees can take out archers and do quite a bit of damage to Fiona.

[Scofield]

drop cass for solas - spirit, fade step, viv - fire/lightning-barrier

Archers = priority

In combat use Health pots not regen an top up full party before you use the cache

Prioritize Barrier

Try no use the cache at the last trebuchet until the 2nd or 3rd wave

Prioritize Archers

Ignore Fiona get adds

 

I do this i get to last trebuchet with full regen pots an full health pots

[Elhanan]

Again, I have not yet met the Mages at Haven, but perhaps arming all Mages with Dispel Magic might be a viable tactic; certainly helps when opposing them in other areas of the game.

[Heyokah]

One easy trick is when you have to turn the treb do so a little at a time.  2-4 adds will appear, kill them, and then turn it again.  Once Fiona comes out she will bring extra adds and I tend to zerg her down asap.  

 

Per your party makeup you only need one warrior as they will run over mines and those hurt.  Having two fire mages is optimal imo; one or both with freezing grasp as well.  Also make sure your mages have barrier set as a priority spell so if you are not micro managing you can be sure that it will be cast.  

 

One last thing, regen potions....use them!  When I know Fiona is about to pop I make sure everyone has a regen potion running.  Use one on yourself 1st and when it wears off reapply for the whole party if needs be.

 

The real trick is after this fight when you have to save people in Haven.  To do this I usually run off and leave the party behind while saving everyone I can.

 

Btw - this is the hardest quest in the game I believe; mainly because if you haven't properly prepared for it (tier 2 schematics and regen potions) you are in for a tough time.

[Paragon Fury]

So I changed Vivienne to a Fire/Spirit Mage, Cassandra went back to Sword'n'Board and I'm still in Archer. I brought along Iron Bull to try him out doing some sidequests; he was alright, but I was wondering if Cole/Sera as a Dagger Rogue might be a bit more helpful, since they're not as intent on taking damage (leaving that to Cassandra) and should provide higher burst on targets that need it.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Leave bull out of it for now, he's a bit squishy early game. Cass is good, Blackwall is good too. Were it me, I'd go with Viv, Blackwall, Sera as a DW. Coles is a bit squishier than Sera so, she's the better choice. Why Blackwall? he has grappling chain and AI uses it well with him so, he can and will pull enemies away from others and to himself.

[Bigdawg13]

I'm starting to see a similar recipe to what I saw in all of AreleX's guides.  Minimize melee dps as much as possible.  So, if you're an archer, then you pretty much will want to stick to two mages and 1 tank.  Have one of your mages focus on support/barrier and the other CC (static cage, frost mine, etc).  Control the battle.  I did not realize how having 2 mages makes haven an easy fight (both with static cage) until I ran with only 1 mage (who did not have static cage).  The ability to control the enemy cannot be emphasized enough.  No amount of epic gear will match the control two mages offer.

 

If I'm a warrior, I respec to SnS for the haven fight.  If I'm a rogue, I make sure I'm an archer for the haven fight.  If I'm a mage, I make sure I have complimentary CC/barrier.

 

Also, the bee bombs help out.  And if someone doesn't have bee bombs, then they should have regeneration potions.

 

After skyhold, I'm starting to feel like Vivianne is the new Anders.  I pretty much have her in every group on nightmare with barrier, revival, and spirit blade as preferred.

[Mageling]

As already mentioned, turn it a couple of notches and kill the adds that spawn. Do this until Fiona arrives.

 

Stand your party (stick to position) near the entrance where Fiona spawns and have 2 Mages in your party. You should stay next to the trebuchet and keep turning as soon as you can while Fiona is up. Keep rotating your barrier on the 3 party members stood next to Fiona, throwing in the odd freeze here and there to relieve pressure on your party.

 

If you do this, you will have enough time to turn the treb the last 1/4 of the bar which is required.

 

Remember your objective is to fire the trebuchet, not kill Fiona.

[OrionAnderson]

The AI is not that good with 2H warriors or dagger rogues. If you want to use one, set their AI to not use health potions so you can decide when to let them die and when to try to save them. If you want to make life easy on yourself, you want a S&S tank, an archer, a mage, and then another mage or archer. As others have noted, the tier 2 weapon schematics from Val Royeaux are good enough to kill everything Pre-Skyhold.

 

If you don't want to bother with crafting, you can get a good bow from the astrarium puzzle on the storm coast. 

[ApostleinTriumph]

My god, Champions of the Just on Nightmare is brutal. I already finished the game on Nightmare with a Rogue Archer, but I did In Hushed Whispers and this time I'm playing a SnS Warrior. I havent even come to the Envy Demon and all my party is one bar away from death, and with 0 potions. You only have one opportunity to resupply potions before the barrier part, and then you pretty much go through the side doors with no potions. But last part where you party tried to hold as barrier goes down seems impossible currently to me with this low hp and no potions. I would really like a chat with the person who thought it was okay to give only 1 supply crate (and at the beginning, that).

 

In Hushed Whispers you can resupply 2-3 times. So why so few here?

