407 réponses à ce sujet

[Vazgen]

See the problem with basing an ending on Organics vs Synthetics is that you was able to make peace between the two.
And by using Reaper tech no less lol.
 
Yet the Reapers couldn't use their own tech to make peace instead their only option was "Harvest" the advanced Organics and Synthetics?
 
That doesn't make sense.
 
The fact the Reapers are a collection of races and have their collective knowledge yet still couldn't reach an alternative which you are able to do with Shep and Legion is again something that doesn't make sense.

How is this related to the endings being foreshadowed?
 

Overpopulation and depleting natural resources is possible. And it simply create a new nightmare situation for everyone. And then what? The AI use the reapers again to maintain this 'order' again?

Both of these are not an issue with Synthesis. Organics have only explored less than 1% of Milky Way. There are a ton of planets with resources and capability to sustain life (or being terraformed which is possible in MEU). Also, who said that reproduction will still be a thing after Synthesis? Truth is, we don't know anything about how it functions or how it was achieved.

[DSiKn355]

How is this related to the endings being foreshadowed?

 

Because it no longer makes sense to happen this way thus prevents it being foreshadowed.

 

The AI had the tools and knowledge to prevent these "cycles" from ever having to happen.

 

So to then say "these cycles are the only choice we had" is just rubbish and forced.

 

It's not foreshadowing because foreshadowing makes sense lol.

 

Foreshadowing is a literary device by which an author hints what is to come. It is used to avoid disappointment. It is also sometimes used to arouse the reader by using reasoning presented within the narrative.

 

So from when the narrative says "We have achieved peace between Synthetics and Organics through the use of Reaper Technology" to then say "We had no choice but to use the Reapers to Harvest the advanced lifeforms as there was no other alternative" breaks the logic of the narrative thus is not a foreshadowing as it is NOT within the reasoning of the narrative.

 

Understand?

[Vazgen]

Because it no longer makes sense to happen this way thus prevents it being foreshadowed.

 

The AI had the tools and knowledge to prevent these "cycles" from ever having to happen.

 

So to then say "these cycles are the only choice we had" is just rubbish and forced.

 

It's not foreshadowing because foreshadowing makes sense lol.

 

Foreshadowing is a literary device by which an author hints what is to come. It is used to avoid disappointment. It is also sometimes used to arouse the reader by using reasoning presented within the narrative.

 

So from when the narrative says "We have achieved peace between Synthetics and Organics through the use of Reaper Technology" to then say "We had no choice but to use the Reapers to Harvest the advanced lifeforms as there was no other alternative" breaks the logic of the narrative thus is not a foreshadowing as it is NOT within the reasoning of the narrative.

 

Understand?

First, if you have problem with things not making sense then you should've stopped at ME1.

Second, the "peace" you brokered is only possible with the Reapers harvesting everyone around.

Third, this "peace" is nothing but a capitulation on organic side. You sure the geth won't kill the quarians afterwards? Are you willing to bet the fate of the galaxy on it? The Catalyst sure isn't.

Fourth, it does not say that "the cycles are the only choice we had". It states that other options were attempted and failed. 

Fifth, if peace is possible with Reaper technology, what do you suggest? Replace harvesting cycle with a cycle of forceful implantation of synthetics and hope they will be peaceful afterwards? Brilliant. 

Sixth, Reaper technology came from harvesting in previous cycles.

 

The narrative does not say "We have achieved peace between Synthetics and Organics through the use of Reaper Technology". It says "We have achieved peace between Synthetics and Organics in the face of a greater threat". 

[DSiKn355]

First, if you have problem with things not making sense then you should've stopped at ME1.

Second, the "peace" you brokered is only possible with the Reapers harvesting everyone around.

Third, this "peace" is nothing but a capitulation on organic side. You sure the geth won't kill the quarians afterwards? Are you willing to bet the fate of the galaxy on it? The Catalyst sure isn't.

Fourth, it does not say that "the cycles are the only choice we had". It states that other options were attempted and failed. 

Fifth, if peace is possible with Reaper technology, what do you suggest? Replace harvesting cycle with a cycle of forceful implantation of synthetics and hope they will be peaceful afterwards? Brilliant. 

Sixth, Reaper technology came from harvesting in previous cycles.

 

The narrative does not say "We have achieved peace between Synthetics and Organics through the use of Reaper Technology". It says "We have achieved peace between Synthetics and Organics in the face of a greater threat". 

 

LMAO

 

1. Why so defensive?

2. Could you tell this ending or outcome from ME1? I don't think so, so why would I stop at ME1?

3. NO! No-one needed to be harvested for Legion to download the Reaper code. No-one needed to be Harvested for EDI to become advanced with Reaper Tech upgrades.

4. Why would the Geth kill the Quarians when they have choosen to help the Quarians? Speculation based on the flawed logic of the Catalyst is not a valid point as the logic of the Catalyst breaks the Narration lol.

5. "Other attempts failed" so the only choice was the Harvest lol. Otherwise other choices would be doomed to failure therefore invalid or a "wrong choice"

6.Failed speculation again. And that "forced implantation" is just the Synthesis ending right?   No all that is needed is a Synthetic race of higher understanding like the Reapers to then guide other synthetics once they reach that stage of awareness and wanting to surpass their creators the become their better selves.

7. No the Reaper code needed comes from the AI as it is a program and not a genetic organism which has been harvested.

 

Understand?

 

p.s You may have forgotten but the first reaper was build and designed by the Leviathans so the tech was already present before the first harvest.

[Vazgen]

LMAO

 

1. Why so defensive?

2. Could you tell this ending or outcome from ME1? I don't think so, so why would I stop at ME1?

3. NO! No-one needed to be harvested for Legion to download the Reaper code. No-one needed to be Harvested for EDI to become advanced with Reaper Tech upgrades.

