41 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimerdinger]

The Citadel relay not working was Sovereign's problem to fix. The Collectors are not controlled by Sovereign, when he failed Harbinger stepped in. Also the reapers don't seem to like when one of them messes up. The derelict reaper, the leviathan of Dis, they were disabled in combat but the reaper fleet never recovered or repaired them. Sovereign had to fix things by himself and use his own lackeys.

[The Gman707]

He probably saw the geth as a way to get the universe to weaken itself/ become distracted from the coming events. Sovereign was the advance party in effect so maybe he was trying to sow dissension without alerting the galaxy to a full scale invasion

[The Gman707]

He probably saw the geth as a way to get the universe to weaken itself/ become distracted from the coming events. Sovereign was the advance party in effect so maybe he was trying to sow dissension without alerting the galaxy to a full scale invasion

[Drone223]

Its simple Bioware didn't create them at the time ME1 was written.

[TheCatalystAI]

The collectors seem like they are more spec ops than full assault.If I remember correctly Miranda said they hardly leave the Omega 4 relay system they keep to themselves and they trade their tec for rare species with genetic abnormalities and other things.

Then in mass effect 2 when they do attack they go for the defenceless human planets.If i am correct the collectors only have one ship and the normandy was easily able to destroy it 1v1(not counting the oculus and provided you upgraded)
Sovereign most likely thought that his plan would succeede with the forces he gathered. (And he was right if it was not for Shepard's intervention the cycle would of been started and ended as planned.)

[Iakus]

The collectors seem like they are more spec ops than full assault.If I remember correctly Miranda said they hardly leave the Omega 4 relay system they keep to themselves and they trade their tec for rare species with genetic abnormalities and other things.

Then in mass effect 2 when they do attack they go for the defenceless human planets.If i am correct the collectors only have one ship and the normandy was easily able to destroy it 1v1(not counting the oculus and provided you upgraded)
Sovereign most likely thought that his plan would succeede with the forces he gathered. (And he was right if it was not for Shepard's intervention the cycle would of been started and ended as planned.)

Yeah, but the seeker swarms alone would have been a game changer.  Sovereign wouldn't have even needed Saren or the geth.  They could have locked down the entire Citadel.

[Fatiguesdualism]

Re: the Sweeker Swarms, is there any mention of them existing before ME2?  Could they perhaps be something that was developed to bolster the Collectors 'punch'

 

As for using the geth instead of re-purposed Protheans, well it's a win-win.  I mean if Sovereign brought the rest of the Reapers through well...goodbye and thanks for all the fish  where-as if he fails?  There's a cover story that creates the possibility of the organics going to war with the geth (whom, according to Casper  , are the real enemy).  Finally if Sovereign completely guffs it...well at least there's still the Collectors.  Although admittedly the Reapers never really came across as considering themselves fallible.  

[Iakus]

Re: the Sweeker Swarms, is there any mention of them existing before ME2?  Could they perhaps be something that was developed to bolster the Collectors 'punch'

 

As for using the geth instead of re-purposed Protheans, well it's a win-win.  I mean if Sovereign brought the rest of the Reapers through well...goodbye and thanks for all the fish  where-as if he fails?  There's a cover story that creates the possibility of the organics going to war with the geth (whom, according to Casper  , are the real enemy).  Finally if Sovereign completely guffs it...well at least there's still the Collectors.  Although admittedly the Reapers never really came across as considering themselves fallible.  

No there was no mention of seekers existing before ME2.  Or Collectors before Mass Effect: Ascension.  Which is the real reason  the Collectors weren't used, most likely.  

 

But if the COllectors were used, Shepard would almost certainly have failed, thanks to their seeker swarms.   by the end, I don't think Sovereign really cared about cover stories or contingencies.  Sovereign and the geth were all-in, death or glory time.

[caradoc2000]

Why didn't Sovereign use the Collectors over the Geth ?

Because Sovereign didn't purchase the Collectors Edition, he only had the Geth Edition which is fifteen bucks cheaper.

[MegaIllusiveMan]

Because the Main Reaper's plans was to attack the Citadel, and in the process, Sovereign used Saren and the Geth(That already considered the Reapers as god-like creatures) and Harbinger did the back up plan, that involved the Collectors and the abduction of Human Colonies, killing the person and destroying the ship responsible for stopping Sovereign: Shepard and the Normandy.

[JasperOnOriginN7]

I think that Sovereign was planing on having the collectors build the human reaper, then use the dark space relay, but the beacon made Sovereign start his plan sooner then expected.

 

PS: I have not played ME3 so there could be info in that game that disproves my idea

[Catalyst38]

You should see each reaper as their own nation independent from one another. Harbinger did the work to remake the prothians into the collectors, Sovereign had no claim to them. Sovereign also only went looking for the Geth when the signal failed to get the other reapers, it was out of convenience or maybe necessity. It was also Sovereigns job to open the path for the other reapers so I doubt Harbinger would be really willing to aid him in the task. Looking at them as separate nations, why would Harbinge waste his resources to help Sovereign complete his task that neither of them had any reason to think it would not easily succeed.

