407 réponses à ce sujet

[fraggle]

Wow did you just point out a plothole and ignore it?

 

"(it's in a Codex entry:

Although the Citadel is equipped with mass-effect-generating element zero cores, most of the gravity on the station is generated by the centrifugal force of rotation.)"

 

3. With the main core of the Citadel destroyed (where the Crucible docked is also where Sovereign docked to gain access to all security) what maintained it's artificial atmosphere (Gravity/Oxygen)?

 

Tell me with the arms blown off and the central circle seriously damaged what in your mind maintained this "Centrifugal Force"?

 

 

4:21 to look at that explosion again

 

It says MOST of the gravity. You just have to accept it still works somehow (and besides, Shepard is nowhere near the arms, he's at the tower).

The devs might have forgotten to change the scene in EC, as it is exactly the same scene as in the original ending. So I'm going to take the slide as their intending depiction of the Citadel after the Destroy wave, and with this you can see that the tower is also still there. It seems to me the explosion affects certain parts of the Citadel, but not everything.

[DSiKn355]

It says MOST of the gravity. You just have to accept it still works somehow (and besides, Shepard is nowhere near the arms, he's at the tower).

The devs might have forgotten to change the scene in EC, as it is exactly the same scene as in the original ending. So I'm going to take the slide as their intending depiction of the Citadel after the Destroy wave, and with this you can see that the tower is also still there. It seems to me the explosion affects certain parts of the Citadel, but not everything.

 

 

Welp, I guess we can chalk this up to there not being different types of animation going on during this scene. In Synthesis, the flame-out on the Citadel is cut just a wee bit shorter. In any case, the epilogue slide pretty much shows us what the Citadel looks like in high EMS destroy before it's repaired.

 

 

^This slide?

[AlanC9]

1. So are you saying in ME3 they retcon the events of ME1? Because this:

"Sovereign while it positions itself at the Citadel Tower, extruding numerous small tubes from its underside and into the structure. It then begins to override the station's controls and manually open the relay to dark space."

Is what Sovereign was doing in ME1 not repairs and the data file made by Vigil was used to temporarily prevent Sovereign from gaining full control of the Citadel.

Remember, all Sovereign actually did in ME1 was latch onto the Citadel and play a weird light show. We made assumptions about what was going on there. Though as it happens those assumptions were mostly correct -- Sovereign was trying to manually open a Relay that should have opened by other means already.

Retcon? If you like. But by that standard the series is full of retcons. ME1 retcons itself when it establishes that the Protheans built the Citadel, and then establishes that they did not.

2. "In a sense, this depends on whether you see ME as sci-fi or as fantasy" Does this statement mean that if you see the Reapers as "monsters" and no hidden agenda then you are looking at it as "Fantasy"?

No. It's about that agenda being irrational and inexplicable. In SF you have to deliver the goods, but in fantasy you can just say they're monsters and call it a day.

For me the feeling I had about the Reapers from ME1 was that they geared civilizations to a pinnacle of technology so that they could harvest them for technological resources to add to themselves and sustain and continue their own existence with each harvest.

Two problems. First, "technological resources" is a bit vague. Are we talking refined metals, integrated circuits, tankers full of omni-gel, or what? Second, it's horribly inefficient to wait 50,000 years for organics to get good at making the stuff and then kill them off the moment they do get good. Why not just set up robotic factories and keep them humming away all the time?

You believe the breath clip in Destroy is on the Citadel or Crucible then?

Yes.

[fraggle]

^This slide?

 

Yup.

[DSiKn355]

Remember, all Sovereign actually did in ME1 was latch onto the Citadel and play a weird light show. We made assumptions about what was going on there. Though as it happens those assumptions were mostly correct -- Sovereign was trying to manually open a Relay that should have opened by other means already.

Retcon? If you like. But by that standard the series is full of retcons. ME1 retcons itself when it establishes that the Protheans built the Citadel, and then establishes that they did not.


No. It's about that agenda being irrational and inexplicable. In SF you have to deliver the goods, but in fantasy you can just say they're monsters and call it a day.