4. Why would the Geth kill the Quarians when they have choosen to help the Quarians? Speculation based on the flawed logic of the Catalyst is not a valid point as the logic of the Catalyst breaks the Narration lol.

5. "Other attempts failed" so the only choice was the Harvest lol. Otherwise other choices would be doomed to failure therefore invalid or a "wrong choice"

6.Failed speculation again. And that "forced implantation" is just the Synthesis ending right?   No all that is needed is a Synthetic race of higher understanding like the Reapers to then guide other synthetics once they reach that stage of awareness and wanting to surpass their creators the become their better selves.

7. No the Reaper code needed comes from the AI as it is a program and not a genetic organism which has been harvested.

 

Understand?

LOL

 

1. (also 2) Not defensive, just saying that there are a ton of things that don't make any sense, in every game of the trilogy. Check the relevant thread in the lore section, if interested.

2. Had the races of the galaxy not been preoccupied with Reaper invasion, would there've been peace? Shepard would not have gone there, the organic races might've even aided the quarians. Hell, if the Reaper threat did not exist at all, Legion and EDI would not have been created. 

3. It is not based on Catalyst's logic. It's a simple question. Two races have a history, geth wiped out 99% of quarian population once, quarians attacked their megastructure. And we know what synthetics are capable of. So should I base the fate of the galaxy on speculation that there will be peace? I would not, even without Catalyst telling me the obvious.

4. What part of "other choices failed" you don't understand? Let me explain. Try one solution - fails, try another - fails, try harvest - succeeds but is not a permanent solution, keep doing it while trying other solution - fails, another solution - fails again...

5. Synthesis is not forced. The Catalyst says as much. It cannot be forced. As for your guidance solution, what if they don't accept Reaper guidance?

6. The Reaper code comes from the Reapers, not the Catalyst. And Reapers are created from harvesting races. 

 

Understand now?

[DSiKn355]

LOL

 

1. (also 2) Not defensive, just saying that there are a ton of things that don't make any sense, in every game of the trilogy. Check the relevant thread in the lore section, if interested.

2. Had the races of the galaxy not been preoccupied with Reaper invasion, would there've been peace? Shepard would not have gone there, the organic races might've even aided the quarians. Hell, if the Reapers did not exist at all, Legion and EDI would not have been created. 

3. It is not based on Catalyst's logic. It's a simple question. Two races have a history, geth wiped out 99% of quarian population once, quarians attacked their megastructure. And we know what synthetics are capable of. So should I base the fate of the galaxy on speculation that there will be peace? I would not, even without Catalyst telling me the obvious.

4. What part of "other choices failed" you don't understand? Let me explain. Try one solution - fails, try another - fails, try harvest - succeeds but is not a permanent solution, keep doing it while trying other solution - fails, another solution - fails again...

5. Synthesis is not forced. The Catalyst says as much. It cannot be forced. As for your guidance solution, what if they don't accept Reaper guidance?

6. The Reaper code comes from the Reapers, not the Catalyst. And Reapers are created from harvesting races. 

 

Understand now?

 

No bro sorry lol.

 

1. link me the thread.

 

2. The reasoning present as being behind the Reapers is the issue not the reapers presence themselves. But for all your speculating you have still said nothing to my alternative so should I take it you have nothing to counter with?

 

3. Lmao the peace was attained after the conflict so yes THAT conflict is over so peace will be attained. How is wiping out the races (harvesting) attaining peace?

 

4. IF your goal is to preserve the organics and only one choice works than that is the only choice you have, it's that simple. A failed choice is not a choice unless you want to fail lol.

 

5. Synthesis is forced lol. Was the Quarians presented with an option to choose? Asari? Krogan? Anyone other than Shepard? And how does Shepards HUMAN Dna make the Synthesis work with non Human Dna? Its BS on multiple levels lol.

 

6. No that makes no sense. Otherwise how could the first Reaper ever be built without first having the code? No the first Reaper was functioning as it turned on the Leviathans. Otherwise what did the AI use to capture/kill and process the Leviathans into creating the first reaper? Your logic has a plothole right there lol.

 

 

3:23

 

Understand?

 

I mean damn from when the Catalyst says "No the Synthetics would wipe out all Organic life" why the hell does that equate to kill and harvest organics when it could have been wipe out advance synthetic tech instead?

 

Organics would have been free to live out their natural cycle rather than being forced to advance by Reapers and then brought to an abrupt end by the Reapers lol.

[fraggle]

6. No that makes no sense. Otherwise how could the first Reaper ever be built without first having the code? No the first Reaper was functioning as it turned on the Leviathans. Otherwise what did the AI use to capture/kill and process the Leviathans into creating the first reaper? Your logic has a plothole right there lol.

 

Plotholes, plotholes.

Wiki:

"In order to fulfill its (Catalysts) task, it created pawns that spread throughout the galaxy, collecting physical data from various organics in the cosmos. It studied the development of civilizations, and its understanding grew until it found a solution."

and

"The Catalyst's solution took the form of the Reapers. The Intelligence turned on its creators, using its pawns to slaughter the Leviathans and process them into a construct based on their likeness. This construct was the very first Reaper, known to the modern galaxy as Harbinger. The memories of the Leviathans used to create Harbinger were preserved as the Reaper's gestalt consciousness, which in turn was incorporated into the Catalyst itself."

 

Have you actually paid attention to Shepard's talk with Leviathan?

[Vazgen]

No bro sorry lol.

 

1. link me the thread.

 

2. The reasoning present as being behind the Reapers is the issue not the reapers presence themselves. But for all your speculating you have still said nothing to my alternative so should I take it you have nothing to counter with?