From what I saw in mass effect 3 the reapers knew the gravity of the situation and the threat that this cycle represented, because of this they where more united against the galaxy then before in M1 and 2. But from their isolated attacks and in my opinion unwillingness to send reinforcements or trying and reclaim lost ground, I'd say they never engaged in more than a partnership with one another and did not form a true alliance.

[SwobyJ]

Yes.

 

Each Reaper is still 'a person' in this respect. They still did their own thing, allowed to regardless of any other networking. They could still make their own decisions.

 

In the end of the trilogy canon, the Reapers will (unknowingly? their own form of indoctrination?) send their information to the Collective Intelligence, the Intelligence's smarts/knowledge/intelligence is made up of what all the Reapers send to it, it controls them back (creating a loop that maintains the logic of the Reaping Harvest Cycle). But that doesn't mean the Intelligence 100% controls what every Reaper does. They still have agency, allowed to otherwise be an entity that exists as a nation of its own.

 

Simply, Sovereign didn't take the Collectors because:

1)The Collectors were Harbingers', for his experimental use.

2)The Reapers, including Sovereign, were sure of success anyway, Collectors involved or not.

3)The Intelligence did not intervene, and it does not do that unless the experiment is threatened (which is never is until near the end of ME3).

4)The Collectors seemed designed more for special operations than full on assault, as previously mentioned in this thread. Even any harvesting of Earth would have likely come during the arrival of the other Reapers using the Alpha Relay or otherwise. All Shepard stopped was the creation of the Human Reaper and an even more efficient harvesting of Earth.

 

TLDR: They were Harbinger's, and of limited use, and Sovereign had his own job and responsibilities.

[Fixers0]

Because the collectors simply were not created by Drew and Mac at that stage of narrative development.

 

And they wonder why think the series has been poorly though out.

[lonelyloner]

Besides the reasons already said above, I think I could add one more:

 

Saren.

 

Saren is Sovereign's main agent, Sovvy's 'chosen champion', one could say.

Why? Because Saren is a well connected Spectre. 

With Saren's aid Sovereign could reach inner workings of Citadel.

Plus Saren had made himself into "The Geth's Prophet".

Not to forget Saren's own considerable intelligence, investigative ability, leadership and battle prowess.

 

Sovereign need Saren, as Sovvy's 'centerpiece'.

 

But Saren's aid also comes with some limiting problems.

 

Although indoctrinated, Saren's still strong willed and is able to resist indoctrination somewhat, evidenced by how you could sweet talk him into shooting himself at end scene. 

Despite indoctrination, Saren showed he could still wrest back his free will, and of course he could still betray Sovereign.

 

Saren willingly obeys Sovereign only because he still believes that if the organics prove themselves to Reapers, the organics would be spared. Well, of course this promise is utter BS, but Saren believes it, and believes his way is the only way he could protect life.

 

Even then he is distrustful and wary of Sovereign, thus his own research into indoctrination.

 

All it comes down to is that Saren has little solid reason to doubt that Sovereign would honor their agreement: that the organics would be spared this cycle if they prove themselves. : As long as he sees no evidence to the contrary.  

 

Now what would happen, if Saren sees Collectors? 

Saren would ask questions... and find out that Collectors are Protheans who were 'repurposed' by Reapers.

Saren may wonder then, if Sovereign's idea of 'sparing the organics' would be turning them into abominations like the Collectors?  Could Saren still buy that idea?  

 

Point is, introducing Saren to Collectors could result in several unpredictable outcomes... Not the best time for this for Sovereign, since he has to hurry and has to know that Saren is still a reliable ally, at least until the Reapers arrive in force.

 

By this time, like it or not, Saren's too important a tool to get rid of, not that easily at least, for Sovereign. Meanwhile, Saren's loyalty, although, strong, is not absolute. 

Sovereign need to keep Saren's faith, and that means NOT introducing him to Collectors.

Bringing Collectors into Sovereign's game could result in Saren's defection at a time where Sovereign need Saren the most. 

So.. yeah... Saren and the Geth would have to do.

[iM3GTR]

Because the writers hadn't thought up the idea yet.

Edit: He says, a year late and after several people said it already.

[UpUpAway]

1) Sovereign was left alone within the Milky Way to keep tabs on things and activate the Keepers while all the other Reapers waited in Dark Space (Harbinger and Collectors included).

 

2) This system had worked for the Reapers for countless cycles before, so they had no reason to believe that it would not work again.

 

3) Only after their usual tactic failed, the Reapers decide that using organics is unreliable and opt to try using a synthetic race instead (this is posited in ME1).  They recruit Saren, who then recruits the Geth.

 

4) However, Saren and the Geth also fail, so the Reaper go to Plan C.

 

5) Plan C involves using a new leader Reaper (Harbinger) and the Collectors... who then, during the two years that Shepard is out, develop the seeker swarms and start harvesting colonies.  (Note:  Cerberus doesn't specifically say that they are bringing Shepard back to fight the Collectors... initially they start bringing Shepard back so that humanity will follow them.)

 

6) The Collectors only came into being during/after the Prothean cycle (obvious since prior to that they were Prothean).  So, the most likely scenario is that the Collectors were only developing the seeker swarm technology during the time period when Shepard was unconscious.

 

7) After Plan C (the Collectors) and Plan D (Alpha Relay) also fails, the Reapers go to Plan E... total invasion and open war.