Two problems. First, "technological resources" is a bit vague. Are we talking refined metals, integrated circuits, tankers full of omni-gel, or what? Second, it's horribly inefficient to wait 50,000 years for organics to get good at making the stuff and then kill them off the moment they do get good. Why not just set up robotic factories and keep them humming away all the time?

Yes.

 

1. When was it stated the Relays should open by other means?

 

2."It's about that agenda being irrational and inexplicable. In SF you have to deliver the goods" again The Terminator and West World. try not to ignore this lol.

 

3. A factory of slaves that die off? Ok maybe you don't understand how evolution works so I will explain how this will effect the technological resources...

 

Think of it like this... To get to the age of 20 it will be different for both me and you, imagine us as representing two different races in different cycles.

You maybe believe in "might makes right" and when you develop your space exploration vehicles they are all made with the intention of war so your specs would be different to mine which are set for exploration.

 

The environments we live in shape us and whatever dangers we face, resources available to us, planet we are on etc etc all effect this growth or evolution.

 

This would then effect what Technologies are made and for what purpose.

 

This could never be any different if those life forms are living a "dormant" life in a Factory.

 

No growth, no evolution.

 

 

Yup.

 

Ok lol

[fraggle]

Ok lol

 

Why is it so funny?

[DSiKn355]

Why is it so funny?

 

Human imagination is a beautiful thing.

 

For me IT is the only way Shepard survives and I support it 100%.

 

Look even if somehow life support was still present on the Citadel there is still the issue of the already seriously injured Shepard that has no durable armor as it couldn't even prevent a shot to the shoulder as well as his seemingly near fatal wound to his abdomen.

 

Coupled with his near death fatigue it is hard to see him as surviving the initial explosion up close and in his face when he shoots the chamber for destry let alone surviving the nuke like explosion and chain reaction explosions which the "Metal" and "Concrete" miraculously worked as a cushion against the force of the blasts or the force of falling to another part of the Citadel, not to mention any debris from the blasts landing on him.

 

Could you Imagine how far it is to fall from the central area to one of the arms?

 

Hard objects usually don't make good cushions lol.

[Vazgen]

Human imagination is a beautiful thing.

 

For me IT is the only way Shepard survives and I support it 100%.

 

Look even if somehow life support was still present on the Citadel there is still the issue of the already seriously injured Shepard that has no durable armor as it couldn't even prevent a shot to the shoulder as well as his seemingly near fatal wound to his abdomen.

 

Coupled with his near death fatigue it is hard to see him as surviving the initial explosion up close and in his face when he shoots the chamber for destry let alone surviving the nuke like explosion and chain reaction explosions which the "Metal" and "Concrete" miraculously worked as a cushion against the force of the blasts or the force of falling to another part of the Citadel, not to mention any debris from the blasts landing on him.

 

Could you Imagine how far it is to fall from the central area to one of the arms?

 

Hard objects usually don't make good cushions lol.

Dude survived getting spaced...

[DSiKn355]

Dude survived getting spaced...

 

No he didn't lmfao

 

 

sur·vive

 (sər-vīv′)

v. sur·vived, sur·viv·ing, sur·vives

v.intr.

1. To remain alive or in existence.

2. To carry on despite hardships or trauma; persevere: families that were surviving in tents after the flood.

3. To remain functional or usable:

 

v.tr.

1. To live longer than; outlive: She survived her husband by five years.

2. To live, persist, or remain usable through: plants that can survive frosts; a clock that survived a fall.

3. To cope with (a trauma or setback); persevere after: survived child abuse.

 

 

Needing to be cloned is not "Surviving" lol

[Vazgen]

OK, resurrected  

[Torgette]

I think it's fun to entertain the idea of IT being a real thing namely because the ending is so bizarre.

 

I can still be satisfied if the ending is taken at face value though.

[DSiKn355]

OK, resurrected

 

But still that validates him surviving grave injuries, nanomachines inside him that sustain him stopping working, explosion impacts as well as impact with metal and concrete.

 

Imagination.... Such a beautiful thing lol.

 

See, none of the actual explosions bother me. I get the high EMS ending regardless. I don't need "IT" to make that happen.

 

 

I'm only concerned on what the nature of Shepard's injuries are. Just how "partially synthetic" is he? If it's a lot, then the Crucible would've caused more damage than a explosion would. It's primary strength is frying synthetics. Not just blowing stuff up. And I don't know if Shep is even truly human anymore.. I hope so, but they leave it to speculation.