 

3. Lmao the peace was attained after the conflict so yes THAT conflict is over so peace will be attained. How is wiping out the races (harvesting) attaining peace?

 

4. IF your goal is to preserve the organics and only one choice works than that is the only choice you have, it's that simple. A failed choice is not a choice unless you want to fail lol.

 

5. Synthesis is forced lol. Was the Quarians presented with an option to choose? Asari? Krogan? Anyone other than Shepard? And how does Shepards HUMAN Dna make the Synthesis work with non Human Dna? Its BS on multiple levels lol.

 

6. No that makes no sense. Otherwise how could the first Reaper ever be built without first having the code? No the first Reaper was functioning as it turned on the Leviathans. Otherwise what did the AI use to capture/kill and process the Leviathans into creating the first reaper? Your logic has a plothole right there lol.

 

3:23

 

Understand?

 

I mean damn from when the Catalyst says "No the Synthetics would wipe out all Organic life" why the hell does that equate to kill and harvest organics when it could have been wipe out advance synthetic tech instead?

 

Organics would have been free to live out their natural cycle rather than being forced to advance by Reapers and then brought to an abrupt end by the Reapers lol.

This is amusing

 

1. Link

2. No, both were created because of the Reaper threat, not because of organic vs synthetic conflict. You did not answer to my reply on your alternative. And you're the one speculating here, not me

3. LOL so when the conflict is over there will no longer be conflict, right? Like it happened with Germany, right? Harvesting races does not attain peace but ensures that organics are not wiped out. The organic life is preserved in Reaper form. Younger races get a chance to work things out. Stable organic/synthetic peace is the ultimate goal. Harvest stops when it is achieved (Synthesis).

4. So... what's the problem? Harvest was the only working choice

5. Synthesis is BS. As is Lazarus Project and Thorian cloning asari out of its ass. You have to just accept some things in the trilogy. The Catalyst says it can't be forced, therefore it is not forced. In the same way as "the helmet kept the brain intact", you just have to accept it. Nothing new there.

6. Leviathans explain that. Intelligence created purely synthetic pawns to gather data. Then it removed Leviathans from the equation, by attacking them with those pawns. Leviathans have no control over pure synthetics and they were defeated. Leviathans were harvested and gave birth to the first Reaper - Harbinger. 

 

It harvests organics because they fail. They create synthetics and get in conflict with them. Wiping out synthetic life accomplishes nothing, they'll just have to do it over and over again without any progress. Harvesting organics gives younger races a chance to work things out on their own. 

 

Understand?

[DSiKn355]

Plotholes, plotholes.

Wiki:

"In order to fulfill its (Catalysts) task, it created pawns that spread throughout the galaxy, collecting physical data from various organics in the cosmos. It studied the development of civilizations, and its understanding grew until it found a solution."

and

"The Catalyst's solution took the form of the Reapers. The Intelligence turned on its creators, using its pawns to slaughter the Leviathans and process them into a construct based on their likeness. This construct was the very first Reaper, known to the modern galaxy as Harbinger. The memories of the Leviathans used to create Harbinger were preserved as the Reaper's gestalt consciousness, which in turn was incorporated into the Catalyst itself."

 

Have you actually paid attention to Shepard's talk with Leviathan?

 

Still stands that the Reaper tech was around before the first cycle thus my alternative could have been done instead of the harvest.

 

This is amusing

 

1. Link

2. No, both were created because of the Reaper threat, not because of organic vs synthetic conflict. You did not answer to my reply on your alternative. And you're the one speculating here, not me

3. LOL so when the conflict is over there will no longer be conflict, right? Like it happened with Germany, right? Harvesting races does not attain peace but ensures that organics are not wiped out. The organic life is preserved in Reaper form. Younger races get a chance to work things out. Stable organic/synthetic peace is the ultimate goal. Harvest stops when it is achieved (Synthesis).

4. So... what's the problem? Harvest was the only working choice

5. Synthesis is BS. As is Lazarus Project and Thorian cloning asari out of its ass. You have to just accept some things in the trilogy. The Catalyst says it can't be forced, therefore it is not forced. In the same way as "the helmet kept the brain intact", you just have to accept it. Nothing new there.

6. Leviathans explain that. Intelligence created purely synthetic pawns to gather data. Then it removed Leviathans from the equation, by attacking them with those pawns. Leviathans have no control over pure synthetics and they were defeated. Leviathans were harvested and gave birth to the first Reaper - Harbinger. 

 

It harvests organics because they fail. They create synthetics and get in conflict with them. Wiping out synthetic life accomplishes nothing, they'll just have to do it over and over again without any progress. Harvesting organics gives younger races a chance to work things out on their own. 

 

Understand?

 

You confuse me lol.

 

You try to defend the ending but then call it BS? And that I must just accept it? Why must I accept BS?

 

1. Will check the link thx

 

2. your not making sense. I said it's the reasoning behind the Reapers which is the flaw yet you say it has nothing to do with the Synthetic vs Organics!? So then why was the Reapers made? lol.

 

3. So you base your speculation of a Synthetic race coexisting with an Organic race on an organic race in economic decline causing a war as it blames other countries for its state of affairs? Does that even make sense? The Geth were there to assist the Quarians and there needs to if they had a problem the Geth would do what they can to help so how would it be the same as Germany? poor example my friend

 

4. But it shouldn't be the only working choice if the Reaper code can then bring peace between Synthetics and Organics. The Catalyst should have had the Reapers act as guardians or guides for the advance Synthetic races that are created to attain real peace rather than killers of civilizations in some perverse idea of preservation. To preserve to keep something in its original state/form not melt it down into something new. That's transforming not preserving

 

5. I don't accept BS just like many others hence the complaints about the ending lol

 

6. Right I get that.

 

 

No I don't see because they are still doing a repeat process either way so why not do a repeat process which actually upholds the programming of preserving Organic like by not killing organics lol.