[Arvaarad]

My god, Champions of the Just on Nightmare is brutal. I already finished the game on Nightmare with a Rogue Archer, but I did In Hushed Whispers and this time I'm playing a SnS Warrior. I havent even come to the Envy Demon and all my party is one bar away from death, and with 0 potions. You only have one opportunity to resupply potions before the barrier part, and then you pretty much go through the side doors with no potions. But last part where you party tried to hold as barrier goes down seems impossible currently to me with this low hp and no potions. I would really like a chat with the person who thought it was okay to give only 1 supply crate (and at the beginning, that).

In Hushed Whispers you can resupply 2-3 times. So why so few here?

I did Champions of the Just on my first playthrough, and was shocked by how many resupply crates were in In Hushed Whispers. Made it a cakewalk - wish there had been a lot fewer.

The key is positioning and picking battles. In the side doors, don't fight any enemies that aren't necessary (send a rogue past them in stealth, if needed), and use the platforms in the barrier phase. The platforms shield from ranged attacks unless you're close to the edge, and some well-placed walls or paralyzes can cut off the choke points. Fighting 1-2 templars at a time is manageable, even with 0 health and potions.

You don't need to save any potions during the barrier phase, because you get a crate before the next encounter. And don't use any potions in the next encounter until you're fighting multiple enemies - people get one- or two-shot anyway, so don't waste the limited supply of potions. Just res people as needed. On a second run of Champions of the Just, you'll have dodge abilities on every party member, but lacking those you'll be fine just rezzing people promptly when they die.

[ApostleinTriumph]

I did Champions of the Just on my first playthrough, and was shocked by how many resupply crates were in In Hushed Whispers. Made it a cakewalk - wish there had been a lot fewer.

The key is positioning and picking battles. In the side doors, don't fight any enemies that aren't necessary (send a rogue past them in stealth, if needed), and use the platforms in the barrier phase. The platforms shield from ranged attacks unless you're close to the edge, and some well-placed walls or paralyzes can cut off the choke points. Fighting 1-2 templars at a time is manageable, even with 0 health and potions.

You don't need to save any potions during the barrier phase, because you get a crate before the next encounter. And don't use any potions in the next encounter until you're fighting multiple enemies - people get one- or two-shot anyway, so don't waste the limited supply of potions. Just res people as needed. On a second run of Champions of the Just, you'll have dodge abilities on every party member, but lacking those you'll be fine just rezzing people promptly when they die.

 

I decided that it's not feasible and likely possible to finish this quest at level 7. I brought 5 regen potions for everyone this time, and still even though the earlier parts went okay, Envy Demon destroyed me. I pretty much do very little damage to him, and those jumps and other stuff just kill my main character who is melee, and Iron Bull.

 

I think I will level 1-2 more levels in The Hinterlands and maybe Fallow Mire. I will come back with Solas, Vivienne and Varric this time. Only my character will be melee.

 

You're right, compared to this brutal mission, In Hushed Whispers on Nighmare is a freaking joke. You can resupply 3 times or so.

[PapaCharlie9]

It definitely is possible to do, at level 6 even, NM, and solo to boot. This isn't me, but I've seen more than one of these kinds of videos.

 

 

I can't find the video, but there is one where a solo archer did it without using a single potion.

[Arvaarad]

IIRC, doing it at level 6 is actually easier than 7, because the enemies have less CC immunities.

[Gothfather]

I think the main problem people have with many boss fights, is that they still fall back on standard RPG tropes with regards to healing. Far too many people look at their potions as this is the only healing I have so I better conserve it and not take anymore damage than I can heal. While this is accurate it is stuck in the old model of damage vs health vs healing.

 

The new dynamic in DA:I is that you should no longer be reactive to damage as in "when I get hurt I heal." Instead you want to be proactive, I do x so damage wont happen. This means using dodge abilities each class has them. It means using barrier on your tank. It means building a tank with fast guard generation. It means using flanking bonus for rogues and mages, as most enemies can't hurt you with their back to you, this means moving the tank around the enemy so your warrior is facing your party with the enemy between the warrior and the rest of the party. The enemy will face the warrior which means its back is facing the rest of the party.  it means learning the TELLS of enemies. The Envy demon has a huge tell, learn it, when it activates dodge. To be proactive you have to be willing to use the tactical camera. If you are a rogue or mage have all the other party members target the warrior's target not yours. Do not be afraid of using DW rogues, the amount of DPS this class does is hands down the best in the game. Use daggers with AOE damage and watch them tear into adds like a hot knife through butter. You should be thinking I have to do X,Y, & Z to mitigate and lessen any Damage this encounter will do, which will be well within the limited supplies of potions I have. If you are reacting to the damage done to you, you are responding too late and you will take far more damage then someone anticipating the damage before it happens and using their active abilities to mitigate it.

 

The above said you will still need to heal but it should no longer be the default response to damage. Healing is the reaction to damage you failed to prevent with your proactive measures.

[ApostleinTriumph]

I gave it another try after leveling up, getting the lvl 8 masterwork purple heavy armor from Hinterlands southwest, and I also took Solas this time, so it was 2x Mages. With 2x Barriers, everything was really easy. I feel like in Nightmare I am feeling like I'm punishing myself for not taking two mages. At the moment I am struggling with the Trebuchet fight in In Your Heart Shall Burn, and guess what, I brought Cole instead of Solas this time

 

I guess you dont bring Iron Bull with you to this mission.