 

Yeah that added with his already injured bleeding out body and impact with whatever metal and concrete doesn't seem promising.

 

The breath clips seems more of a "last breath" rather than "still alive breath" lol.

[Abelas Forever!]

I didn't know that it was confirmed that Shepard is still at Citadel in that breathing scene. Well I guess that proves that IT isn't true and  I liked so much that the whole ending could have happen in Shepard's mind or at least the possibility of it.

[DSiKn355]

What's the point of showing a breath clip, if it's just the same as a lower EMS death? "We're showing him breathing, just to tell you he'll die seconds later." Why? What is the purpose of that?

 

I understand people want to view Bioware cynically, but they aren't that lame. 

 

Just lame at story telling when they let two guys take over the ending without input from the rest of the team lol.

 

http://www.gameranx....versial-ending/

 

nah but seriously...

 

I get it would be stupid just to show his last breath but it's insane to believe he could survive all that trauma (injuries/impacts/explosions) in his already fatigued body.

Remember Anderson was only fatigued (no noticeable injuries) and died from one gun shot wound to the stomach/side.

 

Yet Shepard with his injuries survived explosions and rubble falling on top of him?

 

I didn't know that it was confirmed that Shepard is still at Citadel in that breathing scene. Well I guess that proves that IT isn't true and  I liked so much that the whole ending could have happen in Shepard's mind or at least the possibility of it.

 

It's called "the tweet of one man which can be readily ignored and denied" lol

[Torgette]

I didn't know that it was confirmed that Shepard is still at Citadel in that breathing scene. Well I guess that proves that IT isn't true and  I liked so much that the whole ending could have happen in Shepard's mind or at least the possibility of it.

 

Well at least we got confirmation the Citadel is made out of concrete and rebar! 

[Abelas Forever!]

It's called "the tweet of one man which can be readily ignored and denied" lol

Or maybe I can just forget that I read that tweet and live happily wondering whether IT is true or not

 

 

Well at least we got confirmation the Citadel is made out of concrete and rebar! 

[DSiKn355]

Or maybe I can just forget that I read that tweet and live happily wondering whether IT is true or not

 

 

YES!!! That too IT is a great way to see the ending

[fraggle]

Could you Imagine how far it is to fall from the central area to one of the arms?

 

Is it confirmed somewhere he is falling down on the arms? He was in the tower. And that tower still stands in the EC slide.

 

I get it would be stupid just to show his last breath but it's insane to believe he could survive all that trauma (injuries/impacts/explosions) in his already fatigued body.

Remember Anderson was only fatigued (no noticeable injuries) and died from one gun shot wound to the stomach/side.

 

Anderson however was never "upgraded" as Shep was. In ME2 you can strengthen him even more via upgrades.

And depending on where you shoot someone, yeah, it's instant death. Shepard however was not shot. We don't know how bad his wounds are, even though it looks pretty bad.

 

I mean, it's cool, believe what you want, I'm not making fun of you for it, the ending can be tailored to each Shepard. Some of my Shepards will die, no doubt, but if I want one to live, so be it. I don't see any reason that Shepard has to be dead. It was ridiculous enough before: That guy already beat dying, Reaper encounters, a Reaper laser beam, so why not survive the explosion? He beats death with willpower and has generally the biggest luck someone can have

 

And then I'd read these here:

http://www.ibtimes.c...spoilers-359507

http://forum.bioware...d-cut-spoilers/

One of the goals for the Extended Cut, as part of addressing player feedback, was to provide more time with the love interest, and more opportunity for players to say goodbye to them and provide additional moments of connection between them. We did this in several ways:

• You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

[DSiKn355]

 

Is it confirmed somewhere he is falling down on the arms? He was in the tower. And that tower still stands in the EC slide.

 

 

Anderson however was never "upgraded" as Shep was. In ME2 you can strengthen him even more via upgrades.

And depending on where you shoot someone, yeah, it's instant death. Shepard however was not shot. We don't know how bad his wounds are, even though it looks pretty bad.