 

They don't even preserve anything of the races only knowledge.

 

no DNA is preserved as it is all mixed together and as you know male and female dna is different due to our chromosomes (XX/ XY)

no consciousness is preserved otherwise Shepard's crew that was used to power the human Reaper would have never attacked him as consciously they are his crew and aim to serve him not kill him.

So what of the organic race that actually relates to being organic is actually preserved?

 

That is why the Ending makes no sense as the logic of the Catalyst is flawed

[Vazgen]

You confuse me lol.

 

You try to defend the ending but then call it BS? And that I must just accept it? Why must I accept BS?

 

1. Will check the link thx

 

2. your not making sense. I said it's the reasoning behind the Reapers which is the flaw yet you say it has nothing to do with the Synthetic vs Organics!? So then why was the Reapers made? lol.

 

3. So you base your speculation of a Synthetic race coexisting with an Organic race on an organic race in economic decline causing a war as it blames other countries for its state of affairs? Does that even make sense? The Geth were there to assist the Quarians and there needs to if they had a problem the Geth would do what they can to help so how would it be the same as Germany? poor example my friend

 

4. But it shouldn't be the only working choice if the Reaper code can then bring peace between Synthetics and Organics. The Catalyst should have had the Reapers act as guardians or guides for the advance Synthetic races that are created to attain real peace rather than killers of civilizations in some perverse idea of preservation. To preserve to keep something in its original state/form not melt it down into something new. That's transforming not preserving

 

5. I don't accept BS just like many others hence the complaints about the ending lol

 

6. Right I get that.

 

 

No I don't see because they are still doing a repeat process either way so why not do a repeat process which actually upholds the programming of preserving Organic like by not killing organics lol.

 

They don't even preserve anything of the races only knowledge.

 

no DNA is preserved as it is all mixed together and as you know male and female dna is different due to our chromosomes (XX/ XY)

no consciousness is preserved otherwise Shepard's crew that was used to power the human Reaper would have never attacked him as consciously they are his crew and aim to serve him not kill him.

So what of the organic race that actually relates to being organic is actually preserved?

 

That is why the Ending makes no sense as the logic of the Catalyst is flawed

I think that Synthesis is an interesting concept but its execution in the game is BS. But it's no less BS than the Thorian, Lazarus Project and other instances of space magic in the trilogy. Why must you accept BS? Because you did it before. And in this case it's not forced on you, unlike those other two.

 

1. Anytime

 

2. The conversation was about the creation of Legion and EDI. Why did you bring Reaper creation here is beyond me.

 

3. I brought the example to illustrate that ending one conflict does not stop others from occurring with the same participants. Not to illustrate similarities between Germany and the geth/quarians. You face a being with billion+ years of experience and claim its logic as faulty while bringing an alliance forged in the face of a greater threat as an example of synthetic/organic peace. That alliance being an indicator of lasting peace is doubtful. And the Catalyst can't allow risks like that. You, however, can. So you can destroy the Reapers and the Catalyst.

 

4. You still haven't described what happens if a synthetic (or organic, because the problem has two sides) race does not accept Reaper guidance. 

 

5. Then, since you accepted other instances of pure BS through the course of the trilogy, your problem is not the BS itself but your subjective feelings about the ending. Disliking it on that merit is fine but claiming that you do it because of BS implementation, despite accepting similar BS in the past, comes out as hypocritical.

 

You don't know how the DNA is stored. Legion says about billions of organic minds, like the geth, so the minds are definitely preserved. There is also Javik with "experience is a biological marker, as is knowledge and skill". 

[aoibhealfae]

Both of these are not an issue with Synthesis. Organics have only explored less than 1% of Milky Way. There are a ton of planets with resources and capability to sustain life (or being terraformed which is possible in MEU). Also, who said that reproduction will still be a thing after Synthesis? Truth is, we don't know anything about how it functions or how it was achieved.

Not all system are habitable and feasible in long term (its like one in thousands or million chance) and galactic civilization doesn't run on unlimited resources. Since krogan can still procreate (in the slides), I assume former-organics retain its reproductive capacity. Assuming lifespan for each population quadruple and population rate increasing exponentially, this do set a very unsustainable future. And does the concept of life and death even applies anymore? Let's assume death is still a possibility among synthetic-organic creatures (at least until EDI's prediction that immortality is achievable for all), what would happen once their bodies stop functioning? Should they use reaper nanites and allow themselves to be preserved into sentient reaper-forms? 

 

We only assume that only organic and synthetic races was affected by the crucible.. but what about other lifeforms and microorganisms like plant, non-sentient animals, bacteria, parasites and viruses and/or actual inorganic pre-cursors to synthetic life like VIs or virulent malware and programs. Would the synthesis process affect them as well? What happened when a plague born out of a sentient computer virus suddenly affect an entire system or like Overlord's rogue AI-human hybrid which just a young man pleading for his torture to end and yet he killed a lot of people in the process? 

If synthesis is the true inevitable future of all lifeforms, then it should allowed the evolution process run its course. Unlike biosynthesis which do occur, what the Leviathan AI intended was forcing the creation of synthesis in which it became an artificial construct and that was a flawed concept by itself. And it merely add a new variable to its galactic experiment rather than a definite solution. And creating a backdrop for another creation myth.

Sorry.. pandering a bit.

[Vazgen]

Not all system are habitable and feasible in long term (its like one in thousands or million chance) and galactic civilization doesn't run on unlimited resources. Since krogan can still procreate (in the slides), I assume former-organics retain its reproductive capacity. Assuming lifespan for each population quadruple and population rate increasing exponentially, this do set a very unsustainable future. And does the concept of life and death even applies anymore? Let's assume death is still a possibility among synthetic-organic creatures (at least until EDI's prediction that immortality is achievable for all), what would happen once their bodies stop functioning? Should they use reaper nanites and allow themselves to be preserved into sentient reaper-forms? 

 

We only assume that only organic and synthetic races was affected by the crucible.. but what about other lifeforms and microorganisms like plant, non-sentient animals, bacteria, parasites and viruses and/or actual inorganic pre-cursors to synthetic life like VIs or virulent malware and programs. Would the synthesis process affect them as well? What happened when a plague born out of a sentient computer virus suddenly affect an entire system or like Overlord's rogue AI-human hybrid which just a young man pleading for his torture to end and yet he killed a lot of people in the process? 

If synthesis is the true inevitable future of all lifeforms, then it should allowed the evolution process run its course. Unlike biosynthesis which do occur, what the Leviathan AI intended was forcing the creation of synthesis in which it became an artificial construct and that was a flawed concept by itself. And it merely add a new variable to its galactic experiment rather than a definite solution. And creating a backdrop for another creation myth.

Sorry.. pandering a bit.

Don't forget, the galactic races also get all the knowledge of billion+ cycles. Much more efficient utilization of resources, fast and more drastic terraforming of planets etc. Who knows what knowledge is held there? Reproductive capacity may be altered, or simply viewed as unnecessary by these changed species. We can't even begin to guess what'll happen after Synthesis. But Milky Way is enormous and there are other galaxies to explore too. I don't see space and resources being an issue. 

[DSiKn355]

I think that Synthesis is an interesting concept but its execution in the game is BS. But it's no less BS than the Thorian, Lazarus Project and other instances of space magic in the trilogy. Why must you accept BS? Because you did it before. And in this case it's not forced on you, unlike those other two.

 

1. Anytime

 

2. The conversation was about the creation of Legion and EDI. Why did you bring Reaper creation here is beyond me.

 

3. I brought the example to illustrate that ending one conflict does not stop others from occurring with the same participants. Not to illustrate similarities between Germany and the geth/quarians. You face a being with billion+ years of experience and claim its logic as faulty while bringing an alliance forged in the face of a greater threat as an example of synthetic/organic peace. That alliance being an indicator of lasting peace is doubtful. And the Catalyst can't allow risks like that. You, however, can. So you can destroy the Reapers and the Catalyst.

 

4. You still haven't described what happens if a synthetic (or organic, because the problem has two sides) race does not accept Reaper guidance. 

 

5. Then, since you accepted other instances of pure BS through the course of the trilogy, your problem is not the BS itself but your subjective feelings about the ending. Disliking them on that merit is fine but claiming that you do it because of BS implementation, despite accepting similar BS in the past, comes out as hypocritical.

 

You don't know how the DNA is stored. Legion says about billions of organic minds, like the geth, so the minds are definitely preserved. There is also Javik with "experience is a biological marker, as is knowledge and skill". 

 

1. "Hell, if the Reaper threat did not exist at all, Legion and EDI would not have been created." This is a mistake on your part as the basic program which evolved into EDi and the Geth most definitely was created before the Reaper threat. And by the game logic Organics will create Synthetics regardless so no you are wrong here. but IF your point is "they wouldn't be as advanced" then yeah that would be right lol.

 

2. I see your thinking but conflicts are born form conflicting interests. The Geth have no such thing at that point because they want to help the Quarians and so long as the Quarians don't decide to attack them (after being 99% wiped out would be a good deterrent as any) I highly doubt any conflict would happen again as the Geth have no requirements for food or resources in which to have conflict over.

 

3. Reaper guidance would only be for the Synthetic and as we have seen synthetics can see Reapers as gods.

 

4. What part of the Lazarus project was BS? His brain remaining intact? And you will need to remind me of the BS involved with the Thorian as it is vague in my mind lol.

Was it that plant thing that was controlling people?

 

"You don't know how the DNA is stored" Hmmm well in ME2 all crew members were liquified and processed through tubes leading to the Reaper. They essentially became the "oil" that powered it. All "merged" together.

 

So nothing organic is actually preserved.

 

I think the thing is certain aspect during story telling can be bs and accepted to a certain degree so long it doesn't break the lore already established but the ending is critical and cannot afford the same leniency as it's the culmination of everything and the ultimate goal of the entire series so it needs to be of a high standard.

 

The 89% that hated it agrees with me lol.

[Vazgen]

 

1. "Hell, if the Reaper threat did not exist at all, Legion and EDI would not have been created." This is a mistake on your part as the basic program which evolved into EDi and the Geth most definitely was created before the Reaper threat. And by the game logic Organics will create Synthetics regardless so no you are wrong here. but IF your point is "they wouldn't be as advanced" then yeah that would be right lol.

 

2. I see your thinking but conflicts are born form conflicting interests. The Geth have no such thing at that point because they want to help the Quarians and so long as the Quarians don't decide to attack them (after being 99% wiped out would be a good deterrent as any) I highly doubt any conflict would happen again as the Geth have no requirements for food or resources in which to have conflict over.

 

3. Reaper guidance would only be for the Synthetic and as we have seen synthetics can see Reapers as gods.

 

4. What part of the Lazarus project was BS? His brain remaining intact? And you will need to remind me of the BS involved with the Thorian as it is vague in my mind lol.

Was it that plant thing that was controlling people? 

 

"You don't know how the DNA is stored" Hmmm well in ME2 all crew members were liquified and processed through tubes leading to the Reaper. They essentially became the "oil" that powered it. All "merged" together.