 

I mean, it's cool, believe what you want, I'm not making fun of you for it, the ending can be tailored to each Shepard. Some of my Shepards will die, no doubt, but if I want one to live, so be it. I don't see any reason that Shepard has to be dead. It was ridiculous enough before: That guy already beat dying, Reaper encounters, a Reaper laser beam, so why not survive the explosion? He beats death with willpower and has generally the biggest luck someone can have

 

And then I'd read these here:

http://www.ibtimes.c...spoilers-359507

http://forum.bioware...d-cut-spoilers/

One of the goals for the Extended Cut, as part of addressing player feedback, was to provide more time with the love interest, and more opportunity for players to say goodbye to them and provide additional moments of connection between them. We did this in several ways:

• You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

 

 

Your gonna need to show what tower you are talking about with some kind of evidence as all I know is your in a tunnel then follow it to an open room to then go up in a platform/elevator to where the Crucible is.

 

The Crucible is missing from the still in the EC so that area was decimated.

 

Exert from your provided article:

 

"The combination of these two pivotal events has led gamers to believe that Shepard is indeed alive amid the Crucible wreckage"

 

And if you think he was in one location where the explosion happened and never moved from there via force of the explosion and just seemed to "tank" it and live including handling debris that landed on top of him then.... I won't argue with that right there lol

 

We are all free to believe what we want right?

[fraggle]

Your gonna need to show what tower you are talking about with some kind of evidence as all I know is your in a tunnel then follow it to an open room to then go up in a platform/elevator to where the Crucible is.

The Crucible is missing from the still in the EC so that area was decimated.

 

Ok, so we have:

The beam that transports Shepard up to the Citadel, and you can see the tower in this picture as well in the inner circle (right side).

Spoiler

 

Here's where the Crucible docked, directly at the tower.

Spoiler

 

Have another one.

Spoiler

 

And here you can see, green is where Shepard makes the choice because that's where the Crucible is also docked. So he's definitely at the tower. And yeah, the Crucible is not shown in the EC slide, as the slide shows a future depiction of the Citadel, but the tower is still visible and more or less intact

Spoiler

 

 

I won't argue with that right there lol

We are all free to believe what we want right?

 

Yes, yet you keep at it if people believe in Shepard's survival.

Let's just quit here, I really don't care My Shepard survived and I'm happy. What you do with your Shep is your thing

[AlanC9]

1. When was it stated the Relays should open by other means?
 

I'm not certain where you're going with that. If relays can open only via the intended means, then what is Sovereign doing? Docking with the Citadel certainly wasn't the original plan.

2."It's about that agenda being irrational and inexplicable. In SF you have to deliver the goods" again The Terminator and West World. try not to ignore this lol.

That's silly. The Terminator's plan is perfectly rational, and the plan in Westworld is quite explicable, though since it's derived from equipment failure it's hardly rational. So.. lol?
 

3. A factory of slaves that die off?

I was talking about robotic factories. So, no.

Ok maybe you don't understand how evolution works so I will explain how this will effect the technological resources...
 
Think of it like this... To get to the age of 20 it will be different for both me and you, imagine us as representing two different races in different cycles.
You maybe believe in "might makes right" and when you develop your space exploration vehicles they are all made with the intention of war so your specs would be different to mine which are set for exploration.
 
The environments we live in shape us and whatever dangers we face, resources available to us, planet we are on etc etc all effect this growth or evolution.
 
This would then effect what Technologies are made and for what purpose.

No growth, no evolution.

OK, so you're going the full Mordin here. I suppose I can't dismiss this out of hand since it's official MEU lore -- however silly it is,

So essentially the Reapers are interested in technological advances rather than anything physical they could get from the harvests? And somehow, in the few years where the organics of a cycle are aporoaching technological parity with the Reapers, they might invent something of use? And the Reapers are too stupid to do their own inventing?
 
Well, OK. For a few cycles. But hundreds? Thousands?

[DSiKn355]

Ok, so we have:

The beam that transports Shepard up to the Citadel, and you can see the tower in this picture as well in the inner circle (right side).

Spoiler

 

Here's where the Crucible docked, directly at the tower.

Spoiler

 

Have another one.