 

So nothing organic is actually preserved.

 

I think the thing is certain aspect during story telling can be bs and accepted to a certain degree so long it doesn't break the lore already established but the ending is critical and cannot afford the same leniency as it's the culmination of everything and the ultimate goal of the entire series so it needs to be of a high standard.

 

The 89% that hated it agrees with me lol.

1. I meant the Legion and EDI that were cooperating with organics. There would've been no Legion (the platform was made to contact Shepard after Sovereign attack) and no EDI (the rogue VI/AI from Luna was made what it is through Sovereign hardware) without Sovereign. 

 

2. Resources are not the only reason for conflict. There can be all kinds of conflicts. Social issues, geth plans, organic plans... 

 

3. For one, it needs to be for organics as well. Otherwise, Reaper guidance won't mean anything if organics attack synthetics out of fear or prejudice. Next, not all synthetics view the Reapers as gods. Even the geth were split about it. Heretics worshiped the Reapers, true geth did not.

 

4. Resurrecting "meat and tubes" to full operation. All while retaining all memories, experience. It is never explained in the universe, was never hinted at. Space magic at its finest. The Thorian was a huge plant that controlled minds through spores (which, funnily enough, didn't affect Shepard and his crew) and cloned green asari out of its ass/mouth in a matter of seconds.

 

This makes no sense IMO. If you can accept BS at some point, you should be willing to accept it at any other point. It's how high the bar is set for the series. And Synthesis is actually optional, unlike those other instances. 

 

I'm not sure where you got that percentage. Probably from the time before Extended Cut.

[DSiKn355]

 

 

1. I meant the Legion and EDI that were cooperating with organics. There would've been no Legion (the platform was made to contact Shepard after Sovereign attack) and no EDI (the rogue VI/AI from Luna was made what it is through Sovereign hardware) without Sovereign. 

 

2. Resources are not the only reason for conflict. There can be all kinds of conflicts. Social issues, geth plans, organic plans... 

 

3. For one, it needs to be for organics as well. Otherwise, Reaper guidance won't mean anything if organics attack synthetics out of fear or prejudice. Next, not all synthetics view the Reapers as gods. Even the geth were split about it. Heretics worshiped the Reapers, true geth did not.

 

4. Resurrecting "meat and tubes" to full operation. All while retaining all memories, experience. It is never explained in the universe, was never hinted at. Space magic at its finest. The Thorian was a huge plant that controlled minds through spores (which, funnily enough, didn't affect Shepard and his crew) and cloned green asari out of its ass/mouth in a matter of seconds.

 

This makes no sense IMO. If you can accept BS at some point, you should be willing to accept it at any other point. It's how high the bar is set for the series. And Synthesis is actually optional, unlike those other instances. 

 

I'm not sure where you got that percentage. Probably from the time before Extended Cut.

 

 

1. so its the "advancement" so i agree.

 

2. Yes resources are. Look at any war. The Geth planned to honor Legions arrangement so there would be no conflict from their collective decision.

 

3. Organics don't matter as its the Synthetics that are the treat of wiping out all organics so it is them that require the guidance. The conflict only came from the goals. The true Geth didn't believe in the extinction of Organics. But the true Geth did believe in following suit in creating their very own Reaper construct. So if the Reapers were there to Guide and not incite war or a belief then its more than likely there will be no conflict as it will be giving knowledge to help advancement not just handing out orders. big difference.

 

4. The cloned body parts could have been attached to the "meat and tubes." The brain was intact so why would memories not be there? The Thorian spores may take a certain time to take effect and the team already there had been there significantly longer than Shepards team right?

 

Wiki: "As ExoGeni watched, it took less than a month for 80% of Zhu's Hope's inhabitants to become infected and begin performing tasks for the Thorian."

 

And the clone out of it's ass:

 

Wiki: "However, Saren Arterius had learned of the Thorian's existence and its connection to the Protheans. He traveled to Feros in secret with a contingent of geth and a powerful asari biotic, Shiala. He went to the Thorian and negotiated a trade, offering Shiala as a sacrifice. Shiala melded with the Thorian; sharing the Thorian's consciousness gave Shiala the Cipher, which Shiala then transferred to Saren's mind."

 

"In response to Shepard's approach, the Thorian produced a clone of Shiala to speak for it. Through the clone, the Thorian, referring to itself as the 'Old Growth', commanded Shepard to be in awe, saying every step the squad took was a transgression."

 

So it seemed to make sense. Nothing actually sounded illogical or went against itself.

 

Not like Preserving Organics but in essence you are really killing them and not preserving any essence of any individual organic or any collective feature that makes them organic.

 

Wiki: "EDI suggests that the Collectors were 'facilitating Reaper reproduction' by constructing a new Reaper, and also estimated that the Collectors would have to gather millions of humans in order to complete it. EDI speculates that every Reaper is built to resemble the race used to create it, and that the Reapers had unsuccessfully attempted to construct a Reaper from Prothean raw material."

 

Transforming not preserving lol

[Vazgen]

1. Uhm, no. And the geth might not initiate the conflict. Or they might. There is no telling that. If the future the geth envision for themselves includes quarian destruction, Legion's promise will be thrown out of the airlock.

 

2. Conflict does not originate from synthetics most of the time. Look at quarians for example. Synthetics simply go farther than organics in a fight. And there is no telling what the true geth believed. Legion says "we let them go", Geth VI says "we couldn't pursue them too far". You base your solution on willingness of all created synthetics to follow Reaper guidance. I find it highly improbable.

 

3. Because brain cells die after certain time passes, regardless of a helmet. The helmet might keep a bunch of dead flesh intact, yes, but information in the brain will be lost. Also, cloning a totally different species multiple times in a matter of seconds does not sound logical at all. Oh, and my favorite - the Cipher. "Describing the Cipher is impossible; it would be like trying to explain colour to a creature without eyes." - fancy way of saying space magic

 

I'm tired of explaining this. Harvesting =/= killing. Experience, knowledge, skill, individual mind - all are preserved within the Reaper. It's a rule of MEU. Don't like it? Fine, but don't blame the ending for that.

[DSiKn355]

 

1. Uhm, no. And the geth might not initiate the conflict. Or they might. There is no telling that. If the future the geth envision for themselves includes quarian destruction, Legion's promise will be thrown out of the airlock.

 

2. Conflict does not originate from synthetics most of the time. Look at quarians for example. Synthetics simply go farther than organics in a fight. And there is no telling what the true geth believed. Legion says "we let them go", Geth VI says "we couldn't pursue them too far". You base your solution on willingness of all created synthetics to follow Reaper guidance. I find it highly improbable.

 

3. Because brain cells die after certain time passes, regardless of a helmet. The helmet might keep a bunch of dead flesh intact, yes, but information in the brain will be lost. Also, cloning a totally different species multiple times in a matter of seconds does not sound logical at all. Oh, and my favorite - the Cipher. "Describing the Cipher is impossible; it would be like trying to explain colour to a creature without eyes." - fancy way of saying space magic

 

I'm tired of explaining this. Harvesting =/= killing. Experience, knowledge, skill, individual mind - all are preserved within the Reaper. It's a rule of MEU. Don't like it? Fine, but don't blame the ending for that.

 

 

1. If Geth initiate any war that goes against what they agreed. Unfounded speculation as you have no supporting evidence in any way.

 

2. You clearly missed why the Organic Synthetic wars happen. It comes when the Synthetic want to reach that higher level but the Organics fear it. So IF the Reapers help guide them to the higher level the Synthetics will never need to conflict with the Organics about reaching it because it will be already done.

 

3. I KNOW a child who was drowned. Left with brain damage (dead brain cells/ deformed brain cells caused by oxygen deprivation) and over the course of 3 years became able to walk again, use his arms and legs and talk while also retaining his memories of before and after the incident. So for me if we use future tech then yes Project Lazarus is very possible. At least for me lol.

 

Here is another similar story: http://www.theguardi...lthandwellbeing

 

This was already debunked in ME2.

 

IF the human reaper had the Normandy crew's "Experience, knowledge, skill, individual mind" WTF are they doing attacking Shepard and other crew mates for?

 

The Ending is what says this is whats happening and it is the Reapers purpose so yes I blame the ending as no other game say this is what the Reapers are doing and for what purpose lol.

 

So no nothing organic is actually preserved. Only knowledge which is NOT organic.

 

It's been fun lol

[Linkenski]

I'd rank the games ME2 >.< ME1 >> ME3

Me too

[DSiKn355]

ME2 was the best hands down.

 

Especially for a Tali romance fan like myself lol.

 

The lack of interaction with Tali in ME3 was just heartbreaking.

 

At one point I was jealous of Garrus lol.

 

ME2 had better crew interactions all round whereas ME3 was so limited you might as well have just said goodbye to all of them the first time you met and be done with it lol.

[Vazgen]

1. If Geth initiate any war that goes against what they agreed. Unfounded speculation as you have no supporting evidence in any way.

 

2. You clearly missed why the Organic Synthetic wars happen. It comes when the Synthetic want to reach that higher level but the Organics fear it. So IF the Reapers help guide them to the higher level the Synthetics will never need to conflict with the Organics about reaching it because it will be already done.

 

3. I KNOW a child who was drowned. Left with brain damage (dead brain cells/ deformed brain cells caused by oxygen deprivation) and over the course of 3 years became able to walk again, use his arms and legs and talk while also retaining his memories of before and after the incident. So for me if we use future tech then yes Project Lazarus is very possible. At least for me lol.

 

Here is another similar story: http://www.theguardi...lthandwellbeing

 

This was already debunked in ME2.

 

IF the human reaper had the Normandy crew's "Experience, knowledge, skill, individual mind" WTF are they doing attacking Shepard and other crew mates for?

 

The Ending is what says this is whats happening and it is the Reapers purpose so yes I blame the ending as no other game say this is what the Reapers are doing and for what purpose lol.

 

So no nothing organic is actually preserved. Only knowledge which is NOT organic.

 

It's been fun lol

1. And you speculate that there will be peace based on one geth's word. Note that the geth lied once (or twice, if you did the consensus mission) before.

2. It's you who is missing it. Organics create synthetics to improve their existence. Synthetics evolve and at some point surpass the organics. Organics fear the change and attack. Result is conflict. Now you are suggesting the Reapers to guide synthetics along the path to surpass organics. How will that help? Or do you suggest them to keep synthetics from surpassing organics? Because that's imposing limitations and will result in conflict.

3. "No one who has met the criteria for brain death has ever survived," Senelick said. "No one." (Source) "Sir, Shepard is clinically brain dead." - Lazarus Project scientist.

 

Nothing "debunked" it lol

If they had the Normandy crew's "Experience, knowledge, skill, individual mind",  WTF are they doing attacking Shepard and other crew mates for?

They needed "Experience, knowledge, skill, individual mind" of Shepard and other crew mates? They seem quite willing to get Shepard into that goo.

 

Harvesting, organic minds - all is established in your favorite ME2. 

 

Nothing organic? So... DNA is synthetic? 

 

I don't know why I bother. 

[DSiKn355]

1. And you speculate that there will be peace based on one geth's word. Note that the geth lied once (or twice, if you did the consensus mission) before.