Spoiler

 

And here you can see, green is where Shepard makes the choice because that's where the Crucible is also docked. So he's definitely at the tower. And yeah, the Crucible is not shown in the EC slide, as the slide shows a future depiction of the Citadel, but the tower is still visible and more or less intact

Spoiler

 

 

 

Yes, yet you keep at it if people believe in Shepard's survival.

Let's just quit here, I really don't care My Shepard survived and I'm happy. What you do with your Shep is your thing

 

So the major explosion akin to a nuke happens right where Shepard is... kool

 

Not to mention a blast of that magnitude not having the force to send him flying off of that small platform lol.

 

You can see how that doesn't work for me but its kool as we have our freedom.

 

I'm not certain where you're going with that. If relays can open only via the intended means, then what is Sovereign doing? Docking with the Citadel certainly wasn't the original plan.


That's silly. The Terminator's plan is perfectly rational, and the plan in Westworld is quite explicable, though since it's derived from equipment failure it's hardly rational. So.. lol?
 

I was talking about robotic factories. So, no.


OK, so you're going the full Mordin here. I suppose I can't dismiss this out of hand since it's official MEU lore -- however silly it is,

So essentially the Reapers are interested in technological advances rather than anything physical they could get from the harvests? And somehow, in the few years where the organics of a cycle are aporoaching technological parity with the Reapers, they might invent something of use? And the Reapers are too stupid to do their own inventing?
 
Well, OK. For a few cycles. But hundreds? Thousands?

 

1. Still aint shown me no proof of this supposed "original plan", just more of your "speculation" bro.

 

2. So west world is Irrational thus goes against your statement yet is still a cult classic in the scifi world thanks

 

3. Robots that don't evolve are supposed to produced evolved ideas lol.

 

4. It's not just MEU lore its the facts of evolution, nothing "silly" about it lol.

 

4a. So Reapers would match the organics by thousands of cycles? Strange how it required thousands of cycles worth of organic input for the reapers to then have an alternative to their harvesting cycles huh!? Coz of course they can't possible learn anything new from these lower intelligence organic lifeforms right?

 

Match me with facts and not speculation bro

 

They're not benefiting from anything physical or technological from the harvests.

 

 

If they went with Drew K's dark energy stuff, it would have had biological purpose... but that's out. They're only harvesting in order to preserve and protect....in their own twisted way. They're too boneheaded (not literally heh) to realize they're synthetics themselves and just repeating the same problem they're trying to prevent. All because they changed one word. "Killing" becomes "harvesting". Suddenly that makes them better than every other synthetic that killed organics.

 

And the worth of the ending itself hangs on your ability to accept that simple word change or not.

 

1. "They're not benefiting from anything physical or technological from the harvests."

 

"The Catalyst's solution dictated that all spacefaring organic and synthetic species would be harvested, with millions of bodies and minds from each race being processed and converted into new Reapers made in Harbinger's image, even as the Reapers themselves worked to destroy their civilizations. By doing this, the Reapers synthetically preserved the harvested race's genetic makeup and collective knowledge, while simultaneously allowing for more primitive races to advance."

 

Source: http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Catalyst

 

Can't harvest something organic from a synthetic right?

 

2.If they went with Drew K's dark energy stuff, it would have had biological purpose

 

Dark energy was originally gonna be something organics harness or used which was threatening the galaxy.

 

"Dark Energy was something that only organics could access because of various techno-science magic reasons we hadn't decided on yet. Maybe using this Dark Energy was having a ripple effect on the space-time continuum."

 

"Maybe the Reapers kept wiping out organic life because organics keep evolving to the state where they would use biotics and dark energy and that caused an entropic effect that would hasten the end of the universe. Being immortal beings, that's something they wouldn't want to see."

 

"Then we thought, let's take it to the next level. Maybe the Reapers are looking at a way to stop this. Maybe there's an inevitable descent into the opposite of the Big Bang (the Big Crunch) and the Reapers realise that the only way they can stop it is by using biotics, but since they can't use biotics they have to keep rebuilding society - as they try and find the perfect group to use biotics for this purpose. The asari were close but they weren't quite right, the Protheans were close as well."

 

"Again it's very vague and not fleshed out, it was something we considered but we ended up going in a different direction."

 

Source: http://www.eurogamer...-trilogy-ending