2. It's you who is missing it. Organics create synthetics to improve their existence. Synthetics evolve and at some point surpass the organics. Organics fear the change and attack. Result is conflict. Now you are suggesting the Reapers to guide synthetics along the path to surpass organics. How will that help? Or do you suggest them to keep synthetics from surpassing organics? Because that's imposing limitations and will result in conflict.

3. "No one who has met the criteria for brain death has ever survived," Senelick said. "No one." (Source) "Sir, Shepard is clinically brain dead." - Lazarus Project scientist.

 

Nothing "debunked" it lol

If they had the Normandy crew's "Experience, knowledge, skill, individual mind",  WTF are they doing attacking Shepard and other crew mates for?

They needed "Experience, knowledge, skill, individual mind" of Shepard and other crew mates? They seem quite willing to get Shepard into that goo.

 

Harvesting, organic minds - all is established in your favorite ME2. 

 

Nothing organic? So... DNA is synthetic? 

 

I don't know why I bother. 

 

Dna cannot be preserved like that because dna is as individual as a fingerprint so you cannot mix it together as you will be corrupting the dna not preserving it.

 

So learn what the word preservation means please lol.

 

And let me put what EDI said again and read it this time and let it sink in.

 

Wiki: "EDI suggests that the Collectors were 'facilitating Reaper reproduction' by constructing a new Reaper, and also estimated that the Collectors would have to gather millions of humans in order to complete it. EDI speculates that every Reaper is built to resemble the race used to create it, and that the Reapers had unsuccessfully attempted to construct a Reaper from Prothean raw material."

 

Note "constructed from raw material" not "raw material preserved inside metallic shell"

 

1. Actions proved it.

 

2.Nope didn't miss it. Geth didn't surpass the Quarians and the Quarians fought them because of it. That never happened. The Geth disobeyed the Quarians as they wanted to seek their own existence which some Quarians denied and started the war over. If a Reaper was to then say "Here synthetic come with me to this planet and discover your reason for existence" the synthetic is then gone and able to do what it seeks without a war breaking out lol.

 

3. Already proved it is possible.

 

The ending is flawed accept it lol.

[Vazgen]

Dna cannot be preserved like that because dna is as individual as a fingerprint so you cannot mix it together as you will be corrupting the dna not preserving it.

 

So learn what the word preservation means please lol.

 

And let me put what EDI said again and read it this time and let it sink in.

 

Wiki: "EDI suggests that the Collectors were 'facilitating Reaper reproduction' by constructing a new Reaper, and also estimated that the Collectors would have to gather millions of humans in order to complete it. EDI speculates that every Reaper is built to resemble the race used to create it, and that the Reapers had unsuccessfully attempted to construct a Reaper from Prothean raw material."

 

Note "constructed from raw material" not "raw material preserved inside metallic shell"

 

1. Actions proved it.

 

2.Nope didn't miss it. Geth didn't surpass the Quarians and the Quarians fought them because of it. That never happened. The Geth disobeyed the Quarians as they wanted to seek their own existence which some Quarians denied and started the war over. If a Reaper was to then say "Here synthetic come with me to this planet and discover your reason for existence" the synthetic is then gone and able to do what it seeks without a war breaking out lol.

 

3. Already proved it is possible.

 

The ending is flawed accept it lol.

Who said they are mixing it? You see a vat with goo and assume that it's simply filled there. Nothing ever indicates that it is the case. Now tell me, how do the organic minds stay intact if, as you say, DNA is contaminated?

 

1. What actions? Oh, you mean metagaming after seeing the ending. Good.

2. Yeah and organics who created synthetics to improve their lives will just roll with it. "Sure, go to another planet, discover reasons for your existence. We'll create new synthetics to do your jobs."

3. The case you described was probably different. Sorry, but I'll take neurologist Dr. Richard Senelick's word over yours in this particular matter.

 

It is not. Just deal with it lol. It's been three years. More than enough time to understand.

[DSiKn355]

Who said they are mixing it? You see a vat with goo and assume that it's simply filled there. Nothing ever indicates that it is the case. Now tell me, how do the organic minds stay intact if, as you say, DNA is contaminated?

 

1. What actions? Oh, you mean metagaming after seeing the ending. Good.

2. Yeah and organics who created synthetics to improve their lives will just roll with it. "Sure, go to another planet, discover reasons for your existence. We'll create new synthetics to do your jobs."

3. The case you described was probably different. Sorry, but I'll take neurologist Dr. Richard Senelick's word over yours in this particular matter.

 

It is not. Just deal with it lol. It's been three years. More than enough time to understand.

 

Then we will have to agree to disagree as there is no point going in circles lol

[Vazgen]

Then we will have to agree to disagree as there is no point going in circles lol

Glad you see it that way. I was about to suggest the same thing

[Barquiel]

Mass Effect 1 is still my favorite. There's a sense of exploration in Mass Effect 1 that isn't quite there in the sequels (the Mako was far from perfect of course). ME1 also did a great job at introducing this wonderful universe, it truly felt like a huge living universe populated by various races and cultures. ME2 and ME3 didn't really re-capture that magic, imo.

LotSB was my favorite mission in the series, but as a whole I didn't feel as invested in Mass Effect 2's story (solve your crew's personal problems because the main story about the Collectors was basically non-existent) as I did Mass Effect 1's. ME3 had some great moments and the first half of the game was excellent, but it's really from Thessia and onwards that the story begins to fall apart. And I know, the tone of the game had to be desperate/bleak, and it was well done imo...but I generally prefer Mass Effect as the fun space adventure (where I can romance blue alien ladies ) rather than a depressingly grim war story.

The character interaction on the other hand was something that steadily improved as the series progressed.